Halo: Reach |OT5| A Monument to All Our Sins

kylej

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Bought Gears 2. Had a "Do Not Sell Before 11/07/08" sticker on the top. :eek:

If anyone wants to roll through the Campaign tonight lemme know
 

Tawpgun

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neoism said:
All I know is I really hope they don't mess with inertia in Reach and 4.. I really hope its in 4. It just adds realism and its so well done in REACH. Does anyone know who did the first person cam in this game. The weapon sway, head bob and all of that is just amazing. So thanks you to whomever did that in Reach. <3



Also Melee bleed-through? doesn't that just make it easier to melee? I love the melee in Reach
Listen, I'm all for making a Battlefield/Ghost Recon-esque super immersive visceral Halo game.

But keep it seperate from the fast paced arena shooter that is Halo. kthx.

Not sure why you're against moving slower, not being able to strafe, and not being able to dodge nades.

Also, Off Topic but Notch (creator of Minecraft) just challenged Bethesda to a 3 v 3 Quake Duel to settle the lawsuit.

That is amazing.

Which brings me to my next question aimed at Frankles or Ellis. Is there anyone at 343 currently who you would say is really good at Halo? I know Bungie has Luke Smith and some other pretty good players. But does 343 have a dream team of Halo players?

kylej said:
Bought Gears 2. Had a "Do Not Sell Before 11/07/08" sticker on the top. :eek:

If anyone wants to roll through the Campaign tonight lemme know
If nothing special is happening on Halo tonight I'll do it.
 

Striker

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Shake Appeal said:
Bloomless DMR with all other variable intact is a good way to deliver a killing blow to the limping monstrosity that is Hemorrhage.
The problem with Hemorrhage is the vehicle damage that is sponged by the power of the DMR and Sniper. Of course I don't like the changes Bungie did, i.e. incorrect teleporter placement, Coag terrain with Blood Gulch base design, blue team teleporter rock coverage being poor, and so on.

The issue is the scope of the DMR's range on the map, not the map itself. The BTB map that is dog shit no matter what way you want to cut it is Paradiso/Utopie, and that is on Bungie's filthy hands of releasing this area in Forge World rather than a real island like something we would see in Relic.

Tashi0106 said:
Also, good luck keeping snipers in check.
They're snipers for a reason. Balance them out by proper spawn timers and ammo count.

I think you're looking at these changes in a small scheme of things, i.e. only in MLG. You have to look at it from every stage of playlists and map size.

EDIT:

Halo 2 had problems with melees not killing because some of the BXB's wouldn't register
It's a glitch, that's why. :p

The melee system in Halo 2 I loved because of the momentum filter and damage based on weapon, speed, etc. And exchanging deaths because of Fair&#153; gameplay is boring, not fun, and can rot in hell.
 

Ramirez

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I really despise the DMR's range in BTB, you could say it's a map design issue, but I don't think people should be able to hit each other without moving from their bases in Hemo.

I kind of wish HiH wasn't one of the maps being brought back, it's a very stale map in Team Classic because you literally cannot traverse the map without getting pinged from all directions. Probably was the same in CE, I only played it with 3 friends who didn't know the Pistol was OP. It was pretty boring in Halo 2 as well, just didn't age well, IMO.

really good at Halo? I know Bungie has Luke Smith
Troll of the year.
 

Captain Blood

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Ramirez said:
I felt Halo 3's visual indicators were absolutely perfect. If a guy's shields were illuminated, you knew that one headshot or a beatdown would kill him. Halo 2 had problems with melees not killing because some of the BXB's wouldn't register, I really felt Halo 3 had a brilliant melee/shield mechanic after the first TU. There were a bunch of traded kills, but I would like it to be kept to just melees instead of everything in the game if I had to choose between 3 & Reach.
If you only shoot headshots you don't need to know when to switch from body shots....
Dealwithitshades.gif
 

GhaleonEB

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Risen said:
I'm just unsure why people think cross mapping is a bad thing... what I see is that only people with sufficient skill are going to be able to land the shots, people who are not as good will get killed by it by not knowing how, or being able to respond.

Say you do drop to a 2x... now you have to get closer to engage effectively for most people correct?

You just shrunk the playable surface of the map and slowed the game down. BTB is already slow enough.

3x zoom increases the playable area of a map and means people can't move without intention and must always be ready to engage. It speeds up game play which I see as a good thing.

Someone help me with the why being able to kill someone with the DMR at long ranges is bad, if everyone has the same gun in their hand?
Take this logic and apply it maps from the series past. Let's do Halo 3, Valhalla. On that map, players on the center hill could do no more than ping players in the base. You had to work to get closer to the base to really get into BR range. In Reach, players on the hill and base would be in a constant firefight - and anyone in between would get evicerated.

Likewise, Standoff, where players would be cross mapping from the top of the bases, not across the rock gardens. Or Terminal, Waterworks, Relic (players on top would destroy the attacking team with DMR fire), Headlong (top of building to offensive spawn building cross mapping), Sandtrap (open dunes = killing zone) and so on across every BTB map in the series. Like Blood Gulch, for instance, which is a cross-mapping nightmare in Reach.

The range of the DMR really decimates BTB map design.
 

FyreWulff

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Risen said:
I'm just unsure why people think cross mapping is a bad thing... what I see is that only people with sufficient skill are going to be able to land the shots, people who are not as good will get killed by it by not knowing how, or being able to respond.
When everyone starts with a weapon that lets you shoot across an entire big map just like you can on a small map, it just seems to defeat the point of having a big map to me. Big maps = localized battles, choice of paths, gate control. Smaller maps with a lot of people = spotfest gaming.

This is why I have always said and will continue to say that BR start in Halo 2 BTB objectives and Halo 3 BTB Objectives and DMR starts in Reach BTB Objectives continues to be one of the most puzzling decisions I continue to see. Slayer doesn't matter, there's no base you need to protect so go ahead and start everyone with a power weapon. In objective, it removes strategy and coordination and just turns into who can play Slayer harder and then get lucky enough to get the objective through the hailfire because people are not punished for making poor decisions while defending the flag. They don't have to worry about force placement or weapon control. You wipe a team out and grab the flag? Whatever, they all spawn with longrifles, they just have to wait 5 seconds and they can kill you off spawn and return the flag, even though you took the care to control the side of the base you're taking it out from and ensure they spawn in the opposite direction.


BR start Standoff turned an awesome map into a brown Midship.
 

Ramirez

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Captain Blood said:
If you only shoot headshots you don't need to know when to switch from body shots....
Dealwithitshades.gif
lol, yea I always aim for the head, if you're shooting body shots and then switch to the head, the guy shooting at the head should kill you every time if all the shots land for both guys...
 

thezerofire

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GhaleonEB said:
Take this logic and apply it maps from the series past. Let's do Halo 3, Valhalla. On that map, players on the center hill could do no more than ping players in the base. You had to work to get closer to the base to really get into BR range. In Reach, players on the hill and base would be in a constant firefight - and anyone in between would get evicerated.

Likewise, Standoff, where players would be cross mapping from the top of the bases, not across the rock gardens. Or Terminal, Waterworks, Relic (players on top would destroy the attacking team with DMR fire), Headlong (top of building to offensive spawn building cross mapping), Sandtrap (open dunes = killing zone) and so on across every BTB map in the series. Like Blood Gulch, for instance, which is a cross-mapping nightmare in Reach.

The range of the DMR really decimates BTB map design.
Exactly this. Ghaleon says it better than I ever could.
 

Captain Blood

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Ramirez said:
lol, yea I always aim for the head, if you're shooting body shots and then switch to the head, the guy shooting at the head should kill you every time if all the shots land for both guys...
I was just playing around. I agree that the Halo 3 shield system seemed fine. I can't ever remember being confused about if a persons shields were up or down.
 

Steelyuhas

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Shake Appeal said:
Actually, I don't know why I'm complaining about a bloomless DMR. I will do better with one.

Any word on the pistol? I kind of like how many people seem to suck at using it currently.
No, but I guess we can only assume/hope that is got the same treatment as the DMR.

And to jump in on the melee. Much much prefer the melee strength of CE and H2 instead of H3 and Reach.
 

PooBone

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GhaleonEB said:
Take this logic and apply it maps from the series past. Let's do Halo 3, Valhalla. On that map, players on the center hill could do no more than ping players in the base. You had to work to get closer to the base to really get into BR range. In Reach, players on the hill and base would be in a constant firefight - and anyone in between would get evicerated.

Likewise, Standoff, where players would be cross mapping from the top of the bases, not across the rock gardens. Or Terminal, Waterworks, Relic (players on top would destroy the attacking team with DMR fire), Headlong (top of building to offensive spawn building cross mapping), Sandtrap (open dunes = killing zone) and so on across every BTB map in the series. Like Blood Gulch, for instance, which is a cross-mapping nightmare in Reach.

The range of the DMR really decimates BTB map design.
Look at a map like Containment, where it's a large BTB map, but the design eliminates line of sight to have this sort of long range domination.
 

FyreWulff

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Steelyuhas said:
No, but I guess we can only assume/hope that is got the same treatment as the DMR.

And to jump in on the melee. Much much prefer the melee strength of CE and H2 instead of H3 and Reach.
I think I would have liked the concept of H2's melee, except for the fact that it was kind of hackish. I believe they were going for simulating being punched in the head with the damage buff for jumping while meleeing. But this resulted in the massive lunge allowing people to instantly kill you by punching you in the feet on Warlock with a bomb. Which was stupid and made no sense. I guess the H2 spartans had literal Achilles Heel.

I prefer Halo 3/Reach's "objective is an instant kill all the time" over "well, I survive that encounter with the bomb that one tiOHWHATTHESHITHOWDIDHEKILLME"
 

Devin Olsen

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Lol so I was just at a gas station and the attendant was like "nice shirt" and without thinking I was like "thanks". Until I realized what shirt I was wearing...


This is the first time I've ever had anyone recognize what this shirt was. How about you guys? When/if you're wearing obscure halo/Bungie shirts do you get comments on them?
 

Devolution

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PooBone said:
Look at a map like Containment, where it's a large BTB map, but the design eliminates line of sight to have this sort of long range domination.
Yes. Same with waterworks.

Highlands suffers from the same problem as hemorrhage.


Devin Olsen said:
This is the first time I've ever had anyone recognize what this shirt was. How about you guys? When/if you're wearing obscure halo/Bungie shirts do you get comments on them?
Haven't worn one but if I wore it around SF or at school (art school that includes video game design) someone would totally call me out on it I'm sure.
 

Brolic Gaoler

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Devin Olsen said:
Lol so I was just at a gas station and the attendant was like "nice shirt" and without thinking I was like "thanks". Until I realized what shirt I was wearing...


This is the first time I've ever had anyone recognize what this shirt was. How about you guys? When/if you're wearing obscure halo/Bungie shirts do you get comments on them?

Happens to me all the time, but only with Dropkick Murphys shirts.
 

Steelyuhas

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FyreWulff said:
I think I would have liked the concept of H2's melee, except for the fact that it was kind of hackish. I believe they were going for simulating being punched in the head with the damage buff for jumping while meleeing. But this resulted in the massive lunge allowing people to instantly kill you by punching you in the feet on Warlock with a bomb. Which was stupid and made no sense. I guess the H2 spartans had literal Achilles Heel.

I prefer Halo 3/Reach's "objective is an instant kill all the time" over "well, I survive that encounter with the bomb that one tiOHWHATTHESHITHOWDIDHEKILLME"
Yeah I'm more speaking to the basic design of the melee. Obviously I wouldn't want something like that.

IMO, objectives should just be 2-hit kills. Never been a fan of the one-hit melee kills with the objective.
 

thezerofire

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FyreWulff said:
I think I would have liked the concept of H2's melee, except for the fact that it was kind of hackish. I believe they were going for simulating being punched in the head with the damage buff for jumping while meleeing. But this resulted in the massive lunge allowing people to instantly kill you by punching you in the feet on Warlock with a bomb. Which was stupid and made no sense. I guess the H2 spartans had literal Achilles Heel.

I prefer Halo 3/Reach's "objective is an instant kill all the time" over "well, I survive that encounter with the bomb that one tiOHWHATTHESHITHOWDIDHEKILLME"
My favorite melee besides CE because of the no lunge is Halo 3's MLG on xbox live, where the objective isn't a one hit kill, but if you press R at the same time it is.

I guess I just like glitches.
 
I keep having to bring this up, but part of what made Halo CE and the Pistol so magical, was the consistent magnetism and aim assist values while scoped or not scoped. Only Halo CE and Shadowrun have this mechanic, where you don't lose your magnetism or aim assist if you are out of zoom, only if you are out of range, it doesn't matter whether you are scoped or not. I think this is what makes fighting back with a Pistol against Pistol(s) in Halo CE more fair. In subsequent Halo games, if you were at a certain distance, and you get shot by a guy scoped in shooting, you have to either shoot back with no aim assist, or try to zoom in and shoot back. It turns into a fight of who can stay scoped more to hit aim assisted shots, or you struggle to hit shots with no aim assist. It also makes the gunplay a little inconsistent that you have aim assist, then suddenly don't and have to fight to get it back.

In Halo CE, you will see most good players never scope while shooting the Pistol, and only zoom in to 2x on the Sniper, unless you are playing some huge ass map like Blood Gulch or Sidewinder. Otherwise, it isn't necessary to scope in, and actually can be worse because you lose some peripheral vision. In Halo CE, it was tough as hell to run on the upper walkways in Hang em' High as well, but at least you could shoot back effectively, you could strafe, quick crouch and out shoot the guy because you didn't have to worry about being scoped in to fight back effectively. In Reach you are toast, because you are getting pegged cross map and have a gun that has no aim assist unless scoped in at that range.

I remember a specific example in Halo 2 where I switched back from Boxer to Default because I couldn't keep up in ranged BR battles, I had to hit B to scope in on Boxer, and was getting out shot consistently because of it. I switched back to Default so I could zoom back in quick enough to compete. I have always hated that this changed from Halo CE to subsequent Halo games, and love that Shadowrun went back to the Halo CE gunplay style, thanks to John Howard.
 

FyreWulff

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neoism said:
Does anyone know who did the first person cam in this game. The weapon sway, head bob and all of that is just amazing. So thanks you to whomever did that in Reach. <3
That was Sage. He stated in one of the podcasts that he liked the sway and bob for first person guns from Halo 1 and brought it back.
 

thezerofire

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Booshka said:
I keep having to bring this up, but part of what made Halo CE and the Pistol so magical, was the consistent magnetism and aim assist values while scoped or not scoped. Only Halo CE and Shadowrun have this mechanic, where you don't lose your magnetism or aim assist if you are out of zoom, only if you are out of range, it doesn't matter whether you are scoped or not. I think this is what makes fighting back with a Pistol against Pistol(s) in Halo CE more fair. In subsequent Halo games, if you were at a certain distance, and you get shot by a guy scoped in shooting, you have to either shoot back with no aim assist, or try to zoom in and shoot back. It turns into a fight of who can stay scoped more to hit aim assisted shots, or you struggle to hit shots with no aim assist. It also makes the gunplay a little inconsistent that you have aim assist, then suddenly don't and have to fight to get it back.

In Halo CE, you will see most good players never scope while shooting the Pistol, and only zoom in to 2x on the Sniper, unless you are playing some huge ass map like Blood Gulch or Sidewinder. Otherwise, it isn't necessary to scope in, and actually can be worse because you lose some peripheral vision. In Halo CE, it was tough as hell to run on the upper walkways in Hang em' High as well, but at least you could shoot back effectively, you could strafe, quick crouch and out shoot the guy because you didn't have to worry about being scoped in to fight back effectively. In Reach you are toast, because you are getting pegged cross map and have a gun that has no aim assist unless scoped in at that range.

I remember a specific example in Halo 2 where I switched back from Boxer to Default because I couldn't keep up in ranged BR battles, I had to hit B to scope in on Boxer, and was getting out shot consistently because of it. I switched back to Default so I could zoom back in quick enough to compete. I have always hated that this changed from Halo CE to subsequent Halo games, and love that Shadowrun went back to the Halo CE gunplay style, thanks to John Howard.
Wow I did not know this. Great point.
 

Striker

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Devolution said:
Yes. Same with waterworks.

Highlands suffers from the same problem as hemorrhage.
What Highlands suffers from is placing an abundance amount of power weapons scattered throughout the map. No need for: 2x snipers, 2x rockets, 2x shotguns, Grenade Launcher, Plasma Launcher, and a Spartan Laser. For a map with just a Warthog at each base, plus Ghosts in the way side, it's overkill. I think Hemo is perfectly fine in its weapon set as long as 343 fixes the Sniper-vehicle combat. Plasma Launcher in the middle, i.e. Rockets in Halo 2, is great.

Fine map design but poor, poor weapon placement and decision making.

FyreWulff said:
I prefer Halo 3/Reach's "objective is an instant kill all the time" over "well, I survive that encounter with the bomb that one tiOHWHATTHESHITHOWDIDHEKILLME"
I liked the 2 hit kills before myself.

But objective design has gotten ran over by a mack truck in Halo 3 and Reach. Gametypes have been terrible or have highly questionable design imprints.
 

Hypertrooper

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Ramirez said:
You still never said why you were regretting flying to Seattle?
Just typical german problems.
I saw the entry page for the german HaloFest competition and only >10 guys took part at it. So it were a easy win and then I saw my bank account details and how many bucks I paid for the trip. That made me kind of depressed.
 

Tawpgun

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FyreWulff said:
I prefer Halo 3/Reach's "objective is an instant kill all the time" over "well, I survive that encounter with the bomb that one tiOHWHATTHESHITHOWDIDHEKILLME"
You're doing it wrong.

If someone is in your way, drop the objective and kill them.
 

feel

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Devin Olsen said:
Lol so I was just at a gas station and the attendant was like "nice shirt" and without thinking I was like "thanks". Until I realized what shirt I was wearing...
http://i.imgur.com/uqHfEl.jpg[img]

This is the first time I've ever had anyone recognize what this shirt was. How about you guys? When/if you're wearing obscure halo/Bungie shirts do you get comments on them?[/QUOTE]I heard Hypertrooper got into a foursome with 3 stunning german blonde babes just because of the shirt he was wearing at Gamescom, if that counts. And I just realized why he's down on going to Halofest, there won't even be 3 girls total in the seattle event, so what happened to him at gamescom will be unsurpassable.
 

thezerofire

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A27 Tawpgun said:
You're doing it wrong.

If someone is in your way, drop the objective and kill them.
unless it's oddball or bomb and Bungie implemented the "lol you stepped on the objective now you're holding it" system
 

Domino Theory

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Letters said:
I heard Hypertrooper got into a foursome with 3 stunning german blonde babes just because of the shirt he was wearing at Gamescom, if that counts. And I just realized why he's down on going to Halofest, there won't even be 3 girls total in the seattle event, so what happened to him at gamescom will be unsurpassable.
I'm expecting massive autograph signing while I wear the HaloGAF shirt at PAX.
 

Devolution

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Striker said:
What Highlands suffers from is placing an abundance amount of power weapons scattered throughout the map. No need for: 2x snipers, 2x rockets, 2x shotguns, Grenade Launcher, Plasma Launcher, and a Spartan Laser. For a map with just a Warthog at each base, plus Ghosts in the way side, it's overkill. I think Hemo is perfectly fine in its weapon set as long as 343 fixes the Sniper-vehicle combat. Plasma Launcher in the middle, i.e. Rockets in Halo 2, is great.

Fine map design but poor, poor weapon placement and decision making.
Oh yeah there are definitely too many power weapons on highlands. Just the other night I was almost at our base before a sudden death, and a sniper just takes me out because it's so open. But my comparison to hemorrhage was it's even worse when it comes to cross mapping since you can see each base from the other. And with snipes spawning at each base it just makes for stagnant standoffish play.
 

Hypertrooper

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Letters said:
I heard Hypertrooper got into a foursome with 3 stunning german blonde babes just because of the shirt he was wearing at Gamescom, if that counts. And I just realized why he's down on going to Halofest, there won't even be 3 girls total in the seattle event, so what happened to him at gamescom will be unsurpassable.
I would have nailed them, if my shirt had had the BELI343 at the back. Damn you Eu-store! Going to wear it tomorrow again. If you are at GamesCom tomorrow, I'll be the whole time at the MS booth and playing Halo. Just sayin'.
 

Risen

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GhaleonEB said:
Take this logic and apply it maps from the series past. Let's do Halo 3, Valhalla. On that map, players on the center hill could do no more than ping players in the base. You had to work to get closer to the base to really get into BR range. In Reach, players on the hill and base would be in a constant firefight - and anyone in between would get evicerated.

Likewise, Standoff, where players would be cross mapping from the top of the bases, not across the rock gardens. Or Terminal, Waterworks, Relic (players on top would destroy the attacking team with DMR fire), Headlong (top of building to offensive spawn building cross mapping), Sandtrap (open dunes = killing zone) and so on across every BTB map in the series. Like Blood Gulch, for instance, which is a cross-mapping nightmare in Reach.

The range of the DMR really decimates BTB map design.
Skilled players certainly could do more than ping from top mid in Valhalla. With mid control people were routinely killed in 5-6 shots in the bases if they were caught unaware or in the open.

It still seems we are looking through lenses of skill and team work. I get that at it's extremes it's a bad idea. I don't fault the logic that far. I just don't think the 3x is the extreme some seem to make it. In your examples above when talking about what decimates, sure... in an unbalanced skill scenario you are correct. But given two equally skilled teams, it won't play out that way.

Even in Blood Gulch in Reach... using snipes... it's not like good teams don't move to the middle of the map to control the opposite base... and that's with a snipe which has a much farther range than the DMR. Movement is still there...

Also, the Hang Em High reference earlier... in higher levels of play, the map played exactly alike be it pistol, br, or now needle rifle/dmr.

Anywho.. gotta run, would love to discuss it more later, but I'm sure by the time I get back 10 pages will be gone.

Thanks for the thoughts Gal!
 

Kuroyume

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There's nothing wrong with the range of the DMR. If you're getting killed by it constantly in BTB then it's because you probably don't know how to move around properly and you're running out in the open like a fool.
 

thezerofire

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Kuroyume said:
There's nothing wrong with the range of the DMR. If you're getting killed by it constantly in BTB then it's because you probably don't know how to move around properly and you're running out in the open like a fool.
In previous games you could fight back when you were in the open. See Booshka's post above.