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Halo |OT7| You may leave, Juices. And take Team Downer with you.
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
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User 73706
Banned
THE HUMAN-COVENANT WAR IS FINALLY OVER, HEE-HEE
:lol
I was actually going to make a similar edit, but with Chief smearing ice cream all over his visor.
About as much as grenade jumps do. As in, they don't. Prisoner example is terrible because Prisoner is a terrible map even without jetpacks, as me and Devo's adventures in Anniversary Classic have proven.
lol
Look at that massive Anniversary Classic and Halo PC population. Wait, no. Games have to modernize as time goes on. I think Perfect Dark is still the #1 FPS in all of creation, but the online was 100% dead after two weeks online, even though it was 1:1 with the original game (including the ability to still pull off an instant reload, makes the backpack CE reload look like child's play). Perfect Dark Zero, while still considered the product of Satan and Samsung's unholy marriage, still has a solid online population in it. Guess which one was more modernized.
And before you say "Anniversary Classic isn't 1:1", 1:1 CE Xbox online is pretty much never coming. Halo 1 LAN used lockstep networking, so it'd be like playing Anniversary co-op online off-host or ODST Firefight, with input lag and the inability to have more than 4 unique boxes in any game. PC had to make changes to the maps and had differing lead amounts depending on how laggy your game was, so not even the base mechanics of shooting are consistent. Nobody would tolerate that today, and let's not even start with the map and button glitches that every old timer would rush to use on the fresh meat within the first week, driving them all away. If people actually wanted to play Halo 1 and 2, both games are available online right now on the PC.
Same thing would happen to Halo 2 as well. People want it to come back as straight up Halo 2, and nobody really wants to admit that Halo 2 mostly held out because it a) had basically no notable competition and b) had the best interface for OXbox games on LIVE. Same with Halo 1, the first week of a Halo 2 Online would be everyone having a massive race to see how many newbies they could shit on with button combos and map escapes, if Halo 2 had actual competitors in it's online space it would have suffered the same fate as Brink. People don't tolerate that level of bugginess anymore.
You view AAs as gimmicks but they are an evolution. Equipment in Halo 3 was a new concept of the OS/Camo from Halo 1 and 2, equipment you could choose to use/deploy when you wanted to. Bungie noticed in the telemetry that people would collect equipment and tend to not use it because they didn't want to "waste" it. So they evolved the equipment into forms that could be re-used and the player wouldn't have anxiety over using them. They didn't hit all the marks (drop shield) but it was a solid evolution.
343 is evolving that further with extending player uniqueness with the global loadout system. Now, I'm still not pretty much liking the overall design of 4, but it has nothing to do with that system, my concern is over the weapon balance and sandbox, which has nothing to do with AAs and spec unlocks. And while I love deep appearance customization (Reach is miles and miles ahead of Halo 3 in that space), I don't like Gears 3-style and amount of retailer-specific skins.
I just don't understand the constant Halo 1 CE multiplayer worship when the game and weapon sandbox was campaign first and multiplayer got leftovers of that work.
Can you imagine jetpack on Narrows, Construct, or Guardian. Or Lockout. Shudder.
You know one thing that doesn't get much conversation is how the jetpack decimated and ruined most of the "jumping" community. Not many tinkerers exploring maps, slide bouncing, grenade jumping, and generally pushing a map and game physics to the limits when you can strap on a jetpack and just fly up there.
To be fair the Reach version of Anniversary Classic doesn't play like any other Halo game at all. The players ice skate around, the grenades are super powerful and you only spawn with 1, and due to the increased gravity and tweaked physics you can't make 1/4 of the tactical routes that were staples of the game. Not to mention you can't toss a grenade across a map and bounce the Sniper to your feet.
Hypertrooper
Member
So you are saying that those people were no Halo-fans, just because they asked a question which you do not care about? Yeah. Many question were stupid. But I cannot blame 343i for it. "Actual fans of the series" were in the audience and had the opportunity to ask questions too.
Wait... what?
The Halo 4 rocket launcher has considerably less splash damage (and overall damage, maybe) than the Reach version.
The Halo 3 sniper rifle is considerably harder to use than the Halo 2 version (or the original version).
There is NO Halo shotgun that stands up to the first game's beast.
Where are you getting this information that power weapons are buffed in each successive game?
And the majority of people I've talked to (more than 80 people, I'll tell you that) are more excited about Halo 4 now than they were when it was announced. How is my anecdotal information any more useful than yours?
The Librarian
Banned
I do wish 343 was better at clarifying the information they release. I absolutely loved the way Bungie doled out information. It could be just me, I'm willing to admit that, but more so leading up to the release of Halo 4 than any other Halo game, I have felt like I've been in a room putting pieces of a puzzle together from small piles I'm given periodically.
Edit: Don't give me pieces of the picture; give me parts.
Edit: Don't give me pieces of the picture; give me parts.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
We're still 3+ months out. You'll see the marketing blow-out when we get closer. Game Fuel anyone?
It just feels like at this point in the run up to Halo 3 we had the Believe commercials and other stuff.
They didn't have enough time for everyone's questions. My point is if there must be Q&A's then have Q&A's with people who enjoy different aspects of the game.
Have a Pro ask 5 questions, a campaign/lore lover ask their 5, grifball/minigames, forge, etc. If 343 is about the community why not ask those who are well known amongst their communities to ask the good questions? Wouldn't that be a good way to keep the community interested? Wouldn't it be better than the scraping and gathering of info?
I also don't think the alternate of having a forum topic to pool questions from for a bulletin is a good idea either.
edit:
I'll also admit that I've not seen more than 2 minutes of the Forge RTX reveal because it wasn't direct feed footage and I'm not gonna watch the Rooster Teeth guys goof off for an hour so that I can "check it out". Basically to echo Ghaleon's earlier sentiment BTS'/ViDoc's would be great right about now.
The Librarian
Banned
Probably because Halo 3 was releasing in September.
In terms of marketing:
Halo 3 Game Fuel didn't exist in the market until around 30 days before Halo 3 came out.
Halo 3 Burger King cups didn't exist until a day before Halo 3 came out.
Well duh, I know that.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
It's true. There's little incentive to advertise during the summer. Unless they put something against Olympic coverage there are very few major events, new shows, or other televised things going on that would be good to run advertising against for Halo 4. It makes sense to wait for the end of August and launch alongside core demographic blockbuster shows.
I'm not sure if you're a troll or just a moron. But everything written in this post just screams "If 343i says it's ok then I won't question a damn thing"
Saying that jetpack doesn't break map design and is pararell to grenade jumping is one the most idiotic things I've ever read on the internet.
Wait. Did you just say jetpacks don't break map flow? Really? This is probably the least controversial observation since noting that armor lock makes you invincible. It's a feature.
Nope, hell I forget a lot of details about Halo 3 marketing like thinking Starry Night was at the Super Bowl when it was just part of Monday Night Football.
Gabotron ES
Member
One of the very first footage we got had a camoed spartan being shot.
It's not lol... your problem is that you don't have an entitled and self important perspective that doesn't fit the actual dynamic at hand.
343 defense force reporting in: why do you guys think you deserve the designers and development team rationalizing/dissecting all of their decisions to you?
Ram said it the right way a few pages ago, but something about the game is for a lot of different people, not a competitive player's wet dream, etc etc. Your opinion is one in a sea of millions.
Ram said it the right way a few pages ago, but something about the game is for a lot of different people, not a competitive player's wet dream, etc etc. Your opinion is one in a sea of millions.
The term "balance" is so wrong.
Games aren't supposed to be balanced in the sense that nothing is as good as another, and that everything is equal and fair.
Good "balance" is unbalanced strengths and weaknesses.
Look at the 2GD video posted earlier about his FPS "Reborn." He constantly talks about risk/reward.
If all the weapons are "balanced" like a Halo 3 sandbox, where nothing is THAT good, there's very little risk in the game. Because there's very little risk, there's very little reward. Finally, without being rewarded, there's very little fun.
Halo 1's risk reward came from the constant THREAT, but not performance, of a 3 shot kill utility weapon in the fight for the reward stronger power ups and power weapons.
Halo 2's risk came from the threat of a closer range insta-kill with a BXR, BXB, and semi-threatening post-patch 4sk for the reward of stronger power ups and power weapons.
Halo 3 and Reach took a lot of risk out with the random BR spread and bloom mechanics. Those games also took out the risk of poor movement and navigation of the map with things like the Bubble Shield, Power Drainer, and AAs like Armor Lock and Drop Shield.
There's less risk for bad decisions because you can use these "get out of jail free" cards. Add that to longer kill times which also reduce the risk and the adrenaline pumping fun of Halo 1 and Halo 2 multiplayer is no where to be found.
Balance is not equality, balance is risk and reward.
Games aren't supposed to be balanced in the sense that nothing is as good as another, and that everything is equal and fair.
Good "balance" is unbalanced strengths and weaknesses.
Look at the 2GD video posted earlier about his FPS "Reborn." He constantly talks about risk/reward.
If all the weapons are "balanced" like a Halo 3 sandbox, where nothing is THAT good, there's very little risk in the game. Because there's very little risk, there's very little reward. Finally, without being rewarded, there's very little fun.
Halo 1's risk reward came from the constant THREAT, but not performance, of a 3 shot kill utility weapon in the fight for the reward stronger power ups and power weapons.
Halo 2's risk came from the threat of a closer range insta-kill with a BXR, BXB, and semi-threatening post-patch 4sk for the reward of stronger power ups and power weapons.
Halo 3 and Reach took a lot of risk out with the random BR spread and bloom mechanics. Those games also took out the risk of poor movement and navigation of the map with things like the Bubble Shield, Power Drainer, and AAs like Armor Lock and Drop Shield.
There's less risk for bad decisions because you can use these "get out of jail free" cards. Add that to longer kill times which also reduce the risk and the adrenaline pumping fun of Halo 1 and Halo 2 multiplayer is no where to be found.
Balance is not equality, balance is risk and reward.
thezerofire
Banned
Absolutely false. You can't grenade jump to shoot all the way from base to base on Asylum, or from base into Ring 2, completely destroying that middle cover. Or all the way across the map on Uncaged. Jetpack absolutely ruins map flow and positioning.
Also, if I may bring the Brink discussion back up, it was a mostly pretty fun game that was allowed to release with completely broken netcode, weapons that were mostly the same as one another, and maps that didn't take enough advantage of the movement options. In fact, the maps were mostly garbage altogether. I can't believe they were done by the de_dust guy.
The things it did right were having live balance updating in the form of hundreds of tweakable variables from run speed to individual bullet damage per gun that I hope every game starts using.
What do you want me to update? Add each episode?
Yea I used PGR TV a little. Watching top racers and seeing their lines.
If or when Halo gets a spectator mode, I honestly hope it's a PC client. I just don't see a controller or even next gen hardware handling everything that we would want.
Do not bring glitches to balance discussion... BXR wasn't desinged, so it doesn't count here.
Because it's good?
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Jetpacks are bad, Armor lock is bad. One breaks the flow of the map, one breaks the flow of the game. Hard light and boosters look way better. I just hope if Jetpack is back it's severely limited.
Deserve has nothing to do with it. I ask for such because it's a topic I'm interested in and it would be neat to hear about it. (Also, because 343's messaging about the game has been muddled and a clear channel of communication on design would help.) We are entitled to jack squat, but it's nice to have things.
He's upset because he played Halo CE once and got destroyed.
I found something cool on a 3d showcasing website.
Got a WebGL compatible browser? (Practically everything other than IE)
Take a tour of a High-Poly Sub-D model of the new Warthog:
Got a WebGL compatible browser? (Practically everything other than IE)
Take a tour of a High-Poly Sub-D model of the new Warthog:
It was in the game and affected gameplay for the better, glitch or not.
You also suggested putting a built in super jump in your "perfect Halo."
neoism
Member
This is comedy gold. You should do standup!
lol 99% of the time I dislike most of kylej's opinions...... but he is right in this.... 343 have done a good job on the game visual wise, but not in telling people about their game. mostly because there isn't a beta this time, and instead of playing it like we should, we get to see the game with shitty quality video, with terrible shitty commentary. I posted about this a few weeks ago, I guess I just don't have the patience anymore for them to show unfinished work and to explain what something is and to say o we'll fix/tweak that no worries. I know you guys need to show the game before its released, and I don't really know how games are put together, seems like you guys work on a lot on "pieces" and just put it together a few months before launch lol. still though if you guys have a more up to date version why not show us fans instead of showing an old version of the game that will be meaningless once the game is out.
Guess I'm gettin to old for this shit.
Any system can be broken with enough trying. With enough metagaming. All balance discussion is about ideal situations. Not real world. So, no glitches.
Also, what does something i'd do have to do with this?
Nothing, it looks like, but something you can use as ad hominem.
Also, why insinuate my vision of Halo is perfect? It ain't. It is just a vision, a vision that might not work in practice.
Because super jumping was a glitch, but then you suggested it be implemented into the game on purpose.
I feel like that wasn't too far of a comparison...
neoism
Member
I haven't played in like a year and I suck at h3 a lot more but i'm down lol BTB or social.
I meant Crysis-like double jump, not a real super jump like in Halo 2. Apologies for not being clearer. But though that would be obvious.
Also noted that map desing would have to take this into account.
Gabotron ES
Member
For the better, more competitive players... yes.
MaximumFlipFlop
Banned
MMM, I still have my Halo 3 Gamefuel and Doritos. Will eat in Honor of Halo 4 on Nov 6th.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Its not about competitive vs non-competitive players at this point. Its about everyone. Noone really has a home in Reach. There's no good structure. I see people constantly coming in here because they keep getting matched against teams of Inheritors stomping on them. It would make sense casuals need a team playlist that doesn't allow partying. No though. Casuals continue to get destroyed by good parties which leaves them pissed and quitting and the good players pissed they have to sit through another 4 on 1. When you get that fifth player you used to play Squad Slayer now you have to play Objective, statistically a lass favorite playlist than a slayer playlist. Yet they add another slayer 4v4? So parties of five now have less enjoyment than parties of four. What happens when you get that sixth? Its either INVASION or its up Boring Team Battle with a couple randies.
How so?
I was thinking that if we could get 10 we could do MLG customs.
Jetpacks are an inherent part of the game. The map's "flow", or pathing, did not originally have a state in which the jetpacks don't exist in the shipping game. They even mentioned making adjustments to Reflection to accomodate jetpack usage by making the ceiling higher and the sniper rifle ledge bigger to make it easier to land on.
While I think they could have been nerfed a bit (should have had a short usage so they were more of a jump pack than a hover), you trade being able to jump up a level by the inability to speed your way to your destination with sprint or protecting yourself with armor lock. You also make a very loud noise as you do so, so you're definitely trading being covert away. Finally, you have a gigantic thing on your back that makes you easier to see and get stuck with.
You could use a grenade jump in a similar way in Halo 2 to go backwards through the seawall on Zanzibar, even though it was intended as a one-way trip for the offense to attack from. The grav lift made it easier to do in 3, but I don't see people claiming the grav lift broke map flow. It IS the map's flow. If you don't want a jetpacker to be able to go up somewhere, you put a damn ceiling or soft kill down, or scale the map vertically, like they did to for Tombstone to accomodate Halo 2's moonjumping. It's not that hard. Bungie's designers weren't fucking helplessly watching as jetpacks rampaged all over their maps, and the idea that they would be helpless to consider the jetpack's impact on the maps is insulting.
You obviously don't know my opinion of 343 and your replies are just personal insults. I'm not wasting my time on you anymore.
neoism
Member
glitches ruined 2 for me..... :/ I was a 33 I think but most game were glitch paradise. :/ I just wanted to play the game. They were amazing fun for about a month though
And that's exactly how I feel as well. I would love them to tell us all about their design philosophy on everything, because it would be enjoyable to read.
Its different when people in here are demanding they inform us about every decision they decide to make.
Vid or didn't happen...
FUD is an expansion of the universe that a lot of the community has been asking about for years. People want a Halo movie, they're kind of getting one.
The casual Halo buyer will not care about the game until a few weeks before release, which coincidentally is when the marketing machine will start up.
I'm totally with you guys when you say 343's attempts at sharing information has been highly flawed, but they has absolutely nothing to do with the real marketing campaign and the casual joe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6Qd9VR1gD8#t=3m40s
FW usually has a less than popular opinion, and lord knows I never agree with him. But this type of argument is so lame at this point in the internets life, heh.
neoism
Member
I hate mlg but customs are fun
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