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Hawkeye |OT| Bro...

Enjay

Banned
Only watched the first episode and very little of the second. I feel like I would've liked it better if hawkeye were more self aware and cynical about being the lamest avenger. Like have an attitude to the girl like "Yeah sure, I'm your favorite avenger. Right. 🙄"
 

Enjay

Banned
Comics were

do people really need a breakdown for Marvel tv shows? This isn’t David Lynch
People need break downs for everything. Seriously if you remember some obscure movie show story whatever make a huge longwinded cringey youtube video on it with outlandish theories and references to cinematic universe of it that never happened. The worst thing that'll happen is you'll get it rebooted and ruined. Hell I might just make a Swat Kats video essay if there aren't 100s yet.

Edit - Ugh a current year reboot of swat kats would be painful.
 
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ManaByte

Member
No it hasn't.

There's literally a picture of him in the movie out.


That was confirmed to be real, especially when Sony cut off Campea and demanded he give up his source of the images as well as destroy the original files.
 
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sol_bad

Member
There's literally a picture of him in the movie out.


That was confirmed to be real, especially when Sony cut off Campea and demanded he give up his source of the images as well as destroy the original files.

Campea isn't in the leaking business, if he had a source for this "legit" image he would have had a source for years and could have leaked many things. It could just be him stirring the pot to show how easy it can be to make something look real. Sony contacting Campea, that's what he says, doesn't make it true. The images have really high contrast and look fishy.

If it turns out to be real, so be it. But this image doesn't prove anything.

Remember how it was 100% confirmed that Omega Red would be in Shang Chi and the film would be about a tournament. And people were confident that WandaVision would introduce mutants to the MCU.
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
I loved the episode!

The only thing I hated was how they didn't show most of the signing. As a deaf actress, I would think she's disappointed because many of my deaf friends support any deaf actor/actress ... But when they cut off the visual of the actual signing... It's like a slap in the face. The Apple TV+ movie "CODA" let the signing be shown in full and I was hoping they'd do it here too... But the directors flubbed that part ...

That said, everything else was aces!
 

sol_bad

Member
This episode seemed like a massive step up from the first 2 episodes. All of the action was pretty much on point. I guess the director for the first 2 episodes just isn't up to snuff yet. Episode 3 was a couple of female directors, wow.

Not just the action though, everything was better, the scene between Clint and his son gave me all the feels, they are good at doing the emotional beats as well.

The "uncle" really did sound like Vincent didn't it? If it is him, it's really weird how they call him that.
 

McCheese

Member
Episode 1 was a right slog, Kate being able to beat up groups of men with ease just isn't entertaining, it's Ray Skywalker levels of dull as there is no risk, watch little miss perfect be perfect because girl power, look she even wears a suit and not a dress so she can fight gender norms whilst single-handedly knocking out a dozen 6 foot thugs.

Does she stop being a Mary-sue after the first episode or should I give up on this now?
 
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sol_bad

Member
Episode 1 was a right slog, Kate being able to beat up groups of men with ease just isn't entertaining, it's Ray Skywalker levels of dull as there is no risk, watch little miss perfect be perfect because girl power, look she even wears a suit and not a dress so she can fight gender norms whilst single-handedly knocking out a dozen 6 foot thugs.

Does she stop being a Mary-sue after the first episode or should I give up on this now?

No she doesn't, so please stop watching with these stupid takes.
 

ManaByte

Member
Episode 1 was a right slog, Kate being able to beat up groups of men with ease just isn't entertaining, it's Ray Skywalker levels of dull as there is no risk, watch little miss perfect be perfect because girl power, look she even wears a suit and not a dress so she can fight gender norms whilst single-handedly knocking out a dozen 6 foot thugs.

Does she stop being a Mary-sue after the first episode or should I give up on this now?
The YouTube video you got that shit take from omitted the entire opening of the first episode where they show training for her entire life.
 

ManaByte

Member
This episode seemed like a massive step up from the first 2 episodes. All of the action was pretty much on point. I guess the director for the first 2 episodes just isn't up to snuff yet. Episode 3 was a couple of female directors, wow.

Not just the action though, everything was better, the scene between Clint and his son gave me all the feels, they are good at doing the emotional beats as well.

The "uncle" really did sound like Vincent didn't it? If it is him, it's really weird how they call him that.

In the comics he was her adoptive father after her real father died. Echo's origin in this is almost exact to the comics including the bloody handprint on her face. Uncle makes sense.
 

Cocksman

Member
This show is fun as fuck. Best MCU show so far…

is Echo missing a leg in the comics? I dont remember that.
 

sol_bad

Member
In the comics he was her adoptive father after her real father died. Echo's origin in this is almost exact to the comics including the bloody handprint on her face. Uncle makes sense.

Would be hillarious if it turns out to be another Quicksilver scenario. Character isn't really Kingpin and the actor playing the character just emulated Vincent's voice.
 

ManaByte

Member
Would be hillarious if it turns out to be another Quicksilver scenario. Character isn't really Kingpin and the actor playing the character just emulated Vincent's voice.
They went to great lengths to make it look like his hands then.
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
Episode 1 was a right slog, Kate being able to beat up groups of men with ease just isn't entertaining, it's Ray Skywalker levels of dull as there is no risk, watch little miss perfect be perfect because girl power, look she even wears a suit and not a dress so she can fight gender norms whilst single-handedly knocking out a dozen 6 foot thugs.

Does she stop being a Mary-sue after the first episode or should I give up on this now?

Ease? I'm sorry but did you see her struggling? Yeah she compensated for her size difference and such but she wasn't beating them all with ease. She even hid in the car! You obviously didn't watch the episode or you would Have known that. She fails spectacularly again and again. Little Miss perfect? Yeah, you didn't watch it.
 

jason10mm

Member
Episode 1 was a right slog, Kate being able to beat up groups of men with ease just isn't entertaining, it's Ray Skywalker levels of dull as there is no risk, watch little miss perfect be perfect because girl power, look she even wears a suit and not a dress so she can fight gender norms whilst single-handedly knocking out a dozen 6 foot thugs.

Does she stop being a Mary-sue after the first episode or should I give up on this now?
Did you miss the intro where it shows she spends her ENTIRE life training for this?

Kates character deficiencies don't include not being able to fight.
 

trikster40

Member
Best series so far, better than Loki IMO. It’s for humor, action, mystery, great dialogue, and who doesn’t love the Tracksuit Mafia, bro?

Im hiring Trust a Bro for my next move!

Oh, and that tease of Kingpin? So psyched!
 
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McCheese

Member
edit: actually nah, not worth it - I don't think this show is for me.
 
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Interrogation was scary. Chase was fun. Cats in the cradle. Acting was solid. Good use of effects. Excellent episode 3. Entertainment wise on par with Wanda 3. Not quite Loki 3. Not quite Doctor Strange What If? About equal to Black Widow, which I liked. Oh yeah right, Yelena is suppose to show up in this series eventually. Poor Clint.
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
She's WAY too young for me but Hailee Steinfeld is daggone beautiful!
 

Xenon

Member
It's alright, there is almost no chemistry between Kate and Clint. They went overboard on the goofyness of the Tracksuit Mafia to the point that they 100% non threatening. Dialog is rough. Editing is rougher. 3 ep was a small step up, but not enough.

The big arrow at the end was kinda dumb, and so poorly done I had to watch it a second time just to see what happened
 
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DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
Nah, she is 24!

And FIT. She is a good casting choice, she is no 90 pound waif tossing around stuntmen.


Still too young for me. I'm 47... I don't care that she's legal... It just doesn't sit right with me. Now if she was 30 or 35... Then we're talking!

But yeah, she's beautiful and I love her moles.
 

NahaNago

Member
I wasn't feeling episode 3. The action was better and more interesting but the interaction between the two characters was worse this time around. Clint getting his butt whooped by echo(?) seemed a bit odd even if she was a martial artist. I would have figured a special agent type character would have sparred with tons of black belts. The arrows they used were a bit too goofy. The over eager character that Kate is in this show is a bit annoying for my taste. She just comes off as really stupid in this show.

I still wish we had a ronin movie. Even a hawkeye movie would have been good. I would just put in tons of action in the movie or maybe some mission impossible type scenes or Jackie Chan style scenes and he would be good to go since he doesn't have the fancy super powers to dazzle folks.
 

ManaByte

Member
Clint getting his butt whooped by echo(?) seemed a bit odd even if she was a martial artist. I would have figured a special agent type character would have sparred with tons of black belts.

Echo is basically Taskmaster. She has the ability to copy and mimic anyone's moves.
 

jason10mm

Member
Echo is basically Taskmaster. She has the ability to copy and mimic anyone's moves.
I've never understood how that is helpful. It's not just the moves that are important, it's the speed and power behind them, as well as knowing WHEN to use the move.
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
I just read that the actress playing Echo, Alaqua Cox, this is her first acting gig! And she already has her own show coming up! Filming starts next month. And the actors tried to make her feel comfortable and welcome by learning basic ASL.

I hated how the camera kept cutting off her signing. Her, Kazi and Clint... I barely saw what they were saying. Yeah, there's subs for them but I prefer to see the actual ASL. As do most deaf people... Whom I'm sure tuned in to see her debut!
 

jason10mm

Member
I just read that the actress playing Echo, Alaqua Cox, this is her first acting gig! And she already has her own show coming up! Filming starts next month. And the actors tried to make her feel comfortable and welcome by learning basic ASL.

I hated how the camera kept cutting off her signing. Her, Kazi and Clint... I barely saw what they were saying. Yeah, there's subs for them but I prefer to see the actual ASL. As do most deaf people... Whom I'm sure tuned in to see her debut!
They treated ASL just like any dialogue; they cut to a reaction shot because that is what the audience needs to see.

I am curious though, are they really getting in all those things like "Let's get Clint Burton!" with just a few hand signs? I thought they had to kinda spell out letters for a lot of stuff.

Is she a daredevil type where being deaf hypertunes her other senses/ +-chemical enhancement to the point where she is not really deaf (like how DD isn't functionally blind) or just a highly trained person? I'm curious how her being deaf is weaponized (i.e. she tosses around sonic grenades to disorient others while she can operate normally) because otherwise that seems like a really big handicap to overcome in the scenes we see with her reacting with a team in a chaotic situation.
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
They treated ASL just like any dialogue; they cut to a reaction shot because that is what the audience needs to see.

I am curious though, are they really getting in all those things like "Let's get Clint Burton!" with just a few hand signs? I thought they had to kinda spell out letters for a lot of stuff.

Is she a daredevil type where being deaf hypertunes her other senses/ +-chemical enhancement to the point where she is not really deaf (like how DD isn't functionally blind) or just a highly trained person? I'm curious how her being deaf is weaponized (i.e. she tosses around sonic grenades to disorient others while she can operate normally) because otherwise that seems like a really big handicap to overcome in the scenes we see with her reacting with a team in a chaotic situation.

You don't have to spell out most words. Just words that don't have a sign. Like names, but you can create a sign name based on that person's personality or some physical feature they have.

So yes, you can definitely get in "Let's get Clint Barton" with a few signs. Actually, you can get that in with like 2 signs and his initials or whatever sign they made for Hawkeye... Which would mean like 3 signs. ASL is MUCH simpler than English... You can say a lot with fewer "words".

As for her being deaf in combat, it works. Hearing doesn't make you a better fighter. Speed does, which is what her dad told her. As for the character, she just pays attention to body language and positioning. In the comics, she has the same power as Taskmaster... Copying the moves of anyone and being a pro at it naturally. But for the show, not sure if they're going that route since they seemed to focus more on her ability to really pay attention to minutiae. No hypertuned senses... Just her natural eyesight. Like I said, the only thing deaf people can't do is hear.

Here's an example of using ASL to say more with less... Common phrases in ASL


ETA: ASL is a VISUAL language, not a audible one. So it needs to be SEEN since you can't hear hands signing.
 
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DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
Also... Facial expressions account for half of conversation in ASL. Like with hearing people, you make facial expressions when you ask a question or making an emphatic statement.

They showed all the signs in Eternals, so I'm still not sure why they'd cut off the signs for Echo in Hawkeye.
 
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jason10mm

Member
As for her being deaf in combat, it works. Hearing doesn't make you a better fighter. Speed does, which is what her dad told her. As for the character, she just pays attention to body language and positioning. In the comics, she has the same power as Taskmaster... Copying the moves of anyone and being a pro at it naturally. But for the show, not sure if they're going that route since they seemed to focus more on her ability to really pay attention to minutiae. No hypertuned senses... Just her natural eyesight. Like I said, the only thing deaf people can't do is hear.
I gotta disagree with that one. If she or other are holding weapons, how do they sign? If a team is scanning out for threats, how do they see each other to communicate? Obviously real world tactical units use hand signals to silently communicate at times but to say that audio is irrelevant in combat, particularly team based combat, is ludicrous. But if she is a master of the weirding way then that works as well.

But I don't want to argue about it because it is a superhero (well, hero anyway) show so nothing makes any sense. I appreciate your insights and I'm sure there will be more as the show progresses. Always nice to see NA actors that aren't straight off the res stereotypes as well.
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
I gotta disagree with that one. If she or other are holding weapons, how do they sign? If a team is scanning out for threats, how do they see each other to communicate? Obviously real world tactical units use hand signals to silently communicate at times but to say that audio is irrelevant in combat, particularly team based combat, is ludicrous. But if she is a master of the weirding way then that works as well.

But I don't want to argue about it because it is a superhero (well, hero anyway) show so nothing makes any sense. I appreciate your insights and I'm sure there will be more as the show progresses. Always nice to see NA actors that aren't straight off the res stereotypes as well.

Yeah I wasn't talking about team combat... Just individual combat. But sometimes even in team situations, they use hand signs for covert ops work.

One other thing, when you have a weapon on hand, you can use your other hand to sign ... You don't necessarily need two hands all the time.
 

NahaNago

Member
Echo is basically Taskmaster. She has the ability to copy and mimic anyone's moves.
That makes more sense. They should have shown that. That little bit we saw of her as a child in the karate class didn't cut it. Shouldn't she be called Mimic then.
 
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DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
That makes more sense. They should have shown that. That little bit we saw of her as a child in the karate class didn't cut it. Shouldn't she be called Mimic then.

It's a play on her being Deaf. Plus her ability to copy anyone's moves is like an echo of that person's moves.
 

NahaNago

Member
It's a play on her being Deaf. Plus her ability to copy anyone's moves is like an echo of that person's move

Since she is all visual. Wouldn't she be taken out by darkness or blinding flash of light. I guess the name echo would throw people off since she is deaf.
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
Since she is all visual. Wouldn't she be taken out by darkness or blinding flash of light. I guess the name echo would throw people off since she is deaf.

Not necessarily. I've been deaf most of my life. I only knew my home was being broken into because I could feel the vibrations of someone walking and then of them pounding on the door trying to come into the bedroom. It was the only reason, apart from divine intervention, that we were protected.
 
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