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Hockey fans, AMERICA HAS A MESSAGE FOR YOU...

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Thaedolus said:
Oh no you di-int!

I'd like to see you hit a 90+ MPH fastball. If you can even see it.

Baseball is a lot more interesting than your standard "Here's a goal, there's a goal, put the ball/puck/whatever in the other goal" type of sport. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate hockey for what it is. I'm shedding no tears for the lack of a season this year, but I recognize it's a pretty hardcore sport. But don't go dissin the greatest sport ever to somehow reassert your view of hockey.


Hey lots of activities take skill but that doesnt mean i would call them sports. Really DAVID WELLS is representing some of the best your "SPORT" has to offer what does that mean? Babe Ruth is supposedly the best player ever or some shit? cmon now
 
I don't view baseball as much of a sport compared to hockey, football, and basketball, because there just aren't many variables of skill that are required to excell in the sport. If you're a pitcher, you have to pitch well. If you're a slugger, you have to hit well. If you're a fielder, you have to do that well. If you have a lot of skill, you can do more than one of these things.

But you're only doing one thing at a time.

Since hockey, football, and basketball are all "real time", (especially hockey and basketball), you have to do at least two things well: offense and defense- or else you're going to be sitting on the bench. While football has players suited to only do one of those areas, once the play starts, you not only may find yourself having to do more than just push another fat man away from you, since anything could happen. If there's a fumble and you're closest, you have to pick it up and suddenly you become a running back. Same thing if your QB throws an interception.

But more importantly, there's more strategy. Again, if you're the QB, and suddenly the guy who you were going to pass it to gets a surprise coverage, you have multiple decisions to make in the span of seconds. Baseball is just so one dimensional in that regard, in terms of what a single player has to do.

That's why fatasses like David Wells can excel in the sport.
 
Kabuki Waq said:
Hey lots of activities take skill but that doesnt mean i would call them sports. Really DAVID WELLS is representing some of the best your "SPORT" has to offer what does that mean? Babe Ruth is supposedly the best player ever or some shit? cmon now


why do you fuckheads always point to david wells and say "see if that fat fuck can do it so can i" how ignorant can you people be?! fact of the matter is, i dont care what kind of shape anyone is in, they cant do what david wells can which is throw a penny from a hundred feet and hit his target.
and i'm not going to go over again how much skill is needed in baseball cause that's a discussion for another day. it never ends with you people....... you need to hit, throw, run, catch all of those things. what?we need to change how the game is played in order to accomodate other people who dont see the game for what it really is? gimme me a break.

strategy? hit run? on a 2-0 count? do you send this slow runner now in order to avoid the double play? what about the hitter? strikeout prone? contact hiter? i could go on and on with this pissing contest all day and it wouldnt achieve anything. so i'll just say what i really wanted to say which was, this strike is the best thing to happen to hockey in a while only if a fair deal is struck by both sides. if not, well it might take something like five years
or more for fans to wnat to come back at least in america. canada might recover quicker.
 

Malakhov

Banned
Sure Baseballe takes skill to play, but it doesn't make you an athlete. It sure takes skill to play darts but it's still not a sport.

Baseball is not a sport, move along.
 
MacGyver is not amused!

 

Kingpen

Member
Being a Penguins fan, and knowing that the league will probably have to revert to the same standings as the last season for the Lottery draft, I have no problem with them scrapping the rest of the season. A 30 game season would be crap anyway, and the cup champion would always be questioned on whether they deserved to be the champ since they had such an easy season. The Pens will get another top 5 pick (maybe get lucky and land Crosby), and our stud from last year, Malkin, will be ready to make the team. Plus the fact that we have Fleury in net, and a lot of other promising young players that are producing. The Pittsburgh Penguins have the potential to be the next Tampa Bay Lightning in a few years.

I want a cap so I can see my team do it's best to keep all these young studs in the stable... and not see them walk to the NY Rangers for rediculous amounts of money.

I agree with the owners that there needs to be a cap. Hockey players shouldn't be making over 6 mill in this current league with the minimal support that is given from fans and TV marketing deals. Of course I am biased because my team has been living the 20-30 mill lifestyle for a while now since they don't have the money pool such as the high market clubs.
 
evil solrac v3.0 said:
why do you fuckheads always point to david wells and say "see if that fat fuck can do it so can i" how ignorant can you people be?! fact of the matter is, i dont care what kind of shape anyone is in, they cant do what david wells can which is throw a penny from a hundred feet and hit his target.
As someone else mentioned, so can a darts player.

you need to hit, throw, run, catch all of those things.
David Wells needs to hit, run, and catch?

strategy? hit run? on a 2-0 count? do you send this slow runner now in order to avoid the double play? what about the hitter? strikeout prone? contact hiter?
Yeah, that's all shit that the coaches decide. If you read what I had said, you'd notice I was referring to the players who play the sport.
 

Socreges

Banned
Mike Works said:
David Wells needs to hit, run, and catch?
He needs to catch the ball when the catcher throws it back to him!

And he hits/runs when he pitches in the World Series or Inter-league play. Though "hits" is an ideal - more like "swings". As with "runs" - more like "lightly jogs".
 
Socreges said:
He needs to catch the ball when the catcher throws it back to him!

And he hits/runs when he pitches in the World Series or Inter-league play. Though "hits" is an ideal - more like "swings". As with "runs" - more like "lightly jogs".
If by "swings" you mean "misses" and "lightly jogs" you mean "leans forward as gravity pulls him towards the direction of the clubhouse and uses his legs to interupt the kinetic action of falling down", then yes, I suppose he does prominently display what it takes to be an all star in the sportingest league in all of sports.
 
Mike Works said:
As someone else mentioned, so can a darts player.


David Wells needs to hit, run, and catch?


Yeah, that's all shit that the coaches decide. If you read what I had said, you'd notice I was referring to the players who play the sport.


what is your obsession with wells? do you think that's what all baseball players are like?
darts? are you for reall? a goddamn darts player cant do what a pitcher cant. jesus......

Baseball is not a sport, move along.

ignorance is bliss i suppose.
 
evil solrac v3.0 said:
what is your obsession with wells? do you think that's what all baseball players are like?
darts? are you for reall? a goddamn darts player cant do what a pitcher cant. jesus......
I think it's more of a testimony as to what one baseball player is like, not all. It's a simple testimony on what kind of athlete can be an all star in that sport.

And yes, I'm pretty sure that a dart player could "throw a penny from a hundred feet and hit his target", which is exactly what I quoted of you.
 
Mike Works said:
I think it's more of a testimony as to what one baseball player is like, not all. It's a simple testimony on what kind of athlete can be an all star in that sport.

And yes, I'm pretty sure that a dart player could "throw a penny from a hundred feet and hit his target", which is exactly what I quoted of you.


but when you keep pointing to him, i have to assume that YOU think that all baseballl players are fatties. far from it, and if you know about wells, you know that that extra weight has hurt him in his career. and please, do not compare a dart player with a baseball pitcher. dart players do not have guys swinging at the darts . dart players get to drink while playing ;) and dart players do not have their arms falling off after every game they pitch.



Is babe Ruth not some sort of baseball god?
he is, but is he being overweight means that every fatass can hit 714 career homers? and we are talking about someone who played in the 1920's. different times.


Alright, enough baseball trolling, I think solrac's gonna stroke out. :p

awww, you do care. ;)
 

Gregory

Banned
Somewhat off topic, but it seems to me americans/canadians only care about football/hockey/basketball/baseball.

Don`t you ever get tired of teamsports only? What about individual sports like alpine skiing, skijump, speed skating etc?
Does individual sports get any attention at all besides at the Olympics? And no, golf doesn`t count.

USA`s Bode Miller is dominating alpine skiing at the moment for example, any americans even heard of him?
 
Gregory said:
Somewhat off topic, but it seems to me americans/canadians only care about football/hockey/basketball/baseball.

Don`t you ever get tired of teamsports only? What about individual sports like alpine skiing, skijump, speed skating etc?
Does individual sports get any attention at all besides at the Olympics? And no, golf doesn`t count.

USA`s Bode Miller is dominating alpine skiing at the moment for example, any americans even heard of him?

do those sports have any on-field- off field drama? no? too bad...... individuals? *blinks*
 

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
Alright, back to the hockey...Bill Simmons finally opines!
Imagine if the NFL tried to pull this. Say we're reading stories next August like "NFL Owners to Union: No Deal." Wouldn't there be rioting, like after the Rodney King verdicts? I could see leading a massive protest outside Paul Tagliabue's headquarters -- 10 times more belligerent than Brandon Walsh leading the "Donna Martin graduates!" chant-until they had to use tear gas, Dobermans and Ed Hochuli to take me down. But with the NHL's lockout, the apathy has been startling. Wasn't this once a major sport? Why don't we care?

Even hockey diehards -- a dying breed right up there with Eddie Murphy fans and handlebar-mustache fans -- seem to agree this lockout is for the best. And that's a little weird, because we're not talking the WNBA here, where only a tiny segment of people will pay to watch the games. People like hockey. Sure, most of them live in Canada, where Bryan Adams is an icon, but there's still an audience. And we are all victims of a once-likable league that screwed itself up beyond repair, the same way you screw up a relationship by drunk-dialing too many times. The NHL made two unforgivable mistakes: expanding more recklessly than Krispy Kreme and paying their players way, way, way too much money. It was a lethal combination of greed and sheer stupidity.
There's more, and it's all on point. :(
 
. the only time i ever watched a lot of hockey and enjoyed it, and enjoyed a lot was in the olympics. if the NHL was like that the whole time it'd get a lot more fans.
 

Gregory

Banned
evil solrac v3.0 said:
. the only time i ever watched a lot of hockey and enjoyed it, and enjoyed a lot was in the olympics. if the NHL was like that the whole time it'd get a lot more fans.

Well, it could be if you just changed your rinks to European (olympic) size and got rid of redline offside. The rink size is the most important though.
 
The main reason why Olympic hockey is awesome is because:

1) It's the best players in the world playing for 6 teams, not 30

2) It's players getting a once in four years chance to win an olympic gold medal while representing your country

It's unfortunate that the same formula doesn't translate in basketball, but expecting the everyday NHL to be as good as the olympics hockey is asking for too much. Besides, playoff hockey is just as good, if not better, since it's prolonged.
 

fallout

Member
Mike Works said:
You've got to be fucking joking, or pretending to be Canadian for some absurd reason. Saying there'd be an outcry if there was no Olympic hockey but Canadians don't care if there's no NHL is one of the dumbest, most ignorant things I've heard on this whole issue, excluding anything that's come out of Bettman or Goodenow's mouth.
Wait a second, I'm saying "Canadians" as in the majority of the population. Not you or I. You can find die hard fans everywhere. Hell, there are die hard Manitoba Moose fans. That being said, if you don't follow the game too closely, but it's entertaining nonetheless. Plus, it's fun to get in on things when the going's good.

I mean, I watch NFL games, but I don't hold any particular affection for any times. I like some more than others, but if I'm watching it, I'm watching it because it's entertaining, not because I'm passionate about it. If there were some kind of work stoppage in the NFL ... I probably wouldn't care that much.

The reality is, you're dealing with a smaller population. I love hockey, but I don't expect everyone else to be into it as much as I am. I know lots of people that watch the game, enjoy the game, but just don't care that it's not around. They don't have any passion for it. Now, when it comes to Olympic hockey, it was just an example because it's something that the entire country stops for. It's not so much a matter of sport as it is a matter of national pride.

You see that in every sport though ... look at the Greeks winning Euro 2004. I knew plenty of people that had never watched a soccer match in their lives that were rooting for them, just because of nationality.

So, I guess it wasn't so much a comment on hockey and Canada as it was a comment on sports and fickle fans in general. Either that, or I was drunk when I made the post. Maybe this one too.
 

SickBoy

Member
Tragically, the owners lack the resolve and leadership to undo the damage. Basically, they need to bring on a hockey apocalypse and start over. Since that will never happen, hockey is doomed.

Indeed, Bill is onto something. I've been calling for the "hockey apocalypse" since it looke apparent over a year ago that there wouldn't be a 2004-05 season.

One thing that really troubles me is the fac that the league hasn't had the balls to just say it: the season is done. They should have made a public drop-dead date and stuck to it. The fact that there isn't suggests weak resolve and a smell of desperation.

I'm still not opposed to the idea of scabs. I haven't been to an NHL game in years (mostly because until late last year I hadn't lived in an NHL city since 2001), but I have made a choice in my mind to go to at least one game if they put in replacements (maybe more if they slash ticket prices).
 

calder

Member
I love Bill Simmons, but after I read his article I felt what I always feel those very rare times he mentions hockey - he really doesn't know anything about the game and nothing he says gets much credence from me as a result. I agreed with some of the "no duh" comments but he truly knows next to nothing about the game itself, the league or the fans so whenever he tries to make a point it's either pretty banal or just goofy.

Tragically, the owners lack the resolve and leadership to undo the damage. Basically, they need to bring on a hockey apocalypse and start over. Since that will never happen, hockey is doomed.
Come on, that doesn't even make a lick of sense, how can you agree with it? :lol
 

SickBoy

Member
Depends on how you take the idea of "hockey apocalypse."

I think we're in the midst of it -- tearing apart the current NHL system and hopefully implementing something new. If he's right about the owners, then in my eyes, the game is doomed -- for me at least.

If they cave, I think I'd probably be done with the game... except as a pure bandwagoner if another cup run ever emerged. Then again, maybe there's a proposal from the players that will work... but I'm just fed up with the whole thing at this point. Talk of the apocalypse just sounds good to me.

For some reason the fact that the season isn't happening (even though I said I supported it because of the ened for a new CBA) annoys me. I think in part because I'm stunned by the stubborn nature of the negotiations.
 

Mainline

Member
I still think they need to make a deal to save the season, like Calder said before, without making a deal soon there is little hope for them to make a deal before next season starts, and losing 1 whole season and maybe more will just damage the game even more. However, the longer this lockout goes, the chances are higher that some teams won't survive, which I think will be a good thing for the league in the long run. The talent pool right now is pretty stretched. Losing 4 teams would be great, that would make every remaining team stronger, making the games better. Being from Winnipeg, I am still bitter about losing our team to Phoenix, I still don't understand why markets like Florida, Carolina, Atlanta, Columbus, Phoenix, and Nashville even exist, moving/expanding to non-traditional hockey markets just to TRY and make a bit more money is just plain stupid, look at the condition the league is in now, you can't tell me moving teams out of Quebec, Winnipeg and Hartford have helped the league. I could be mistaken, but I believe that Phoenix is losing even more money than they did in Winnipeg, it's a shame we just opened a brand new arena and have no team.
 

fallout

Member
Yeah, I'm really worried (and slightly confident) that once the season is cancelled, both sides will just say "OH WELL" then go play some golf for 8 months. Then they'll return in September and start bitching at each other again.
 

SickBoy

Member
As far as I'm concerned, if they kill the season and the owners don't even threaten scabs, they're morons. Because I agree that there may not be that incentive to negotiate after the current season is out of mind. With that threat hanging over the players (and the league), there may be more effort.

Plus, I want a reason to ask for paper bags at the grocery store :D
 
I think there will be a deal by next summer, even if it means one by late August or so.

The players will eventually cave, and the NHL will probably offer some deal that lets the NHLPA save some face.

But there's definitely going to be some kind of "cost certainty", there's no way for the NHLPA to get around that.

I hate to say it (for genuine fans in those markets), but if teams like Phoenix or Anaheim were forced to fold, I think that would actually be good for the NHL. A somewhat flexible, but still solid salary cap system and fewer teams would do wonders for the league IMO.
 

djtiesto

is beloved, despite what anyone might say
Fei said:
The poll, sadly, is pretty expected. The lockout really sucks for the fans. I live in Buffalo, which loves the Sabres, and I am utterly surprised at how people really don't seem to mind the lack of hockey.

I'm actually pretty surprised about that... Nearly everybody I know from Buffalo is obsessed with hockey and football, as a non sports fan I kinda found it hard to fit in :p

Disco Stu - I hope you're joking about the Gorton's Fisherman... Ugliest jersey I've ever seen, the old one is so much better.

The last time people around here really cared about hockey was when the Rangers went all the way in '94 and fights used to break out in school between the Islanders fans and the Rangers fans.
 

Shinobi

Member
Boogie said:
America doesn't deserve hockey anyway :p

NOBODY deserves the current shit brand of NHL hockey that's been on display the last five years.






fallout said:
I heard this on the radio sometime back. They recently took a poll and apparently most Canadians don't even care if the NHL comes back this season. As far as a lot of us are concerned, it's a lost cause.

That's what makes this thread so funny. Most people realize that a 28 game sched or whatever the fuck these jokers would throw out there would be a complete waste of time anyway, so who gives a shit? That they insist on dragging this thing out just adds to the growing apathy amongst NHL fans.

It's more resignation that the league is done then anything else...basically just kill the thing and put people out of their misery. But believe me, if the puck were to get dropped in the next month or so, every ticket at Air Canada Centre would be scooped up faster then the U2 tour. How that would translate in other strong hockey centers remains to be seen (we already know how it'd translate in the sunbelt markets).







Malakhov said:
9+ hours meeting yesterday and they scheduled another meeting for today.
After like 4-5 hours today they get out, Goodenow says there was asbolutely no progress in the last few days, WHAT THE FUCK YOU MOTHERFUCKER?!

Man I'm pissed, I AM SO FUCKING pissed right now. My last once of hope just got shattered there.

They've had the same hardline stances for over five years...did you really think they were gonna get softened in nine hours? This is only a surprise to the hopelessly naive.







graham said:
Fuck the NHL. I want a Canadian league. Kill the CFL to make it happen if we have to, who the fuck cares about football.

Now this is bright...ratings and attendance up throughout the league, and a Grey Cup game that ALWAYS draws a bigger TV audience then the Stanley Cup, and you're asking who cares about football? You sound like a NHL owner. :lol












Kabuki Waq said:
Hey lots of activities take skill but that doesnt mean i would call them sports. Really DAVID WELLS is representing some of the best your "SPORT" has to offer what does that mean? Babe Ruth is supposedly the best player ever or some shit? cmon now

Shit like this is just silly. The mechanics of pitching are such that a normal guy who tries would see their arm fall off after ten throws. Such throwing action is not natural...it takes time, dedication and a ton of training to even become medicore, let alone a quality pitcher.

That doesn't even get into the field-based positions, which are clearly athletic. Catchers become as broken down as some football players after fifteen years with all the balls and runners they have to block. Hand-eye is vital for both fielding and at the plate, along with razor-quick reactions. Major quicks and the ability to always make contact are generally required to be one of the top two hitters in the lineup. And then look at some of the outfielders like Jim Edmunds, Torii Hunter or Vernon Wells, guys who sacrifice their bodies to make plays diving on the turf or going into the wall, and have canons for arms to boot.

Is it as physical as hockey? Well, no. But hockey isn't as phyiscal as football either, so does that mean hockey isn't a sport? It's all relative.









Gregory said:
Somewhat off topic, but it seems to me americans/canadians only care about football/hockey/basketball/baseball.

Don`t you ever get tired of teamsports only? What about individual sports like alpine skiing, skijump, speed skating etc?
Does individual sports get any attention at all besides at the Olympics? And no, golf doesn`t count.

USA`s Bode Miller is dominating alpine skiing at the moment for example, any americans even heard of him?

The only individual sport Americans care about these days is NASCAR, probably the most boring form of auto racing in existance (though I still respect the hell out of those drivers). Oh yeah, figure skating always gets huge ratings on TV...doesn't matter when it's on, the chicks and pervert males will tune in, in droves.









evil solrac v3.0 said:
. the only time i ever watched a lot of hockey and enjoyed it, and enjoyed a lot was in the olympics. if the NHL was like that the whole time it'd get a lot more fans.

Ding ding!! That's the point these dumb fuck owners and their sheepish followers seem to miss. People aren't staying away because their teams have "no chance to compete". They're staying away because the quality of NHL hockey is complete and utter SHIT. And until that's changed, no new system is going to improve things.

I'm one of the few people that probably leans towards the players in this mess, though that's only if I'm forced to choose. The reality is that both sides are full of shit...the owners knew this shit was coming down for five years, yet still spent their brains out every summer until 2003. Players claim to not want to play in a salary cap structure as a matter of principle and are looking out for the players of tomorrow, yet play in fucking beer leagues where they have salary caps, and take away some person's job in the process. So frankly, fuck both sides.

I will say though that 80% of the trouble between the two is simply based on a complete lack of trust. The players don't trust the owners at all, and based on previous history I can't say I blame them. Players know hockey owners are losing money, but don't believe it's as much as they say it is. They also don't believe they're counting all the revenue streams that are available to them. If you're in a union and you believe the company you're negotiating with is withholding information to improve their case, why the fuck would you just bend over and take whatever deal is thrown out? Also, owners don't seem to be willingly looking at revenue sharing, something you'd think would happen if they truly care about the overall health of the league. It's only coming up because the players are bringing it up.

Also, you can forget scab hockey...BC laws would prevent such a thing as far as I know, and Ontario law prevented a similiar strategy by the MLB back in '94. The best strategy for the NHL might be to declare bankruptcy, but considering the amount of money MLSE makes, that claim would probably be dubious and would become a litigious mess for months.

With all that said, the owners are going to win this fight. Bettman only needing eight votes to keep this shit going means he's pretty safe for the next year or so. If it was a majority vote, a good number of the big market teams would be saying fuck this shit and taking whatever deal the players threw at them. So the players just have to take whatever the best deal is. I don't think they're gonna get any better then what was offered last week.

I'll say this though...if big market clubs have to sacrifice for these bottom feeding franchises by missing a year or more of hockey, then they oughta have as much right to the number one draft pick as anyone else. All 30 teams should be thrown into a hat, and then picked out in descending order. Of course this would probably lead to Sidney Crosby being "drafted" by the New York Rangers, but what the hell. :lol
 
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