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[Lionheart1827]

You are either dumb or never played the original Zelda - that game had cracks in the wall where you need to place bombs. Aside from the whereabouts of dungeons (which wasn't that difficult to figure out even back then) it held your hand as much as modern Zelda.

Unless you were speaking metaphorically.

Actually there were A LOT of false walls in dungeons and other secret areas throughout the original zelda world that had NO way of knowing to use an item, whether it be the candle or bombs. It was basically trial and error on some of those secrets.

 

[Twig]

Have you played the original Zelda lately?

Have you played a modern Zelda lately? Because there's no way you can seriously believe what you said, if you've actually played a modern Zelda.

 

[bridegur]

The one thing I want out of an HD Zelda is a seamless world. The fade in/fade out between areas in TP felt very N64.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

The one thing I want out of an HD Zelda is a seamless world.

Twilight Princess was as seemless as the GCN could manage. I think EAD did a fantastic job given the hardware limitations.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I still think the real-time 60fps Zelda demo looks amazing to this day:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEF9Utdu-L0

 

[Poyunch]

I still think the real-time 60fps Zelda demo looks amazing to this day:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEF9Utdu-L0

That stuff's some really ugly modeling. It's really disgusting to look at. Their hairless emotionless faces are atrocious. :[

 

[_Alkaline_]

You are either dumb or never played the original Zelda - that game had cracks in the wall where you need to place bombs. Aside from the whereabouts of dungeons (which wasn't that difficult to figure out even back then) it held your hand as much as modern Zelda.

Unless you were speaking metaphorically.

Spoken like someone who hasn't played the original Zelda.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

That stuff's some really ugly modeling. It's really disgusting to look at. Their hairless emotionless faces are atrocious. :[

Artistically it might be bad, but IMHO there's no denying that technically it was pretty impressive.

 

[Retro]

I still think the real-time 60fps Zelda demo looks amazing to this day:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEF9Utdu-L0

I don't understand how people can keep pointing back to this 11-year old tech demo and claim that's what they want. Don't get me wrong, it was great back in 2000, but a lot has changed since then and that demo looks terrible. I really can't believe people can still point to that and say "I want this" when it looks like such a huge step backwards to me.

Maybe people are hung up on it because the animation is much more fluid than any Zelda to date... but it's a movie, not actual gameplay footage... might as well be asking for a QTE battle with the way Link and Gannon are moving in sync.

 

[Poyunch]

Spoken like someone who hasn't played the original Zelda.

.

Artistically it might be bad, but IMHO there's no denying that technically it was pretty impressive.

Well it may move nice but in no way would that ever be plausible. In combat the game would move nothing like that in a Zelda game unless the gameplay became very automated.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I don't understand how people can keep pointing back to this 11-year old tech demo and claim that's what they want. Don't get me wrong, it was great back in 2000, but a lot has changed since then and that demo looks terrible. I really can't believe people can still point to that and say "I want this" when it looks like such a huge step backwards to me.

I never said I wanted HD Zelda to look like that. I merely said it looks/looked good for a demo of the time.

Maybe people are hung up on it because the animation is much more fluid than any Zelda to date... but it's a movie, not actual gameplay footage... might as well be asking for a QTE battle with the way Link and Gannon are moving in sync.

True, but I do hope that Zelda Cafe has more fluid animation than Twilight Princess. That's probably the one area where I prefer Wind Waker.

 

[Retro]

I never said I wanted HD Zelda to look like that. I merely said it looks/looked good for a demo of the time.

I didn't get that impression from what you said, but it's not a big deal. It did look pretty good for the time and, if you ignore the fairly chunky models and such, still kinda does. But the style of it seems so bland and obviously upscaled-OoT, I dunno how it could ever work.

Not that you said you wanted it to, I'm just saying...

I do agree that we need more fluid animation though. I want Link to move with some grace, damnit. He's not decked out in heavy armor, he should be fairly nimble.

 

[linko9]

He's not decked out in heavy armor, he should be fairly nimble.

You try carrying around 99 bombs and a giant hammer larger than your own body. It's amazing the guy can even stand

 

[LogicStep]

My favorite Zelda game is lttp on the snes. Nothing comes close to it in my eyes. I have only played the original nes zelda, lttp, and ocarina of time. If they could deliver the same experience but in HD I would buy whatever console and play it.

 

[maeda]

Okay, so i've been thinking recently why even though i immensely enjoyed TP, something felt lacking. Actually i had the same question about 3 of the most recent Metroid games. I think I figured it out. I remember the thing that struck me most when I played older Metroid and Zelda games for the first time, it was the interwinedness of the world, the surprise of discovering a new tool and then remembering the areas which were previously closed to me, and running like crazy to see what that new area holds. Those things had an incredible emotional impact. Both Zelda and Metroid have become predictable in those areas. And I am extremely happy that Nintendo seems to be adressing those issues in SS. We need connected worlds like in LTTP, new cool, universal and original tools like Morph Ball.
P.S.: I get too overwhelmed while thinking about the possibilities of the eventual Cafe Zelda.

 

[watershed]

Okay, so i've been thinking recently why even though i immensely enjoyed TP, something felt lacking. Actually i had the same question about 3 of the most recent Metroid games. I think I figured it out. I remember the thing that struck me most when I played older Metroid and Zelda games for the first time, it was the interwinedness of the world, the surprise of discovering a new tool and then remembering the areas which were previously closed to me, and running like crazy to see what that new area holds. Those things had an incredible emotional impact. Both Zelda and Metroid have become predictable in those areas. And I am extremely happy that Nintendo seems to be adressing those issues in SS. We need connected worlds like in LTTP, new cool, universal and original tools like Morph Ball.
P.S.: I get too overwhelmed while thinking about the possibilities of the eventual Cafe Zelda.

I agee in that Zelda has become very predictable. They need to shake it up, and if you believe Nintendo, SS will do just that.

 

[maeda]

I agee in that Zelda has become very predictable. They need to shake it up, and if you believe Nintendo, SS will do just that.

It's weird, even though I have no hype whatsoever for SS, somehow I get a feeling the game will wow us.

 

[watershed]

It's weird, even though I have no hype whatsoever for SS, somehow I get a feeling the game will wow us.

Well we know very little at this point. I am definitely excited for the motion control sword fighting though less about every item being motion controlled. Ultimately the gameplay looks pretty much like every 3d zelda to date, so its gonna be the world and story that either sells the game to me or not. Really we just don't know enough at this point.

 

[maeda]

Well we know very little at this point. I am definitely excited for the motion control sword fighting though less about every item being motion controlled. Ultimately the gameplay looks pretty much like every 3d zelda to date, so its gonna be the world and story that either sells the game to me or not. Really we just don't know enough at this point.

Very true. I hope my dream of an absolutely seamless world will be fulfilled by the eventual Cafe Zelda. I also hope that SS will aproximate that kind of world structure. I was so dissappointed when I found out that the overworld in TP was split in regions, which were separated by loading screens. Even though they were extremely short, they killed a lot of immersion.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

Very true. I hope my dream of an absolutely seamless world will be fulfilled by the eventual Cafe Zelda. I also hope that SS will aproximate that kind of world structure.

I too hope Zelda Cafe is completely seemless.

I was so dissappointed when I found out that the overworld in TP was split in regions, which were separated by loading screens. Even though they were extremely short, they killed a lot of immersion.

Don't forget that GameCube only had 24 MB of main memory and that TP was truly massive compared to previous Zelda games. The Wii version didn't take advantage of Wii's extra memory AFAIK.

 

[zoukka]

The Zelda wishlist cycle always goes towards Elder Scrolls in GAF.
I'm sorry, but the series isn't going there.

 

[watershed]

The Zelda wishlist cycle always goes towards Elder Scrolls in GAF.
I'm sorry, but the series isn't going there.

I don't think people are asking for Elder Scrolls those games are basically real time rpgs. All the class/character options, the micromanaging, the economy handling, the endless side quests and fully interactive AI in the npcs. Zelda does not include these, and shouldn't include these kinds of elements. In fact Zelda shouldn't even have rpg elements like the fable games.

Mostly people are asking for a seamless, populated world with no load screens. A return to the sense of exploration and wonder that they experienced in past zelda games. That doesn't equal wanting Elder Scrolls.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

The Zelda wishlist cycle always goes towards Elder Scrolls in GAF.
I'm sorry, but the series isn't going there.

I don't want Zelda to look like Elder Scrolls, I'm just saying I want Zelda Cafe to look better than Skyrim overall, in its own unique way.

 

[shadyspace]

Well we know very little at this point. I am definitely excited for the motion control sword fighting though less about every item being motion controlled. Ultimately the gameplay looks pretty much like every 3d zelda to date, so its gonna be the world and story that either sells the game to me or not. Really we just don't know enough at this point.

The more I watch that GDC trailer (don't ask me how many times :lol) the more I'm into the motion control sword fighting too. It looks really well implemented and having to slash in specific ways for specific enemies looks awesome. That said, I really am worried about what I've seen of the sword constantly being tracked by your movement and the potential for derp that has (the E3 trailer where Link's running around with his arm outstretched and he's holding the sword vertically? Ugh).

 

[herzogzwei1989]

That said, I really am worried about what I've seen of the sword constantly being tracked by your movement and the potential for derp that has (the E3 trailer where Link's running around with his arm outstretched and he's holding the sword vertically? Ugh).

Yeah I noticed that too :/

 

[watershed]

The more I watch that GDC trailer (don't ask me how many times :lol) the more I'm into the motion control sword fighting too. It looks really well implemented and having to slash in specific ways for specific enemies looks awesome. That said, I really am worried about what I've seen of the sword constantly being tracked by your movement and the potential for derp that has (the E3 trailer where Link's running around with his arm outstretched and he's holding the sword vertically? Ugh).

I agree but it looks like that's how its gonna be. I suppose you can just put the sword away when you're not using it.

 

[zoukka]

I don't think people are asking for Elder Scrolls those games are basically real time rpgs. All the class/character options, the micromanaging, the economy handling, the endless side quests and fully interactive AI in the npcs. Zelda does not include these, and shouldn't include these kinds of elements. In fact Zelda shouldn't even have rpg elements like the fable games.

Mostly people are asking for a seamless, populated world with no load screens. A return to the sense of exploration and wonder that they experienced in past zelda games. That doesn't equal wanting Elder Scrolls.

You cannot have a huge populated seamless world without changing the core gameplay at some levels. How long was TP again... 20-30 hours if you didn't rush? That's the absolute limit you can have in a Zelda game and still keep it accessible. A seamless world might be something Nintendo would be willing to explore, but that has to do with game design, not hardware limitations. Dividing the world into clear segments helps players to remember where the last hookshot spot was and so on... same with Metroid.

Also I had plenty of adventure with TP and WW. Actually WW had the best feel of adventure out of any Zelda game for me and I've played most of them (not Oracles). Once you left the home island I was fucking blown away by the grandness of the open sea.

 

[watershed]

Also I had plenty of adventure with TP and WW. Actually WW had the best feel of adventure out of any Zelda game for me and I've played most of them (not Oracles). Once you left the home island I was fucking blown away by the grandness of the open sea.

I think this is the sense that most posters are hoping Zelda will return to. WW's ocean was an open world with very few load times, I think only a few cut scene masks as you approach certain islands. I still love that you can sail right up to the shore or dock of windfall island and get off right into town.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I was blown away with TP when I went out of the Faron Woods into Hyrule Field.

 

[zoukka]

I think this is the sense that most posters are hoping Zelda will return to. WW's ocean was an open world with very few load times, I think only a few cut scene masks as you approach certain islands. I still love that you can sail right up to the shore or dock of windfall island and get off right into town.

Well it's just another way of masking a load time really. And not all people liked the "empty" sailing, which surely is one reason we've not seen similar environments in Zelda's after WW.

 

[AniHawk]

I think that sense of exploration and wonder will return to the series with HD zelda and maybe even SS if they handle it right. Everyone knows OoT was amazing because it was a 3d world realized right before us. But personally I felt WW also had that sense of scale, exploration, and wonder for several reasons. One, the ocean was huge, though people complain it was too empty and it did get boring at times. Second, it was a whole new world, not like how TP's hyrule is basically a slightly modified version of OoT's. In WW we had all new locations and races. Third, sailing as a way of transportation gave the game a new feel, from exploring the ocean to digging for treasure and everything else I did get that sense of exploration and wonder.

I think TP was where the series lost that feel for a number of reasons. TP was a last gen game as we were all entering the HD era. The size and scale and plain graphical quality of the game were all lacking when compared to its contemporaries. This made it hard for me to appreciate the game like I did past zeldas. Another issue for me was the familiarity of the world. TP's hyrule was too much like OoT or basically it didn't feel fresh. And lastly related to the HD gaming part, by the time TP came out I had seen other open worlds better realized in other games. So that same sense of exploration and wonder was diminished.

Still I think Nintendo can instill that sense back into the Zelda series. Whether SS pulls it off remains to be seen, we've seen next to nothing of the world itself though I'm not too hopeful. The cafe version though will have no excuse. More capable tech, better able to realize large, populated, stylistically interesting worlds. Let's hope.

there's been a real honest effort to try and make the 3d games like the first zelda game, starting with ocarina. they planned on doing it from the start, but complications, like the 64dd not being ready in time, made them scrap it. majora's mask was made from some other ideas held over from oot, as well as a lot of it being its own thing.

tww's ocean world was their attempt at making a giant huge seamless world. it still has obvious loading once you enter a dungeon, but islands in tww act differently than villages do in the previous zelda games. you see it approaching, then you dock at the island and embark and interact without any sort of pause.

they were probably trying to do that with twilight princess in the beginning, when it was the direct sequel to ocarina of time, and the game that bridged the gap between oot and tww. the gdc 2005 trailer and the early screenshots hint at that.

who knows why they didn't go that way. my guess is that miyamoto felt it was too unfocused and made them go with what worked. maybe there were issues making a world like tww's on land in tp with so little disc space. maybe it's the best they could do if they had to basically refit the overworld to a different game.

i really hope skyward sword is that game. the only thing that gives me hope is that they've at least added more to the controls than just motion plus stuff. i know it's minor, but i think the stamina/dash system has some implications for the level design, and could maybe be a sign that they're willing to work more on the general structure of the game than just motion controls. guess we'll see in a couple of weeks.

 

[apana]

You cannot have a huge populated seamless world without changing the core gameplay at some levels. How long was TP again... 20-30 hours if you didn't rush? That's the absolute limit you can have in a Zelda game and still keep it accessible. A seamless world might be something Nintendo would be willing to explore, but that has to do with game design, not hardware limitations. Dividing the world into clear segments helps players to remember where the last hookshot spot was and so on... same with Metroid.

Also I had plenty of adventure with TP and WW. Actually WW had the best feel of adventure out of any Zelda game for me and I've played most of them (not Oracles). Once you left the home island I was fucking blown away by the grandness of the open sea.

Zelda TP was only 20-30 hours for NeoGaf members. It was easily a 45-60 hour game for most.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I don't think people are asking for Elder Scrolls those games are basically real time rpgs. All the class/character options, the micromanaging, the economy handling, the endless side quests and fully interactive AI in the npcs. Zelda does not include these, and shouldn't include these kinds of elements. In fact Zelda shouldn't even have rpg elements like the fable games.

Mostly people are asking for a seamless, populated world with no load screens. A return to the sense of exploration and wonder that they experienced in past zelda games. That doesn't equal wanting Elder Scrolls.

Sigh...but give me something to explore for. I want the Zelda games to become more RPG like in some ways. Would be awesome if I could like find shit and decorate my living quarters and just collect tons of stuff.

For once...just once...just one game...make it a loot heavy game. Get cool gems and special items and stuff to make you more effective against certain enemies. Get special items that allow you to run faster on foot than with a horse, or to glide around the world...looking for thermals to go further. Slowly as you build up your badassery you are able to go further and further into enemy territory before you fight Ganon...who should be EPICALLY HARD unless you grind up a bit.

Never going to happen and most of you wouldn't even want 1 little experimental game like this...I see how it is *runs off and cries*

 

[Buckethead]

I don't like fat child Link.

The only child Link I like is the one from Wind Waker but don't really care for them to retread that.

Something entirely new plz.

 

[watershed]

For once...just once...just one game...make it a loot heavy game. Get cool gems and special items and stuff to make you more effective against certain enemies. Get special items that allow you to run faster on foot than with a horse, or to glide around the world...looking for thermals to go further. Slowly as you build up your badassery you are able to go further and further into enemy territory before you fight Ganon...who should be EPICALLY HARD unless you grind up a bit.

WW was pretty look heavy, with different people wanting different things and a bag to carry tons of loot enemies dropped. I like some of that added economy. But I'm in agreement with people who want to see the zelda designs simplified, like less items and less handholding, and switched up a bit, less linearity, less dungeon--field---dungeon. Honestly for all the hate it gets WW was pretty much an open world zelda that had plenty of exploration that you could indulge in at almost any time. Great game that I feel a new zelda could learn a lot from. I also liked the combat in WW more than TP. TP got too complicated with all the "moves" whereas WW was all about that cool sense dodge. The using enemy weapons was also tight.

 

[apana]

WW was pretty look heavy, with different people wanting different things and a bag to carry tons of loot enemies dropped. I like some of that added economy. But I'm in agreement with people who want to see the zelda designs simplified, like less items and less handholding, and switched up a bit, less linearity, less dungeon--field---dungeon. Honestly for all the hate it gets WW was pretty much an open world zelda that had plenty of exploration that you could indulge in at almost any time. Great game that I feel a new zelda could learn a lot from. I also liked the combat in WW more than TP. TP got too complicated with all the "moves" whereas WW was all about that cool sense dodge. The using enemy weapons was also tight.

Yeah TP felt like a strange dance at times. The whole point of motion controls is so that I don't have to remember moves, my body should do the fighting. I liked the WW action button, even though you weren't doing anything, it was simple and felt cool to watch Link doing some crazy moves.

 

[shadyspace]

I always wondered how those moves were on the GCN controller.

 

[watershed]

After all this WW talk I suddenly remembered how loot heavy the game was. Not only were there alot of side quests where different npcs wanted different loot specific to certain enemies but you also had those cool orbs that were left behind after you killed enemies. Those orbs would explode w loot when you hit them. Then there were all the random items like the flower pedastals around windfall. Does anyone else want to see the next zelda be more loot heavy? I thought it was a great game design that made fighting feel like I was going out on a hunt.

 

[Granger Danger]

Damn that sucks. Oh well.

Just buy a PS3, jeez.

 

[Myriadis]

they were probably trying to do that with twilight princess in the beginning, when it was the direct sequel to ocarina of time, and the game that bridged the gap between oot and tww. the gdc 2005 trailer and the early screenshots hint at that.

who knows why they didn't go that way. my guess is that miyamoto felt it was too unfocused and made them go with what worked. maybe there were issues making a world like tww's on land in tp with so little disc space. maybe it's the best they could do if they had to basically refit the overworld to a different game.

In the "Itawa Asks" for Twilight Princess,they mentioned that the whole hidden village thing was once a sidequest,but Miyamoto wanted it to be a part of the main quest.I wonder if he had more requests like this.

I must say that no Zelda game has disappointed me so far with the exploration aspect.TP had only rupees,heart pieces,poe souls in their grottos to find and howl stones and insects on the fields,but it was still rewarding for me to find several hidden areas and treasure chests I didn't find on my last playthrough.Like the treasure chest on the top of the Lake Hylia's Light Spirit Room which you can only reach by the double hookshot or the money bags you can fish in the caves.Such little things are already rewarding for me.And even the first Zelda and Ocarina of Time had many hidden caves that only lead to rupees,so I don't know why only TP gets so much hate about it.

Wind Waker was especially great for exploration.Loot and over 30 isles you even don't have to visit,plus many other things out there like submarines and watch towers.I thought that MC and MM were also great with that,especially MM.So yeah,so far there was no Zelda game that I played that disappointed me when it comes to exploration.Some games may have a bigger focus on that,but there isn't one who really lacks in that.

And I already like what I see in Skyward Sword.The demo area is one huge area where you can go wherever you want,in which order you want.I hope they keep that this way.

 

[scar tissue]

i think they should take some cues from the elder scrolls
seamless world that rewards exploration, lots of sidequests and mini-dungeons
possibly expand the rpg elements (more different weapons, but no level-up)
and yeah, make the puzzles less obvious

 

[shadyspace]

I want to see this. But Links. In HD.

 

[Monty Mole]

I can't wait for some HD Zelda. My only fear is that by the time it finally comes, I'll have been spoilt by some Xbox 720/PS4 graphics.

 

[apana]

I can't wait for some HD Zelda. My only fear is that by the time it finally comes, I'll have been spoilt by some Xbox 720/PS4 graphics.

Nah I don't think so. The first batch of games won't be very fantasy oriented. That's one of the cool things about Nintendo joining the HD generation. You get to see the type of games in HD that most other developers don't pay much attention too anymore. Mario, Mickey, Donkey Kong, Link and Kirby in HD is gonna be really neat. I think we will all be surprised by how nice it looks. Look at the difference between ico/shadow of the colossus and last guardian. Considering that the Zelda team is even larger than Team Ico, think of an HD game with the look of Twilight Princess. It will be very impressive.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I can't wait for some HD Zelda. My only fear is that by the time it finally comes, I'll have been spoilt by some Xbox 720/PS4 graphics.

Xbox 360 and PS3 graphics sure didn't spoil Twilight Princess for me, so I don't think Xbox3/PS4 will matter much when it comes to Zelda Cafe.

 

[From The Dust]

knowing Nintendo, they will prolly go for some funky art style for Zelda Cafe. they are always unpredictable when it comes to art. that's a good thing

 

[apana]

I want to see this. But Links. In HD.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Source Twilight Princess looks amazing. But Nintendo really needs to step up on the overall production of their products. This shan't be a HD game with N64 production values.

Definitely. Even more now that Iwata insisted so much on "the value to be protected" at GDC '11.

Twilight Princess would have been the best game of all times if it wasn't just so repetitive and empty.

 

[shadyspace]

Thanks for this. I couldn't find anything close to this, try as I might.


So, is anyone else still underwhelmed by the "Skyward Sword" title? It's the first console Zelda one that didn't make me instantly go, "That's badass!"

 

[Buckethead]

http://i1029.photobucket.com/albums/y360/DeadEndThrills/Highres_Screenshot_00051-1.jpg

Yes please.