shadyspace
Banned
Buckethead said:
More than that, I could not be more sick of the "Dark/Light" mechanic in Nintendo games. Never. Again.
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HD Zelda
- Thread starter apana
- Start date
More than that, I could not be more sick of the "Dark/Light" mechanic in Nintendo games. Never. Again.
I feel like this is what i would HD Zelda to look like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5XahF-3DWo
When watching this, at the scene of where the rain comes in, imagine if link would use some sort of magic wand to manipulate weather to cause certain weather/enviromental effects to change the inviroment. So that he could proceed to fight the boss that could mysteriously dissepear after few blows and wanish taking the thunderstorm with it. Or if played out right way somewhere around the map, proceed to tame the beast ala last guardian, soring to the blue endless sky , deep blue shaded clouds moving way revealing a distant gold palace shimmering in pure gold , trioforce gods flying besides you, moving lands and manifesting to the world as you play , helping you while you make hyrule a better place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5XahF-3DWo
When watching this, at the scene of where the rain comes in, imagine if link would use some sort of magic wand to manipulate weather to cause certain weather/enviromental effects to change the inviroment. So that he could proceed to fight the boss that could mysteriously dissepear after few blows and wanish taking the thunderstorm with it. Or if played out right way somewhere around the map, proceed to tame the beast ala last guardian, soring to the blue endless sky , deep blue shaded clouds moving way revealing a distant gold palace shimmering in pure gold , trioforce gods flying besides you, moving lands and manifesting to the world as you play , helping you while you make hyrule a better place.
herzogzwei1989
Banned
Hylian said:
Would be pretty awesome.
herzogzwei1989
Banned
I looked over that tech-demo again, I'd be very happy with an HD Zelda that looks that good.
Yeah me too, but what are the ods of this actually happening. I mean nintendo has been stuck in the dx7 era for over a decade. Mario galaxy looks very good , but not UE 3.5 Good. Dont get me wrong, i would have nothing better than to be be proven wrong by their ability to deliver high end dx10 level graphics like in that gdc tech demo by next E3. But i feel like the OOT era of nintendo has been vaning in its progression due to being stuck on so old tech. And has most propably been surpassed in these fields by a pretty wide margin one would think. So If cafe as 4850 level tech in it, it seems possible that nintendo is still interested in creating cutting edge software technology vise. (not just prettier shaders but really next level of gaming engine technology). Becouse why would they invest in high tech and not have any software to back it up beyond implementing the latest shaders and upping the res and all that jaz. I think that is very not nintendo like. If nitendo is putting 4850 on their next console, that means they have internal developments going that would benefit from such power beyond just running wii engines with high resolution and shaders.
I believe it might serve them well to search middle ware /graphics engine tech from outside source who has the expertise in the field (Like they did with SGI or Rare). Or is there any change that Nintendo would be willing to incorporate outside technology software tech vice? and who are the possible candidate if there are any?. Otrhervice there is a pretty steep tech/tools/ next gen develpment pipline valley that needs to be crossed even outside of graphics alone, before we can see that level of fidelity coming from nintendo in house development. But Nintendo managed that with N64 and later with Gamecube. But we all know that the sheer content and tech needed for next gen is a different ball game. Can Nintendo find a nother Rare to help them out or will they be overburned by the sheer magnitude of HD content pipeline, missing deadlines and realease targets for the detriment of the cafe plattform?. Or were those R&D pudget increases partly due Nitendo`s foresight to combat the arising sitsuation , balooning pudgets on their software development R&D, not just aquiring rv7xx and Pica hardware lisence?.
On the other hand Is it not truth that high level graphics programmers generally stay in touch with the techniques available and read gdc papers and the like and know of this stuff already. Even if the hardware they are working on is not feasible to implement them at the moment, they know what the next gen will be and have set up groups to reseach this stuff at time when it became aparent what next gen was going to be, and have acted accordingly. All for the best of the Nintendos software ambitions coming to fruition in an reasonable timeframe for cafe (Iwata is a dev after all).
To end this, if nintendo just is given 10x texture /geometry rate per frame. The games will look good even if they will lack the latest and the gretest engine tech. But i think it would serve to nintendo to really build up a next level of technology for its beloved franchises. Build them again around that tech to something fresh and new. Instead of slapping another coat of paint around a game mechanic that was invented in the N64 Era. I think its time to ditch the oot formula and build something new, just like they did with wind waker. But with New level of technology breating new air in to the franchise. Even if its risky, it would revitalise the developer in the eyes of the consumer. As well as give exiting new directions for the developers them selfs getting out of their comfort zones. When was the last time nintendo failed by going this route. I get the feeling that every time they failed to walk this walk, was a time they lost the battle even before it begun. Becouse they conceded to their confort zones and thus failed before they even started. Wii was an half assed efort in many ways, so was 3ds. Both of them tried to play it safe, but by doing so manifested their own failing by their own unwillingness to fully believe in to the project. Motion control was not a fad, but nintendo is yet to release a zelda that is motion controls beyond waggle and a pointer. Cafe could be a success if nitnendo playes its cards right. But that means they need to go the full distance, using all available resources and collaboration to achive that. Getting zelda in 2015 is not going to fitt the bill. UE 3.5 developed zelda would have a major head start compared to starting from scratch yet again, reinventing the wheel whitch needs no reinvention. Dedicating efforts to something that creates new with technology leading tech, instead of craeting half assed inhouse tech that will delay the project for even more years limits the top notch artist and creators at nitendo from realizing the full potential of project cafe.
I realise this went beyond the Zelda HD discussion. But if you just think all this in the context of next gen zelda development. I think the same problems and their sollutions will deside ultimately what and how The next gen Zelda game will look like. If its stricktly inhouse with expanded old tech. It will be bound to not be as impressive as something that would use similiar tech to that gdc one (at least if its indeed true that nintendo is behind the software engineering tech curve to the high tech west. Not an actually perceived fact becouse we have yet to withness a project cafe EAD Tokyo game to prove this point). But there is a change that nintendo will just brute force for 4-6 years to Polish that next gen zelda with another gray wad in aonuma`s beloved. And that will be good looking no matter the tech used ,becouse we know the quality standards of the company. But i fear that 4-6 years is too much and nintendo needs to shorten that cycle by seeking outside tech and collaboration specially in this point in their evolution to achive what has been proposed in this very thread in an timely fashion just like they needed that in the transition to 3d (where there also were huge delays in their software releases). Plus they need to use the tech available that is wowing the gamer, istead of reinventing the old wheel time and time again squandering their resources in trivial things and staying too traditionally self reliant in things that are hurting their ability to deliver. Even if it has been working in many areas, there is no reason to not to seek options that can work much better in others without sacrifising company ethos or culture. Ultimately what matters is the quality of their product and its ability to draw the imagination of the end user. Meaning that if Zelda HD Looks like what future soft/hardware tech is capable of. There is going to be a time when OOT is not anymore the best game ever, the same way as Mario 64 is not the best mario game anymore. (No offence M64 lovers, i Imorted usa N64 for just to play that damn game and it was amazing, but the standards have risen, cafe Mario 64 needs much more than better Shaders and texture tech, it needs next gen technology to wow us like mario 64 did).
So what do you concur gaf, insanity or cospel
.
End of wall of text.
I believe it might serve them well to search middle ware /graphics engine tech from outside source who has the expertise in the field (Like they did with SGI or Rare). Or is there any change that Nintendo would be willing to incorporate outside technology software tech vice? and who are the possible candidate if there are any?. Otrhervice there is a pretty steep tech/tools/ next gen develpment pipline valley that needs to be crossed even outside of graphics alone, before we can see that level of fidelity coming from nintendo in house development. But Nintendo managed that with N64 and later with Gamecube. But we all know that the sheer content and tech needed for next gen is a different ball game. Can Nintendo find a nother Rare to help them out or will they be overburned by the sheer magnitude of HD content pipeline, missing deadlines and realease targets for the detriment of the cafe plattform?. Or were those R&D pudget increases partly due Nitendo`s foresight to combat the arising sitsuation , balooning pudgets on their software development R&D, not just aquiring rv7xx and Pica hardware lisence?.
On the other hand Is it not truth that high level graphics programmers generally stay in touch with the techniques available and read gdc papers and the like and know of this stuff already. Even if the hardware they are working on is not feasible to implement them at the moment, they know what the next gen will be and have set up groups to reseach this stuff at time when it became aparent what next gen was going to be, and have acted accordingly. All for the best of the Nintendos software ambitions coming to fruition in an reasonable timeframe for cafe (Iwata is a dev after all).
To end this, if nintendo just is given 10x texture /geometry rate per frame. The games will look good even if they will lack the latest and the gretest engine tech. But i think it would serve to nintendo to really build up a next level of technology for its beloved franchises. Build them again around that tech to something fresh and new. Instead of slapping another coat of paint around a game mechanic that was invented in the N64 Era. I think its time to ditch the oot formula and build something new, just like they did with wind waker. But with New level of technology breating new air in to the franchise. Even if its risky, it would revitalise the developer in the eyes of the consumer. As well as give exiting new directions for the developers them selfs getting out of their comfort zones. When was the last time nintendo failed by going this route. I get the feeling that every time they failed to walk this walk, was a time they lost the battle even before it begun. Becouse they conceded to their confort zones and thus failed before they even started. Wii was an half assed efort in many ways, so was 3ds. Both of them tried to play it safe, but by doing so manifested their own failing by their own unwillingness to fully believe in to the project. Motion control was not a fad, but nintendo is yet to release a zelda that is motion controls beyond waggle and a pointer. Cafe could be a success if nitnendo playes its cards right. But that means they need to go the full distance, using all available resources and collaboration to achive that. Getting zelda in 2015 is not going to fitt the bill. UE 3.5 developed zelda would have a major head start compared to starting from scratch yet again, reinventing the wheel whitch needs no reinvention. Dedicating efforts to something that creates new with technology leading tech, instead of craeting half assed inhouse tech that will delay the project for even more years limits the top notch artist and creators at nitendo from realizing the full potential of project cafe.
I realise this went beyond the Zelda HD discussion. But if you just think all this in the context of next gen zelda development. I think the same problems and their sollutions will deside ultimately what and how The next gen Zelda game will look like. If its stricktly inhouse with expanded old tech. It will be bound to not be as impressive as something that would use similiar tech to that gdc one (at least if its indeed true that nintendo is behind the software engineering tech curve to the high tech west. Not an actually perceived fact becouse we have yet to withness a project cafe EAD Tokyo game to prove this point). But there is a change that nintendo will just brute force for 4-6 years to Polish that next gen zelda with another gray wad in aonuma`s beloved. And that will be good looking no matter the tech used ,becouse we know the quality standards of the company. But i fear that 4-6 years is too much and nintendo needs to shorten that cycle by seeking outside tech and collaboration specially in this point in their evolution to achive what has been proposed in this very thread in an timely fashion just like they needed that in the transition to 3d (where there also were huge delays in their software releases). Plus they need to use the tech available that is wowing the gamer, istead of reinventing the old wheel time and time again squandering their resources in trivial things and staying too traditionally self reliant in things that are hurting their ability to deliver. Even if it has been working in many areas, there is no reason to not to seek options that can work much better in others without sacrifising company ethos or culture. Ultimately what matters is the quality of their product and its ability to draw the imagination of the end user. Meaning that if Zelda HD Looks like what future soft/hardware tech is capable of. There is going to be a time when OOT is not anymore the best game ever, the same way as Mario 64 is not the best mario game anymore. (No offence M64 lovers, i Imorted usa N64 for just to play that damn game and it was amazing, but the standards have risen, cafe Mario 64 needs much more than better Shaders and texture tech, it needs next gen technology to wow us like mario 64 did).
So what do you concur gaf, insanity or cospel
.End of wall of text.
Granger Danger
Member
Been sick of it for a long time tbh. Probably ever since Echoes.shadyspace said:
Hylian said:Yeah me too, but what are the ods of this actually happening. I mean nintendo has been stuck in the dx7 era for over a decade. Mario galaxy looks very good , but not UE 3.5 Good. Dont get me wrong, i would have nothing better than to be be proven wrong by their ability to deliver high end dx10 level graphics like in that gdc tech demo by next E3. But i feel like the OOT era of nintendo has been vaning in its progression due to being stuck on so old tech. And has most propably been surpassed in these fields by a pretty wide margin one would think. So If cafe as 4850 level tech in it, it seems possible that nintendo is still interested in creating cutting edge software technology vise. (not just prettier shaders but really next level of gaming engine technology). Becouse why would they invest in high tech and not have any software to back it up beyond implementing the latest shaders and upping the res and all that jaz. I think that is very not nintendo like. If nitendo is putting 4850 on their next console, that means they have internal developments going that would benefit from such power beyond just running wii engines with high resolution and shaders.
I believe it might serve them well to search middle ware /graphics engine tech from outside source who has the expertise in the field (Like they did with SGI or Rare). Or is there any change that Nintendo would be willing to incorporate outside technology software tech vice? and who are the possible candidate if there are any?. Otrhervice there is a pretty steep tech/tools/ next gen develpment pipline valley that needs to be crossed even outside of graphics alone, before we can see that level of fidelity coming from nintendo in house development. But Nintendo managed that with N64 and later with Gamecube. But we all know that the sheer content and tech needed for next gen is a different ball game. Can Nintendo find a nother Rare to help them out or will they be overburned by the sheer magnitude of HD content pipeline, missing deadlines and realease targets for the detriment of the cafe plattform?. Or were those R&D pudget increases partly due Nitendo`s foresight to combat the arising sitsuation , balooning pudgets on their software development R&D, not just aquiring rv7xx and Pica hardware lisence?.
So what do you concur gaf, insanity or cospel
End of wall of text.
Meh, I don't see it. Since when has Nintendo not managed to push their hardware? Really only 3D Mario and Zelda need this big graphical boost. I think people will be surprised by just how impressive HD Zelda will look. Compare Wind Waker and Twilight Princess to fantasy games on the PS2 and you'll see the difference.
herzogzwei1989
Banned
Door2Dawn said:
Indeed.
Doesn't it look like a current-gen Twilight Princess area like just outside a temple ?
Oni Link 666
Member
Nintendo doesn't need help making next-gen games. Don't think for a second that the most prestigious videogame company in the world doesn't also have some of the best programmers and artists in the world. You really think someone gets a job at EAD with a demo reel that looks like something out of Wii Sports?
Cow Mengde
Banned
Oni Link 666 said:
Can Nintendo afford to hire them though? I mean, we've been hearing for years now on how bad the financial situation is at Nintendo. I just don't know if they can spend the money and budget for a game like that. I mean, if this fails, it's probably game over for Nintendo and they'll have to go 3rd party.
Oh and one more thing, the next Zelda won't look like that UE3.5 because Nintendo actually has artists working for them.
Bufbaf said:
Blizzard said:
Its not Rift, it's Tera. I grabbed it from the Tera thread.
richman555
Member
What leads you to believe Nintendo is in financial trouble? Nintendo has made lots of money with the Wii and DS. They also made money with the Gamecube. I think you are greatly mistaken.
herzogzwei1989
Banned
I'm sure Nintendo will amaze us with Zelda Cafe in HD. Their artists are second to none. Combine that with a console at least on par with, if not better than, the Xbox 360, which is an order of magnitude more powerful than Wii, and we'll see something spectacular. If Cafe is significantly more powerful than 360, then that's just gravy.
Always-honest
Banned
imagine them showing a trailer like that and the zelda music begins to play. FuuuuuDoor2Dawn said:
Oni Link 666
Member
I heard this happened at EAD when they were planning Cafe.
Miyamoto: Good news everyone! We're making a new system and it will be "considerably" more powerful than PS3 and Xbox 360.
EAD: Hell yeah!
Miyamoto: Anyone know how to program shaders?
EAD: ...
Miyamoto: Anyone know how to use Zbrush?
EAD: ...
Miyamoto: Anyone got Mark Rein's number?
EAD: ...
Miyamoto: (upends a tea table and storms out of the room)
Iwata: (laughs)
Miyamoto: Good news everyone! We're making a new system and it will be "considerably" more powerful than PS3 and Xbox 360.
EAD: Hell yeah!
Miyamoto: Anyone know how to program shaders?
EAD: ...
Miyamoto: Anyone know how to use Zbrush?
EAD: ...
Miyamoto: Anyone got Mark Rein's number?
EAD: ...
Miyamoto: (upends a tea table and storms out of the room)
Iwata: (laughs)
herzogzwei1989
Banned
Oni Link 666 said:
lmao
From The Dust
Banned
Oni Link 666 said:
oh come on, at least they know how to do that. that's standard no matter where you are
Imagine if that tech demo ran more than 10-30 fps on my PC. I can run Witcher 2 better than that, not to mention the UDK level is very small. I'm playing with it now to see if there is some sort of really heavy effect that kills the framerate, or if it's really just all the foliage etc. =(Always-honest said:
Cow Mengde said:
I'm almost certain there's a joke in here somewhere.
Seriously though, don't know where you heard Nintendo is in financial trouble, they have tons of money they're still sitting on top of and every quarter still results in a very sizable net profit.
If Nintendo has been gearing up for HD for years as opposed to a rush job they should be more than able to hire the necessary talent and/or just prepare well.
From The Dust
Banned
artwalknoon said:
I'm 99% sure he was joking dawg
I know. That's why the rest of my post (beyond the first line) made sense.From The Dust said:
But I think there is a concern about whether Nintendo will have enough content to impress us at E3 and for launch. This is more of a cafe in general point than an HD Zelda point so forgive the OT but I think Nintendo needs more than the demos they showed for the 3ds if the cafe is supposed to launch prior to next year's E3. Nintendo needs to show that the cafe is real, a viable platform, and damn near ready.
From The Dust
Banned
artwalknoon said:
good thing the Cafe will be playable on the show floor then
Always-honest
Banned
yeah, i knowBlizzard said:
herzogzwei1989
Banned
From The Dust said:
True. Just over 2 weeks to go, now.
If the Xbox brand wasn't part of the Microsoft Entertainment & Devices Division it would have died out long ago, it is a money sink and takes billions out of Microsoft every year.ombz said:
Sure Microsoft and Sony as a whole are less likely to go bust due to the video games side of things but the moment either of their video games divisions turn into such a negative that they are really detrimental to the rest of the company, they would cut their losses off and shut them down. That's no different then Nintendo going under should they suddenly lose all of their profit.
From The Dust
Banned
I take it you meant pre-recorded and controlled demo; I expect differentartwalknoon said:
KidGalactus
Member
They were tech demos. Mostly to show off the 3-d
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
Wait, of course it is. My bad, confused the gamesCow Mengde said:
herzogzwei1989
Banned
I hope Nintendo finds a way of bringing us HD Zelda on Cafe in less than 4-5 years after Skyward Sword. The only way I can envision them doing that is to partner with another company to help with the development.
Can anyone here stand to wait until 2015-2016 to have HD Zelda ?
Can anyone here stand to wait until 2015-2016 to have HD Zelda ?
Woffls
Member
Yes, and you know we willherzogzwei1989 said:
It took them 5 years to release Skyward Sword on hardware that they've not only been working with for a decade, but when they've already got the engine from Twilight Princess. I don't want to say it, but 5 years for HD Zelda is optimistic unless they really buggered up the development of Skyward Sword.
[edit] OR they started developing HD Zelda already and that's why Skyward Sword is taking so long! Yep, that's it, launch title confirmed.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I'd honestly rather we get one Zelda game a generation that is incredibly well designed instead of ones every 2-3 years.herzogzwei1989 said:
Wind Waker suffered for being pushed out too early. If it had come out in 2004 or 2005 and not listened to the whiners who were upset there hasn't been a Zelda game for three years, it would have been as complete as everyone would have liked.
The only real exception is Majora's Mask and that was a game that made great efforts to apply artistry to asset re-use. Considering the generational gap between Skyward Sword and whatever the next Zelda will be called, I doubt that is going to fly quite as well.
From The Dust
Banned
herzogzwei1989 said:
we'll have another handheld Zelda to hold us off
AceBandage
Banned
Skyward Sword - 2011
Zelda 3DS - 2013
Zelda Cafe - 2015
That seems about right. Three years after the Cafe comes out, 4 years from SS.
Barring a spinoff/collaboration with a third party, that is.
Zelda 3DS - 2013
Zelda Cafe - 2015
That seems about right. Three years after the Cafe comes out, 4 years from SS.
Barring a spinoff/collaboration with a third party, that is.
From The Dust
Banned
also, Shiek side game by Retro. don't forget that
ShockingAlberto
Member
Was pitched, was denied, never coming back.From The Dust said:also, Shiek side game by Retro. don't forget that
From The Dust
Banned
ShockingAlberto said:
BELIEVE MAN! BELIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVE!!!!!!!!
AceBandage said:
I hope a 3ds zelda comes in late 2012 as a holiday title. I know it won't happen but I don't wanna wait so long for the 1st, made for 3ds zelda title. I'm extremely curious about what direction it will take, 2d, 3d, WW style to continue the line of PH and ST or something else? So much potential but I don't wanna wait for 2013 plus the inevitable delay.
herzogzwei1989
Banned
From The Dust said:also, Shiek side game by Retro. don't forget that
Ack! I forgot about that :/
apana said:
Yeah you are right , after all nintendo could have foreseen this problem and hired new people, taken if they ever felt unconfident in expertiese and knowledge of DX 10+ level modern graphics engine tech. But i have to say that im more concerned on how long will it take to nintendo to catch up with software tech and how will that effect the allready prety significant, software dev times and in turn cause software droughts/delays/pudget problems, Will they be able to deliver HD Zelda timely fashion by doing all of this tech internally (Will they baloon up team sizes or just take a hit on the dev times?). Do you feel confident that they will be able to deliver on these aspects and how do you see this happening, more work force or just plain efficient dev pipeline?. I have to say that i would rather have nintendo build their tech than to buy tech outside of the house. this is becouse that will give them the ability to learn and tune their tech to match exactly the kind of gameplay they want to achive and also create unique look for the games build on this technology (UE Engine tech games tend to have similiar features). But they could take notes from these modern engines like the gdc tech demo (whitch pretty much what i would imagine a modern zelda to look in the future). It would be very immersive to traverse an zelda enviroment on that level of fidelity, It would eat a lot of ram and resources one would think.
Oni Link 666 said:
Don`t get me wrong, i agree with you whole heartedly. But still saying this, i keep thinking will they have the resources to pull their two plattform`s alone this time. All the other devs had huge pains in the transition to HD due to the learning curve needed to optimize their tech in the beginning, yes they are now profitable but that took some growing pains to achive that. Nintendo is going to have to handle this huge franchis catalog for the Cafe. As well as handling the Gamecube level 3ds development that is bound to take alot of more resources compared to the DS games. I hope they will able to pull it of. But i have to be honest that i feel concerned a little bit by how will they be able to pull this transition of without any huge delays or hitches , like happened with many devs in the hd twins. I believe in your confidence for them to be able to deliver, but will they deliver an incremental jump rather than a fully generational leap with totally new software tech and engines taking full use of cafe. Is Nitendo ready for that while hitting deadlines with all of its Blockpusteer core franchises without any significant increases in workforce?
herzogzwei1989
Banned
Hylian said:
All true. Of course, Nintendo's superior art direction would make HD Zelda look even better than that GDC tech demo, I think. Look how good Twilight Princess looks on DX7-class hardware.
SuperAngelo64
Banned
Yuripaw said:
Tera.
Super hyped for that game.
. I feel better now. "concerned mother calmed". Still not 100% thought In terms of technical prowess? Absolutely. Cafe will likely be capable of graphics that would make the GDC demo look like an N64 game. In terms of actual visual quality? Hard to say. That demo was likely mo-capped, and didn't really need to be interactive at all. A game that's equally impressive, but fully interactive would probably wind up looking very different in motion.Hylian said: