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Hawkeye |OT| Bro...

sol_bad

Member
so that was the worst produced/directed/worst acted episode of all Marvel shows to date. All the good things Hawkeye had going for it as it tried to get better from its poor first episode were lost in that horrible POS finale. sooo incredibly bad. even worst if you’ve seen Spider-man and were hoping for even a small cameo based on the end of the film.

Kingpins acting was ridiculously bad. was the guy this bad in daredevel? is the only reason people wanted this actor in the show was because he looked like kingpin?

Yelena’s story in this was completely pointless, lacked any sort of real threat, and made it feel like she’s been nerfed regarding skills. the whole drama of her sister’s death never felt like it was anything of substance.

the endless hoard of goons was ridiculously stupid and made the climactic battle feel like a slapstick joke. the show lost all its grit and down to earth presence it had been building.

and that horrible musical… my god, that’s easily the worst thing Marvel has ever made. nails on a chalk board. all I can think is it has to be an intentional joke to poke fun at fans for sticking around for the credits. I had to mute it thanks to my wife giving me the look of death.

1/10 rating for this episode. 6/10 for Hawkeye as a show. the best moment of the show was Hawkeye deaf, trying to talk to his son on the phone. humanizing, grounded, real feeling.

It's totally on the director, Rhys Thomas did episode 1, 2 and 6 while Vert and Bertie did episode 3, 4 and 5.
Rhys Thomas' directing doesn't have any weight to anything. And it's not helping when the show has the most generic music possible. I really do feel that this episode would have hit home better if Bert and Bertie directed it. The emotional scenes and interaction between Clint, Kate and Yelena are so much better during the middle episodes.

I personally never wanted the Kingpin rumour to be true and he feels wasted here. He would/should never be directly involved with the Tracksuit mafia or even Kazi. There should be 2-4 other people in the "management" chain between him and Kazi. He didn't feel like he was in charge of the city. I am happy that he was able to take and survive a bunch of stabbings and explosions though, and that he was a bruiser of a fighter.

I wouldn't call it a pos episode but it certainly was disappointing and I had a feeling it would be once I found out about the 2 different directors.
 
Lmao this was a "whoops, we're at the last episode, better wrap things up no matter how convoluted and ridiculous we do it" kind of episode if I have ever seen one.

It sincerely rendered a lot of the story beats leading up to this episode really useless, and pointless, for a totally tidy bow of an ending.

I was actually really getting into the show with the past 3 - 4 episodes, but man, that final episode had way too many things happening for very dumb reasons just to move the plot forward.

And lmao Maya was such a pointless character whose arc just flipped itself with a snap of a finger and she turned "good" out of nowhere.

Should have just made this 8 episodes instead of this really convoluted mess of an season finale.
 

Mossybrew

Member
This was a silly show from the getgo and it ended in similar fashion. Felt kinda like a YA Marvel show for teens. Love how long that ending fight goes on with no sign of police, then when they finally show up, they somehow are just there to arrest the mom and know right where to go despite the huge terrorist event going on. Lol so fuckin dumb.
 

Javthusiast

Member
Tv Land Lol GIF by nobodies.
 

trikster40

Member
Just watched the finale.


Wait wait wait. I know kingpins not really dead. Right? Right? No body, no dead, right? Ugh. Missed him in this a bit, he’d have crushed Kate like an ant. She wouldn’t have taken that first punch from him. And how did her mom manage to speed off and come back at a 90 degree angle to plow into him going that fast in like 3 seconds?

So Clint’s wife was in SHIELD? That’s the big hoopla over the watch? Worth dying over? I don’t get it.
 

GeorgPrime

Banned
Just watched the finale.


Wait wait wait. I know kingpins not really dead. Right? Right? No body, no dead, right? Ugh. Missed him in this a bit, he’d have crushed Kate like an ant. She wouldn’t have taken that first punch from him. And how did her mom manage to speed off and come back at a 90 degree angle to plow into him going that fast in like 3 seconds?

So Clint’s wife was in SHIELD? That’s the big hoopla over the watch? Worth dying over? I don’t get it.

You can be 100 % that he is not dead. He took Kates arrows like nothing when she shot him. He survived a whole explosion and went away like nothing.
 

ManaByte

Member
Just watched the finale.


Wait wait wait. I know kingpins not really dead. Right? Right? No body, no dead, right? Ugh. Missed him in this a bit, he’d have crushed Kate like an ant. She wouldn’t have taken that first punch from him. And how did her mom manage to speed off and come back at a 90 degree angle to plow into him going that fast in like 3 seconds?

So Clint’s wife was in SHIELD? That’s the big hoopla over the watch? Worth dying over? I don’t get it.
He‘s not dead. They’re doing the storyline from the comics where Echo shoots him.
 

MrMephistoX

Member
He took several arrows of Kate like nothing and some explosions. We already know that one bullet wont kill him
Been a while since I saw DD but didn’t he also have a bullet proof vest made out of the same material as DD’s suit? It’s fucking awesome to have them both back TBH and I recall a big plot point of DD season 1 was Fisk buying up real estate damaged in the Battle of New York so my bet is on it all being MCU canon but he’s just not an avengers level threat as they say and Cap and Iron man were never crime fighters like Spidey or DD to begin with so makes sense Kingpin wouldn’t have even been on their radar. If DD is at least canon that means the rest is canon including Punisher and that’s fucking awesome.
 
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sol_bad

Member
Been a while since I saw DD but didn’t he also have a bullet proof vest made out of the same material as DD’s suit? It’s fucking awesome to have them both back TBH and I recall a big plot point of DD season 1 was Fisk buying up real estate damaged in the Battle of New York so my bet is on it all being MCU canon but he’s just not an avengers level threat as they say and Cap and Iron man were never crime fighters like Spidey or DD to begin with so makes sense Kingpin wouldn’t have even been on their radar. If DD is at least canon that means the rest is canon including Punisher and that’s fucking awesome.

Nah, not Netflix cannon. Just the fact that he is super strong and can survive an arrow that actually impaled him, an explosion and a car smashing him through a window decannonises Netflix.
 
I dont understand what everyone liked about this show. It had a budget, that I could tell but the way they made Kate invincible was dumb as shit and just ruined to whole thing for me especially Kate vs Fisk. That dudes punch almost put Daredevil in the fucking hospital and she takes 2 or 3 hits and jsut shakes them off like ti was nothing and not just then but everytime she fought the russians, she would get hit so much that even clint, hell even FUCKING BATMAN would feel that shit for days and she's fine. Thats it, thats all it took for me to name this one of the worst Marvel TV shows. Glad you ppl loved the dynamic and the show has heart but that simple thing pissed me off. Maybe I need to sleep off on it, but nah.
 

Lanrutcon

Member
I dont understand what everyone liked about this show. It had a budget, that I could tell but the way they made Kate invincible was dumb as shit and just ruined to whole thing for me especially Kate vs Fisk. That dudes punch almost put Daredevil in the fucking hospital and she takes 2 or 3 hits and jsut shakes them off like ti was nothing and not just then but everytime she fought the russians, she would get hit so much that even clint, hell even FUCKING BATMAN would feel that shit for days and she's fine. Thats it, thats all it took for me to name this one of the worst Marvel TV shows. Glad you ppl loved the dynamic and the show has heart but that simple thing pissed me off. Maybe I need to sleep off on it, but nah.

This show was the McDonalds burger of Marvel TV content. You're supposed to stuff popcorn into your mouth and turn off your brain. Don't overthink it, the show doesn't stand up to any kind of scrutiny. Don't think it was ever meant to.
 

sol_bad

Member
I dont understand what everyone liked about this show. It had a budget, that I could tell but the way they made Kate invincible was dumb as shit and just ruined to whole thing for me especially Kate vs Fisk. That dudes punch almost put Daredevil in the fucking hospital and she takes 2 or 3 hits and jsut shakes them off like ti was nothing and not just then but everytime she fought the russians, she would get hit so much that even clint, hell even FUCKING BATMAN would feel that shit for days and she's fine. Thats it, thats all it took for me to name this one of the worst Marvel TV shows. Glad you ppl loved the dynamic and the show has heart but that simple thing pissed me off. Maybe I need to sleep off on it, but nah.

Kate being invincible = bad and breaks immersion.
Clint being invincible = A-OK!!!
 

Great Hair

Banned
It had some funny moments, but the choreography needs to be upgraded from Unreal 3 to Unreal 5 asap. Kate alone wont be enough to carry Season 2 on heir own. She cant act "seriously" at all, as a sidekick ok, but not as a lead.

Episode 6 was the weakest. Terrible acting by black widow, Kate and her X-Legs looks like someone who has never run, done any sport in their life and Jeremy looked so "i want this to be over with, idgaf".

I dont see any potential for a Season 2 for Hawkeye. The first 5 episode looked very cinematic, episode 6 had a "TV feel, aroma" to it. Overall was more entertained with this, than with boring, whiny captain america and his useless buddy.
 
Kate being invincible = bad and breaks immersion.
Clint being invincible = A-OK!!!

Oh please, Clint was nerfed heavily in the show but yes in the movies that dude should've been dead a million times. I have nothing againt heroes being, well heroes, strong and filled with plot armor but most have a tad bit of sense. Black widows, Yelena included, had to go through tons of traumas and physical training and shit and gets served by some spoiled brat. Again plot armor is fine in superhero shows as long as it makes some sense, as long as it also shows the weakness, and how he gained the strength. Kate has none of that shit. She is as or almost as good as a trained killer with the bow just from doing archery in school? Nah it was shit.
 
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GeorgPrime

Banned
It had some funny moments, but the choreography needs to be upgraded from Unreal 3 to Unreal 5 asap. Kate alone wont be enough to carry Season 2 on heir own. She cant act "seriously" at all, as a sidekick ok, but not as a lead.

Episode 6 was the weakest. Terrible acting by black widow, Kate and her X-Legs looks like someone who has never run, done any sport in their life and Jeremy looked so "i want this to be over with, idgaf".

I dont see any potential for a Season 2 for Hawkeye. The first 5 episode looked very cinematic, episode 6 had a "TV feel, aroma" to it. Overall was more entertained with this, than with boring, whiny captain america and his useless buddy.

Everytime people say "I dont see it getting a sequel" it always gets a sequel because its a success
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
Oh please, Clint was nerfed heavily in the show but yes in the movies that dude should've been dead a million times. I have nothing againt heroes being, well heroes, strong and filled with plot armor but most have a tad bit of sense. Black widows, Yelena included, had to go through tons of traumas and physical training and shit and gets served by some spoiled brat. Again plot armor is fine in superhero shows as long as it makes some sense, as long as it also shows the weakness, and how he gained the strength. Kate has none of that shit. She is as or almost as good as a trained killer with the bow just from doing archery in school? Nah it was shit.

Kate didn't "just take archery"... I'm guessing you skipped episode 1 intro, some of the dialogue and the trophys but she also took up martial arts training as well. She's a black belt (maybe in multiple disciplines like Wesley Snipes and Michael Jai White) and it was mentioned. And she didn't "serve" Yelena... At best Kate was an annoyance to her... Yelena could have killed her 10 times over but she didn't because she was there to kill Clint. Yelena really liked Kate. All Kate was trying to do was slow Yelena down, not beat her... Which she couldn't do anyway. The show proved that.

And that fall in Black Widow SHOULD have killed Natasha or broken her legs when she hit that railing or pipe on her way down.
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
Or that rubble that fell on her and pushed her through the floor to where Task Master's cell is in the floating fortress... 👀

I think she has some form of super soldier serum. Not as potent as Cap's but she's on SOMETHING.
 
Kate didn't "just take archery"... I'm guessing you skipped episode 1 intro, some of the dialogue and the trophys but she also took up martial arts training as well. She's a black belt (maybe in multiple disciplines like Wesley Snipes and Michael Jai White) and it was mentioned. And she didn't "serve" Yelena... At best Kate was an annoyance to her... Yelena could have killed her 10 times over but she didn't because she was there to kill Clint. Yelena really liked Kate. All Kate was trying to do was slow Yelena down, not beat her... Which she couldn't do anyway. The show proved that.

And that fall in Black Widow SHOULD have killed Natasha or broken her legs when she hit that railing or pipe on her way down.

Imagine thinking black belt or martial arts taught in college/school gives you damage immunity or actual combat abilities. None of the things you learn in martial arts class were used in her against the russians or Fisk. She played and bested Yelena at the hotel when they were not fooling around unless you think Yelena is a fucking idiot. :) Also, I like how you completely ignore the worst offender, she vs a man who has rock solid skin and stood up after a car hit him. If you think that was because of her "training" you're a fucking idiot just like the person who wrote the show. Peace.
 
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jason10mm

Member
So many people skipped the first episode where they showed her training her ENTIRE LIFE.
But did she get the level of training Widows get, or DD from Stick? There is training, and then there is TRAINING. I'd argue Kate Bishop got the former. She's like a really good Olympic judo practicioner versus a brutal MMA fighter and we all know how that ends...
 

DragoonKain

Neighbours from Hell
Is this any good? I cancelled Disney plus and would have to download the episodes to watch and I’ve just been too lazy.
 

YCoCg

Member
Kate didn't "just take archery"... I'm guessing you skipped episode 1 intro, some of the dialogue and the trophys but she also took up martial arts training as well. She's a black belt (maybe in multiple disciplines like Wesley Snipes and Michael Jai White) and it was mentioned. And she didn't "serve" Yelena... At best Kate was an annoyance to her... Yelena could have killed her 10 times over but she didn't because she was there to kill Clint. Yelena really liked Kate. All Kate was trying to do was slow Yelena down, not beat her... Which she couldn't do anyway. The show proved that.

And that fall in Black Widow SHOULD have killed Natasha or broken her legs when she hit that railing or pipe on her way down.
You keep bringing up Episode 1 but none of that explains why she was able to get hit multiple times by Fisk and just dance it off. Fisk, the dude who left both Daredevil and The Punisher in a rough state when they went one on one with. Unless you're going to suggest Fisk was holding back too, which doesn't give Kate the best look in this episode when two of her big fights were going easy on her.
 

Batiman

Member
Is this any good? I cancelled Disney plus and would have to download the episodes to watch and I’ve just been too lazy.
I thought it was pretty fun but with a slightly disappointing ending. Was a good watch with the wife and son. Probably out fav marvel Disney show so far. Need some time to think on that though. It was also nice that they made it with Christmas in mind. Added a bit to of Christmas spirit leading up to today.


I’m also not sure why people still argue about these realism inconsistencies in the MCU after all these years. It’s comics brought to the screen. It’s why the MCU is successful in the first place and the reason why shit gets messy. Hawkeye was fighting aliens with bow and arrows for 10 years now and people wanna ask how Kate takes a hit from Fisk and survives….. Out of all things MCU that’s nothin
 

sol_bad

Member
You keep bringing up Episode 1 but none of that explains why she was able to get hit multiple times by Fisk and just dance it off. Fisk, the dude who left both Daredevil and The Punisher in a rough state when they went one on one with. Unless you're going to suggest Fisk was holding back too, which doesn't give Kate the best look in this episode when two of her big fights were going easy on her.

Kate survived multiple hits from Kingpin because it's a fictional super hero story. Same reason Clint survived against 200+ tracksuit mafia goons.
 

jason10mm

Member
I’m also not sure why people still argue about these realism inconsistencies in the MCU after all these years. It’s comics brought to the screen. It’s why the MCU is successful in the first place and the reason why shit gets messy. Hawkeye was fighting aliens with bow and arrows for 10 years now and people wanna ask how Kate takes a hit from Fisk and survives….. Out of all things MCU that’s nothin
In my experience when folks start nitpicking these types of things it's because the narrative weight of the story isn't there. Once the viewer disengaged from the story then they are free to rip apart the frayed edges until the whole thing falls apart.

For me Kate never acted like she was scared or even worried. This was initially refreshing but as the stakes, such as they were, kept increasing she never lost that naive cheerleader quality. It felt like this was all just a game to her, much like the larppers.
 

YCoCg

Member
Kate survived multiple hits from Kingpin because it's a fictional super hero story. Same reason Clint survived against 200+ tracksuit mafia goons.
Both of those things are stupid and ridiculous! The last episode felt like it became a looney tunes skit which is odd considering the previous episodes felt like they were building on something. Kate besting a Black Widow and Fisk, Clint taking on a clone army, Kate's Mom handling a teleporting car, etc.
 

FireFly

Member
You keep bringing up Episode 1 but none of that explains why she was able to get hit multiple times by Fisk and just dance it off. Fisk, the dude who left both Daredevil and The Punisher in a rough state when they went one on one with. Unless you're going to suggest Fisk was holding back too, which doesn't give Kate the best look in this episode when two of her big fights were going easy on her.
Fisk complaining that Kate was starting to annoy him, certainly made it seem like he wasn't taking her seriously as a real threat and just wanted to get her out of the way. And Yelena clearly liked her, and didn't want to hurt her. In fact Yelena straight up states that Kate would already be dead, if that was the mission.

I don't really see how that's a "bad look", since throughout the season Kate has been presented as a novice who repeatedly needs to be rescued. Basically she can take out street level enemies and can distract higher level opponents without being able to beat them, unless through firepower.
In my experience when folks start nitpicking these types of things it's because the narrative weight of the story isn't there. Once the viewer disengaged from the story then they are free to rip apart the frayed edges until the whole thing falls apart.

For me Kate never acted like she was scared or even worried. This was initially refreshing but as the stakes, such as they were, kept increasing she never lost that naive cheerleader quality. It felt like this was all just a game to her, much like the larppers.
She actually did, after the rooftop fight where Clint told her he wasn't her partner and she needed to go home and stay out of it.
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
You keep bringing up Episode 1 but none of that explains why she was able to get hit multiple times by Fisk and just dance it off. Fisk, the dude who left both Daredevil and The Punisher in a rough state when they went one on one with. Unless you're going to suggest Fisk was holding back too, which doesn't give Kate the best look in this episode when two of her big fights were going easy on her.

Did you actually watch it or are you going off what a YouTuber said?

It's been almost a week since I saw the finale but I'm remembering Fisk throwing her and backhand slapping her torso (which sent her flying) ... Not punching her in the face. He wasn't trying to kill her. So yes, he was going easy on her. Just like Yelena.
 

YCoCg

Member
Did you actually watch it or are you going off what a YouTuber said?
Dude, stop this, you've seen me post in enough Marvel threads to know I watch all of this stuff before commenting, I don't like what you're trying to insinuate just because I have criticised this. What you're trying to do is just low.

Pretty much most things about the final episode were a damn cartoon as I mentioned above, even stuff involving Clint and the clone army!
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
Dude, stop this, you've seen me post in enough Marvel threads to know I watch all of this stuff before commenting, I don't like what you're trying to insinuate just because I have criticised this. What you're trying to do is just low.

Pretty much most things about the final episode were a damn cartoon as I mentioned above, even stuff involving Clint and the clone army!

Alright. I'll let it go. Sorry man
 

ProudClod

Non-existent Member
A whole bowl of meh.

Show actually started out pretty fun, but really devolved into a boring, tropey, C-level comic book plot no one would pay any attention to if it didn't have the Avengers brand attached to it. This just feels like the TV equivalent of microwavable dinners. Gets the job done if you need calories, but not something I'd ever order from the menu.
 

Ulysses 31

Member

At least they notice too how dumb it is that the Avengers didn't tell anyone that Natasha sacrificed herself to return the snapped people. :messenger_winking_tongue:


That Catfight. 🤡
 

DelireMan7

Member
Late to the party, I just watched the show.

Well I liked it. Pretty entertaining for me. I like Kate Bishop personality.

I am conflicted on the humor for this show. All the tension during badass action scenes is always "disarmed" by some jokes (mostly from Kate). It's a bit a letdown for me since you never feel any risk for the characters but on the other hand, every single one of these jokes putted a smile on my face or made me laugh out loud so...

On the same topic I find that Yelena character was weirdly handle. She's kind of presented like she is a cold assassin who seek revenge for Natasha but all the interaction with Kate are comedic and remove all seriousness from her. (At the end of the meal to Kate's place, she clearly says something like "If you intervein again, I'll kill you". Next episode, Kate try to prevent Yelena and it's all comedy with the elevator and "fights" where Yelena is clearly not taking serious at all. But again, I smiled all along it.) On the other hand, this fits her depiction in the Black Widow movie.
Also she changes quickly her mind about Clint and her revenge...

I don't know much about Kingpin but he looked a bit "cheap" (looks to me he had a blowable costume below his suit xD) and the fight with Kate was weird. He looks like having superhuman strength and resistance, Kate takes a lot of direct hit from him (sending her flying across the room) but she always gets up without a lot of problems...

But overall, I enjoyed it. I now take the MCU for what it is : comic book adaptation. I just want to have a good time and this show does a great job for me.
It made me want a show or movie about Clint and Natasha relation before the Avengers era.
 
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