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Has the market dictated that backwards compatibility is required now (PS5?)
- Thread starter Chinbo37
- Start date
MomsNewBoyfriend
Neo Member
Iterative consoles are what we're getting from here on out so BC is a given
WaterAstro
Member
Already played those games, don't need to play them again, especially since their multiplayer servers are most likely off or empty. My favourite console shooter is Killzone 2, and I have no desire to play it again... unless it's remastered, which means players will be playing multiplayer again.
BC is great, but not at the cost of new games, which Microsoft is sorely lacking in the exclusive* department.
*not really exclusive since they're on PC.
Norse
Member
GenericUser
Member
I personally think yes. With the rise of digital purchases, the idea that you lose access to all those games on the next console seems a bit off to be honest. Given the (more or less) fact, that the PS5 will also feature a x86 CPU architecture, I fully expect it to be backwards compatible with the PS4 library. But I also don't think, that it will be backwards compatible any further. PS3 emulation is too complicated and anything below that is probably not worth the effort for sony.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
To be honest I think arrogant Sony doesn't make the PS5 backwards compatible with PS4. Have you guys read Reddit or other sites? People say that bc on Xbox One is a bad thing and they are glad that Sony doesn't have this cus they only want new games.
I know they have this opinion because they are fan boys and has to use a Xbox One advantage and make is a disadvantage, but when we look at how anti consumer Sony is (except the massive line of exclusives), then it wouldn't surprise me that they wouldn't make BC.
I know they have this opinion because they are fan boys and has to use a Xbox One advantage and make is a disadvantage, but when we look at how anti consumer Sony is (except the massive line of exclusives), then it wouldn't surprise me that they wouldn't make BC.
EventHorizon
Member
The PS4 has no backward compatibility and is easily winning this generation. As has always been the case, backward compatibility is a nice-to-have but secondary buying criteria. If everything else were equal, it would tip the buying decision, but everything else is not equal. The price, power, subscription lock in, and the exclusive game library of the next console will matter far far more.
The likelyhood of PS5 being BC is greater than the Nextbox. That's because you need to realise that the main goal of BC is to try and keep people who are invested in your system already by making them buy your next one. PS3 had backwards compatibility with PS2. The fact that they spent so much on having PS2 hardware in a heavily subsidized PS3 was to retain the greater PS2 audience. That didn't work out for them because people were not happy about the price and they cut costs as it went on and BC became less of an issue. The rule of thumb is if your previous generation was a success then you aim to retain BC to give an incentive for people to transition to the new system rather than a competitors. As the hardware now is less esoteric the likelyhood of BC is very high because it is beneficial to both parties the consumer and manufacturer.
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itsjustJEFF
Member
None of these networks are 100% secure, it's actually impossible. Since 2011 both networks have suffered some sort of "outage" just not a system wide as the 2011 hack. There have been spots of outages that have affected people, but nothing as big as 2011. I think both Xbox and Playstation have come a long way since 2011. Honestly I think the 2011 hack could happen to any network, free or not. The fact that these networks don't get taken down more often is amazing. Do you know how angry and vengeful some gamers can be? Back in 2011 Sony/Playstation was pretty green when it came to online protection, Xbox/MS had a lot more experience in that area. Just line in 2011 Xbox/MS were pretty green when it came to hardware, compared to Sony/Playstation. But look where we are now, PSN has come a long way, Xbox hardware has come a long way. As for gamertag/username, it seems to be a fundamental thing they never took into consideration when they built PSN... lack of experience.
gunslikewhoa
Member
But will they care about playing games from 2018?
magnumpy
Member
well gaming is very popular, so I'm guessing yes for many people.
Ozrimandias
Member
Yup, thats my problem with Sony. Im loyal to the brand and their consoles, mostly because of its exclusives but its so frustrating, not be able to replay some games from past generations. Thas what its triying to achieve xbox, build a loyalty to their brand in the long term.
kaczmar
Member
That is a pretty big statement for someone who obviously enjoys the Sony ecosystem. Correctly me if I am wrong, but currently you have multiple Sony consoles in your home now. What is the big deal if you add one more?
Plague Doctor
Member
I'd rather it be there but honestly, I never buy old games unless I didn't play it back in the day. I get there are people who will replay things over and over again but I am not one of them.
LittleBusters
Banned
Is BC a 'thing'? People buy new console to play new games, not old games. I think BC is just another Microsoft shell game to divert attention from the lack of quality new exclusives.
Sony could have everyone covered for BC with the PS5.
They already have PSNOW for those who don't want to buy PS3 games and go digital, or offer a PS3 emulator for those that want to pop in a disc and play (and charge them 60 bucks for the program). Yes, the PS5 should be more than capable of emulating PS3.
They could do the same for PS1 and PS2 as well.
Hell, if they charged for the emulator, they'd recoup their costs well within a year.
PS4 BC is a given since we already know they'll be using BSD again. There's no reason not to.
Remasters only happened because the PS4 wasn't strong enough to emulate the PS3. Now that they are a thing, they won't lose anything by still making them and offering the originals digitally as well.
They already have PSNOW for those who don't want to buy PS3 games and go digital, or offer a PS3 emulator for those that want to pop in a disc and play (and charge them 60 bucks for the program). Yes, the PS5 should be more than capable of emulating PS3.
They could do the same for PS1 and PS2 as well.
Hell, if they charged for the emulator, they'd recoup their costs well within a year.
PS4 BC is a given since we already know they'll be using BSD again. There's no reason not to.
Remasters only happened because the PS4 wasn't strong enough to emulate the PS3. Now that they are a thing, they won't lose anything by still making them and offering the originals digitally as well.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
If bc was really that important, the Xbox would be ourselling the ps4 I would imagine. Also, Microsoft really pushed for it to expand their library of games compared to Sony because of lack of exclusives. It’s a nice feature to have, but the importance of it seems to be blown out of proportion. I doubt lack of bc will be a deal breaker for most people are going to pay $400 to $500 for new consoles, but yeah it will probably determine if a few gamers jump in or not.
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93xfan
Banned
Because it will never end. Every five years, add another console. I love booting up old games, but I don’t like putting systems in a closet and just hoping it will continue to work in the future, so I don’t lose access to my games.
Microsoft is showing how BC should be done. Sony, on the other hand, cannot even give us PS1 classics after 5 years. They were awesome with BC all the way up to the PS4.
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Louis Cyphre
Banned
I'm not sure what happened with Sony to be honest. They dominated with the PS2 and thought the PS3 needed it but costs were overblown so they did whatever it took to get the price down and ever since it seems like Sony is backwards now on backwards compatibility, even removing PS1 and PS2 playback. It's strange how even when the PS2 launched after a successful entry with the original PlayStation that they thought it was good to offer. They didn't have to then either. So what has changed? It really does seem it's all about money now from blocking console crossplay, charging now for online, and the removal of backwards compatibility while increasing remasters.
kaczmar
Member
Welcome to owning consoles. This is the way it works. If you don't like it, go PC. It's not going to change.
Microsoft's approach is refreshing, but not every game is backwards compatible. So for me, I'm still forced to keep my original XBOX and my 360. Either way, I have three Microsoft's consoles in my home.
93xfan
Banned
Perhaps I don’t want to go PC. I don’t want to feel the need to use a keyboard and mouse for online shooters.
I’ll just go Xbox. I’ll go Sony as well if they realize how valuable their PS1 and PS2 games are to me.
EDIT: as a side note, Sony has Socom and Microsoft has Halo. I love both, but only one of these two companies is interested in doing anything with my favorite online franchise of theirs.
I’ll just go Xbox. I’ll go Sony as well if they realize how valuable their PS1 and PS2 games are to me.
EDIT: as a side note, Sony has Socom and Microsoft has Halo. I love both, but only one of these two companies is interested in doing anything with my favorite online franchise of theirs.
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kaczmar
Member
I think the reason is quite simple. The number of gamers that activity use backwards compatibility is very small. Or least it was when the PS4 launched. The PS3 launched with BC with PS1/PS2 games. Don't all PS3 systems actually play PS1 games?
I would imagine that Sony (and MS and Nintendo) have feedback mechanisms that upload this kind of information back to the company?
kaczmar
Member
Can't you use all controllers on a PC? So you don't need to use a keyboard/mouse for your shooters.
Personally, I have a PS2 for PS1/PS2 games. Maybe buy a original fat PS3 for BC for your loved Sony titles.
It will be wonderful if the PS5 can play all Sony titles. Maybe the market now dictates BC has a must have feature. I would be be very happy with that. Although, if BC is a no go, it really won't make a difference. I will wait for some awesome Sony exclusives or price drop before I commit.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
You mean the same data that told them it was a viable feature pre-launch of the PS3? How did we go from it being a good feature for the PS2 and the start of the PS3 to now nobody hardly uses it? t's called a fan service, just like a fan service that allows remote play or crossplay with the PC. What's the data on the use of those?
The Mad Draklor
Member
While you can't pop in every OG Xbox and 360 game in the XB1, the way Microsoft has handled BC is quite phenomenal. I only speak for myself, but the PS5 will most likely have PS4 BC because Sony will be interested in propping up the PS ecosystem and the x86 architecture makes BC more feasible.
I do hope that Sony does more than just a boost mode. Maybe Sony can offer two modes. The boost mode will serve as the safe mode with no bugs. The second one will be an experimental mode where the PS5 forces resolution upscaling and/or framerate boosts at the risk of running into bugs.
I do hope that Sony does more than just a boost mode. Maybe Sony can offer two modes. The boost mode will serve as the safe mode with no bugs. The second one will be an experimental mode where the PS5 forces resolution upscaling and/or framerate boosts at the risk of running into bugs.
93xfan
Banned
A controller wouldn’t allow me to be competitive.
Anyway, nostalgia sells. But even if Sony didn’t get older generations to work on PS5, I think it would hugely hurt them to not have PS4 games available in the PS5. This would be much worse than just the cross play thing.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
BC tomorrow will be far more important than BC was yesterday. I'm seeing that there's more than one person in this thread who somehow still doesn't get that.
Today, people buy their games online, digitally. Today, people spend hundreds, thousands of dollars on video games that are tied to an account in cyberspace. Today, people will buy one game intending to play it for several years. Today, people will continue to invest money into that game over several years, as they continue to play.
You expect those people to be entirely comfortable with hitting the reset button next generation? When, today, in this digital age, you don't have to do that anywhere else?
I don't have to buy an album again when I switch to a new music player. I don't have to buy a movie again when I buy a new computer, when I buy a new blu-ray player, or even when formats change. I own ebooks from ten years ago that work on every applicable device I own today.
And I can -confidently- go to the store, or to Amazon, right now, and purchase any of those things, knowing full well that they will continue to work moving forward.
So when you're trying to understand why backwards compatibility is important, remember that it's not about how much people value being able to play their 360 games on their Xbox One right now. It's about how people aren't going to want to buy Overwatch and Rocket League again on PS5 and start all over, not if they don't have to. You don't have to do that on PC. Logic suggests you won't have to do that on Nextbox if you don't want to. That Sony respects the purchase history and time/money investment of their players is not a ridiculous expectation to hold. It's a downright sensible one. It's why PS5 will have backward compatibility, and I'd bet good money on that, because Sony aren't as foolish as their most myopic fans are.
Today, people buy their games online, digitally. Today, people spend hundreds, thousands of dollars on video games that are tied to an account in cyberspace. Today, people will buy one game intending to play it for several years. Today, people will continue to invest money into that game over several years, as they continue to play.
You expect those people to be entirely comfortable with hitting the reset button next generation? When, today, in this digital age, you don't have to do that anywhere else?
I don't have to buy an album again when I switch to a new music player. I don't have to buy a movie again when I buy a new computer, when I buy a new blu-ray player, or even when formats change. I own ebooks from ten years ago that work on every applicable device I own today.
And I can -confidently- go to the store, or to Amazon, right now, and purchase any of those things, knowing full well that they will continue to work moving forward.
So when you're trying to understand why backwards compatibility is important, remember that it's not about how much people value being able to play their 360 games on their Xbox One right now. It's about how people aren't going to want to buy Overwatch and Rocket League again on PS5 and start all over, not if they don't have to. You don't have to do that on PC. Logic suggests you won't have to do that on Nextbox if you don't want to. That Sony respects the purchase history and time/money investment of their players is not a ridiculous expectation to hold. It's a downright sensible one. It's why PS5 will have backward compatibility, and I'd bet good money on that, because Sony aren't as foolish as their most myopic fans are.
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Louis Cyphre
Banned
It really is baffling just how messed up and far behind the videogame console model still is.
dispensergoinup
Gold Member
I think PS5 will have BC but if it doesn't, it won't be a deal breaker for me either.
I'll keep PS4 along with the new console if that's the case. My history with playing PS3 games on PS4 is pretty short, I bought Last of Us and Uncharted Collection and I barely touch them, since my focus was on new PS4 games. I don't think my habits will change when the new hardware comes out but I can understand if more people invested in current PS4 games will want it on PS5 as well.
I'll keep PS4 along with the new console if that's the case. My history with playing PS3 games on PS4 is pretty short, I bought Last of Us and Uncharted Collection and I barely touch them, since my focus was on new PS4 games. I don't think my habits will change when the new hardware comes out but I can understand if more people invested in current PS4 games will want it on PS5 as well.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Microsoft is helping push things forward and Sony will surely follow suit. I'm positive that they're designing the PS5 to play PS4 games from day one. They know better than to not.
kaczmar
Member
Because video game consoles are still largely tied to physical media.
kaczmar
Member
I'm not suggesting nobody uses BC. I am suggesting that it's not a big enough number of PS users. Sony removed the feature from subsequent revisions to the PS3 (PS2 BC) and nobody complained.
HeresJohnny
Member
Well seeing as the system that has backwards compatibility got smoked I think your answer is absolutely correct. I always thought backwards compatibility would matter more, but it appears like it's pretty far down the list and far from being a "must have." This pretty much ends the debate and answers the question.
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kaczmar
Member
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Of course nobody complained because it was either or. Then last system to support it was a Metal Gear Solid special unit that sold out, so there you go people wanted it. Sony ultimately decided for us it was either keep the price high or get rid of it and Sony was bleeding money to the point of almost going bankrupt so everything that could be cut was cut. BC is more of a fan service, so trying to use PS4 sales as a means of nobody caring about BD is disingenuous. Giving out hard numbers of who uses the service would be something we could work with. Give out numbers who uses remote play in comparison for example.
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kaczmar
Member
I going to go out on a limb and say people bought the Metal Gear Solid special edition not for BC, but rather a cool special edition console. IMO, sales of limited edition items aren't an indicator of anything.
Look I believe Sony will have BC on the PS5. How far back will they go is an unknown. I would love for it to be all the back to the PS1. I also think that BC will be part of the PS+ membership. No data to support. Just a hunch.
Sony (or any company) will never release the consumer data they have, but it would be great information to know.
CeeJay
Member
All those arguing that because BC didn't help Xbox to catch up in sales so its obviously not important are missing something very significant. When BC came to Xbox One the PS4 had over 30,000,000 worldwide sales while Xbox One had around 15,000,000. PS4 already had reached and passed that critical tipping point that then self perpetuates further sales because "its the system that the majority of my friends have". The bad PR from the Xbox One launch was still at play as well so it never really moved the needle, doesn't mean that when the next gen starts it will be the same rules apply. The early years of a console are the most critical for its long-term success and the more features it has the more chance it will have of gathering that all important momentum.
You guys saying that its not important and won't make any difference when making your next console purchase are talking yourself out of a feature that is very nice to have with no negatives whatsoever. Some people don't like to go back and play old games in the same way that some people don't go back and watch old movies, listen to old music and read old books but plenty of people do and it is nice to have the option to do so without having to buy old hardware specifically for it.
You guys saying that its not important and won't make any difference when making your next console purchase are talking yourself out of a feature that is very nice to have with no negatives whatsoever. Some people don't like to go back and play old games in the same way that some people don't go back and watch old movies, listen to old music and read old books but plenty of people do and it is nice to have the option to do so without having to buy old hardware specifically for it.
kaczmar
Member
I get what you are trying to say. Where you fall short is that you are comparing a file format to an application. Generally, the longevity of file formats is pretty long and they can be converted from an older format to a newer format by the developer to ensure continued compatibility. Playstation games are not a file format.
Playstation games are applications. Generally, computer/mobile applications don't follow the longevity model of file formats. Major OS releases cause existing applications not to work properly or at all. I retain old mobile devices/computers just to run old applications that aren't supported by newer operating systems. The PS5 will be a major OS release.
Early PS3 units had PS2 chipsets in them to make PS2 games play. There was no emulation layer. Moving forward to the PS5, a number of factors may derail BC compatibility. Does Sony have the technical expertise and resources to create an emulation layer where needed? Are they interested in relicensing any PS3/PS4 middleware for the PS5? Is the middleware even compatible with the PS5 architecture? There is a lot that goes into BC. It may not be a defacto standard for the PS5.
LucidFeuer
Banned
The fact that I always hated the Xbox platform, and yet I'm almost drawn to consider the Xone over PS4 because it has backwards compatibility says all about the importance of it for some people like me.
Playstation is in competition, not just with other console but any other gaming platform, mainly PC. While PCs are more costly (high-end GPUs are ridiculously expensive) and lesser of an experience, there's simply not going around the fact that you can play ALL PC games ever publishers on it AND most legacy consoles with emulator.
So it's crazy that out of greed (to milk "remasters", duh) they didn't even include PS3 emulation while a handful of people are developing RPCS3, and I know lots of people who never got a PS4 because they still have a PS3 sitting at home (and nobody wants the bulk and redundancy), I wouldn't have either if I wasn't offered one...
Playstation is in competition, not just with other console but any other gaming platform, mainly PC. While PCs are more costly (high-end GPUs are ridiculously expensive) and lesser of an experience, there's simply not going around the fact that you can play ALL PC games ever publishers on it AND most legacy consoles with emulator.
So it's crazy that out of greed (to milk "remasters", duh) they didn't even include PS3 emulation while a handful of people are developing RPCS3, and I know lots of people who never got a PS4 because they still have a PS3 sitting at home (and nobody wants the bulk and redundancy), I wouldn't have either if I wasn't offered one...
kaczmar
Member
I personally don't mind remasters. Usually, the remasters look and play better than their predecessors.
If BC is that important to you, I would suggest PC over XBOX. As of writing this, I see no advantage from owning an XBOX over PC outside of cost. The PC offers potentially offers no limits on BC.
93xfan
Banned
I did. Let me combine the statements to be clear:
I would feel the need to learn and use a keyboard and mouse to be competitive in first person shooters on PC.
And I don’t wish to do that.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
The market? No. Not even close.
Will they have it? Of course they will. They understand the retention of service based structures/ecosystem revenue, and have rebuilt their online infrastructure, console hardware, and SDKs for just that moving forward. Nor will they reset PSVR.
Will they have it? Of course they will. They understand the retention of service based structures/ecosystem revenue, and have rebuilt their online infrastructure, console hardware, and SDKs for just that moving forward. Nor will they reset PSVR.
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93xfan
Banned
I find it weird that console gamers are always asked to justify why BC is important to us.
The reasons we want it are not complicated.
Keeping our old systems and relying on them to function is far from ideal for us.
The end result is that one company hears us and the other does not seem to.
The reasons we want it are not complicated.
Keeping our old systems and relying on them to function is far from ideal for us.
The end result is that one company hears us and the other does not seem to.
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Tarkus98
Member
I believe the importance of BC going into next gen will be more important then prior generations. This is mainly due to the fact that digital purchases have grown significantly compared to prior gens. In order to retain customers BC will be one of the “checklist” items you would want to offer your existing client base. This should not be something you want your closest competitor to have and you decide to omit it.
For me personally it is a nice to have feature but I would like to see it done with the additional bells & whistles like what Microsoft does with the X. If it’s just straight BC without improving textures, res, etc. then I’m not interested.
Anyway considering Sony has offered BC in the past with PS3 emulation being the exception I would honestly be shocked if they don’t have it. Especially considering the fact that it appears they will retain the x86 architecture. So, yeah....
For me personally it is a nice to have feature but I would like to see it done with the additional bells & whistles like what Microsoft does with the X. If it’s just straight BC without improving textures, res, etc. then I’m not interested.
Anyway considering Sony has offered BC in the past with PS3 emulation being the exception I would honestly be shocked if they don’t have it. Especially considering the fact that it appears they will retain the x86 architecture. So, yeah....
LucidFeuer
Banned
From a user standpoint you're right, you can get anything on PC as far as the PS3/Wii U go (not sure about X360)...but from a gamer or collector standpoint, being able to play with original copies (even if you can make your own ROM), on the platform and the way it was intended to, it's better.
But we're talking business here so that's not really the point. The point is that precisely to compete with PC, emulators and other platforms (wether it's Uplay, Steam, Nintendo or Android), it's absolutely ludicrous that out of greed they would not include BC because they're losing big on the mid-long terms investment in platform catalogue, value, image and availability...especially as console will eventually be obsolete as devices.
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