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[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I don't get how you're labeled bias if you have the ability to read, see video, and do direct comparisons to each previous title?

Folks, This game as described and executed in video is nothing related to the previous hitman story/gameplay. This is 100% fact at this point.

Why on earth do you have to wait for HAZE/LAIR/Kane&Lynch/SplinterCellConviction/DukeNukem/etc to tell that its going to blow? Stop the name calling trash. Fans of the series are seeing the direction they are going, using their own quotes, seeing their(IO) own video, and coming to this conclusion. Its not a blind accusation. Theres no "BUH BUH YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED IT YET!!" I swear if I showed you a picture of a 3 wheeled race car with a backwards spoiler, no engine, non linked wiring, no steering ability, filled with concrete and and a wooden kickstand, you'd claim "BUH BUH YOU HAVEN'T DRIVEN IT YET!!"

Its ridiculous to claim that the fans of the series have to wait and play it, as if we are all new to gaming. You can always tell a turd before it shows up, well maybe I'm speaking for myself, but I know I don't have to buy every game to decide if its good or not, just like movies, real estate, vehicles, and pretty much any purchase.

I called it the second I saw the stupid ass Xray vision *OPTION* that alone showed that they are going in a severely different direction for the series, this was all then followed by them(IO) stating they are going in a different direction. I'd only suggest that people that know this garbage isn't hitman, move on. Let the people that want to play this generic stealth game play it, and pretend to have ever enjoyed a hitman title. No sense arguing, but dont pretend Hitman Fans have no clue/have to play this turd.

But you haven't even seen any extended gameplay footage yet

I kid, I kid. But to be fair, I actually really enjoyed Splinter Cell: Conviction and Kane and Lynch 2... while they lasted.

For me personally, I want to remain optimistic.

 

[JambiBum]

This a thousand times.
I can't even imagine how much of a stockholm syndrome complex you gotta have to defend a corporation that's shitting all over your favourite videogame.

It's not the fact that you are just hating on the game. It's the fact that you say shit like people have stockholm syndrome to a corporation just because they don't hate the game like you do.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

It's not the fact that you are just hating on the game. It's the fact that you say shit like people have stockholm syndrome to a corporation just because they don't hate the game like you do.

I'm saying that I can't understand why people would defend a company that obviously shits all over the fanbase, over series veteran voice actors and lies on twitter AND THEN go on to complain about fans of the series raising concerns.

Your persecution complex is totally unwarranted here.
There is no information yet that promised anything good for the game, so the burden of proof lies on IO and the people who defend this game, even though 90% of information seem to indicate that the game is going to be nothing like a classic hitman game.

If there is something that actually shows that the concerns are uncalled for you can act high and mighty. In the meanwhile you shouldn't act like you have any moral highground when it comes to discussing this topic.

 

[JambiBum]

I'm saying that I can't understand why people would defend a company that obviously shits all over the fanbase, over series veteran voice actors and lies on twitter AND THEN go on to complain about fans of the series raising concerns.

Your persecution complex is totally unwarranted here.
There is no information yet that promised anything good for the game, so the burden of proof lies on IO and the people who defend this game, even though 90% of information seem to indicate that the game is going to be nothing like a classic hitman game.

If there is something that actually shows that the concerns are uncalled for you can act high and mighty. In the meanwhile you shouldn't act like you have any moral highground when it comes to discussing this topic.

I'm not trying to act high and mighty about the game. It's the way you act toward the other posters who don't have problems with what they have heard about the game so far. You shit on the game and the posters. You shitting on the game is fine, that's your opinion. I think as of right now it is still unwarranted, but again, your opinion, not mine. The only problem I have with you is how you shit on other posters for not having a problem with the direction of the game.

 

[cackhyena]

I'll give it shot. Hitman was never something I could get into in it's previous form.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

I'm not trying to act high and mighty about the game. It's the way you act toward the other posters who don't have problems with what they have heard about the game so far. You shit on the game and the posters. You shitting on the game is fine, that's your opinion. I think as of right now it is still unwarranted, but again, your opinion, not mine. The only problem I have with you is how you shit on other posters for not having a problem with the direction of the game.

You are spinning this.
This recent discussion started with people attacking me directly for being vocal about my dislike for the game. I could give a rat's ass about what other people think about the game, but if you start critizing me for voicing my concers you should be prepared to hear my opinion about that behaviour. Feel free to read the last page of the thread to see where this started.
And look who started that "getting personal" shit
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=28783369&postcount=588
it was you.
So now either grow a thicker fur or stop attacking people for having an opinion that you don't share and then act all shocked when you get a response.

 

[cackhyena]

Thicker skin.

 

[James Woods]

Contracts gets a bad rap. It's a concise title after the bloat of Silent Assassin, though SA is superior overall.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

Thicker skin.

Oh, lol. In german it's fur so I assumed it was the same in english. :3
The meaning is the same.

 

[JambiBum]

You are spinning this.
This recent discussion started with people attacking me directly for being vocal about my dislike for the game. I could give a rat's ass about what other people think about the game, but if you start critizing me for voicing my concers you should be prepared to hear my opinion about that behaviour. Feel free to read the last page of the thread to see where this started.
And look who started that "getting personal" shit
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=28783369&postcount=588
it was you.
So now either grow a thicker fur or stop attacking people for having an opinion that you don't share and then act all shocked when you get a response.

I just agreed with the guy. I didn't start it. Didn't attack you. Agreed with someone.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

I just agreed with the guy. I didn't start it. Didn't attack you. Agreed with someone.

Haha, you teamed up on someone else because he dared criticize a multi billion dollar corporation and then you played princess and the pea.

 

[Munin]

stuff

You know, I actually am on your side concerning the game now, but your obnoxious snobbish attitude that insinuates anyone not hating on this game is either bribed by IO or a COD-loving dudebro is what ticks most people off here, and rightfully so.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

You know, I actually am on your side concerning the game now, but your obnoxious snobbish attitude that insinuates anyone not hating on this game is either bribed by IO or a COD-loving dudebro is what ticks most people off here, and rightfully so.

That was my response to them directly attacking me for disliking the game.
Some people here reverse causality, it seems. Just read back the last page, I wasn't the one who started this bitchfight.
And oh beware I ask them ironically if they are working for IO or doing the damage control for free after they directly attack me for voicing my concerns.

Just to be clear, I have no problem with them getting rude - because I know my opinion is a bit emotional when it comes to this game and probably evokes those reactions - but when you get rude you can't go start crying and bitching because someone actually responds to you in the same manner.
And that's exactly what happening here. I probably accidentally struck a nerve with my comment and that's all.

 

[Tacitus_]

Just to be clear, I have no problem with them getting rude - because I know my opinion is a bit emotional when it comes to this game and probably evokes those reactions - but when you get rude you can't go start crying and bitching because someone actually responds to you in the same manner.
And that's exactly what happening here. I probably accidentally struck a nerve with my comment and that's all.

A bit emotional? You sound like IO killed your family and ran over your dog. Excuse me for not taking your opinion seriously.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

Excuse me for not taking your opinion seriously.

Where did all the people who love the new hitman direction crawl out of the woodwork all of a sudden?

 

[ArjanN]

Where did all the people who love the new hitman direction crawl out of the woodwork all of a sudden?

I'm still not even sure Hitman is going in a new direction.

 

[Speedymanic]

I'm still not even sure Hitman is going in a new direction.

Genuinely curious, with all the information currently available, why you do think it's not going in a new direction?

As an aside, I can totally understand why some want to adopt a "wait a see approach", I was planning to do just that until the developers started to talk about nudging stealthier players into a more a action oriented direction, they revealed the removal of the map, that you'd have to use instinct in almost every facet of gameplay from acquiring a disguise to making sure you're not discovered, checkpoints, introducing flashy set-pieces...there's more, but you get the general idea.

It's hard to stay positive or adopt a wait and see approach when you absorb that information. It no longer sounds like the Hitman games of yore.

Blood Money is one of the finest Hitman titles I've played. It's also one of the finest examples of truly emergent gamplay. The fact that you can go back to it five years on and discover all new ways to complete an assassination is mind-blowing to me.

 

[ChocolatePuddin]

I'm still not even sure Hitman is going in a new direction.

I,ve only seen like a min of in game footage but it looks like they are keeping a strong stealth element going in this new one like they had in the older ones,it looks good though,I like the little touches,like when he reloads and the mag lies on the ground ,I know its been done before one million times but its little touches like that I dig

 

[Gvaz]

I have no faith this game will be a good Hitman game related to the ones before it.

I'll see when it comes out for real but until then, I'm about as skeptical as you can get.

 

[Speedymanic]

I have no faith this game will be a good Hitman game related to the ones before it.

I'll see when it comes out for real but until then, I'm about as skeptical as you can get.

The Conviction effect. (™ pending)

I honestly think if Conviction (to name just one of the more prominent titles) hadn't been released, we wouldn't be so cynical/so unwilling to give this and many other titles the benefit of the doubt. Conviction burnt a lot of people, so much so that it's turned a helluva lot of people into cynical bastards who refuse to believe anything developers have to say.

 

[OrangeYouGlad]

The Conviction effect. (™ pending)

I honestly think if Conviction (to name just one of the more prominent titles) hadn't been released, we wouldn't be so cynical/so unwilling to give this and many other titles the benefit of the doubt. Conviction burnt a lot of people, so much so that it's turned a helluva lot of people into cynical bastards who refuse to believe anything developers have to say.

That started WAY before Conviction.

I'll wait and see what happens. I enjoyed Hitman, but was always brutalized by the game and often times discouraged. It depends on how much more accessible they make and whether or not you have options regarding removing the features making it more accessible.

 

[zlatko]

I'm still super interested in this game. I hope they release a demo to try and win people over though since most of Gaf here wants to kill this game with fire.

As long as I can crank on the hardest difficulty to make the game challenging then we're good to go.

 

[Speedymanic]

That started WAY before Conviction.

I'll wait and see what happens. I enjoyed Hitman, but was always brutalized by the game and often times discouraged. It depends on how much more accessible they make and whether or not you have options regarding removing the features making it more accessible.

I have no doubt it started before, I was wracking my brains thinking of the first title it happened with, but could only remember Conviction.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

I,ve only seen like a min of in game footage but it looks like they are keeping a strong stealth element going in this new one like they had in the older ones,it looks good though,I like the little touches,like when he reloads and the mag lies on the ground ,I know its been done before one million times but its little touches like that I dig

47 shouldn't need to reload in the first place. Or hide behind bushes and in the shadows.
That's against the nature of the hitman series.

 

[derFeef]

47 shouldn't need to reload in the first place. Or hide behind bushes and in the shadows.
That's against the nature of the hitman series.

Well then good you still have choice to not kill anyone is Absolution according to IO. Except target of course.

 

[viewtifulsub]

I have no doubt it started before, I was wracking my brains thinking of the first title it happened with, but could only remember Conviction.

Deus Ex 2. A much cherished IP tarnished due to 'consolisation'. Fans felt betrayed, and ever since then, have been cynical to anything related to said IP (though recent events have changed this).


Anyway. Maybe Hitman series replay wasn't such a good idea. Hearing some of Jesper Kyd's work again really emphasises how much he'll be missed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSzVl-9Er9w

 

[Speedymanic]

Well then good you still have choice to not kill anyone is Absolution according to IO. Except target of course.

And yet they've also said there will be missions where you're on the run, like the library mission, which involves a fair bit of killing if you're going to get anywhere. Fair enough it's supposedly a tutorial mission, but with the whole emphasis on "47 is on the run", etc I can see them possibly forcing player into scenarios where you'll have no option to kill a few NPC's to escape capture.

Deus Ex 2. A much cherished IP tarnished due to 'consolisation'. Fans felt betrayed, and ever since then, have been cynical to anything related to said IP (though recent events have changed this).

The biggest one of them all and I plain forgot about it. :facepalm.jpg:

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

Well then good you still have choice to not kill anyone is Absolution according to IO. Except target of course.

How about you re-read the thread. You could try playing kane & lynch without killing anyone too, makes the game a lot harder and it's certainly not the way the game is meant to be played.
We went through this a million times already in the thread and yet people like you show up and disregard all the available information.

 

[Angry Fork]

Socom/Zipper is the master of developer lies/not understanding about the fans and bullshit like Conviction. Socom 4 was the final nail in the coffin. They didn't even launch Socom 4 with lobbies or a party system. They tried pleasing both casual and hardcore with stupid shit nobody asked for but didn't implement stuff both sides care about. Bit them in the ass in the end, Starhawk is how you're supposed to do it (based on current info so far, Starhawk devs understand.)

I was raging in the Max Payne 3 thread because of these kinds of changes. I was talking about the SAME shit you guys are talking about in regards to Hitman changes and I was shitted on. Everyone was like "wait until more info" "wait until ______". Max Payne 3 still looks terribad but I feel like i'm only one of a few that doesn't like the new direction, but whatever.

Conviction is definitely the game that put this whole thing on the map though in terms of changing shit that doesn't need to be changed, fucking with/lying to fans etc. I hope that Ubisoft team just makes a new IP or makes a Bourne game since they obviously don't want to make a real Splinter Cell anymore. Maybe these guys don't want to make the older Hitman stuff anymore i don't know.

I'm not big on Hitman so I'm not gonna rant or anything about it but I feel your annoyance because it's happened to me with many franchises i've loved. I personally think we've seen a bit too little on Hitman to give a definite opinion though. I'd wait until they show off a full level (like a 10 minute walkthrough or something), then you can make your decision from there. I feel the same way about Max Payne 3 right now even though I'm pissed off about all those changes, i'm still willing to wait for a full level demonstration before I rage quit Max Payne for good.

 

[derFeef]

And yet they've also said there will be missions where you're on the run, like the library mission, which involves a fair bit of killing if you're going to get anywhere. Fair enough it's supposedly a tutorial mission, but with the whole emphasis on "47 is on the run", etc I can see them possibly forcing player into scenarios where you'll have no option to kill a few NPC's to escape capture.

Hm isn't that the demo mission they showed? Some preview mentioned that you don't have to kill anyone in that demo. We will see. I am open minded about pacing it with a little bit more action.

How about you re-read the thread. You could try playing kane & lynch without killing anyone too, makes the game a lot harder and it's certainly not the way the game is meant to be played.
We went through this a million times already in the thread and yet people like you show up and disregard all the available information.

I have no idea what that means. They said you have the option to only kill target, like in the previews Hitman games, and that is a good thing, no?

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

I have no idea what that means. They said you have the option to only kill target, like in the previews Hitman games, and that is a good thing, no?

Read the thread again, there is littereally no point in repeating myself to explain it to you again.
We had this argument like a billion times again.
You should read all the interviews and previews.

 

[Speedymanic]

Hm isn't that the demo mission they showed? Some preview mentioned that you don't have to kill anyone in that demo. We will see. I am open minded about pacing it with a little bit more action.

It may be possible not to kill anyone, but I expect not doing so in situations where the game is built around you at least killing once/twice/x amount of times will make it significantly harder, probably to the point where it becomes tedious.

That's totally fair, but I'm not. I want a more evolved Blood Money. They perfected the formula, the sandbox levels, the emergent gamplay, the lack of handholding, all of it was just amazing. (all they had to do was tweak the AI, implement a few changes here and there and bump the visuals)

It's what I've come to expect from the Hitman series, there really isn't the need for what is looking like a such a drastic shift in gameplay from BM.

I hate to come back to it, but it's feeling like Splinter Cell all over again. CT perfected the formula, all they had to do was tweak/build on it and instead of doing that we got Conviction.

 

[derFeef]

Read the thread again, there is littereally no point in repeating myself to explain it to you again.
We had this argument like a billion times again.
You should read all the interviews and previews.

Done and done, was here day1. I still don't understand your argument.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

Done and done, was here day1. I still don't understand your argument.

My argument is that the game seems to be only hitman in name as proven by numerous previews and interviews.
If you were here since day one and you still do damage control for this piece of shit in the making I can't really help you.

 

[Tacitus_]

Where did all the people who love the new hitman direction crawl out of the woodwork all of a sudden?

Just because I don't act like the world's ending means I love the new direction? Come on now. The new direction seems to suck compared to Blood Money (and the way they're handling Bateson and Kyd is abysmal) but the amount of hyperbole you're spewing is just silly.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

Just because I don't act like the world's ending means I love the new direction? Come on now. The new direction seems to suck compared to Blood Money (and the way they're handling Bateson and Kyd is abysmal) but the amount of hyperbole you're spewing is just silly.

Why is it silly? I just happen to care about the hitman series.

 

[derFeef]

It may be possible not to kill anyone, but I expect not doing so in situations where the game is built around you at least killing once/twice/x amount of times will make it significantly harder, probably to the point where it becomes tedious.

That's totally fair, but I'm not. I want a more evolved Blood Money. They perfected the formula, the sandbox levels, the emergent gamplay, the lack of handholding, all of it was just amazing. (all they had to do was tweak the AI, implement a few changes here and there and bump the visuals)

It's what I've come to expect from the Hitman series, there really isn't the need for what is looking like a such a drastic shift in gameplay from BM.

I hate to come back to it, but it's feeling like Splinter Cell all over again. CT perfected the formula, all they had to do was tweak/build on it and instead of doing that we got Conviction.

Fair enough, all good points. I am giving them the full and blind benefit of the doubt here. It may be dumb and I may be disappointed when it comes out, but I am hyped about a new Hitman game for so long now that it feels premature to jump to conclusion because of one early demo mission.

 

[Tacitus_]

Why is it silly? I just happen to care about the hitman series.

Because you seem to worship it like a religion.

 

[Speedymanic]

Just because I don't act like the world's ending means I love the new direction? Come on now. The new direction seems to suck compared to Blood Money (and the way they're handling Bateson and Kyd is abysmal) but the amount of hyperbole you're spewing is just silly.

It's not really dude, imagine a series you really, really love, it's at the top of its game, it's the best in its genre and you've waited five long years for sequel...

And the sequel they reveal takes the series in a wholly new, action oriented direction and introduces features that make it more casual friendly and 'accessible'. :/

I'm upset over the new direction, but it's happened before with SC and Red Faction, so I'm more a little more reserved/chilled about it. If you haven't experienced it happening to a beloved series before (as I suspect Ahoi hasn't), it's understandable why you'd rage.

Fair enough, all good points. I am giving them the full and blind benefit of the doubt here. It may be dumb and I may be disappointed when it comes out, but I am hyped about a new Hitman game for so long now that it feels premature to jump to conclusion because of one early demo mission.

It's not dumb, dude. It's the right and sensible thing to do and I'd be right there with you if it wasn't for SC, Red Faction, etc.

I'll be tabs on it though and will happily eat my words and apologise unreservedly to IOI if they do deliver a Hitman experience that's on par or better than Blood Money.

 

[Tacitus_]

It's not really dude, imagine a series you really, really love, it's at the top of its game, it's the best in its genre and you've waited five long years for sequel...

And the sequel they reveal takes the series in a wholly new, action oriented direction and introduces features that make it more casual friendly and 'accessible'. :/

I'm upset over the new direction, but it's happened before with SC and Red Faction, so I'm more a little more reserved/chilled about it. If you haven't experienced it happening to a beloved series before (as I suspect Ahoi hasn't), it's understandable why you'd rage.

Yeah, I've seen it happen before and I stopped raging about devs doing injustice to their series when I played WoW. Then there's the fact that outside of their abysmal actions with Bateson and Kyd, the complaints are based on a set-pieced-E3-casual-action-action-hype piece.

 

[Gvaz]

47 shouldn't need to reload in the first place. Or hide behind bushes and in the shadows.
That's against the nature of the hitman series.

If you die in a game, you're a bad player and therefore should find another hobby. QED

 

[cackhyena]

47 shouldn't need to reload in the first place. Or hide behind bushes and in the shadows.
That's against the nature of the hitman series.

Wait, wait. Are you joking here? Tell me you're joking.

 

[Servizio]

Conviction is definitely the game that put this whole thing on the map though in terms of changing shit that doesn't need to be changed, fucking with/lying to fans etc. I hope that Ubisoft team just makes a new IP or makes a Bourne game since they obviously don't want to make a real Splinter Cell anymore. Maybe these guys don't want to make the older Hitman stuff anymore i don't know.

I may be rumor mongering here, but I was under the impression that several members of the original Hitman team were let go recently. All I can find about it though are some news stories form last year about some non-specific layoffs, 30 people out of about 200. May or may not have been working on Hitman, or a non disclosed project. I'm curious now if the folks responsible for how the originals played are now loose in the industry bringing that Hitman flavor to other titles.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

Wait, wait. Are you joking here? Tell me you're joking.

You never played a hitman game before?
Hitman is all about hiding in plain sight. The moment you fire more than a bullet you already fucked up. Hitman is not about hiding in shadows and performing cinematic takedowns on traffic cops.

We discussed this already in the thread, feel free to read - because there is nothing more annoying and than someone bumbling into a thread, acting all smug before getting told into oblivion.

 

[derFeef]

We discussed this already in the thread, feel free to read - because there is nothing more annoying and than someone bumbling into a thread, acting all smug before getting told into oblivion.

You know that people can have different opinions and may like things some don't etc. - right?
People like to discuss and argue, this is a discussion forum in th end. No need to tell us we should re-read the thread because people disagree with you.

 

[Interfectum]

You never played a hitman game before?
Hitman is all about hiding in plain sight. The moment you fire more than a bullet you already fucked up. Hitman is not about hiding in shadows and performing cinematic takedowns on traffic cops.

This.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

You know that people can have different opinions and may like things some don't etc. - right?
People like to discuss and argue, this is a discussion forum in th end. No need to tell us we should re-read the thread because people disagree with you.

I'm asking you to re-read the thread because the points you bring up have been discussed to death already.
There would be no point in bringing them up over and over again because you didn't bother to read the thread.
You can see that all your points and questions have been answered several times already.

I almost feel like bill murray in groundhog day...

 

[Duffyside]

Oh boy at this thread. People are going to take "credit" when IO releases actual extended gameplay footage showing that this is the Hitman everyone has wanted, aren't they?

Gamespot heaped effusive praise on this game. Arthur Gies, a serious Hitman fanboy, has said he doesn't know why IO chose to show the footage they did at E3, or why so many game sites didn't pay it any coverage, because from his extended playtime this is the game Hitman fans have always wanted, and it looks "amazing." Other media outlets, the few that gave this game any real coverage, have said similar things. IO themselves have responded to criticism and questions from fans, saying "yes yes, of course that feature's there. This is Hitman!"

But yet, people are freaking out like the world is ending. I'd be ok with this is when the game is actually shown in detail, people were to just man up and say "boy, did I over-react. This looks great!" But we all know that's not what's going to happen...

 

[MMaRsu]

Oh boy at this thread. People are going to take "credit" when IO releases actual extended gameplay footage showing that this is the Hitman everyone has wanted, aren't they?

Gamespot heaped effusive praise on this game. Arthur Gies, a serious Hitman fanboy, has said he doesn't know why IO chose to show the footage they did at E3, or why so many game sites didn't pay it any coverage, because from his extended playtime this is the game Hitman fans have always wanted, and it looks "amazing." Other media outlets, the few that gave this game any real coverage, have said similar things. IO themselves have responded to criticism and questions from fans, saying "yes yes, of course that feature's there. This is Hitman!"

But yet, people are freaking out like the world is ending. I'd be ok with this is when the game is actually shown in detail, people were to just man up and say "boy, did I over-react. This looks great!" But we all know that's not what's going to happen...

Hilary whatshisname from IGN said GTAIV was the best GTA, nay best game ever or something and he sure was right wasn't he?

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

But yet, people are freaking out like the world is ending. I'd be ok with this is when the game is actually shown in detail, people were to just man up and say "boy, did I over-react. This looks great!" But we all know that's not what's going to happen...

I said several times that I'd be the first to change my opinion when the game actually ends up being better than expected. But so far everything points towards the game being a steaming pile of casualized garbage with a grumpy growling 47, full of generic anger.