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Help Me Make Sense of This (Paypal and Ebay Chargeback Rant)

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Jan 26, 2016
10,487
14,647
915
I recently have gone through an interesting endeavor with a Surface Pro 6 I goto n Ebay that has turned into a nightmare due tot he device being damaged. Heres the scoop:

I wanted to upgrade from my Pro 4 for around $500. The plan was to give my Pro 4 to a friend whos really into art and would using the inking features more than I ever had. She didn't need the power she just needed the canvas basically.

I decided to hop onto ebay to check it out. There was one that had just been listed for $500 with a pen and keyboard. Seller had 5 stars on 71 transactions.

Description:

Used for just over a month. LIke New. No damage.

I originally intended to keep the keyboard I had now and give her the pen I had since I didn't use it. But this really seemed like best of both worlds. So I said fuck it and went with it. The device showed up 10 days later (Mid october)

When I got the device I turned it on just to make sure it worked and it all looked good. But I wasn't going to switch to it until I had time to move over my stuff. I decided to wait till my friend came over and I would just do it then when I gave her the old device. Fast forward, she comes over I pull out the new device and start to show her a few things on how to work it. But...the touchscreen isnt working. Start playing with it a bit more and it only is registering 1 out of 10 presses if that and only on part of the screen. Pen is jittery as shit. The digitizer on this is clearly bad.

So I reach on Ebay and the seller and request a refund. I hear back a few hours later and he says sorry, you are at 31 days and the return policy is 30. To which ,I check the dates, and he is right. I explain to him I just now had a chance to try and use the touch screen due to everything listed above. Comes back with not anything else and says sorry, you are outside the return policy.

At this point I really dont think the guy is trying to scam me and I suspect that he never even tried to use the touch screen. The device looked basically new and the pen was unopened, but the item is indeed broken. I decided to open a Paypal dispute.

Long story short the guy waits til the day before he has to respond. I do not get to see what he says to the paypal dispute. Week later I get the email saying they ruled in his favor due to "This decision was made because if an item is materially similar to the seller's description, we do not consider it to be significantly not as described."

Obviously, thats not true. The item is described as like new, and its not like new.

I call up paypal and had a feeling after the response I should record the conversation.

The Paypal representative starts by telling me the dispute has been ruled in his favor because he provided evidence that the item was shipped brand new. And I should go to my bank to see what they can do. She said the line about the bank several times and apologized. I said even if I got a chargeback through my bank, wouldn't you just try to pull it out of my account again? She said no. That wouldnt happen.

After a lot of prodding which amounted to me saying, I am hearing all different things here. Your email said the item matched the description which was a used item, but then you said that the seller provided proof it was new? So which is it? Did it match the description or was it new? Also what information did he provide to prove it was new?

She puts me on hold and comes back and says that the time frame is why it was decided in the sellers favor. And that the investigation concluded I damaged the item. When I asked how that was deduced she didnt really have answer. I then prodded more saying I would like to know what the seller provided to the case to prove it was new. She said he stated this information.

I asked point blank did he provide anything but his words saying it was new. Pictures, video, anything? She says no he did not. It was simply the time frame which was 30-45 days after purchase why it was decided for the seller and that I should go through my bank.

At that point I felt like I had everything I needed. I do indeed go through my bank and I am lucky in that that even after Paypal took their sweet ass time i was at day 59 of 60 to be able to do a chargeback. Will cost me $15 bucks. Obviously, i go ahead and say start filing the paperwork (its in the process currently)

This entire thing makes no sense to me. Paypal has a very lengthy 180 day policy to dispute a transaction. I have read of people trying to take advantage of this and basically use it to get stuff for half price or even free by simply doing a chargeback. But in this case it was 33 days after the purchase, 10 of which were spent in shipping. The nature of the damage to me feels totally plausible to not see right away. I did not attempt to touch the screen or use the pen when I first opened it to make sure it turned on.

So instead of being out the transaction fees for the transaction, Paypal will now be out $500 plus tax simply because the guy said it was fine when i shipped it. And also, at this point, I get to keep the item for the price of $15 which was the fee to do a chargeback through my bank.

I dont see any reason why they would have sided with the seller in this regard. It seems like way too much liability for them and the chance for loss is exponentially higher. The buyer in this case was not asking for half price or anything that would indicate fraud. (in my eyes)

Mainly just wanted to vent about the headache this became on something that I feel like should have been an easy return and get my money back. Also curious what other stories people of Gaf have in this realm.

This is actually the second time now I have been screwed by Paypal. I also bought a switch game that I ended up reselling. it was just the cartridge so it was insanely light and when the buyer got the item they claimed it was empty. It was an account with 1 purchase years prior to the transaction and they ended up siding with him. When I asked what I could do differently as a seller that would stop something like this, I got no answers. It felt like a place that was made to back the buyer in every capacity and not the seller, but guess I was wrong. That was they day I stopped using Ebay and Paypal for selling but I am now at the point I am not longer going to use PayPal in any capacity. Dont feel safe with them at all.

Am I crazy? Probably...but AM I?
 

Slings and Arrows

and Ceramide R
Apr 19, 2019
9,194
15,137
780
Away with the fairies
I'm surprised they didn't side with you.

I've sold damaged shit that i said was damaged, showed picture of the damage, told the buyer it was damaged, with pictures and a description and even included "no returns or refunds as the item is damaged/faulty". The buyer bought it, stripped it for parts, then complained saying it didn't work and wanted his money back. Ebay sided with Cost me P+P x2. Fuck Ebay
 

TeezzyD

Fantastik Tuna
Mar 18, 2020
8,651
22,181
935
Ebay siding with the seller is unheard of. Sorry this was such an outlier situation. Always check your stuff as soon as you get it. Lesson learned. Enjoy the $15 tablet
 
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Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Jan 26, 2016
10,487
14,647
915
No offense, Nikana, but he's right. Gotta check the stuff you buy, especially electronics.

Yes, you are crazy. How the hell do you buy a "like new" electronic device and not immediately try every feature to see if it worked?

I fully admit I should have tried everything but it just wasnt something I thought to try. Having a surface Pro 4 i extremely rarely use the touch part of the screen and pen so its not something I thought to try. I made sure it powered on and the keyboard worked fine. The device looked mint and the fact it powered on set me at ease.

My point mainly stems though it seems like this is such a backwards ass resolution by Paypal. Like this will likely work out in my favor, I just finished the paperwork to do a chargeback, and it seems like a lot of hoops to jump through for them.
 
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Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Jan 26, 2016
10,487
14,647
915
I'm surprised they didn't side with you.

I've sold damaged shit that i said was damaged, showed picture of the damage, told the buyer it was damaged, with pictures and a description and even included "no returns or refunds as the item is damaged/faulty". The buyer bought it, stripped it for parts, then complained saying it didn't work and wanted his money back. Ebay sided with Cost me P+P x2. Fuck Ebay

This is more along the lines of stuff I have heard of. This just seemed like a cut a dry case of, refund the money and give the item back. I dont see how anyone wins in this scenario.
 
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Reactions: Slings and Arrows

Slings and Arrows

and Ceramide R
Apr 19, 2019
9,194
15,137
780
Away with the fairies
This is more along the lines of stuff I have heard of. This just seemed like a cut a dry case of, refund the money and give the item back. I dont see how anyone wins in this scenario.
They're wishy washy with who they back. IMO and this is a total guess, Ebay will back the one who brings in more money.

Of the two cases where i was screwed over, even though Ebay broke their own rules, they did so by backing buyers who had bought a shit load of stuff vs me selling the odd old guitar and stuff.

I cancelled paypal after the second time as my account was hacked. Paypal said they changed all of my details and it would never happen again. "Impossible for it to happen again" were their words. 24 hours later i was hacked again. Never again will i go back to either company
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Jan 26, 2016
10,487
14,647
915
They're wishy washy with who they back. IMO and this is a total guess, Ebay will back the one who brings in more money.

Of the two cases where i was screwed over, even though Ebay broke their own rules, they did so by backing buyers who had bought a shit load of stuff vs me selling the odd old guitar and stuff.

I cancelled paypal after the second time as my account was hacked. Paypal said they changed all of my details and it would never happen again. "Impossible for it to happen again" were their words. 24 hours later i was hacked again. Never again will i go back to either company

I mean I know they arent out to protect anyone but themeslves but it just seems like so many of these cases can be viewed as an easy "win" for one side or the other but their policies end up in some backwards ass solution.

Like with mine, I basically have to say Paypal commited fraud and filling out a form saying I did not authorize the transaction anymore. And now they are out $535 when it could of been $10.

Like on what planet does that make sense?
 
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Slings and Arrows

and Ceramide R
Apr 19, 2019
9,194
15,137
780
Away with the fairies
I mean I know they arent out to protect anyone but themeslves but it just seems like so many of these cases can be viewed as an easy "win" for one side or the other but their policies end up in some backwards ass solution.

Like with mine, I basically have to say Paypal commited fraud and filling out a form saying I did not authorize the transaction anymore. And now they are out $535 when it could of been $10.

Like on what planet does that make sense?
No idea to be honest. Unless Ebay/Paypal can write it all off as something to avoid tax, i have no idea.
 
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Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Jan 26, 2016
10,487
14,647
915
ANd just to aid in my sounding of being less or more crazy...

I could equate the touch screen on this device being something like the headphone jack on a phone. I wouldnt think to test it out right away because its not something I use but once or twice a year. Maybe thats just me? I think about the some of the Xbone and PS4 controllers i have and I cant say that most of the headphone jacks work with certainity.
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Jan 26, 2016
10,487
14,647
915
So my bank ended up getting stopping the transaction and refunded me but then I got about 4 emails from Paypal. The weirdest one being that they tried to pull $486 dollars from me but couldn't because my bank obviously said no. But then in the same email it said, you had a credit of $486 that was applied on November 24th that we were able to recover. If you have a negative balance please add funds to cover it. But my balance is Zero.

So the bank did a chargeback of $535
Meaning they (paypal) would have pulled what they took from the seller would have been $486 (the cost after ebay took their cut.)
They then tried to pull that from me but couldn't then they said there was a credit of $486 on my account that was deposited on November 24th and used that.
So the seller seems to have been paid but it certainly wasnt from me.
Whats more wild is that my account hasnt been terminated or anything. According to them its fine.

This makes no sense.
 
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