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Has any other game being dismissed in the past and became as appreciated today as DOOM 64?

nkarafo

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When DOOM 64 was released, nobody cared. N64 owners were too busy being impressed with the fully 3D graphics of Turok and the upcoming Goldeneye.

Magazines gave it mediocre reviews. I remember C&VG magazine not giving it a full page review at all, they only gave it a "mini" review with a 3 out of 5 score declaring it's "not really DOOM" because it lacked the shotgun reload animations. That was the sole reason i didn't buy this game back then. I loved the reload animations.

N64 magazine also gave it a "meh" review, pointing out it's biggest flaw was simply not being "next gen" enough. They were too busy being impressed with Turok and Goldeneye.

Yet now, DOOM 64 is considered one of the better aged N64 games. People now consider it as the real DOOM 3 game, which completely dismisses the "it's not really DOOM" quote the biggest game magazine in the UK at the time made. And at the same time Turok and Goldeneye are getting more flack as they age. Goldeneye might as well be the complete opposite of DOOM 64 in that it was considered a masterpiece at the time and now it gets mentioned in threads like "Good past games you can't stand playing anymore".

Now there are a ton of games that are considered as "not having aged well". It's the most common thing about old games. There are also a lot of games that were considered good back then and are still good now. But DOOM 64 seems to be one of these rare instances of a game that was considered mediocre or even bad in the past but now it's one of the most appreciated N64 games, to the point i can hardly find anyone saying bad things about it.

Can't recall any other game being treated this way but i'm sure i must be forgetting a few.
 
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jigglet

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Earthbound? Never played it, but there are so many people talking about this game being ignored at launch and then later to be considered a masterpiece.

that was ignored not considered crap
 

Eevee86

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SCB3

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I can think of a few. Demon's Souls, Gothic, Deadly Premonition, Vampire the Masquerade, God Hand, Pathologic...

Demons Souls yes

  • Gothic is getting a remake so yea maybe, but they've been remaking Gothic for over 20 yesrs in different games now
  • Deadly Premonition and God Hand got Screwed by IGN's shitty reviews
  • Pathelogic needed the sequel, the original game was really obscure and somewhat tedious to play
 
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Panajev2001a

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Demons Souls yes

  • Gothic is getting a remake so yea maybe, but they've been remaking Gothic for over 20 yesrs in different games now
  • Deadly Premonition and God Hand got Screwed by IGN's shitty reviews
  • Pathelogic needed the sequel, the original game was really obscure and somewhat tedious to play

Try DP on PC with mods or XSX... you will miss the PS3 Director’s Cut QoL improvements, but performance is smooth (99% of the time) and loading times are super short... a game changer for me.
 

Yumi

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I think Demon Souls has the wider initially dismissed to later appreciated ratio than Doom 64.

Earthbound was already mentioned above. Only other one I can think of is Planescape: Torment maybe.
 
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Sub Boss

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I thought it had good reviews at least, the jump to 60+fps and popularity of DOOM 2016 probably helped👌.
 

Sub Boss

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I think Demon Souls has the wider initially dismissed to later appreciated ratio than Doom 64.

Earthbound was already mentioned above. Only other one I can think of is Planescape: Torment maybe.
No dude Demons Souls had amazing reviews back in the day, it was dismissed by Sony at first but quickly became a cult classic(and now just a classic)

It has an 89 on Metacritic PS3, amazing score
 
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MiguelItUp

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There are quite a few games that went on to get appreciated more so as time went on, but I definitely think DOOM 64's story is very different compared to those.

The game was always SO underrated. I bought the game at launch on 64 and I remember telling friends I had it at the time and they thought I was lying or that it wasn't good. We were kids then, sure, but still! I was looking forward to it like crazy as I was always a fan of DOOM, but didn't have a computer at home until I was 13/14 years old. So I bought the PS version of DOOM and DOOM 64 as it was the only DOOM experiences I could have then. Another friend of mine had it on Jaguar, and I had a Jaguar as well so I borrowed it from him from time to time. :)

The SNES version? I rented it and was like, "This.... isn't great." Lmao.

Back on DOOM 64...

It wasn't until decades later where more and more people talked about it, and it made me incredibly happy.

Then seeing them rerelease it with Eternal and then of course tie it all together with the DOOM lore made it get a WHOLE lot more love, which was/is really damn cool.
 

PhaseJump

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When DOOM 64 was released, nobody cared. N64 owners were too busy being impressed with the fully 3D graphics of Turok and the upcoming Goldeneye.

Magazines gave it mediocre reviews. I remember C&VG magazine not giving it a full page review at all, they only gave it a "mini" review with a 3 out of 5 score declaring it's "not really DOOM" because it lacked the shotgun reload animations. That was the sole reason i didn't buy this game back then. I loved the reload animations.

N64 magazine also gave it a "meh" review, pointing out it's biggest flaw was simply not being "next gen" enough. They were too busy being impressed with Turok and Goldeneye.

Yet now, DOOM 64 is considered one of the better aged N64 games. People now consider it as the real DOOM 3 game, which completely dismisses the "it's not really DOOM" quote the biggest game magazine in the UK at the time made. And at the same time Turok and Goldeneye are getting more flack as they age. Goldeneye might as well be the complete opposite of DOOM 64 in that it was considered a masterpiece at the time and now it gets mentioned in threads like "Good past games you can't stand playing anymore".

Now there are a ton of games that are considered as "not having aged well". It's the most common thing about old games. There are also a lot of games that were considered good back then and are still good now. But DOOM 64 seems to be one of these rare instances of a game that was considered mediocre or even bad in the past but now it's one of the most appreciated N64 games, to the point i can hardly find anyone saying bad things about it.

Can't recall any other game being treated this way but i'm sure i must be forgetting a few.

Doom 64 was a big deal when it came out, and it made the cover of Nintendo Power. I have no fucking clue what planet you come from or the drugs you smoke there.
 
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MiguelItUp

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Doom 64 was a big deal when it came out, and it made the cover of Nintendo Power. I have no fucking clue what planet you come from or the drugs you smoke there.
That was honestly the "biggest" thing for it. Other than that, there really wasn't a whole lot going on. Well, and to be fair, a number of games made it to the cover of Nintendo Power that weren't gigantic successes by any means.
 
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It is definitely up there.

I played at release and thought it was some shitty Doom knockoff.

I played again around ~2001 and realized it is actually incredibly well done and is easily the real Doom 3. It is honestly more Doom than Doom 2016, though I did enjoy 2016.

Doom 64 was a big deal when it came out, and it made the cover of Nintendo Power. I have no fucking clue what planet you come from or the drugs you smoke there.
Nintendo Power is an advertisement disguised as a magazine, of course an exclusive game will get a cover. The game was not universally critically acclaimed (Jeff Gerstman for instance thought it was shit), and commercially it wasn't big either.
 

PhaseJump

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Doom was one of the greatest games of all time. Doom 64 was different but it was popular because of the name alone. The N64 wasn't a hugely successful platform to begin with but everyone I know who had it liked the Doom and Quake ports it got. The game wasn't the next big thing in the "Doom clone" genre. That would be Half Life, Goldeneye, eventually Halo.
 

carlosrox

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Anyone who dismissed it woulda been a dumb ass.

It was a masterpiece since the day it came out. By coincidence I was playing it last night on Switch. The soundtrack never ceases to be incredible.

Horror Doom is best Doom. Time for the series to go back down that direction again, or at least more of a blend between 2016 and 3.
 

Rock And Roll

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I remember renting it when it came out and being 8 years old, not impressed and just went back to playing golden eye with my friends. Then last year when we got it for free with our Doom Eternal preorder, I couldn't believe how good the game was. I was let down by Eternal but I honestly think 64 was a better game anyway. I think it's one of the top games on the N64 and OP is right about how it was underappreciated then by both critics and fans but has been recognized as great decades later.

There's been a lot of underrated games in here that have been mentioned, but the vast majority of them seemed to have no critical acclaim but the gamers ended up loving it and spreading the word. I don't recall that type of fanfare for Doom64 up until a couple years ago.
 
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nkarafo

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Doom 64 was a big deal when it came out, and it made the cover of Nintendo Power. I have no fucking clue what planet you come from or the drugs you smoke there.
Any game would make the Nintendo Power cover. This was true for other Nintendo exclusive mags as well at the time. N64 didn't have that many games anyway, especially the first couple of years.

But it's true that some games did have better reviews in US. DOOM64 did get a good review in GamePro iirc. Cruisin USA is the funniest one for me. In UK it was the worst N64 game for a while but in US it was considered good. A lot of Midway games like some janky fighters were received much better in US.
 
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Tranquil

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Doom 64 was an awesome game until the final boss. What joke, I had to save scum just to beat it.
 

Stuart360

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I owned Doom 64, and i dont remember it getting bad reviews.
Also that review doesnt make sense, about the game not being 'next gen enough', look at the ports of Doom on PS1 and Saturn, while DOOM64 blew away PC DOOM graphics wise (except resolution obviously).
 

nkarafo

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Anyone who dismissed it woulda been a dumb ass.

It was a masterpiece since the day it came out. By coincidence I was playing it last night on Switch. The soundtrack never ceases to be incredible.

Horror Doom is best Doom. Time for the series to go back down that direction again, or at least more of a blend between 2016 and 3.
Soundtrack is basically the same as the PS1 port. I agree about the horror atmosphere but DOOM 3 also had that and i don't think it's a "proper" DOOM game either.

What makes DOOM 64 a proper DOOM game is the amazing level design. Maps are structured in a similar way as the original DOOM/DOOM2, Quake, etc, with their labyrinthine layouts and complex, weird and unrealistic architecture. In fact, DOOM64 has even more complex levels than the first two DOOM games as the N64 was has a far more powerful CPU than a regular 486 PC or the other consoles. So while the other console ports had to cut down the levels from the PC version, the N64 version expanded on them. Some of the N64 maps remind me of modern DOOM Wads.
 
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nkarafo

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I owned Doom 64, and i dont remember it getting bad reviews.
Also that review doesnt make sense, about the game not being 'next gen enough', look at the ports of Doom on PS1 and Saturn, while DOOM64 blew away PC DOOM graphics wise (except resolution obviously).
It did make sense in that it was using the same "old" DOOM engine in 1997 while the Quake engine was all the rage. And fully 3D games that were even more advanced than Quake 1 (like Turok and Goldeneye) were already a thing for the console.
 

Stuart360

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It did make sense in that it was using the same "old" DOOM engine in 1997 while the Quake engine was all the rage. And fully 3D games that were even more advanced than Quake 1 (like Turok and Goldeneye) were already a thing for the console.
When they first talked about DOOM64, they did say they were going to do fully 3D enemies. Obviously after testing, the N64 just didnt have the power to push that many fully 3D enemies.
Also it wasnt running on the DOOM engine. DOOM64 has fully 3D worlds, coloured lighting, and filtered textures, all things that the DOOM engine couldnt do at the time.
 
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nkarafo

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When they first talked about DOOM64, they did say they were going to do fully 3D enemies. Obviously after testing, the N64 just didnt have the power to push that many fully 3D enemies.
Also it wasnt running on the DOOM engine. DOOM64 has fully 3D worlds, coloured lighting, and filtered textures, all things that the DOOM engine couldnt do at the time.
Where do you get your information? I hope not from the magazines at the time.

DOOM 64 uses a modified version of the DOOM engine. It's not fully 3D and you can't look up+down. If you did, the graphics would be distorted like in Duke Nukem 3D.
 
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Stuart360

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Where do you get your information? I hope not from the magazines at the time.

DOOM 64 uses a modified version of the DOOM engine. It's not fully 3D and you can't look up+down. If you did, the graphics would be distorted like in Duke Nukem 3D.
Well you cant look up or down as its Doom. I'm sure John in the Doom DF Retro said about it being its own engine,. I saw or read it somewhere.
The game DOES use polygons for the environment though,

EDIT. The environments were built from 3-dimensional polygon models, and the enemies were created by pre-rendering sprites with SGI workstations
 
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nkarafo

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Well you cant look up or down as its Doom. I'm sure John in the Doom DF Retro said about it being its own engine,. I saw or read it somewhere.
The game DOES use polygons for the environment though,


In this forum there is an older discussion about this. There is some information about a programmer who worked on it, commenting on the tricks DOOM64 used to fake 3D. But the links are dead.

DOOM 64 has the same, perfectly vertical walls of older DOOM games, with no slopes. If it was fully 3D, it wouldn't have to follow that rule.
 
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Stuart360

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In this forum there is an older discussion about this. There is some information about the DOOM EX author (the modern PC port of DOOM 64) commenting on the tricks DOOM64 used to fake 3D. But the links are dead.

DOOM 64 has the same, perfectly vertical walls of older DOOM games, with no slopes. If it was fully 3D, it wouldn't have to follow that rule.
You can tell its ploygons though just at looking at the environments when playing. Everything is so solid and deep looking. You play old DOOM (from that time), you can see some of the 2D effect when you go right up to wallls. Also at that time, i'm pretty sure you couldnt do filtered textures in the orig DOOM engine. I know you can now with the various mod ports.
 

Chiggs

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Doom 64 was a big deal when it came out, and it made the cover of Nintendo Power. I have no fucking clue what planet you come from or the drugs you smoke there.

It was generally disliked by reviewers when it launched, because they were so in love with Turok. Case in point, Jeff Gerstmann:


Uninitiated or casual Doom players may get a kick out of Doom 64 - the graphics are fairly impressive and the game still has a spooky atmosphere. But anyone who has downloaded custom WADs for the PC with new levels, graphics, and sounds has already seen greater things from the world of Doom. Sigh... yet another mediocre N64 game.

And him saying this about the Unmaker which, when fully upgraded, is the most dominant weapon in ANY Doom game, is just :messenger_grinning_sweat:

Thrown in (seemingly) as an afterthought is a new weapon, the laser, which proves to be next to useless and is nowhere near as cool as it's made out to be.
 
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nkarafo

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You can tell its ploygons though just at looking at the environments when playing. Everything is so solid and deep looking. You play old DOOM (from that time), you can see some of the 2D effect when you go right up to wallls. Also at that time, i'm pretty sure you couldnt do filtered textures in the orig DOOM engine. I know you can now with the various mod ports.
Solid looking 3D graphics is a N64 thing. It uses that perspective correction and filtering rather well.

Like i said, it's a modified DOOM engine. Not 100% vanilla. It does have some improvements. But the level design/sectors/map is the same 2D layout as the old DOOM games.

Point is, it doesn't really matter how it works. What matters is that, at the time, not being able to look up+down and the sprites were considered archaic. After playing Turok, with it's smooth, motion captured, polygonal enemies, playing DOOM64 did feel like a throwback. I still disagree with the notion that just because it's 2D it must be worse, DOOM64 has many more enemies on screen than Turok. And a much more complex level design. They are two completely different design philosophies. But the press at the time were too focused on games having more advanced 3D graphics.
 

Aenima

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Among Us?

Didnt this game released like 2 years ago and no one gave a crap about it? And now became a viral thing.
 

nkarafo

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Doom 64 was a big deal when it came out, and it made the cover of Nintendo Power. I have no fucking clue what planet you come from or the drugs you smoke there.

Here's how DOOM 64 was received in UK and most of Europe:



The "it's not really DOOM" line is especially ironic reading it nowadays.
 
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Stuart360

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Among Us?

Didnt this game released like 2 years ago and no one gave a crap about it? And now became a viral thing.
Its dropping back down now though, same with Fall Guys.
Wasnt it some popular streamer that did a big thing on Among Us, and thats what kickstarted its sudden rise in popularity?.
I know that has happened with 2 or 3 big name Inides over the years.
 

Dinky

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Alien Isolation. Apparently everyone thinks it's amazing now. I thought it was brilliant until Alien showed up after you find a key code, but after that the game was pants. I just couldn't handle the whole 'walk at snail's pace while sneaking around and hope Aliens doesn't kill you right before you save the game' gameplay. I mean I could tolerate that for a while, but 20 hours of it? No thanks. Still don't understand why people refer to this repetitive and mundane game as masterpiece.
 
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It barely looks better than an 8-bit game? Whoever did this "review" is a real dumbass. Doom 64 looks incredible and its aesthetics aged wonderfully. It is perhaps a little too dark, but other than that it looks completely fine.


To be honest, this is far from the only instance. Back then everyone wanted "full real" 3D which in return made many magazines criticize 2D games for the sole reason of being 2D. There was no real criticism about the game, just some phony "lol 2D games are soooo dated" remarks. Kinda makes you think that video game journalists always were kinda shitty with a few exceptions.
 
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nkarafo

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It barely looks better than an 8-bit game? Whoever did this "review" is a real dumbass. Doom 64 looks incredible and its aesthetics aged wonderfully. It is perhaps a little too dark, but other than that it looks completely fine.


To be honest, this is far from the only instance. Back then everyone wanted "full real" 3D which in return made many magazines criticize 2D games for the sole reason of being 2D. There was no real criticism about the game, just some phony "lol 2D games are soooo dated" remarks. Kinda makes you think that video game journalists always were kinda shitty with a few exceptions.
I agree with everything you said but the review you quoted is about Earthbound.

Not that DOOM 64 fared any better, just saying.
 

Sub_Level

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Its semantics, but Demons Souls wasn't dismissed. It was popular among early PS3 adopters, and its localization after the Japan launch was highly anticipated. Some people couldn't wait and even imported.

It was simply niche, since the number of early PS3 adopters was limited.
 

Ulysses 31

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Doom 64 was a big deal when it came out, and it made the cover of Nintendo Power. I have no fucking clue what planet you come from or the drugs you smoke there.
Financially it did so poor that they cancelled the sequel.
 

Barakov

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It was generally disliked by reviewers when it launched, because they were so in love with Turok. Case in point, Jeff Gerstmann:




And him saying this about the Unmaker which, when fully upgraded, is the most dominant weapon in ANY Doom game, is just :messenger_grinning_sweat:

hd remake GIF

I always forget how wrong that dude is about certain things.
 
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