JimmyJones
Banned
It's going to end up being some trans dude and the SJW's will go nuclear.
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HOAX: Female Pro Overwatch Player Ellie Quits After Harassment and Threats (Updated: Read OP)
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TeamGhobad
Banned
oh i did. being female in gaming comes with a lot of perks. a woman half as good as a man gets a lot more praise in the esports circuit.
i rather a real woman takes up those coveted spots instead of guys pretending to be female. its a shame some of u don't realize we were dealing with a charlatan.
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“Elle” was not just simply criticized here. You know the difference. That said, are presenting your criticism as an argument for the online harassment of “Elle”?
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TeamGhobad
Banned
woot?
StormCell
Member
No, I am arguing the skepticism from the competitive community is warranted. I've only semi read two articles on this story now, and for some reason they think a banned competitor is pretending to be this girl. I don't think people need to be messaging with mean-spirited intent or threatening her even if there was more evidence than mere suspicion. I just think the community is justified in seeking more clarity into the identity of the girl.
Oh the humanity! How will you sleep at night or let alone breath without a livestream and court notorized report of the genitalia between “Elle’s” legs.
Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
My take away from this is that a large part of this suspicion comes from the belief that they didn't pay their dues. Some anonymous person suddenly shows up in a professional esports team, and people are wondering who this person is and where they came from. They can't come from nowhere, so they must be someone that the community has seen before or played against before. You don't see Tuxedo Mask save the day with an expertly timed rose throw and not wonder what his secret identity is.
I doubt we'll ever see or hear from "Ellie" again, so really, it's a moot point.
WaterAstro
Member
Then why not stick it out until the esports organizations can put rules in place? Why run away immediately before the governing bodies can address the issue in order to protect her choice of hiding her identity?
I will raise the possibility that the Overwatch league asked her to correct her application and that's when she quit. A lot of things are possible at this point with not enough information.
But you should imagine how something like this could be taken advantage of in terms of cheating. What if, in real life, Ellie got sick, but because the esports don't know her real identity, the coach of the team can just pose as Ellie and play in her place, which is cheating. I think you believe that the esports league can confirm that the person is there and keep the identity secret, but that's just a logistical nightmare. Is the Overwatch league going to start keeping a super secret database of anonymous esports players from now on? What's the point of that extra work?
Edit: I just thought up of how absurd is keeping your identity secret as a professional player. What if the team needs to go to China or something. They would need to apply for visas. These things become public. Is Ellie going to China with a fake name? Yeah, that's not going to happen. Is Ellie never going to participate in public viewed tournaments? Seems like what's the point of getting her to join the team in the first place. Even if she's just a practice partner, you need that person to follow the team. There's just way too many issues with keeping the identity a secret.
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StormCell
Member
No, you and
The Wise Old Man
are making this only about online harassment. There are other aspects of this topic to discuss apart from dumb people being mean online.
Blood Borne
Member
I hope people don’t misconstrue my statement as taking sides with idiots that harassed and threatened her.
Her suddenly appearing out of nowhere and quitting, in addition to her teammates not aggressively defending her sort of lends credence to the theory that the player might really be a dude.
Her suddenly appearing out of nowhere and quitting, in addition to her teammates not aggressively defending her sort of lends credence to the theory that the player might really be a dude.
TeamGhobad
Banned
first of all thats disgusting. second of all i don't care at all. what i do care about is people questioning someones identity without it being labeled as "harassment". i know people like you like to circlejerk to the faux-rage when you read about some "poor minority" being abused online but thats over on the other forum.
TrainedRage
Banned
How can you be a sensitive gamer? Like why? Shit talking in games is as old as games. Maybe I have thick skin but when you are being paid to play videogames for a living you should be able to take some shit.
StormCell
Member
I'm right there with you. I feel like a couple of people are running through this thread pointing fingers at others and accusing them of supporting harassment. It makes the topic feel like "You're either for Ellie or you're in favor of abuse and harassment." Actually, no, I'm both in favor of the community having its opinion as well as everyone leaving Ellie alone. I don't think she deserves anything at all.
StormCell
Member
Frankly, that it makes any difference at all what the appearance or gender of the player or avatar is is disgraceful. Why does anyone care? You've got one job in these games and that's to eliminate the opposition.
The only piece of this that mattered to me when I saw the blurb in my news feed was that it was believed Ellie could be a banned competitor.
Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
Well, you know, Ellie really is the last of us.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
What do we post? Dick length? I’m the most man!
The Elite
BOSS
DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
Musky_Cheese
Banned
Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
I'll show you mine if you show me yours.
Oh, who am I kidding. I'll show you mine anyway. You can't stop me from showing you. There are things in this life which you will see but can never unsee, the image seared into your retinas for all eternity, or until you die, whichever comes first. And one of those images will be my jutting jammy jammer. Well, part of it. You can't see the whole thing unless you crane your neck or are standing very far away... possibly some sort of elaborate contraption made of mirrors and pulleys... I don't know. Taking in the entirety of my majesty is your problem, not mine. But I do hope you'll take it all in.
Hm... Maybe went too far this time...
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I read this story earlier today. I think it sucks that Overwatch’s community is so toxic that you can’t be a female player without getting death threats and doxxed.
I understand her sudden appearance was questionable. I don’t blame people for having suspicions but it crosses the line from the jump. The other pro player threatening to doxx her is egregious.
There’s nothing else she could have done to prove it’s really after she streamed herself.
I see the posts in here “not everyone harassed her, some of us just had questions,” that’s fine but this isn’t about you. She was harassed and OW community has a stunning reputation for this kind of behavior.
No one is calling out skepticism. The harassment is being called out.
I understand her sudden appearance was questionable. I don’t blame people for having suspicions but it crosses the line from the jump. The other pro player threatening to doxx her is egregious.
There’s nothing else she could have done to prove it’s really after she streamed herself.
I see the posts in here “not everyone harassed her, some of us just had questions,” that’s fine but this isn’t about you. She was harassed and OW community has a stunning reputation for this kind of behavior.
No one is calling out skepticism. The harassment is being called out.
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The Elite
BOSS
At least buy me a drink first. Sheesh.
Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
You are allowed one half glass of water per twenty minutes of love making to stave off dehydration. Anything more than that and you'll get sloshy.
autoduelist
Member
No, I don't think they were defending doxing. They were saying people shouldn't be able to be anonymous in the first place since it would allow people to circumvent bans.
olimariOA
Banned
Why anybody listens to online mobs is beyond me.
She was given an incredible opportunity because of the hard work she put in.
If I could lifecoach Ellie I'd tell her to control her circles and her information intake.
Then make friends with your teammates, have fun, and try to win big.
Even if you fail there's no shame at this level.
She was given an incredible opportunity because of the hard work she put in.
If I could lifecoach Ellie I'd tell her to control her circles and her information intake.
Then make friends with your teammates, have fun, and try to win big.
Even if you fail there's no shame at this level.
autoduelist
Member
Its evidence someone has paid their dues, but that person may be banned.
Putting up an anonymous pro was clearly going to cause controversy, male or female. Sure, being female amplifies that controversy for obvious reasons since some people are shitheads - some will say a sexist things, and some will try to portray all outrage as sexist.
Basidally, her handle of ellie serves as a sort of shield against any justified outrage. If this was Jack, anyone with a brain would take issue with an anonymous pro since it could be a rightfully banned player. But because the user handle is female, any outrage gets called sexist and evidence of sexism.
That's a problem. Everything about this is a problem, and it all starts with a pro player trying to get by anon. The rest could have been predicted by a blind monkey that had any knowledge of the culture war going on, which personally, leads me to believe the people that decided to go anonymous knew they were setting a time bomb, because this controversy was a given.
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WaterAstro
Member
No, some people here are calling out the harassment in order to detract the real issue. Why aren't you questioning why she can be an anonymous esports player?
Famous people get death threats, men or women. The internet are full of disingenuous trolls that hide behind their anonymity in order to commit to the threats and harassment, so isn't it hypocritical to champion the anonymity of one person while criticizing the anonymity of another? If I was in her situation, I would champion my entry into professional esports because there's nothing to be afraid of. If there are actionable threats, the police will put those people away. If there are groups of people ganging up on her on the internet, then other people will come to her cause, but no one can reasonably defend her because no one knows who she is, and the people who are defending her right now are doing it unreasonably.
This thread is about her choice of anonymity. The harassment is just a subset of actions done by internet trolls where there are legitimate lines of questioning.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I feel like you completely missed my point.
StormCell
Member
autoduelist
is on the right track. There was a discussion to be had here apart from discussing harassment. OP chose to open by focusing on the harassment aspect alone.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
What kind of outrage would be justified? That it might be a banned player? Do you believe in justified harassment too?
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
The story is about harassment. This person. Ellie, was harassed. Period.
Helios
Member
Is she the only female pro player?
zeorhymer
Member
There was Kim “Geguri” Se-Yeon , but it was at a time where "dive comps" were king and she one tricked a hero that wasn't good against them. Aside from her, I don't know any others.
cormack12
Gold Member
There is the fundamental issue which is gender neutral, and there is an issue exacerbated by the alleged players identity. It's almost like this is the latest article designed to fan the flames of toxic male gamers. Don't get me wrong the thirsty little teens are odious human beings but being able to seperate the actual issue and the presented issue is what Schopenhauer would say differentiates the brute from the man.
Anonymous, new, good player signs with team;
Questions and suspicions about the players real identity as they just appeared on the scene and redacted their real name;
Players suspected that a professional player was masquerading;
The player was using a female name so asking for proof of identity is implicitly asking her to prove she is a female;
Now the arseholes talking about doxxing etc. are of course wrong. In the grand scheme of things playing a game professionally means you have to sacrifice some form of anonymity, even to be independently verified. Playing professionally is to earn accolades. Polygon done an article about a pro female player a while ago I think? And there are quite a few skilled streamers who are female. All openly identifiable.
Anonymous, new, good player signs with team;
Questions and suspicions about the players real identity as they just appeared on the scene and redacted their real name;
Players suspected that a professional player was masquerading;
The player was using a female name so asking for proof of identity is implicitly asking her to prove she is a female;
Now the arseholes talking about doxxing etc. are of course wrong. In the grand scheme of things playing a game professionally means you have to sacrifice some form of anonymity, even to be independently verified. Playing professionally is to earn accolades. Polygon done an article about a pro female player a while ago I think? And there are quite a few skilled streamers who are female. All openly identifiable.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Ehhhh this is a slippery slope to me. We start talking about what’s justified and what isn’t and I don’t like where the road leads.
I agree with that the assistant OWL GM said (I think her name is Kate): this is why so many females are on the Pro scene
Being a girl gamer seems to make other people think they are entitled to things
Frankly I hate that Jeff Kaplan rarely discusses the toxicity in his community.
I agree with that the assistant OWL GM said (I think her name is Kate): this is why so many females are on the Pro scene
Being a girl gamer seems to make other people think they are entitled to things
Frankly I hate that Jeff Kaplan rarely discusses the toxicity in his community.
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iconmaster
Banned
We need to go deeper
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Shai-Tan
Banned
This is a recurring conspiracy theory any time a woman plays on a pro level even in lower skill games like Hearthstone. They obsessively pore over "evidence" until it looks like it hangs together. Skepticism is met with "but it all looks so suspicious because of x, y z" then people with testimonials to the subjects bad character come out of the woodwork like any good witch hunt. Not saying there haven't been witches but the game community seems to think a girl playing a game well is so unbelievable it's up there with extraterrestrials landing
WaterAstro
Member
You missed the point. This story isn't about harassment. Stop using outrage to detract the real issue.
This story is about how a person can enter an esports competition anonymously.
Ascend
Member
It matters if you've been banned and want to magically get a free pass by pretending to be another person and using gender as the trojan horse.
Can we stop with this nonsense pretending that he/she supposedly got harassed because he/she's a girl? Girls that are good at video games get more praise than the guys ever get, exactly because they are quite rare. Guys/men get harassed a lot more online, and no one cares. This event is even a testament to that. The whole thing happened because people think she is NOT a girl. It has nothing to do with women-hating. This whole gender war narrative has to stop. This victimhood mentality does not help anyone. It only creates losers.
The bottom line is that no good player pops out of nowhere. And if that person wants to hide their identity, there is something fishy going on. Ask yourself. What is more likely?
1) This person really is a girl, is actually really good at the game but was somehow unknown, and wanted to hide her identity even though she did nothing wrong in the past, and knows she'll have to show her face in public very soon.
2) It is a known banned person pretending to be someone else so he/she can play anyway?
This whole thing smells fishy. It seems like another attempt at trying to prove that somehow gaming is totally flooded with toxic masculinity, with a fake story, or one that was set up like this on purpose to bait the hate.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
I don't follow esports, but is it common for sanctioned competitions and teams to have anonymous competitors? That seems implausible for a number of reasons.
A woman who was good at Overwatch esports would be in a similar position to Danica Patrick. Yes, you'd get some abuse from idiots, but the commercial opportunities would far outstrip a man of a comparable ability. Most rational women would embrace that.
A woman who was good at Overwatch esports would be in a similar position to Danica Patrick. Yes, you'd get some abuse from idiots, but the commercial opportunities would far outstrip a man of a comparable ability. Most rational women would embrace that.
woigemok
Banned
SJW with their fake outrage is the only answer with that anonymously.
Ascend
Member
Did she quit at the first sign of trouble?
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Why? They aren’t remotely similar games. I’ve played Overwatch since beta on PS4 and queue times are the same as always. I don’t know what the actual current player count is but it’s still a healthy number.
Grab a liter of your beverage of choice. Grab your favorite snack of choice. Search “Overwatch Toxic” on YouTube. Soon as a female voice is heard the team chat almost always flips out and at least one dude almost always decides to be “that guy” and take it too far.
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