• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Have ANY of the popular old school Western fighting games aged well over time?

Have any of these 1990-1995 western fighting games aged well over time?

  • Mortal Kombat 2

    Votes: 18 38.3%
  • Killer Instinct

    Votes: 8 17.0%
  • Primal Rage

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Pit Fighter

    Votes: 1 2.1%
  • One Must Fall 2097

    Votes: 1 2.1%
  • 4D Sports Boxing

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • FX Fighter

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Clayfighter 2

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Body Blows

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Criticom

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Shaq Fu

    Votes: 3 6.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 1 2.1%
  • NONE of these have aged well at all.

    Votes: 15 31.9%

  • Total voters
    47
Jul 24, 2016
617
200
475
Talking early half of the 90's (1990-1995), many people go back and judge various 2D and 3D fighting games from japan (Sf2, Art of fighting, etc) wondering if they still hold up today or are at least playable and can give you value of what things were like at the time, but this is seldom done for western fighting games, though one could argue it's mostly for good reason. I figure it would be cool to look back at this time period because for years an years it's mostly just been just Mortal Kombat for western fighting games, but back in the early days of fighting there were a lot more western fighting ips than Mortal Kombat.

Here are games that were commercially successful at varying levels that also had some form of name recognition on various levels and were known brands whether positively or negatively..

  • Mortal Kombat (primarily 2) [Midway Games]
  • Killer Instinct [Rare]
  • Pit Fighter [Atari]
  • 4D Sports Boxing (arguably the first 3D fighter) [Mindscape]
  • Clay Fighter (primarily 2) [Interplay]
  • Primal Rage [Atari]
  • One Must Fall 2097 [Epic MegaGames Publishing]
  • FX Fighter [Argonaut Games]
  • Criticom [Kronos Digital]
  • Body Blows [Team 17]
  • Shaq Fu [Electronic Arts]

If I'm missing something let me know if they meet the above criteria.

The question is, have any of these western fighters from the classic period of fighting games aged well?
 

01011001

Member
Dec 4, 2018
7,216
11,175
610
they were worse at the time of release, and nowadays their shortcomings are just even more pronounced.
the only game that could even remotely compare to any Japanese fighting game was MAYBE... mayyyybe Killer Instinct, but even that's a stretch.

we are talking about games here like Super SF2 Turbo, Street Fighter 3, the Alpha games, King of Fighters, GAROU!!!, Samurai Shodown, Last Blade... like, there is no way to even compare these to any western fighting game even today... even smaller games noone even remembers like Waku Waku 7 easily dumps on any western game.
there was not a single one ever released that comes close to either of those. but once again the Killer Instinct reboot is the closest to actually match any of them, and it's still not close.

the issue is, the following issues are almost in every western fighting game:
•Stiff Controls
•Bad Balancing
•Shallow Mechanics
•Rigid Fighting System

almost every western fighting game ever released has at least 3 of those 4 issues. It took Mortal Kombat until its 11th installment to even become a somewhat competent fighting game, and that's the big one of the western ones
 
Last edited:
Jul 24, 2016
617
200
475
Street Fighter 3 GAROU!!!
These two are outside the time period I'm referring too. But the rest of what you listed applies. (at least the first SF alpha anyway, that was 1995)

Killer Instinct reboot
I'm talking specifically the classic old school western fighting games that used to be popular, and asking if they have aged well so the reboot of KI wouldn't apply.

But from the sounds of it you may consider the original Killer Instinct to be the lone exception and the rest haven't aged well at all.
 
Last edited:

01011001

Member
Dec 4, 2018
7,216
11,175
610
These two are outside the time period I'm referring too. But the rest of what you listed applies. (at least the first SF alpha anyway, that was 1995)


I'm talking specifically the classic old school western fighting games that used to be popular, and asking if they have aged well so the reboot of KI wouldn't apply.

But from the sounds of it you may consider the original Killer Instinct to be the lone exception and the rest haven't aged well at all.

I just used the reboot of Killer Instinct to sas an example that even today, western fighting games don't come even close to japanese ones. even after all this time, Killer Instinct might be the closest to ever be an actually really good fighting game made by a western dev... and it just about manages to reach that level.
and back then it was even worse. the standard was set SO DAMN high by japanese devs.

I guess some of my examples were released after 95 yeah... they are all Neo Geo or CPS titles and especially the NeoGeo was around a very long time lol, it's hard to separate them for me mentally. that thing was supported from 1990 all the way up to the early 2000s
 
Last edited:

Ten_Fold

Member
Jan 18, 2017
2,508
2,202
490
KI is probably the best western made fighter, ESPECIALLY the newer one. It doesn’t feel stiff, combos look cool, an it feels pretty well made. I hate MK mainly because of the stiffness, and the dial a combo system. Still nobody can make fighters like Japan, they just know how to make their games (for the most part) VERY smooth and fluid.
 

K1Expwy

Member
Nov 28, 2018
305
334
290
Weaponlord is a mixed bag but the gameplay still holds up, it's suspected to be the inspiration for Soul Edge/Soulcalibur. Not a commercial success. It was developed by ex-Street Fighter 2 designers
 

Captain Toad

I advertise for PlayStation. For free.
Dec 1, 2020
4,299
12,050
640
Pit Fighter, lol. I knew this game was garbage back then, and was confused how anyone ever thought otherwise.
 

yurinka

Member
Jan 19, 2007
13,560
5,285
1,720
Barcelona, Spain
www.capcom-town.es
As a big fan of Capcom games, I think most western fighting games have been way worse than Japanese games. In fact, I thought most of them (all except MK 1 and 2 and KI) were garbage. Not sure if I'd continue liking them today.

As of today modern games, I like visuals, features or content of the modern MK games, but I hate its gameplay and animation.

P.S.: Now I remember that when I was a kid I was a huge fan of Barbarian, IK+ and Spitting Image for my Amstrad CPC (an 8 bit computer).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Small John McCarthy

Naked Lunch

Member
Oct 17, 2011
2,831
1,849
855
Im not sure if a Western fighting game was ever good.
That said, I still love Primal Rage even though its godawful.
MKs were huge for their time but looking back they were as unplayable then as now - esp compared to Capcom/SNKs output.

Looking at the OP's list, I do miss arcades.
Ill never forget when MK2 was a surprise release. No one knew it was dropping or even coming out, then we went to the mall one night and there was this huge crowd at the arcade around the MK2 cab. People were going nuts trying to figure out moves, fatalities, and secrets. A few weeks later kids were selling handmade move lists in that arcade.
 

Krappadizzle

Member
Oct 4, 2011
16,231
8,949
1,275
Naughty Dog doesn't even get a mention?




I think I was 1 of 6 people to ever play this game.
 
Last edited:

kunonabi

Member
Dec 2, 2010
19,170
4,759
1,000
Weapon lord could have been amazing with a sequel. Like the bones of something amazing was there it just needed more polish and better direction. UMK3 is a great game and still holds up pretty well. KI is a product of it's time but still fairly distinct in terms of gameplay and presentation. I personally thought the reboot was over-designed myself.

Also let's not pretend like Japan didnt crap out tons of godawful fighters back then as well.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Jan 30, 2010
15,560
5,231
1,410
https://twitter.com/Agnates
metacouncil.com
Nope, though sequels have obviously improved (mostly past the 90s). I used to have a few MKs in my RetroArch arcade favorites but there was no point really, they were just token nods in the end so I just filled that shit with Capcom and SNK goodness and random awesome stuff like Atlus' Groove on Fight, Sunsoft's Astra Superstars and Noise Factory's Matrimelee. I've been playing a lot of Marvel Super Heroes lately, that shit's so good even with all the vs. successors around. Even random stuff like Golden Axe: The Duel are much more playable than anything from the west.
 
Last edited:

bender

Bending Rodríguez (22, 1,729)
Apr 12, 2010
11,582
19,997
1,430
They were never any good in the first place.
 

StevieWhite

Member
Sep 23, 2014
840
34
490
Philadelphia
www.subspacebc.com
Naughty Dog doesn't even get a mention?




I think I was 1 of 6 people to ever play this game.
I was number 2 of 6. I made a mini documentary about it several years back. Pretty fun for what it was, and a historically important game - really allowed Naughty Dog to become what they became.

For some reason, it bears mentioning that you could probably list 10 times as many atrocious Japanese developed fighting games. Part of this is just a numbers game.

THAT BEING SAID I LOVE THEM ALL.
 
  • Strength
Reactions: Krappadizzle

namekuseijin

Banned
Jun 10, 2020
3,250
3,643
625
MK is the only one I can think about, tbh.

you understand back then japan was king of games and western studios were dirty peasants?
 

22:22

Doesnt need recognition
Nov 19, 2020
1,580
2,512
645
39
I voted none 😅

I remember renting this.. boy oh boy...

 

SSfox

Lies about why mods reply ban and warn me.
Jan 7, 2018
2,853
10,778
640
MK2 and KI aged AF gameplaywise but still has that dope iconic atmosphere and tone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 22:22
Jul 24, 2016
617
200
475
Pit Fighter, lol. I knew this game was garbage back then, and was confused how anyone ever thought otherwise.
It was early and also really cool looking graphically with the digitized sprites, and held until MK basically made it irrelevant. What Atari arguably should have done is make sequel that refined the gameplay and improved the graphics with their new arcade machines, instead they went with Primal Rage, which was still fun to play but I mean it's definitely a game that isn't very impressive today as it was back then even with the remastering.

MK is the only one I can think about, tbh.

you understand back then japan was king of games and western studios were dirty peasants?
Not on the Genesis.

I voted none 😅

I remember renting this.. boy oh boy...

Even with the graphical novelty and deceptive advertising they couldn't get a success out of this one, which is all the more strange they made a sequel that basically didn't improve anything. lol.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: 22:22