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Halo |OT4| Trust's a Tough Thing to Come by These Days

zap

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So uh, has anyone talked about how the live action thingy seems to contradict what we already know about how the Infinity gets to Requiem based on Primordium. Or who is in control. Or what he is looking for.
Why do you think it contradicts it? Infinity is commissioned, has ulterior motive, seeks out Requiem and (live action) gets 'sucked in'.

Seems to be accurate?

Edit: By sucked in I mean controlled by Didact and then crash lands on Requiem
 

Recarpo

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Yep.

Primordium suffers a lot of the same problems Cryptum had. First half-three quarters of the book is kinda slow and dull, but the ending makes up for it.
Interesting, I'll have to check it out. Any idea if there is going to be another forerunner book released before halo 4 launches?
 

blamite

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So uh, has anyone talked about how the live action thingy seems to contradict what we already know about how the Infinity gets to Requiem based on Primordium. Or who is in control. Or what he is looking for.
Referring to (Primordium spoilers)
Guilty Spark taking over the ship he was on at the end of Primordium? We don't know what ship that was, or when it took place. May not have been the Infinity, may not have been during the right time period.
 

Plywood

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Eat crow Tomb Raider Halo 4 haters

Also Sony dev's have a digital hard on for Ellen Page.
 

Hitmonchan107

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Man, I wish I could agree. I don't have any sort of well articulated critique, but I've tried to read Cryptum twice, and just couldn't trudge through it. I'll try again once I'm done with school, I guess.
I'll make this brief:

Nylund's writing style --
"The Spartans stood there a moment—undoubtedly communicating with one another through a mixture of externally silent COM channels and minute body language. She noticed the tick of a finger, the slight nod of a head. They then moved together, picked up their equipment, and walked through the threshold of the vault."

He makes keen observations, noting minute details of the scene. But for the most part, he rarely delves into the emotion and thought behind the detail. Why not a nervous tick of a finger or a leading nod of a head? Tell me why these details are important. Plus, his writing is sparse and dry.

Bear's style --
"Twenty kilometers away, the central peak of Djamonkin Crater rose through blue-gray haze, its tip outlined in ruddy gold by the last of the setting sun. A single brilliant moon rose bright and cold behind our boat. The crater’s inland lake rippled around the hull in ways no tide or wind had ever moved water. Under the swells and whorls, sparkling with reflected sunset and moon, pale merse twisted and bobbed like the lilies in my mother’s pond. These lilies, however, weren’t passive flowers, but sleeping krakens growing in the shallows on thick stalks. Ten meters wide, their thickened, muscular edges were rimmed with black teeth the length of my forearm."

His writing is dripping with meaningful detail. Not only does he observe, he says why it matters. The lake doesn't just ripple; it ripples in an unfamiliar fashion. His command of verbs -- twisted, bobbed, rimmed -- is top-notch. Reading his work is an absolute treat.
 

Bornstellar

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Why do you think it contradicts it? Infinity is commissioned, has ulterior motive, seeks out Requiem and (live action) gets 'sucked in'.

Seems to be accurate?
Primordium spoiler for those that don't remember:
The book ends with the Guilty Spark duplicate being ejected into space after powering down, but not before he injects his data stream into the ship's computer, subdues the shipboard AI and takes control of the ship. He then explains to the crew that he desires to resume his quest to find the Librarian and retrieve the old spirits of Riser and Vinnevra. Asserting that the Librarian is actually alive, he puts the crew to sleep and has the ship proceed to her location.
EDIT:
My assumption was that the ship was the Infinity, but I guess this is not specifically mentioned, so in that case we have a third element.

Also, I do hope that some of the characters from Glasslands are represented in the game.
 

senador

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Is Devo still banned? Wonder what her thoughts are...
She showed up in chat. Says she is worried, likes base naked Halo best, but also doesn't care much bout Halo right now. Something along those lines. She also had a naked Timedog next to her, so....

Man, I wish I could agree. I don't have any sort of well articulated critique, but I've tried to read Cryptum twice, and just couldn't trudge through it. I'll try again once I'm done with school, I guess.
How far'd you get? I like Cryptum after a certain point.
 

GhaleonEB

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I'll make this brief:

Nylund's writing style --
"The Spartans stood there a moment—undoubtedly communicating with one another through a mixture of externally silent COM channels and minute body language. She noticed the tick of a finger, the slight nod of a head. They then moved together, picked up their equipment, and walked through the threshold of the vault."

He makes keen observations, noting minute details of the scene. But for the most part, he rarely delves into the emotion and thought behind the detail. Why not a nervous tick of a finger or a leading nod of a head. Tell me why these details are important. Plus, his writing is sparse and dry.

Bear's style --
"Twenty kilometers away, the central peak of Djamonkin Crater rose through blue-gray haze, its tip outlined in ruddy gold by the last of the setting sun. A single brilliant moon rose bright and cold behind our boat. The crater’s inland lake rippled around the hull in ways no tide or wind had ever moved water. Under the swells and whorls, sparkling with reflected sunset and moon, pale merse twisted and bobbed like the lilies in my mother’s pond. These lilies, however, weren’t passive flowers, but sleeping krakens growing in the shallows on thick stalks. Ten meters wide, their thickened, muscular edges were rimmed with black teeth the length of my forearm."

His writing is dripping with meaningful detail. Not only does he observe, he says why it matters. The lake doesn't just ripple; it ripples in an unfamiliar fashion. His command of verbs -- twisted, bobbed, rimmed -- is top-notch. Reading his work is an absolute treat.
In Cryptum, the lead character has a couple of companions along with him for the duration of the book. One was large, and one was smaller, and that's all I can tell you about them. I know nothing of their character, their history, their motivations, or even what they did for most of the story. They were just sort of along for the ride.

Bear really didn't touch on character much, until the Didact shows up. He's wonderfully grouchy.
 

zap

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I'll make this brief:

Nylund's writing style --
"The Spartans stood there a moment—undoubtedly communicating with one another through a mixture of externally silent COM channels and minute body language. She noticed the tick of a finger, the slight nod of a head. They then moved together, picked up their equipment, and walked through the threshold of the vault."

He makes keen observations, noting minute details of the scene. But for the most part, he rarely delves into the emotion and thought behind the detail. Why not a nervous tick of a finger or a leading nod of a head? Tell me why these details are important. Plus, his writing is sparse and dry.

Bear's style --
"Twenty kilometers away, the central peak of Djamonkin Crater rose through blue-gray haze, its tip outlined in ruddy gold by the last of the setting sun. A single brilliant moon rose bright and cold behind our boat. The crater’s inland lake rippled around the hull in ways no tide or wind had ever moved water. Under the swells and whorls, sparkling with reflected sunset and moon, pale merse twisted and bobbed like the lilies in my mother’s pond. These lilies, however, weren’t passive flowers, but sleeping krakens growing in the shallows on thick stalks. Ten meters wide, their thickened, muscular edges were rimmed with black teeth the length of my forearm."

His writing is dripping with meaningful detail. Not only does he observe, he says why it matters. The lake doesn't just ripple; it ripples in an unfamiliar fashion. His command of verbs -- twisted, bobbed, rimmed -- is top-notch. Reading his work is an absolute treat.
OK, I can see that his writing may be superior, but dear lord do his books meander for the first (large) chunk of the book. It would enough to put most people off. Nothing meaningful seems to happen, then suddenly info dump at the end.
 

Hitmonchan107

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In Cryptum, the lead character has a couple of companions along with him for the duration of the book. One was large, and one was smaller, and that's all I can tell you about them. I know nothing of their character, their history, their motivations, or even what they did for most of the story. They were just sort of along for the ride.

Bear really didn't touch on character much, until the Didact shows up. He's wonderfully grouchy.
I agree that there are elements of writing that other Halo writers do better (like Traviss), but Bear has my favorite style.

OK, I can see that his writing may be superior, but dear lord do his books meander for the first (large) chunk of the book. It would enough to put most people off. Nothing meaningful seems to happen, then suddenly info dump at the end.
Maybe I was too absorbed in the novel to realize that the plot wasn't moving forward rapidly. I'll give the book another read soon.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
I'll make this brief:

Nylund's writing style --
"The Spartans stood there a moment—undoubtedly communicating with one another through a mixture of externally silent COM channels and minute body language. She noticed the tick of a finger, the slight nod of a head. They then moved together, picked up their equipment, and walked through the threshold of the vault."

He makes keen observations, noting minute details of the scene. But for the most part, he rarely delves into the emotion and thought behind the detail. Why not a nervous tick of a finger or a leading nod of a head? Tell me why these details are important. Plus, his writing is sparse and dry.

Bear's style --
"Twenty kilometers away, the central peak of Djamonkin Crater rose through blue-gray haze, its tip outlined in ruddy gold by the last of the setting sun. A single brilliant moon rose bright and cold behind our boat. The crater’s inland lake rippled around the hull in ways no tide or wind had ever moved water. Under the swells and whorls, sparkling with reflected sunset and moon, pale merse twisted and bobbed like the lilies in my mother’s pond. These lilies, however, weren’t passive flowers, but sleeping krakens growing in the shallows on thick stalks. Ten meters wide, their thickened, muscular edges were rimmed with black teeth the length of my forearm."

His writing is dripping with meaningful detail. Not only does he observe, he says why it matters. The lake doesn't just ripple; it ripples in an unfamiliar fashion. His command of verbs -- twisted, bobbed, rimmed -- is top-notch. Reading his work is an absolute treat.
No joke, I almost instantly glazed over when reading that Bear excerpt. I tend to shut off when reading his more flowery prose -- it feels unnecessary to me. Rather than painting a picture, it bores me, and next thing I know I've read a paragraph without even paying attention. I'm thinking of my favorite writers, and none of them are especially heavy on longwinded picture painting like Bear is. But I'm not against it as a rule. I don't it's a matter of short attention span on my part. It really is just how Bear describes things. I wish I could articulate myself better on this.

I like Nylund's short/choppy, action-focused writing. He's no master wordsmith, but he keeps me interested.

How far'd you get? I like Cryptum after a certain point.
3/4s through the first time, and about 50 pages through the second.
 

User 73706

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Primordium spoiler for those that don't remember:


EDIT:
My assumption was that the ship was the Infinity, but I guess this is not specifically mentioned, so in that case we have a third element.

Also, I do hope that some of the characters from Glasslands are represented in the game.
Maybe the ship in question is the Spirit of Fire. It'd give the crew
a reasonable chance to survive given Spark II's knowledge of slipspace travel
and possibly explain some of the crazy large vehicles we've seen so far; the big humvee-looking thing seems like a combination between the Elephant and some giant Halo Wars transport. Hell, even the shot of the hog driving out of the front of it was giving me Halo Wars vibes.

Also, am I crazy or is there some kind of vanquish-style boost slide in the game?

-vroom vroom-

Awesome if so.
I'm guessing that's the Jump Pack that gives you some horizontal movement. If it also works in the air, it's going to have some awesome mindgame abilities and I'll probably stick to it. Also makes sense that it's almost entirely horizontal movement but keeps you still (as in, there's no dodging/ducking/etc animation) to sort of balance out Evade's old problems, while still giving Jetpack a place to co-exist (since it's almost entirely vertical movement).
 

GhaleonEB

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Thrust pack.
I agree that there are elements of writing that other Halo writers do better (like Traviss), but Bear has my favorite style.
I talking about basic nuts and bolts stuff, like defining characters and making them seem real, or at least interesting. There are major characters in Cryptum that have no character, which for me is a problem. Without anyone to anchor to, it's just these nondescript objects moving through a fuzzy narrative with strong prose.
 

Havok

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No joke, I almost instantly glazed over when reading that Bear excerpt. I tend to shut off when reading his more flowery prose -- it feels unnecessary to me. Rather than painting a picture, it bores me, and next thing I know I've read a paragraph without even paying attention. I'm thinking of my favorite writers, and none of them are especially heavy on longwinded picture painting like Bear is. But I'm not against it as a rule. I don't it's a matter of short attention span on my part. It really is just how Bear describes things. I wish I could articulate myself better on this.

I like Nylund's short/choppy, action-focused writing. He's no master wordsmith, but he keeps me interested.
I definitely agree with this in a lot of ways. I like the universe that Bear builds, but the events of importance get lost so easily in how he crafts his descriptions. At this point, I barely remember what happened in Primordium, but I could rattle off the plots of most of the other books without issue. Part of that is probably just how alien the worlds are that he's describing, but I think it's also the style.
 

Retro

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Also, am I crazy or is there some kind of vanquish-style boost slide in the game?
Maybe that's the "Thruster Pack"? When used on the ground, it gives you a quick boost in the direction you're moving, while air-borne allows for a little lift and directional thrust?
 

blamite

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Steelyuhas

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Maybe that's the "Thruster Pack"? When used on the ground, it gives you a quick boost in the direction you're moving, while air-borne allows for a little lift and directional thrust?
Our initial leaker said that the Thruster Pack and Jet Pack are seperate AA's, and that both are in the game. Thruster Pack being a directional boost and Jet Pack being, well, a Jet Pack.
 

User 73706

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Our initial leaker said that the Thruster Pack and Jet Pack are seperate AA's, and that both are in the game. Thruster Pack being a directional boost and Jet Pack being, well, a Jet Pack.
I'm in love with the idea of the Thruster Pack. Just imagine tackling a guy head-on using it to bump them off the edge of a map, or on the opposite end, using it for some insane recoveries. You know all those times you tried assassinating someone, catching up to a vehicle, or skyjacking a Banshee either sprinting or jetpacking but didn't have the means to catch up horizontally? Problem solved. I think the only real question about it I have now if it's a full 360 degrees of range like Evade, or if it can only propel you forward wherever you're looking.
 

senador

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Our initial leaker said that the Thruster Pack and Jet Pack are seperate AA's, and that both are in the game. Thruster Pack being a directional boost and Jet Pack being, well, a Jet Pack.
It definitely seems to be true as well. Looks like a jet packer coming back down from the sky in the Spartan Ops video. Blurg! I sure hope its not just like the Reach one. Was really hoping Thruster Pack was Jet Pack and that it gave you small boosts to gain some altitude but not a spaceship to the moon.
 

Fracas

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So just to be absolutely certain, 2:00 PM Central Time is the Halo 4 multiplayer blowout, right? Can someone link me to streams, or is it going to be televised? Just making sure everything's in order for tomorrow.
 

Steelyuhas

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It definitely seems to be true as well. Looks like a jet packer coming back down from the sky in the Spartan Ops video. Blurg! I sure hope its not just like the Reach one. Was really hoping Thruster Pack was Jet Pack and that it gave you small boosts to gain some altitude but not a spaceship to the moon.
Yeah I was hoping it was as well.
 

PNut

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Everything I saw today was awesome! Graphics look amazing, weapons look fun to use, Forerunner weapons and enemies are cool, and the sound effects were top notch. Great job 343!

Now to top it off I'd love to see some competitive multi-player Halo 4 action that's going to keep me sucked in for a couple years. So far I keep hearing "War-games" is the competitive side of Halo 4. Are there numbered ranks? Is it going to be like Reach competitive MP? Reach Arena? What?

Because if it's anything like Reach with Spartan points race to the highest rank dress up my Spartan it's pointless and Living Dead will continue to be the most populated playlist in Halo "competitive".

Make Halo fun to play again competitively. I hope to see people raging because they can't get a 35 because they where "cheated", super-nerds selling 50's, MLG teams actually playing the MLG playlist and not going -75 and still winning. You know, real Halo.
 

User 73706

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Yeah, I think that's part of it for me, too.
It'd be interesting to see some games based on the Greg Bear trilogy that took a departure from the standard FPS that we're used to. Give it the "he oversees the pridelands, finds food for his family, and watches the gods build their machines" vibe that the one Halo 3 comic had. Have Bornstellar go through his ventures, make it a journey based on vistas and atmosphere rather than combat, and leave most of the real war aspect for cutscenes and backstory, while still making the aspects of war as brain-meltingly dangerous as they were in the novels, and have them impact the story likewise.
 

Trey

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OK, I can see that his writing may be superior, but dear lord do his books meander for the first (large) chunk of the book. It would enough to put most people off. Nothing meaningful seems to happen, then suddenly info dump at the end.
Then suddenly info dump describes Primordium extremely well. Cryptum was much better to me, though. It was like a tour ride through the Forerunner universe. So much about them was exposed and fleshed out. I was interested the entire time. Plus Didact Prime was boss.
 

ViewtifulJC

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So, from what I can tell. Gears of War: Judgment is basically Gears of War 3: ODST?
Yeah, looks like it. Use the previous game's engine, bit more open-ended with the campaign gameplay, new multiplayer gametype, probably uses the previous game's playlists/matchmkaing.

Suits me just fine. Whatever Gears of War 4/Zero is, it's probably gonna be a big showcase for Unreal Engine 4, and that won't come out until...well, whenever the 720 is out.
 

GhaleonEB

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I miss being able to render films to share them.

The other day I was jumping down from a platform on Corvette and in mid air no-scoped a plasma grenade with my sniper rifle, right out of the hand of a Brute winding up to throw it.

I survived a crazy intense wave of Heretic Heavies on Corvette all on my lonesome, with the final shootout climaxing in my rocket scooting the last Elite right past me, so I turn and assassinate him as the next wave starts. It was badass.

Tonight my co-op buddy was playing on Courtyard and took shelter from a wave of Heretic Snipers way back on the dead end overlooking the right side courtyard. Which worked well until the Elite Ultras landed and rushed him along with four Heretics. I did what I could from afar, but hot damn that was a desperate, inevitable, violent and hilarious end.

Wish I could show you.


############


Halo 4 looks good, 343. I'll preorder the LE on Wednesday. Great job so far at the show, can't wait to see more.

Ordinance Drop progression. I noticed earlier that when you get kills, the circle slowly fills in.
And I think that's the ordnance icon from Reach.
 

Falagard

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I hope someone answers the following tomorrow (or have they been answered by recent Beta leaks?)

- Are vehicles like Reach, where the are not tied to your health and can blow up at any time, or like Halo ODST/Halo 3/Halo 2 where they are tied to the driver's health?

- How does melee work against someone with any shields left?

- Is Jetpack as retarded as it was in Reach, or has it been toned down?

- Is BR 4 shot kill? Is DMR 5 shot kill?

- How do ranks work?

I have a million other questions that won't get answered, but that's enough for now.
 

Steelyuhas

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Everything I saw today was awesome! Graphics look amazing, weapons look fun to use, Forerunner weapons and enemies are cool, and the sound effects were top notch. Great job 343!

Now to top it off I'd love to see some competitive multi-player Halo 4 action that's going to keep me sucked in for a couple years. So far I keep hearing "War-games" is the competitive side of Halo 4. Are there numbered ranks? Is it going to be like Reach competitive MP? Reach Arena? What?

Because if it's anything like Reach with Spartan points race to the highest rank dress up my Spartan it's pointless and Living Dead will continue to be the most populated playlist in Halo "competitive".

Make Halo fun to play again competitively. I hope to see people raging because they can't get a 35 because they where "cheated", super-nerds selling 50's, MLG teams actually playing the MLG playlist and not going -75 and still winning. You know, real Halo.
We should see plenty of "War Games" (competitive multi) tomorrow and the rest of E3. As for ranking systems, they haven't officially announced anything on that front, nor will they at E3 I assume. Frankie did address it a bit in this thread a few weeks ago and said they are looking at some ranked systems, but that you definitely wouldn't see a straight 1-50 from Halo 3.

I hope someone answers the following tomorrow (or have they been answered by recent Beta leaks?)

- Are vehicles like Reach, where the are not tied to your health and can blow up at any time, or like Halo ODST/Halo 3/Halo 2 where they are tied to the driver's health?

- How does melee work against someone with any shields left?

- Is Jetpack as retarded as it was in Reach, or has it been toned down?

- Is BR 4 shot kill? Is DMR 5 shot kill?

- How do ranks work?

I have a million other questions that won't get answered, but that's enough for now.
None of those things are known. Being that the BR has 12 bursts per magazine and the DMR has 15 bullets per magazine though, I would assume that they are 4 and 5 shot kills, respectively.
 

GhaleonEB

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I hope someone answers the following tomorrow (or have they been answered by recent Beta leaks?)

- Are vehicles like Reach, where the are not tied to your health and can blow up at any time, or like Halo ODST/Halo 3/Halo 2 where they are tied to the driver's health?

- How does melee work against someone with any shields left?

- Is Jetpack as retarded as it was in Reach, or has it been toned down?

- Is BR 4 shot kill? Is DMR 5 shot kill?

- How do ranks work?

I have a million other questions that won't get answered, but that's enough for now.
In addition:

Covenant drop plasma grenades. When we kill Forerunner enemies, what kind of grenades do they drop? We've see builds where the HUD has three grenade slots.

I think the question about the vehicle health is the single most important one for me to get comfortable with BTB in Halo 4. If they fixed that, I will have confidence. If not, hope will wither.
 

Falagard

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In addition:

Covenant drop plasma grenades. When we kill Forerunner enemies, what kind of grenades do they drop? We've see builds where the HUD has three grenade slots.

I think the question about the vehicle health is the single more important one for me to get comfortable with BTB in Halo 4. If they fixed that, I will have confidence. If not, hope will wither.
Me too actually, which is why it tops the list.
 

User 73706

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In addition:

Covenant drop plasma grenades. When we kill Forerunner enemies, what kind of grenades do they drop? We've see builds where the HUD has three grenade slots.

I think the question about the vehicle health is the single more important one for me to get comfortable with BTB in Halo 4. If they fixed that, I will have confidence. If not, hope will wither.
I have a feeling forerunner grenades are going to be the Firebombs of Halo 4, where they don't show up until mid/late in game but are way more powerful. At the least I hope they bypass the "grenade deflector" effect Watchers do so we can finally wreck their shit using grenades.
 

RebornYeti

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After seeing the Scattershot in action in the MP B-roll footage, I got an idea of what kind of grenades I would like the Forerunners to have. I would like them to be a type of shrapnel grenade that blow up and release many pieces of shrapnel that can bounce and ricochet off of walls, ceilings and floors.
 

Steelyuhas

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In addition:

Covenant drop plasma grenades. When we kill Forerunner enemies, what kind of grenades do they drop? We've see builds where the HUD has three grenade slots.

I think the question about the vehicle health is the single more important one for me to get comfortable with BTB in Halo 4. If they fixed that, I will have confidence. If not, hope will wither.
That's true.

This is totally jumping the gun, but one of my main concerns with BTB and being able to enjoy it is how it's set up in matchmaking. 343 has changed what Jeremiah did with the BTB playlist and has gone with pretty much all Slayer, which completely ruins the playlist for me.