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Halo: Reach |OT7| What are They to Say Now?

ncsuDuncan

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Apr 9, 2010
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Halo's eroding popularity can be pinpointed to six things:

1. Removing the Chopper.
2. Removing the Chopper.
3. Removing the Chopper.
4. Removing the Chopper.
5. Removing the Chopper.
6. Removing the Chopper.
 

Plywood

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May 27, 2009
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Halo's eroding popularity can be pinpointed to six things. The AR, slowed down gameplay, overpowerd vehicles, bad maps/forge, bad playlist management, and armor abilites/equipment. Reach is the nail in the coffin but H3 is what poisoned the brand.
But:

  1. The AR is the signature Halo weapon
  2. I need slower gameplay so I have more time to think
  3. Vehicles need to be stronger because 5 spartans shooting me can take me out and that feels illegal
  4. Bad maps? You just need to adapt to the forge suite and how every forge map essentially is the same thing
  5. Bad playlist management? I love playing Spire BTB
  6. AA's are futuretech bro
 

The Librarian

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Apr 22, 2008
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Halo's eroding popularity can be pinpointed to six things that I don't like because everyone has the same opinion as me, and obviously if I don't like it, nobody else does. Here they are. The AR, slowed down gameplay, overpowerd vehicles, bad maps/forge, bad playlist management, and armor abilites/equipment. Reach is the nail in the coffin but H3 is what poisoned the brand.
Fixed that for you.
 
But:

  1. The AR is the signature Halo weapon
  2. I need slower gameplay so I have more to think
  3. Vehicles need to be stronger because 5 spartans shooting me can take me out and that feels illegal
  4. Bad maps? You just need to adapt to the forge suite and how every forge map essentially is the same thing
  5. Bad playlist management? I love playing Spire BTB
  6. AA's are futuretech bro


You guys want a chopper, go play Halo Wars!
 

Tunavi

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Aug 2, 2010
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The repeater was basically introduced for Elites to have a bigger chance in Invasion, it will probably stay as I don't see 343i axing such a popular gametype.
I'm gonna stop you right here. Invasion isn't coming back, it sucks out way too many resources from the developing period and only adds to playlist spam. Bungie put so much effort into Invasion, (loadouts spread into other playlists, elites/spartan differences, etc), and we only got TWO maps that don't work for any other gametype (Spire is just a horrible fight for the banshee). I like the Invasion playlist because it's fun, but theres not enough time to develop staple gametypes and massive gametypes like Invasion, and have them both be successful.
 
Well, the statis part is just an easter egg. If you count that, then Buck's fetish for eating bugs off monkey men is also canon.
It totally is.



As for the rest, personally, I recommend living in denial and pretending that Reach doesn't exist.
I guess you're right about MC being in stasis as an easter egg... but still, the PoA was never on the ground during the battle of Reach! They were leaving the system as the battle began, ugh.

<bungle-raping-Fall-of-Reach.jpg>
 

The Librarian

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Apr 22, 2008
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Halo's eroding popularity can be pinpointed to six things:

1. Removing the Chopper.
2. Removing the Chopper.
3. Removing the Chopper.
4. Removing the Chopper.
5. Removing the Chopper.
6. Removing the Chopper.
Bungie may have removed the chopper, but we did get the pro-pipe. And truth be told, I'd rather have the pro-pipe than the chopper.
 
Feb 28, 2011
6,930
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I guess you're right about MC being in stasis as an easter egg... but still, the PoA was never on the ground during the battle of Reach! They were leaving the system as the battle began, ugh.

<bungle-raping-Fall-of-Reach.jpg>
Do we know that's MC? Wasn't Linda on the PoA too?
 
Do we know that's MC? Wasn't Linda on the PoA too?
It doesn't matter, none of the Spartans were in stasis for any part of the battle over Reach. Like I said before, MC doesn't go into stasis until after they slip out of the Reach system.

However, Linda did take part in the combat action MC performed near the end of the book, so she was there on the PoA.

Bungie may have removed the chopper, but we did get the pro-pipe. And truth be told, I'd rather have the pro-pipe than the chopper.
I'd rather have both.
 

Hypertrooper

Member
Jul 12, 2007
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Alright so I just finished re-reading the original print of 'The Fall of Reach', and I am just wondering...

how in the hell was the Pillar of Autumn on Reach's Orbit any time during that battle? I don't even know how the data-drops, or even the additional content in the back of the new printing of FoR can make sense of how roughshod FoR ran over Reach's story.

MC was even in stasis until they entered slipspace at the end of the battle, and he didn't take part in a combat action in orbit above Reach while the planet is being invaded. But we read about him fighting to destroy the datas at Gamma Station, and the PoA on Reach's Orbit.. which never happens.

No wonder Frankles said everything is going to tie together from now on, lol.
Fixed.
 

ncsuDuncan

Member
Apr 9, 2010
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Couldn't wait your turn, could you? ;-)
Nope.

On the twelfth day of Reach-mas, my trueskill gave to me...
Twleve Snipers Sniping
Eleven (Pro)Pipers Piping
Ten Swords Evading
Nine Banshees Flipping
Eight Nades-a-Nuking
Se7en Hosts-a-Winning
Six Mongeese Racing
FIVE HALO RINGS
Four LOL-ing Nerds
Three French Leaks
Two Grifball Clubs
And the Chopper from Halo 3.
 

Hypertrooper

Member
Jul 12, 2007
10,068
0
0
Germany
Nope.

On the twelfth day of Reach-mas, my trueskill gave to me...
Twleve Snipers Sniping
Eleven (Pro)Pipers Piping
Ten Swords Evading
Nine Banshees Flipping
Eight Nades-a-Nuking
Se7en Hosts-a-Winning
Six Mongeese Racing
FIVE HALO RINGS
Four LOL-ing Nerds
Three French Leaks
Two Grifball Clubs
And the Chopper from Halo 3.
Awesome. AWESOME. AWESOME!
 

Gabotron ES

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Jul 1, 2011
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I'm gonna stop you right here. Invasion isn't coming back, it sucks out way too many resources from the developing period and only adds to playlist spam. Bungie put so much effort into Invasion, (loadouts spread into other playlists, elites/spartan differences, etc), and we only got TWO maps that don't work for any other gametype (Spire is just a horrible fight for the banshee). I like the Invasion playlist because it's fun, but theres not enough time to develop staple gametypes and massive gametypes like Invasion, and have them both be successful.
Dunno bro, I hope 343i continues with Bungie's philosophy of not axing features.

You know, they'd have gave us a real map editor (terrain editor, daytime changes...) to make Invasion maps instead of recycling others, they'd have also released Megalo to the fans (Invasion is entirely Megalo scripted) and even make all loadouts except sprint Invasion/BTB only, but you know... they went full retard mode and missed a great chance.

I'm sure Invasion will stay in some form, Stockpile and Headhunter can go fuck themselves though.

Invasion is among the most populated playlists, even more than MLG's bloomless ultra hardcore shitz.
 

squidhands

Member
Mar 16, 2009
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Nope.

On the twelfth day of Reach-mas, my trueskill gave to me...
Twleve Snipers Sniping
Eleven (Pro)Pipers Piping
Ten Swords Evading
Nine Banshees Flipping
Eight Nades-a-Nuking
Se7en Hosts-a-Winning
Six Mongeese Racing
FIVE HALO RINGS
Four LOL-ing Nerds
Three French Leaks
Two Grifball Clubs
And the Chopper from Halo 3.
You never disappoint. Bravo.
 

feel

Member
Jul 16, 2009
16,605
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690
Halo's eroding popularity can be pinpointed to six things:

1. Removing the Chopper.
2. Removing the Chopper.
3. Removing the Chopper.
4. Removing the Chopper.
5. Removing the Chopper.
6. Removing the Chopper.
Considering they tossed almost 10 years of sublime vehicle code and had some interns create them from scratch for Reach, I'm glad the Chopper didn't make it, it would've felt terrible just like the rest of the vehicles in the game and it's best if we hold on to the memories until a proper return some day.
 

Gabotron ES

Member
Jul 1, 2011
4,975
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I'm gonna stop you right here. Invasion isn't coming back, it sucks out way too many resources from the developing period and only adds to playlist spam. Bungie put so much effort into Invasion, (loadouts spread into other playlists, elites/spartan differences, etc), and we only got TWO maps that don't work for any other gametype (Spire is just a horrible fight for the banshee). I like the Invasion playlist because it's fun, but theres not enough time to develop staple gametypes and massive gametypes like Invasion, and have them both be successful.
Regarding Elites/Spartans differences, I think it was a good move as people were already complaining about dinos back in 3. Bungie could have let us modify Spartan and Elites traits separately, maybe even loadouts specific base traits, make fall damage toggable but they went the lazy way.

So many missed chances :(
 
Considering they tossed almost 10 years of sublime vehicle code and had SAGE create them from scratch for Reach, I'm glad the Chopper didn't make it, it would've felt terrible just like the rest of the vehicles in the game and it's best if we hold on to the memories until a proper return some day.
Fixed that for you. They had to bring in someone who worked on the 'Hog way back in the day to fix it before Reach retail came out, because it was so broken.

Also, why the hell do Elites in Reach act like brutes. You break their shield and they just rush you? They are no better than brutes, I'd say even easier to kill given your weapons sometimes. PP+DMR shits all over every elite in the game, even the Zealots at the very end. I guess they are a bit faster than Brutes at least.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Feb 1, 2011
17,727
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www.alpha27.net
Nope.

On the twelfth day of Reach-mas, my trueskill gave to me...
Twleve Snipers Sniping
Eleven (Pro)Pipers Piping
Ten Swords Evading
Nine Banshees Flipping
Eight Nades-a-Nuking
Se7en Hosts-a-Winning
Six Mongeese Racing
FIVE HALO RINGS
Four LOL-ing Nerds
Three French Leaks
Two Grifball Clubs
And the Chopper from Halo 3.
Official HaloGAF Songwriter (copyright)

Someone record this ASAP.
 

Falagard

Member
Nov 1, 2006
2,615
0
0
Canada
Nope.

On the twelfth day of Reach-mas, my trueskill gave to me...
Twleve Snipers Sniping
Eleven (Pro)Pipers Piping
Ten Swords Evading
Nine Banshees Flipping
Eight Nades-a-Nuking
Se7en Hosts-a-Winning
Six Mongeese Racing
FIVE HALO RINGS
Four LOL-ing Nerds
Three French Leaks
Two Grifball Clubs
And the Chopper from Halo 3.
Haha, genius.
 

Falagard

Member
Nov 1, 2006
2,615
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0
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Fixed that for you. They had to bring in someone who worked on the 'Hog way back in the day to fix it before Reach retail came out, because it was so broken.

Also, why the hell do Elites in Reach act like brutes. You break their shield and they just rush you? They are no better than brutes, I'd say even easier to kill given your weapons sometimes. PP+DMR shits all over every elite in the game, even the Zealots at the very end. I guess they are a bit faster than Brutes at least.
Yeah, I remember one of the Vidocs before the Beta mentioning that Sage was the one that redid the vehicle physics from scratch, and that a lot of Bungie employees were up in arms because the hog felt really bad, and then they said that Sage came through in the end and fixed it up before the Beta.

I'm not sure what the true / full story is, but it still doesn't feel as good as previous Halos. There's a saying - if it ain't broke, don't fucking touch my Halos.
 
But no one plays Halo 3 anymore....
Actually some of us were just playing H3 last night.

It... has some issues.

I think Reach could have easily been a 'better' multiplayer experience than H3 (and in several ways it is) than H3 if not for some of the design decisions made for Reach (bloom, 3x DMR scope, OP AAs, paper vehicles, OP Banshee, too-slow-movement-speed/inertia, etc).

Yeah, I remember one of the Vidocs before the Beta mentioning that Sage was the one that redid the vehicle physics from scratch, and that a lot of Bungie employees were up in arms because the hog felt really bad, and then they said that Sage came through in the end and fixed it up before the Beta.

I'm not sure what the true / full story is, but it still doesn't feel as good as previous Halos. There's a saying - if it ain't broke, don't fucking touch my Halos.
Oh I definitely remember that Vidoc, and I remember thinking to myself, why the hell did he tear down all the 'hog physics if it was fine before (mostly)? Now we have a 'hog that flips if it goes over a different texture patch on the ground.
 

ncsuDuncan

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Apr 9, 2010
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Yeah, I remember one of the Vidocs before the Beta mentioning that Sage was the one that redid the vehicle physics from scratch, and that a lot of Bungie employees were up in arms because the hog felt really bad, and then they said that Sage came through in the end and fixed it up before the Beta.

I'm not sure what the true / full story is, but it still doesn't feel as good as previous Halos. There's a saying - if it ain't broke, don't fucking touch my Halos.
I think late in development they also brought Jaime Griesemer in to help tune up the Reach hog's physics/handling.

We'll never know (for good reason), but I wonder how polarizing Reach design decisions were within the studio. I'm sure bloom et al. were hotly debated. Of course that's a natural part of game development and goes back to the CE pistol, but I wonder if Reach had more dissent than usual.
 

Tawpgun

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Halo's eroding popularity can be pinpointed to six things. The AR, slowed down gameplay, overpowerd vehicles, bad maps/forge, bad playlist management, and armor abilites/equipment. Reach is the nail in the coffin but H3 is what poisoned the brand.
I thought I'd chime in on this.

1. The AR is not killing Halo. It's been in every game as a starting weapon. CE sort of not included since AR starts included the pistol. In Halo 2 we dealt with SMG's and some bullshit dual wielding combos. In Halo 3 we had a staple gun that was used for AR Rushing. In reach we have the AR which is better than its H3 counterpart in terms of damage and range, or at least it feels that way, but there's no bleed through, so it doesn't seem as bullshit as it was in H3. (Shoot 3 AR bullets + beat down anyone?)

I hate AR starts as much as the next guy, but at least we got the Reach pistol, nerfed as it was, to help deal with it. The scrubs need their AR's. And those who don't fall in the scrub category need their AR's because they can't appreciate the intricacy, skill and simple, balanced beauty of precision weapon starts. They need their AR starts to justify the "Weapon Variety" and turn Halo into a Rock Paper Scissors game. BUT AT LEAST ITS NOT BORING OLOLOL

2. I'll give you this. The AA's and thus, the movement speed, inertia, and jump height ruined Reach. Even messing with custom settings, the movement still feels off due to the heaviness of the inertia compared to other games. Players like feeling light on their feet. Its why things like Lightweight and Marathon are such popular perks in CoD. Why everyone wants to be the fast class. They love that agility. Bring that back.

3. *Overpowered Banshee. The rest of the vehicles are fine. Maybe the tank and gauss hog, but the gauss hog isn't on any map and the tank is a tank. I know you HATE vehicles in Halo, but you have to accept they are a part of the game and are more than just transports. Halo 3 had the strongest warthog, but aside from being stuck with a retarded team on Standoff, they weren't that bad.

I'd say bring vehicles to somewhere in between Halo 2 and 3. They should be treated as power items, used to break set ups and push into bases. I know you might disagree, but I <3 BTB and its infantry, vehicle interplay, and Reach ruined it by making the Banshee OP, while allowing the DMR and Sniper to become anti-vehicle weapons.

4. Yup. The maps were pretty bad. 343 needs to test the Halo 4 maps on EVERY GAMETYPE THEY WILL SUPPORT IN MATCHMAKING. If a certain gametype makes the map unbalanced, then don't have that gametype with that map in matchmaking. Note the initial spawns too, some teams have a huge advantage over others ie. Red Team getting rockets on Boardwalk, Elbow Spawning team getting guaranteed OS and a equal shot at Camo on Guardian.

90% of community maps have been terrible. The gray doesn't help, but its not just that. However, I think community maps are a good thing. But perhaps they should stay in a community playlist, and then if some maps are pulling ahead by being the dominant maps, put them into the regular hoppers.

5. Playlists seem to be fine now, despite Anni sort of making a mess of things. It's more of the things included in the playlist, ie. Drop Shields, Evade, AR starts in objective. The playlists have ALWAYS been shit at launch too. Hope they fix that. It seems to take FOREVER to get changes put into place.

6. I'm not opposed to putting in something new into Halo games, but the one rule it should have is to not break any of Halo's golden rules. Among them being that EVERYONE starts out the same. No Loadouts. The other problem AA's AND equipment had was visual indicators. I'd like to know if someone has camo, Armor Lock, sprint etc. But I'm not sure how to do this without resorting to silly auras around players or drastically changing their armor.

Anyway, equipement only suffered from that visual indicator problem. The AA's are all terrible though. They ruin gameplay and maps.
 

op_ivy

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Re: AA's and halo 4

i hope they return. i'd like to see sprint as a default (with old school halo movement intact) with some others as map specific pick ups.

i think jet packing is something that can be good in a halo game, but needs to be limited via a couple, at most, on a map. possibly greatly increase its recharge rate so that it cant be used nearly constantly like it is in reach, but in special cases.

hologram is awesome, cant think of a change, but again, as a pick up.

camo should be an instant use pick up like it used to be.

overshield should return also as an instant use pick up.

armor lock and evade can go to hell.
 

Havok

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Jun 29, 2007
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2. I'll give you this. The AA's and thus, the movement speed, inertia, and jump height ruined Reach.
I might be reading this wrong, but blaming the armor abilities for slow movement speed, jump height, and inertia is just ignoring the designers' stated intent to make a more grounded game. Sprint might have influenced the movement speed, but given that Halo 3 was sloth-speed, I doubt that a no-AA Reach would have been any faster. The most viable argument is that jump height was low to make the jetpack more appealing, but I would assume it was more a response to Halo 3's moon jumps and again, creating a grounded experience (for better or worse). I don't see how inertia enters into the argument. It totally sucks, sure. I don't like most of the armor abilities - I think they focus on the wrong ones, much like they did with equipment in 3, but the base traits were probably going to be pretty similar either way, just looking at the trend.

To be clear, I dont think that any of these things are good decisions. But assigning causality to one thing is a little silly.
 

Falagard

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I think for Halo 4 that 343 can have new armor abilities or whatever they want in campaign, but they should go back to simple core gameplay for multiplayer.

1. No loadouts. Everyone should start the same. Maps shouldn't need to worry about everyone having Jetpacks, and should be able to be designed for traditional movement.

2. If we need to have armor abilities they should be pick ups only, and there should be some that are one time use only, or have a cooldown that lasts so long as to make it essentially one time use. This basically makes some armor abilities the same as equipment. For example, I like the bubble shield equipment mechanic from Halo 3, but hate the bubble shield AA. I like the Hologram AA. Armor Lock needs to die completely.

3. The Jetpack should be a vehicle, that when you kill someone you can take from them. It can be included on a map, or excluded by vehicle placement.

4. Movement speed needs to feel less sluggish, and jumps should be higher, etc. Essentially a combination of Halo 2 and 3.

5. The precision weapon, either DMR, BR or something new can't have a 3X scope.

That's it for now.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
I want bubble shields. I don't care if they're broken, put'em in campaign only or something. After that starry night trailer, I never want another Halo without bubble shields.
 

op_ivy

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I think for Halo 4 that 343 can have new armor abilities or whatever they want in campaign, but they should go back to simple core gameplay for multiplayer.

1. No loadouts. Everyone should start the same. Maps shouldn't need to worry about everyone having Jetpacks, and should be able to be designed for traditional movement.

2. If we need to have armor abilities they should be pick ups only, and there should be some that are one time use only, or have a cooldown that lasts so long as to make it essentially one time use. This basically makes some armor abilities the same as equipment. For example, I like the bubble shield equipment mechanic from Halo 3, but hate the bubble shield AA. I like the Hologram AA. Armor Lock needs to die completely.

3. The Jetpack should be a vehicle, that when you kill someone you can take from them. It can be included on a map, or excluded by vehicle placement.

4. Movement speed needs to feel less sluggish, and jumps should be higher, etc. Essentially a combination of Halo 2 and 3.

5. The precision weapon, either DMR, BR or something new can't have a 3X scope.

That's it for now.
i like the idea of single use AA too, and would love to have bubbleshield return. maybe a radar jammer, and power drainer too!

and yeah, when you die, any picked up AA (that hasnt been used up) would drop for others to nab.
 

ncsuDuncan

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I want bubble shields. I don't care if they're broken, put'em in campaign only or something. After that starry night trailer, I never want another Halo without bubble shields.
I still think the Bubble Shield should work like a one-way mirror like the base ceilings in Snowbound (but in reverse).
- If you're inside the bubble you're protected by the shield and get health regen, but you can't see out.
- If you're outside the bubble you CAN see into it (and through it).

Should make it harder to camp inside the bubble with close-quarters weapons (sword/shotgun/flag) and make those annoying shield-door strategies more difficult to use (i.e. popping in and out).
 

op_ivy

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I still think the Bubble Shield should work like a one-way mirror like the base ceilings in Snowbound (but in reverse).
- If you're inside the bubble you're protected by the shield and get health regen, but you can't see out.
- If you're outside the bubble you CAN see into it (and through it).

Should make it harder to camp inside the bubble with close-quarters weapons (sword/shotgun/flag) and make those annoying shield-door strategies more difficult to use (i.e. popping in and out).
it would be pretty easy to run in for an assassination/back slap that way
 
Feb 28, 2011
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I still think the Bubble Shield should work like a one-way mirror like the base ceilings in Snowbound (but in reverse).
- If you're inside the bubble you're protected by the shield and get health regen, but you can't see out.
- If you're outside the bubble you CAN see into it (and through it).

Should make it harder to camp inside the bubble with close-quarters weapons (sword/shotgun/flag) and make those annoying shield-door strategies more difficult to use (i.e. popping in and out).
Cool idea but the motion tracker and the fact that your reticle turns read when aimed at an enemy would make it just as bad as the current BubS.
 

ElzarTheBam

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Feb 27, 2011
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I still think the Bubble Shield should work like a one-way mirror like the base ceilings in Snowbound (but in reverse).
- If you're inside the bubble you're protected by the shield and get health regen, but you can't see out.
- If you're outside the bubble you CAN see into it (and through it).


Should make it harder to camp inside the bubble with close-quarters weapons (sword/shotgun/flag) and make those annoying shield-door strategies more difficult to use (i.e. popping in and out).
I like this idea a lot, but than you have to think about radar and how that affects your idea.