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Opinion Handsome men and beautiful women in video games are a good thing and you shouldn't feel ashamed for supporting it

Jan 2, 2021
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Schrier is that you?
 

Keihart

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You have to love the comedy in obliviousness to personal bias sometime, every character with a touch of tomboy would be called a SJW character today, yet, everyone and their mother loved tomboys in fiction since at least the 1800's and it's nothing really new, yet, since there are culture wars that people twist themselves over in social media makes them see their devil everywhere.

I'm pretty sure some decisions are made in games having the influence of some committee, but from that to make the jump to say that every ugly, manly or boyish woman in fiction it's the result of some cultural/political agenda it's a really big fucking leap.
 
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VysePSU

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My issue comes from when some journalists or industry figures start shaming the artist behind the designs just because it’s doesn’t follow “western culture”.
Well, it was Neil Druckmann who said during a panel that he found the designs for Quiet, Cortana, and Ayane problematic. "These characters are role models, whether we like to admit it or not". So he implies that artists everywhere have a responsibility to not have their women show any skin or curves because it might warp a little girl's mind of which the games in question aren't even marketed to. And the thing is, I liked the original The Last of Us but I still think he should show a little more respect to other game developers' creations; just because your game was a success doesn't mean you get to shit on the legacy of other longer-running established IPs.
 

kuncol02

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Had that game being woke, the game would have featured two ugly masculine buff females, and shown how all men are stupid incompetent or evil. While being filled with a statistically unusual number of lgbt, which all happen to be virtuous hollow characters with no real description bar their sexuality. It might also have taken racism against whites, and painted religious people in a bad light too, for the full 'woke' experience.
I'm not sure, but I fell like i saw that game somewhere.
 
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IntentionalPun

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yea theres a reason most successful actors and actresses are hot..because it's what we wana see, rather than the fat ugly pigs you see in the supermarket...or my bedroom ;)
This is kinda bullshit though.. I really have to wonder how much media anyone consumes who genuinely thinks this.

Particularly for famous men; a lot of them are ugly as shit. And there are some fairly ugly dudes who get to play "hot guys" too.. this is only just now starting to happen for women, as they are more involved in writing and production.
 
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This is kinda bullshit though.. I really have to wonder how much media anyone consumes who genuinely thinks this.

Particularly for famous men; a lot of them are ugly as shit. And there are some fairly ugly dudes who get to play "hot guys" too.. this is only just now starting to happen for women, as they are more involved in writing and production.
I'm not sure, at worse I've seen average looking dudes in movies and tv. But to say ugly as shit?
 

IntentionalPun

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I'm not sure, at worse I've seen average looking dudes in movies and tv. But to say ugly as shit?
Just do a google image search for "character actor." It's basically a term meant for actors who don't rely on looks/charisma. AKA non-leading men. AKA ugly dudes lol (and a few women), who are also often not American (brits, aussies, SA):


They aren't all ugly, but many outright are.. balding, not fit, weird facial features.. really old and wrinkly, and this heavily favors males in the industry.

Hollywood blockbuster movies are only a tiny fraction of all media. They do tend to lean towards unrealistic looks expectations on both sides of the coin, but particularly in television and more adult drama films there's a wide assortment...

And honestly the same is true for games. Yes there are lots of buff dudes in games, but there's plenty of normal ass looking dudes, nerdy dudes, pudgy plumbers and the like historically. It's only recently any game has had an ugly woman in it and everyone freaks out, meanwhile ugly dudes like Trevor from GTA or.. nerdy looking dudes like Gordon Freeman, or Mario and Luigi.. are iconic.
 
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Fredrik

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Well, it was Neil Druckmann who said during a panel that he found the designs for Quiet, Cortana, and Ayane problematic. "These characters are role models, whether we like to admit it or not". So he implies that artists everywhere have a responsibility to not have their women show any skin or curves because it might warp a little girl's mind of which the games in question aren't even marketed to. And the thing is, I liked the original The Last of Us but I still think he should show a little more respect to other game developers' creations; just because your game was a success doesn't mean you get to shit on the legacy of other longer-running established IPs.
Ah yes lets the person who turned an innocent teenage girl into a vengeous serial killer set the bar for problematic role models...

The elephant has already wrecked that whole room as far as I’m concerned. As a parent I rather let my kids look at bouncing tits and round asses all day than let them go near games where all you do is kill people.
 

Bo_Hazem

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Yeah, I mean, if a woman is gonna be able to cleave dudes with axes and such shes gonna have muscles. Thats how it works.

Yes, and in Tomb Raider you usually don't need that, I think? But slightly "sportier" woman would fit more because she looks like an office woman. Also I can't concentrate when Lara comes out of water and climbs a ladder. :lollipop_anxious_sweat:

Not as convincing as a tough man. So maybe they shouldn't try to compete on strength, but go for quick, mobile, sneaky and athletic.

100% that, just like why I was ok with Aloy on HZD as she got crushed easily by that man chasing her. I actually even have problem with those Japanese games where you see a pansy little boy holding a massive sword/axe that even a huge brute would struggle to handle.
 
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kuncol02

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The probably want an older character as she is an astronaut. It might also have to do with the story as well. They probably didn't want to go in kiddy Gundam we have a 15 year old in a mech spaceship thing lol
There is huge spectrum of better possibilities between 15 year old kid and school principal preparing to retirement.
 
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NeoIkaruGAF

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Heh.. I get a kick out of the "Let the devs do what they want, but stop complaining about hotties and harassing devs for putting them in games."

In a thread complaining uggos in games.. on a forum full of at least monthly if not more threads complaining about uggos in games.. and as of late, there has been plenty of harassing of devs for this as well (Naughty Dog.)

The coin flips both ways here; if you support devs having the artistic freedom and don't like people complaining.. well
I feel called out here, and if so, very convenient rephrasing of what I wrote.

If you harass devs for, say, making Tifa’s chest a little less egregious in FF7R than in the original, you’re an idiot. Full stop. There may be a problem when the redesign of a character is blatantly influenced by the fear of REE-like dumbasses making a big fuss out of it, though.

The complaints about making in-game models less attractive than their real-life models are legit though, because they’re supported by sheer visual evidence. If someone makes this bigger than it is and actually refuses to play a game because of this, that someone should sort out their priorities. But, when it’s fact, it’s fact. There may be artistic reasons behind it, of course, but when it becomes a trend in games coming from big devs... well.

I don’t really care about devs putting “uggos” in their games, that’s why you won’t find me screaming my head off in those threads. Which, btw, may often be exaggerated in their premises, but there’s many level-headed people participating in them.

Bottom line:
- you like character? Don’t demand, nor expect, that all characters should be like that.
- you don’t like character? Say so. Don’t be a dick about it.
- character is attractive? Don’t shame the character.
- character is ugly? Don’t shun the game before you’ve played it because of it.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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I don't play games for handsome men and beautiful women though, and we can already see people giving or withholding their money to/from developers who do or don't give in to "the SJW agenda", so in practical terms it just becomes another version of the same thing: an overfocus on meaningless facets of a videogame for virtue points.
 
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IntentionalPun

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I feel called out here, and if so, very convenient rephrasing of what I wrote.

No it definitely wasn't you first off.

But yeah sorry for the vague call out, I dislike doing that, but didn't have time to go back and find the post I was referring to.. but just checked and it was one on the first page, and not from you.

The complaints about making in-game models less attractive than their real-life models are legit though, because they’re supported by sheer visual evidence. If someone makes this bigger than it is and actually refuses to play a game because of this, that someone should sort out their priorities. But, when it’s fact, it’s fact. There may be artistic reasons behind it, of course, but when it becomes a trend in games coming from big devs... well.

But why is this a legit complaint though?

I have never in my entire gaming life ever thought about the fact a real life model may have been used for a design, or what they look like, or how they differ from a game character.. that's just bizarre to me. The only person who should care is the model themselves, and whether it bothers them personally.

But... the models for game characters aren't some thing that is often advertised. It's not on the box, or prominently displayed inside of the game.. or really often mentioned in any sort of media. Like maybe one article somewhere, or a credit somewhere..

To be frank, total nerds dig this stuff up to parade around game forums to complain that their game character isn't as hot as they want them to be.

The Control lady did some media stuff.... but she also has a super prominent chin lol.. that was such a dumb complaint either way.

TLDR: You don't sound level-headed to me here whatsoever.
 
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mckmas8808

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You have to love the comedy in obliviousness to personal bias sometime, every character with a touch of tomboy would be called a SJW character today, yet, everyone and their mother loved tomboys in fiction since at least the 1800's and it's nothing really new, yet, since there are culture wars that people twist themselves over in social media makes them see their devil everywhere.

I'm pretty sure some decisions are made in games having the influence of some committee, but from that to make the jump to say that every ugly, manly or boyish woman in fiction it's the result of some cultural/political agenda it's a really big fucking leap.

Some of these people are blind and ignorant.
 
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Majukun

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They are not a good thing now a bad thing, they are just marketing. They help nothing other than sales, they damage nothing other than people that think that everything is a black or white statement.
 

Halo is Dead

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I wasn't say Mister Wolf Mister Wolf "Needs" it. I'm talking specifically to the gamers that say "screw that game I'm not playing it because the main character is ugly". Those people are sickos to me.
Not sure why you quoted him then. You are talking about a very small minority. It's their loss if they don't want to potentially play a good game for that reason.
 

VysePSU

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Ah yes lets the person who turned an innocent teenage girl into a vengeous serial killer set the bar for problematic role models...

The elephant has already wrecked that whole room as far as I’m concerned. As a parent I rather let my kids look at bouncing tits and round asses all day than let them go near games where all you do is kill people.
That's what I'm saying, he is an insufferable moron. It seems like he let the critical success of his new IP go to his head.

There is huge spectrum of better possibilities between 15 year old kid and school principal preparing to retirement.
Exactly. Such as a middle-aged protagonist. Always dislike it when someone thinks that just because you don't like something it means you want the complete opposite, when in reality people can enjoy a little of both and are able to meet you halfway.
 
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D.Final

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It's a known fact that handsome men and beautiful women are part of the real world. They are not exclusive to Hollywood movies, television, and video games. But just as well there are also ugly or weird, if not normal looking people (the so-called everyman) and we shouldn't forget this. That said, I feel that a more realistic video game means we will continue to see attractive men and beautiful women featured in them (and in most cases playing as them) and often the traditionally less attractive characters will be relegated to the background. I think the main reason for this is obviously because attractive people catch our eye and so we remember them a little more if you go by just their appearance alone. Certainly there are women who play a video game and maybe daydream about being rescued by Leon S. Kennedy or Chris Redfield with his boulder biceps and can you really blame them? No. So why then is it that some of you talk down to your fellow gamers for wanting to see and play as attractive women in video games? What about the guy who enjoys playing an RPG as a female character and wants to make them look beautiful? There's nothing wrong with that.

Let me put it like this, if you were to create or commission a talented game developer to create your video game and you already know in your head or on paper what the characters should look like, isn't it safe to say they would likely be good looking characters? I'm not saying the virtual women would necessarily have big breasts or big hips or long glamorous hair but I'm sure there are women who enjoy playing as beautiful female characters. I mean, I don't think women are so different if you really think about it - both genders appreciate traditionally attractive looking characters, be it from movies, video games, television and books. We are not so different.

I don't see the problem

If I'm a creative character designer, and the choice for the design can be judged negatively by the mass media reception or the politically correct approach, I will never let this change my design of what I've created just for making something more comfortable for the actual ages.
(otherwise, I would never even start the work, in the first place)
 

Genx3

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If the lead character is female she better be sexy or I simply won't play it.
So that's minus -1 sale from me.
 

JeloSWE

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Well, it was Neil Druckmann.... So he implies that artists everywhere have a responsibility to not have their women show any skin or curves because it might warp a little girl's mind of which the games in question aren't even marketed to.
I mean, there are real curvy women too, and many who like to show skin. If he wants to make games with non sexualized women, that is up to him. But I'd hate for games with idealized and exaggerated characters to go away, I love characters and actors like He-man or Arnold since I was a little kid, and I didn't grow up with a warped sens of mind. Trying to stop the portrayal of sexy or cool characters is so sad, just make your own prude media then and let other enjoy what they enjoy.

I should add that I personally can't stand blatant gratuitous fan service heavy anime, it really ruins the moment of what ever story is going on, well if there is one any way, so I simply drop those shows but I'm okay with them existing, they just aren't for me.
 
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EDMIX

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I love characters and actors like He-man

Thats nice but I don't think thats suddenly going away, for fuck sakes Kratos exist by the very same publisher.

Trying to stop the portrayal of sexy or cool characters is so sad

? Who is stopping anything? If you want to make a game with a He-Man like character right now, Neil is stopping you? He now runs all of gaming or? This is the same Anita argument all over again folks. Someone choosing to do something doesn't magically stop you from making your own game or stop anyone else from doing things differently, simply means the games they make they don't wish to have their characters look like that.

As in, Disney having a look or style is not stopping Anime from Japan, thats not stopping folks that look like teen Models on the CW, that is not stopping how actors are chosen for an AMC or HBO show, etc.

just make your own prude media

That sounds like exactly what they are doing though.....do you not understand that you could do the same or?

and let other enjoy what they enjoy.
Who is stopping you from enjoying something?

So I don't see anyone stopping anyone from doing anything or suddenly having some ownership over the whole medium.

I'll say the same fucking thing I said regarding the whole Sarkeesian situation.

They are free to make their game the way they feel like it, you are free to make your own game if you disagree.
 

EDMIX

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Tell that to Neil Druckmann and half of Twitter who have a problem seeing traditionally attractive characters.
When did his studio stop another studio from making characters?

To my understanding, his view is based on what he wants under that studio. I don't recall him saying some other game can't have "attractive characters"
 

Fredrik

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If I'm a creative character designer, and the choice for the design can be judged negatively by the mass media reception or the politically correct approach, I will never let this change my design of what I've created just for making something more comfortable for the actual ages.
(otherwise, I would never even start the work, in the first place)
Yeah that’s usually how something becomes boring, it’s more likely I would exaggerate the design. If someone doesn’t like the game I would say: It’s fine, don’t buy it.
What’s the big deal? There are other games, buy those and stop moaning about my game. I ignore games all the time for all kinds of reasons but I don’t go to their twitter page and cry or shout about why I’m not buying the game, I just ignore it and go on with my life.
 
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EDMIX

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You were under the impression he didn't say we shouldn't see attractive characters. I showed you a video where he thinks it is a problem in all of entertainment.

Yet he is free to think that.

That isn't stopping another fucking studio.


Like I said before. (and many times before that)

I'll say the same fucking thing I said regarding the whole Sarkeesian situation.

They are free to make their game the way they feel like it, you are free to make your own game if you disagree.
 
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VysePSU

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Yet he is free to think that.

That isn't stopping another fucking studio.
As long as we can continue to appreciate attractive character designs in all of entertainment, and I made it a point in the OP that we will continue to see them front and center in video games, that's all I'm asking. Not sure why you find that so funny and why you feel the need to call your fellow gamers immature just because they continue to like what you don't.
 
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EDMIX

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As long as we can continue to appreciate attractive character designs in all of entertainment, and I made it a point in the OP that we will continue to see them front and center in video games, that's all I'm asking. Not sure why you find that so funny and why you feel the need to call your fellow gamers immature just because they continue to like what you don't.

When did I say I didn't like it? You can appreciate what ever you want.

Someone else making something different isn't an attack on you liking something else, continue to like something else.... That would be like saying we need to see Anime looking folks "front and center in Animation, thats all I'm asking" as if Disney looking shit is made by murdering 100 Anime's in some factory or something. It tries to force this either or concept as if one being made is killing the other or something as if they stole your rights to make your own game.
 
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VysePSU

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When did I say I didn't like it? You can appreciate what ever you want.

Someone else making something different isn't an attack on you liking something else, continue to like something else.... That would be like saying we need to see Anime looking folks "front and center in Animation, thats all I'm asking" as if Disney looking shit is made by murdering 100 Anime's in some factory or something. It tries to force this either or concept as if one being made is killing the other or something as if they stole your rights to make your own game.
You said your issue with attractive characters is that it forces gaming to be a "fake ass commercial for Neutrogena" that completely disregards less attractive characters. But what I'm saying is that those less attractive characters aren't being ignored as they're still in the game. What with games being more like movies you're still going to see most games feature attractive characters and I think that's good. Just that there's always a couple users who respond with "Go watch porn if you want to see a beautiful woman", and I don't mean in response with anime style games but any western developed game where you see some cleavage or a pretty face.
 
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EDMIX

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You said your issue with attractive characters is that it forces gaming to be a "fake ass commercial for Neutrogena

Nope. I said my issue with folks trying to FORCE IT IS.

My issue with this shit is its trying to force gaming to be this fake ass commercial for Neutrogena

All different styles can exist.


Its not an either or.
 
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JerryinSoCal

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I like when the characters are pleasing to look at, not in a sexual way but I just think it makes it more pleasant. I would ask anyone who complains about it what kind of character they create in games that offer the option? do they create someone they like the look of or someone they purposely find unappealing just so they don't feel bad about themselves?
 
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VysePSU

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Nope. I said my issue with folks trying to FORCE IT IS.

All different styles can exist.

Its not an either or.
So you don't prefer attractive character designs over less attractive? Because if you do like the former, that's fine. My whole argument is that there's nothing wrong with it. What is funny about that?
 
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EDMIX

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I like when the characters are pleasing to look at, not in a sexual way but I just think it makes it more pleasant. I would ask anyone who complains about it what kind of character they create in games that offer the option? do they create someone they like the look of or someone they purposely find unappealing just so they don't feel bad about themselves?

As an artist myself even though I don't create anything inside the gaming space the thought process is essentially still the same I'm basically creating based on what it is I'm trying to conceptually achieve.

if I'm creating a character that's supposed to be repulsive like an older character that sort of looks like Columbo from the 1970s it is with that intent that I'm creating the character to look that way , that is absolutely nothing to do with myself even remotely it is simply saying I'm fucking creating something based on the idea of what I believe someone like that would look like.

I'm creating based on the idea in my head of what I believe that character would look like. Sometimes that character is going to be attractive with the intent that they are supposed to be, other times I'm simply making someone based on random people that I see. So if you see me make a reference to a Walmart parking lot many times it's because that's where I actually drew lots of my studies in college for life drawing. I like the randomness and I enjoy that my work simply looks like people you would regularly see in the United States of America vs a Revlon commercial lol

So not all artists are creating based on creating something that looks subjectively pleasing in fact many times I'm creating to simply make something look human.

Whether or not you might think that character is attractive may not matter to me unless I had some intent that I wanted them to seem that way or something. So as an artist I don't even fully understand where this idea comes from that someone is creating something out of self hate to not feel bad or something weird like that lol I'm sure someone probably does, but I don't.
 
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