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[ethomaz]

Lol?

lol = what the point of your thread.

 

[Ezquimacore]

Persona and xenoblade are better than that trash of a franchise these days

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

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[MvCSpiderman]

Dragon Quest, Xenoblade Chronicles and Persona are AAA. But they can't compete with Final Fantasy, there will always be many people saying "What is DQ/XC/Persona?".

Dragon quest is a Square game. And Persona? Really? Xenoblade cuts corners but I can at least see why someone would THINK it was AAA but Persona??

OP is onto something.

For FF haters, this is not about games that are better than this FF or that FF. Of course there have been excellent RPGs since forever (Persona, Xenoblade, whatever you have in mind). We're not talking quality of games, but their budget and production values.

For example, Xenoblade was incredible in its vastness and its seamless open-world design was groundbreaking for JRPGs but the graphics were PS2 level. Persona 5 looks great but it doesn't have cutting-edge graphics.

The only JRPG that comes to mind as genuinely AAA is, as other have pointed out, Dragon Quest XI, and it happens to be a SquareEnix game.

Post of the thread.

Do people here realize the "Top Tier AAA" space (games with 30 million+ budget and sales expectations of over 5 million units) is one ocuppied by no more than 10 (yes only 10) companies in all of gaming?

EA
Ubisoft
Activision
Sony
Capcom
Rockstar
Bethesda
Square-Enix
Microsoft
CDPR

Top tier AAA games only come from studios within these 10 companies. Bandai Namco, Tecmo, Sega or any other Japanese company don't produce Top tier AAA.games. Am I missing some companies?

There are other companies but they are less than 20.

But Namco for example could put out AAA games. In fact they used to for Soul Calibur and Tekken and years earlier, Ridge Racer, but they dropped the ball on recent titles and refuse to give Tales a budget.

The direction is FF is going I'm actually happy about that. Games like DQ and SMT can still have their turn based combat without try to have mass appeal. Having bigger budget basically means you have to make less risky choice.

You don't need to be AAA to have mass appeal. Most of the best selling games are AA to as low as B+.

Grandia was the Saturn's answer to PS1's FF7.

It was also on ps1.

Either way it may have been a response but they are not in the same field in the AAA department. Good game though, didn't like the sequel myself.

I played Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey when they were released on Xbox 360. Both awesome games.

Not AAA lolz



Yeah right.

Lol opening, how about you play the game?

Whats the point of making a thread when you're already so convinced? Short answers, yes, there are RPGs AND JRPGs way better than the archaic FF model we've been fed for decades now.

This thread has nothing to do with preferences in quality. I personally only like two FF games and dislike the rest but that has nothing to do with wanting a AAA alternative to FF.

Still? When talking about the GENRE we call "JRPG", it can't be taken literal. A genre isn't defined by where a game is made. JRPG is a type of game that happens to be similar to RPG games that FIRST became popular from Japanese developers.

Dark Souls is NOT a JRPG (the unfortunately named genre), although it is an RPG that was made in Japan.

Western developers can make JRPGs. Japanese developers can make RPGs that are not JRPGs. Again, it's a genre, not literally RPGs made in one specific country.

Check mark.

 

[killatopak]

The point is, you can't have direct control over your character.
The moment reaction time becomes a determinant, then it's not RPG anymore.

Interaction over menu-based actions is ok though.

ATB systems kinda do require some form of reflex still though. It gets progressively more reaction based in every sequel in FF13 for example.

 

[Danjin44]

The point is, you can't have direct control over your character.
The moment reaction time becomes a determinant, then it's not RPG anymore.

So are you saying Tales series and Star Ocean series are not RPG just because they have action combat?

 

[MvCSpiderman]

lol = what the point of your thread.

You'd get the point if you knew what AAA meant.

 

[ethomaz]

You'd get the point if you knew what AAA meant.

Yeap and there are several games that fits the label.
The two games I give as recent examples are AAA.

 

[Jeeves]

The actual definition that exists since 2 gens ago and not the various changing opinions?

Which is what, specifically?

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[Jooxed]

 

[PhaseJump]

Lost Odyssey played like a proper followup to Final Fantasy X and was a AAA game from Microsoft.

I don't follow the bullshit OP is pumping out here.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

IMO these are the elements that define a JRPG. Obviously genres are fluid and borrow elements from each other so there will be some exceptions, but in general:

- you see the damage #s from attacks
- clear distinction between when you are in battle vs outside of battle
- clear distinction between enemies and friendly NPCs
- anime influence in visuals and story telling style
- “safe areas” e.g. towns or other non/combat areas
- character stats/abilities/equipment play a big role in battle outcomes

 

[T8SC]

Pokemon? Persona?

 

[Danjin44]

Tales and Star Ocean "action combat" is there just for show and aesthetic purposes. They're (J)RPGs at their core.
You can't compare those games to Dark Souls. It's like comparing Borderlands to Counter Strike.

Both Tales games and Star Ocean like Souls series also depends on your reflexes as much as your states.

And just like SMT you can build your states base on your play style, like it or not Souls series are RPGs.

 

[cireza]

OP sounds pretty desperate. Looks like an important topic to him.

He created a topic to only dismiss any opinion different than his on the sole basis of a criteria he hasn't properly defined to begin with.

Wow

 

[Krizalidx11]

Bruh

It hurt FF mainline games so bad FFXV couldn't sell more than 10 million copies and FF16 will follow Dark Souls style of progression !!!

 

[Nester99]

Lol?


By definition it's the only one.


The actual definition that exists since 2 gens ago and not the various changing opinions?



You're wrong and apparently can't read since I pointed out the 90s in the post. Your confusing yourself into thinking I didn't point that out.

The term "japanese-style" was used back then commonly but Jrpg was not a common term as it is now.

But the term Jrpg became standard in the early 2000s.

Computer rpgs were always called computer rpgs until Wrpg became standard.

This is very simple.

So your entire thread is useless if you already knew the answer? You just wanted to fight with strangers on the internet then?

Why would you even bother with this ? Autism?

You should have your thread making abilities curtailed.

 

[teezzy]

This thread stinks

 

[FStubbs]

Lost Odyssey played like a proper followup to Final Fantasy X and was a AAA game from Microsoft.

I don't follow the bullshit OP is pumping out here.

The OP is referring to jRPG series that are consistently AAA. I don't think the OP is talking about one offs like Lost Odyssey.

 

[FStubbs]

Pokemon? Persona?

Persona is AA and Pokemon, while AAA from a marketing and brand synergism standpoint, the games themselves aren't even really AA level.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I think it was a fair question. But OP should’ve made it clear that by “AAA” he meant “high budget, cutting edge graphics and production values” and not “games that you really like”

 

[ArtemisClydeFrog]

No even close to AAA

Neither are you LOL got yo dumbass

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[Danjin44]

You can give a high level player to a Dark Souls novice, and he will likely lose.
You can give a high level party to a Final Fantasy/Tales/Dragon Quest novice, and he will likely win.

You also can grind the crap out of Dark Souls to increase your states so you will have easier time, just any other RPGs out there.

In fact this big reason so many people having a hard time with Sekiro because unlike other Souls games Sekiro is an action game you cant grind to get stronger.

 

[MvCSpiderman]

Yeap and there are several games that fits the label.

No you just saw ps1 games playing similar to FF7 and considered them AAA. No jrpg was close to FF7s AAA features most ps1 most jrpgs on ps1 can't even do better than Shadow madness, in AAA and that was a A jrpg made by some random american college grads.

 

[salamanderjuice]

I think it was a fair question. But OP should’ve made it clear that by “AAA” he meant “high budget, cutting edge graphics and production values” and not “games that you really like”

Even still he's wrong. The Legend of the Dragoon, Lost Odyessy and Blue Dragon were all high budget, cutting edge graphics and production values for their time.

 

[salamanderjuice]

No you just saw ps1 games playing similar to FF7 and considered them AAA. No jrpg was close to FF7s AAA features most ps1 most jrpgs on ps1 can't even do better than Shadow madness, in AAA and that was a A jrpg made by some random american college grads.

This is like saying that Tomb Raider (2013) isn't AAA because it doesn't look as good as The Last of Us.

 

[ethomaz]

No you just saw ps1 games playing similar to FF7 and considered them AAA. No jrpg was close to FF7s AAA features most ps1 most jrpgs on ps1 can't even do better than Shadow madness, in AAA and that was a A jrpg made by some random american college grads.

AAA has nothing to do with features or quality.
It is about budget.

In terms of quality and features there are several that did better than FF7 but have lower budget so not considered AAA.

 

[MvCSpiderman]

I think it was a fair question. But OP should’ve made it clear that by “AAA” he meant “high budget, cutting edge graphics and production values” and not “games that you really like”

What?

This may come as a shock to you but.

People can like games

That aren't AAA.

AAA has never meant "games you liked" lol. I think it's just FF haters pretending the thread is saying FF is the best jrpg series even though thats nowhere in the OP. AAA only means one thing.

 

[MvCSpiderman]

This is like saying that Tomb Raider (2013) isn't AAA because it doesn't look as good as The Last of Us.

I never said anything about AAA being looks only. So this is a very flawed analogy.

AAA has nothing to do with features or quality.
It is about budget.

It's about budget, production values, polish, and assets.

Which it always has been.bthe games you listed didn't apply.

You can have a Jrpg be AAA with only half of FFs mismanaged bloated finances. But no one has done it.

At least it seems so.

 

[MvCSpiderman]

Even still he's wrong. The Legend of the Dragoon, Lost Odyessy and Blue Dragon were all high budget, cutting edge graphics and production values for their time.

No one was calling any of those AAA games. Dragoon reviews even noted the cinematics and initial graphics impressions but then mention issues and how later on they dropped the ball as you played. Corner cutting can only help your game look AAA for a time.

 

[salamanderjuice]

No one was calling any of those AAA games. Dragoon reviews even noted the cinematics and initial graphics impressions but then mention issues and how later on they dropped the ball as you played. Corner cutting can only help your game look AAA for a time.

A bad AAA game is still a AAA game!

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

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[ethomaz]

I never said anything about AAA being looks only. So this is a very flawed analogy.


It's about budget, production values, polish, and assets.

Which it always has been.bthe games you listed didn't apply.

You can have a Jrpg be AAA with only half of FFs mismanaged bloated finances. But no one has done it.

At least it seems so.

Nope... it is just about development budget.... what you do with it is not related to be AAA or not.
It is just that with AAA budget the chances to have a more polished with better assets version is bigger but not a rule.

Cyberpunk 2047 is a recent a AAA budget with very low punishment and quality.

FFVII dev budget was $40 million (plus $100 million in marketing but that is not included in the dev budget) but that was the high end of the AAA spectrum at time.
Games around $20 million budget in PS1 gen was already considered AAA.

 

[Danjin44]

Like I said, it's how much player skill influences the interaction. Dark Souls is not an RPG.
It's like Call of Duty with added character attributes, a sort of "fake RPG".
At its core, player skill is what matters, not character skill.

Sekiro is From Software embracing the fact that Souls series is an action game series.

I think you have very different idea whats RPG than I do so agree to disagree.

 

[MvCSpiderman]

A bad AAA game is still a AAA game!

It's not AAA read. It's AA with tricks to make you think it's AAA in trailers and the first minutes. The graphics and polish drop dramatically and at one point there are even Jaguar textures at around the halfway point for goodness sake.

I believe the game wasn't finished personally. If they had more time it would have been AAA.

It's not about quality of the gameplay. (People actually like the game on that end) just AAA.

 

[sublimit]

Final Fantasy has been going through an identity crisis for quite a long while now and during that time other series like Dragon Quest and Xenoblade seem to have surpassed it at least in my eyes. I remember how thankfull i was after playing the first Xenoblade after the disappointment that was FFXIII. FFVIIR was also a disappointment but for the first time in a long while i'm quite hopefull for FFXVI.
But yeah the competition seems to be much bigger now than it was 10+ years ago.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

What?

This may come as a shock to you but.

People can like games

That aren't AAA.

AAA has never meant "games you liked" lol. I think it's just FF haters pretending the thread is saying FF is the best jrpg series even though thats nowhere in the OP. AAA only means one thing.

LOL hey man, JRPG fans are very sensitive and easily triggered. And the one thing that triggers them the most is when you suggest that their favorite JRPG is in any way inferior to Final Fantasy.

Just from reading the title I was already guessing you’d get lots of replies telling you about games they think are better than Final Fantasy, and you’d be spending most of your time telling them those games aren’t AAA. You would’ve been better off clearly defining that in the OP then you wouldn’t have to spend the whole damn thread arguing about it.

 

[MvCSpiderman]

Nope... it is just about development budget.... what you do with it is not related to be AAA or not.

It is just that with AAA budget the chances to have a more polished with better assets version is bigger but not a rule.

Cyberpunk 2047 is a recent a AAA budget with very low punishment and quality.

your wrong just take some time to go back a few years to see how AAA was used. The same as now. Budgets only a piece of the problem. You can have a AAA game with $30 million or with $100 million. Bugs have nothing to do with it. Some of the best looking games last gen had performance issues and we're broken. Still AAA.

And you could tell looking at the game and assets in the areas I mentioned. It's clear a Persona does not have the same check marks as Cyberpunk or FF despite Persona being the more stable release.

 

[salamanderjuice]

It's not AAA read. It's AA with tricks to make you think it's AAA in trailers and the first minutes. The graphics and polish drop dramatically and at one point there are even Jaguar textures at around the halfway point for goodness sake.

I believe the game wasn't finished personally. If they had more time it would have been AAA.

It's not about quality of the gameplay. (People actually like the game on that end) just AAA.

Legend of the Dragoon cost 16 million dollars to make. That is 8 times Crash Bandicoot 2. Please don't tell me that CB2 was not a AAA on Playstation.

 

[ethomaz]

your wrong just take some time to go back a few years to see how AAA was used. The same as now. Budgets only a piece of the problem. You can have a AAA game with $30 million or with $100 million. Bugs have nothing to do with it. Some of the best looking games last gen had performance issues and we're broken. Still AAA.

And you could tell looking at the game and assets in the areas I mentioned. It's clear a Persona does not have the same check marks as Cyberpunk or FF despite Persona being the more stable release.

See?

You have no ideia of what AAA means so how can we discsuss...
Today no $30 million budget game will ever be called AAA because it doesn't have the budget to be AAA.

Again... what the point of the thread?

 

[MvCSpiderman]

Final Fantasy has been going through an identity crisis for quite a long while now and during that time other series like Dragon Quest and Xenoblade seem to have surpassed it at least in my eyes. I remember how thankfull i was after playing the first Xenoblade after the disappointment that was FFXIII. FFVIIR was also a disappointment but for the first time in a long while i'm quite hopefull for FFXVI.
But yeah the competition seems to be much bigger now than it was 10+ years ago.

Are you serious?

LOL hey man, JRPG fans are very sensitive and easily triggered. And the one thing that triggers them the most is when you suggest that their favorite JRPG is in any way inferior to Final Fantasy.

Just from reading the title I was already guessing you’d get lots of replies telling you about games they think are better than Final Fantasy, and you’d be spending most of your time telling them those games aren’t AAA. You would’ve been better off clearly defining that in the OP then you wouldn’t have to spend the whole damn thread arguing about it.

AAA only means one thing, AAA does not mean "FF is the best thing since pb&j" so I have no clue why they are listing their favorite games unless they are rewriting the thread.

I think what these people should do is tell the developers of their favorite jrpgs to give their favorite series a budget and assets instead.

 

[ethomaz]

Legend of the Dragoon cost 16 million dollars to make. That is 8 times Crash Bandicoot 2. Please don't tell me that CB2 was not a AAA on Playstation.

16 million budget at PS1 gen was considered AAA.
FFVII at launch was one of the biggest budget ever for AAA with $40 million... you can compare that $40m with $200-300m budget on GTAs like games but $80m is still AAA too.

 

[NahaNago]

The ps1 had several AAA jrpgs. I'd say legend of dragoon, jade cocoon, the lunar silver something, shin megami games, and I'm drawing a blank on others. Lost odyssey is a AAA game and so is Blue Dragon. I always thought the xenosaga were AAA games. Xenoblade by Nintendo is iffy since half the time do Nintendo games get considered as AAA games. Would the new Yakuza game would be considered a AAA jrpg, haven't played it but it looks amazing.

The issue with AAA jrpg's is that a lot of studios didn't dramatically raise their budget after the ps1 like Squareenix did to keep up with western developers. Atlus is still the same atlus but in hd.

A jrpg game at least has to have a party that you can fight with and modify. It can be turn based or action. You also level up. So souls and zelda wouldn't count in this instance. I'm not even sure if you can consider them rpgs since your player is for the most part premade and the story doesn't really change based on your characters details. They are more like action or adventure games. A jrpg doesn't technically have to be made in japan. Just like manga doesn't have to be made by only Japanese people.

 

[MvCSpiderman]

Legend of the Dragoon cost 16 million dollars to make. That is 8 times Crash Bandicoot 2. Please don't tell me that CB2 was not a AAA on Playstation.

The game Crash 2 was not AAA.

The marketing for it however was.

FF7 despite looking 500x worse than Crash 2 outside fmv, still had more AAA in the development of the game itself and assets, even with if they looked worse.

Like how a simple aesthetical game can look better to view than a grainy texture heavy aesthetic in the early 3D days but the later was AAA.

Comparatively Rayman 2 was AAA even though it was not as popular or as well marketed as Crash 2 originally. Even the cutdown PS1 version.

Now Crash 3 would have been a better comparison, but the premise is still flawed because your focusing on budget only and aren't accounting for bloat.

This budget only nonsense is a recent fallacy.

 

[MvCSpiderman]

See?

You have no ideia of what AAA means so how can we discsuss...
Today no $30 million budget game will ever be called AAA because it doesn't have the budget to be AAA.

Again... what the point of the thread?

There are plenty of $30 million budget games or less that are AAA and several of those people didn't originally know the budget at launch expecting them to have bigger budgets.

Your using a dumbed down version of AAA not even EA uses since even they have brought up themselves trying to make AAA with reduced budgets.

Using your definition if Balan Wonderworlds devs somehow found a way to lose $60 million in development, it would be AAA.

Which is BS and so is focusing on budget only with no accounting for bloat. If you were around in the 2000s you should know AAA was never about budget only originally. Still isn't outside some confused guys on boards.

 

[ethomaz]

There are plenty of $30 million budget games or less that are AAA and several of those people didn't originally know the budget at launch expecting them to have bigger budgets.

Your using a dumbed down version of AAA not even EA uses since even they have brought up themselves trying to make AAA with reduced budgets.

Using your definition if Balan Wonderworlds devs somehow found a way to lose $60 million in development, it would be AAA.

Which is BS and so is focusing on budget only with no accounting for bloat. If you were around in the 2000s you should know AAA was never about budget only originally. Still isn't outside some confused guys on boards.

$60 million is not AAA nowdays anymore.
AAA = high budget game
It is not related to quality.

Game budget increased over the generations so $20 million was considered AAA in the past but today it is not.

A good exemple of AAA budget with bad quality... Halo Infinity being launched last year.

 

[sublimit]

Are you serious?

What makes you think i'm not?

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

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