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Halo |OT4| Trust's a Tough Thing to Come by These Days

Woorloog

Banned
Apr 18, 2010
19,089
0
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the left trigger actually pops back out into its default position against the force of your finger
Now that's force feedback.

EDIT this would be an interesting controller desing... and a ticking timebomb, it would be only a matter of time before someone sues the desinger "because the controller broke his finger" or something like that.

people don't typically go for the headshot in CoD. You generally just aim at the torso and put a couple bullets in, and if you happen to hit them in the head, then great
vv I do try headshots in COD. It's that i'm used to do that in Halo. Useful.
 

thezerofire

Banned
Nov 8, 2010
8,868
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No, without flinch, it would be who could get the headshot. You know, just like Halo.
people don't typically go for the headshot in CoD. You generally just aim at the torso and put a couple bullets in, and if you happen to hit them in the head, then great
 

BigShow36

Member
May 11, 2010
2,003
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Connection and quick kill times may typically decide that, but there are those who handle the flinch better than others and win gun fights because of it... it can be a layer of skill. If the flinch wasn't there it would ALWAYS be who hits who first... with flinch, it's who can control the flinch better.

With flinch I have an opportunity to outwork the other guy with skill. Without, I'd be dead...
Flinch does the opposite; it makes it nearly impossible to outshoot someone one you're getting shot.
 

789shadow

Banned
Sep 30, 2009
17,113
0
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I should also add that being knocked out of zoom is also half the reason that BTB maps are broken by the DMR. The DMR is able to hit with excellent accuracy from large differences. If you suddenly start getting hit with a DMR in the middle of a HUGE BTB map, the only option is to get behind cover. If there is no cover nearby, you are dead because it is impossible to locate the shooter and fire back because you will never be able to zoom in on him long enough to line up a shot.
 

Overdoziz

Banned
Nov 8, 2011
14,939
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I understand.
I also understand a certain level of cynicism though, post Reach and post 343's matchmaking decisions. People are burned and this isn't what they want to see right now.

It's about message control to me. I don't think 343 has been good about controlling and forming multiplayer information in a way that's conducive to people's mindset (like thrusters and jetpacks being in Halo 4, why not have a podcast/video talking through why this is and why it won't be like Reach, why it is a good thing etc, sell people on it. Same for things like instant respawns etc). Whether they should have to is arguable, but I think that a lot of that reaction you're complaining about was predictable.
What I would do for a MP vidoc. Really frustrating to see all these changes and not knowing their reasoning behind them.
 

Vire

DancingJesus
Aug 16, 2009
26,213
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Flinch in CoD is horrible for the same reason being knocked out of scope in Halo is awful besides it being a necessary balancing mechanism for the Sniper Rifle. In CoD, the entire game is determined by who hits who first, and if you get hit first, you can't hit shit. You can have the "Focus" perk, but I shouldn't have to have it. In Reach, it finally came to a head with the DMR. If you were being shot by a DMR from across the map, you had only two options: try to get behind cover, or die. It was almost impossible to shoot back because the DMR is useless at that range out of scope, and the rate of fire meant that even rapidly clicking the thumbstick wasn't enough, you'd just immediately be knocked back out.

So, I'm glad you are no longer knocked out of zoom by being shot. However, it had better still be present on the Sniper Rifle, or at least some other balancing measure be added.
I like you.
 

789shadow

Banned
Sep 30, 2009
17,113
0
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people don't typically go for the headshot in CoD. You generally just aim at the torso and put a couple bullets in, and if you happen to hit them in the head, then great
People don't go for the headshot because flinch makes it more expedient to go for the larger target, the torso. If flinch was removed, more people would go for headshots because they kill instantly.

In fact, never mind. Flinch is a good thing in CoD. Without it, it would just be a game of dying immediately from instant kill headshots. However, in Halo, where headshots are not one hit kill, knocking people out of zoom, ESPECIALLY when the DMR is involved, is horrible and annoying.
 

BigShow36

Member
May 11, 2010
2,003
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It only does that if you can't control it... hence the layer of skill.
You can't control flinch. You can attempt to re-adjust your aim if the other player misses, but if you're playing against a good player, flinch is a bad thing.
 

Woorloog

Banned
Apr 18, 2010
19,089
0
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You're only knocked out of scope when you get shot in the head. I just saved Halo.
That would be an interesting compromise. And logical (well, somewhat) too.

Still dreadful when getting pinged in the head from an across the map DMR.
True but harder to pull off.
Which reminds me, i hope the head hitbox is a bit smaller in Halo 4 than previously, make those headshots a tad harder.
 

thezerofire

Banned
Nov 8, 2010
8,868
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People don't go for the headshot because flinch makes it more expedient to go for the larger target, the torso. If flinch was removed, more people would go for headshots because they kill instantly.

In fact, never mind. Flinch is a good thing in CoD. Without it, it would just be a game of dying immediately from instant kill headshots. However, in Halo, where headshots are not one hit kill, knocking people out of zoom, ESPECIALLY when the DMR is involved, is horrible and annoying.
no, people don't go for the headshot because you kill in a couple bullets anyway, so it doesn't make sense to aim for a smaller target. It doesn't have anything to do with flinch, it doesn't even matter if the person is shooting at you, or even facing you at all


I'm pretty sure MLG thing on Friday will be a lot better than a vidoc.
It will be nice, but I'd still like something detailing all of the changes and why they were made and what they mean for multiplayer from the developers
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Jun 7, 2004
77,909
2
1,490
Oregon
IIRC, David said we'd get a Sparkcast on Friday, with some if recorded at E3.

I'm surprised there's no vidoc/BTS video talking about the changes, but hopefully that will help.
 

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
Mar 6, 2007
13,310
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Northern Ireland
www.forwarduntodawn.com
I'm pretty sure MLG thing on Friday will be a lot better than a vidoc.
As much as I want to see HD full matches from actual good players (I really do!), I really want to hear what the devs have to say regarding why they made some of the changes and thoughts behind introducing some of the newer elements.

Behinds the scenes and developer commentary on their work is always priceless.

Come November we'll seeing pro Halo 4 games every other day, hearing 343 talk about making the game - not so much.
 

789shadow

Banned
Sep 30, 2009
17,113
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no, people don't go for the headshot because you kill in a couple bullets anyway, so it doesn't make sense to aim for a smaller target. It doesn't have anything to do with flinch, it doesn't even matter if the person is shooting at you, or even facing you at all
Um, I just said that people go for the torso because it only takes a few bullets. However, if there was no flinch, people with ACTUAL SKILL would make it moot because they would strike you down with a headshot. Soon, people would realize that they, too, need to aim for the head.
 

Risen

Member
Apr 12, 2010
1,807
0
0
You can't control flinch. You can attempt to re-adjust your aim if the other player misses, but if you're playing against a good player, flinch is a bad thing.
At the risk of sounding arrogant... I control it and outwork people all the time, and I've done it against top page GB teams. Not only is it controllable, you can also lessen it's net effect by adjusting where you start you aim during the interaction.

If that good player doesn't suffer flinch when I hit him, he kills me, if he suffers flinch and I control it better than he does... I kill him - and it's skill that did it.

On one level, you might as well be arguing FOR not being knocked out of scope in Halo.


However, if there was no flinch, people with ACTUAL SKILL would make it moot because they would strike you down with a headshot. Soon, people would realize that they, too, need to aim for the head.
lol your statement makes more sense if talking about recoil
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
If going unscoped when shot has really been removed, I think I'm done. All these changes -- small and large alike -- are piling up into a game that sounds like something I don't want to play.

Hope I'm proven wrong, either now or when I get some time with the game.
 

BigShow36

Member
May 11, 2010
2,003
0
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At the risk of sounding arrogant... I control it and outwork people all the time, and I've done it against top page GB teams. Not only is it controllable, you can also lessen it's net effect by adjusting where you start you aim during the interaction.
So do I, but I also get killed because of flinch more than "outwork" anyone. Also, its very likely that your random flinch simply worked out better than theirs did for any given encounter.
 

The Librarian

Banned
Apr 22, 2008
44,148
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the demo is a tight, constrained and dense set of encounters to introduce new elements - in the shipping game those events will have more air. Encounters will often be as big, sometimes bigger than traditional Halo areas. Lots of exploration and biiiig spaces for vehicles - also true for Spartan Ops.
I asked something like that along those lines earlier. Glad to hear it!

Watching the IGN videos now.
 

Ryaaan14

Banned
Jan 25, 2010
14,733
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Chicago, IL
www.neogaf.com
Might as well follow with my predictions:

-New trailer shown, or perhaps a ViDoc style clip
-Three to five minutes of campaign gameplay shown of a random mission, likely not the first mission.
-Run down of Master Chief's new abilities. Sprint, boost-jump, and perhaps something we haven't seen.
-Glimpse of new minor enemy during gameplay, focusing on upgraded AI and new attacks.
-Explaination of upgraded engine, able to generate more detailed textures, lighting, AA, etc.
-Tease of a major enemy at the very end of the playthrough.
-Brief glimpse into multiplayer, explaining the Infinity and new player features (loadouts, abilities, weapon and armor customization)

Then of course the Spike exclusive coverage of Spartan Ops on the separate special. Will receive little to no time during Microsoft's conference.
USA Today said:
The game's introductory cinematic scenes and first level will be previewed publicly for the first time today here at the Electronic Entertainment Expo game convention. At the end of Halo 3, conquering hero Master Chief goes into cryogenic sleep. He is awakened by his artificial-intelligence sidekick Cortana to face "a new threat in the universe," says executive producer Kiki Wolfkill, a former art director at Microsoft Games Studios who worked with Bungie on Halo 3.
Wow so they're showing the first level. I was all kinds of wrong in my predictions.
Fuck right off, USA Today. FUCK RIGHT OFF.
 

789shadow

Banned
Sep 30, 2009
17,113
0
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If going unscoped when shot has really been removed, I think I'm done. All these changes -- small and large alike -- are piling up into a game that sounds like something I don't want to play.

Hope I'm proven wrong, either now or when I get some time with the game.
Oh, I guess you like having kills determined by who shoots who first.
 

thezerofire

Banned
Nov 8, 2010
8,868
0
0
Um, I just said that people go for the torso because it only takes a few bullets. However, if there was no flinch, people with ACTUAL SKILL would make it moot because they would strike you down with a headshot. Soon, people would realize that they, too, need to aim for the head.
this really doesn't make sense if you have knowledge of cod gameplay. If you start getting shot, you're not going to just turn around and headshot someone. You're already dead by the time you notice. Removing flinch doesn't change that. In fact, flinch helps enable it. Like Risen said, this makes more sense if you're talking about recoil, but still not that much more sense. People wouldn't just start aiming for the head more, it just doesn't pay out for the amount of effort it takes
 

Risen

Member
Apr 12, 2010
1,807
0
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That cod flinch has given me some damn easy headshots and vice versa. Flinch has no place in a game like halo where putting multiple shots into eachother is the normal flow of a battle.
Didn't say it did belong in Halo - but on one level arguing against flinch is like arguing against being knocked out of scope when shot in Halo.
 

CyReN

Member
Jul 29, 2010
10,774
0
690
Is it just going to be video content that they shot or is there going to be some actual live stuff?
I have no idea what it will be, I REALLY HOPE its a full gameplay with just casters commentating over with, with a interview from the guys at 343i. I hope it just isn't a montage of E3 clips and showing the backs of pros.