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[Ogbert]

What isn’t dated according to you?

These days?

Not much. VR, perhaps.

Nothing wrong with things being dated, if the mechanics are well done. Destiny 2 is as derivative as it gets, but the gunplay is refined to the point of perfection. Funnily enough, people aren't really raving about ER's gameplay; rather the world that has been built.

I think Horizon's movement and gameplay are functional, but leave a little to be desired. It's one of those games that doesn't add up to more than the sum of it's broadly, exceptional parts.

 

[Swift_Star]

These days?

Not much. VR, perhaps.

Nothing wrong with things being dated, if the mechanics are well done. Destiny 2 is as derivative as it gets, but the gunplay is refined to the point of perfection. Funnily enough, people aren't really raving about ER's gameplay; rather the world that has been built.

I think Horizon's movement and gameplay are functional, but leave a little to be desired. It's one of those games that doesn't add up to more than the sum of it's broadly, exceptional parts.

Yeah, you’re full of BS.

 

[Chukhopops]

Some people really have bad takes. ER is dated too since it’s the same combat from demon’s souls I guess?

Demons Souls doesn’t have plunging attacks, crafting, SP summons, mounted combat, you cannot jump, you cannot counter after a block, there are no weapon arts… there are way more differences between DS and ER than between HZD and Forbidden West (but to be fair there are more games and years too).

 

[Ogbert]

Yeah, you’re full of BS.

 

[The artful mincer]

These days?

Not much. VR, perhaps.

Nothing wrong with things being dated, if the mechanics are well done. Destiny 2 is as derivative as it gets, but the gunplay is refined to the point of perfection. Funnily enough, people aren't really raving about ER's gameplay; rather the world that has been built.

I think Horizon's movement and gameplay are functional, but leave a little to be desired. It's one of those games that doesn't add up to more than the sum of it's broadly, exceptional parts.

Doesn't dated imply something better has come along?

 

[Edgelord79]

I got the glider and picked up Elden Ring and haven't gone back yet. So far it seems to be pretty similar to the first game. Really fun when fighting big dinosaurs, less fun when fighting smaller dinosaurs but still a good time, barely enjoyable versus humans. The characters are so bland and not engaging. Even aloy. While the first games premise was pretty interesting, the story felt kind of dull. I can't say much about this game so far but nothing in the storyline so far has captured me. Still beautiful and pretty fun, but I do agree that it's a tier below spiderman/returnal/ratchet and two tiers below GOW.

And whoever decided on that climbing system needs to be fired...

It’s better than the first, but also the most impressive mediocre game I’ve played in recent memory. So many filler side quests and extra long dialogue everywhere. 15 hours in and I’ve bounced hard off this.

May try again at a later date.

 

[Edgelord79]

These days?

Not much. VR, perhaps.

Nothing wrong with things being dated, if the mechanics are well done. Destiny 2 is as derivative as it gets, but the gunplay is refined to the point of perfection. Funnily enough, people aren't really raving about ER's gameplay; rather the world that has been built.

I think Horizon's movement and gameplay are functional, but leave a little to be desired. It's one of those games that doesn't add up to more than the sum of it's broadly, exceptional parts.

I think this is a fair assessment to a rational person.

 

[Swift_Star]

Demons Souls doesn’t have plunging attacks, crafting, SP summons, mounted combat, you cannot jump, you cannot counter after a block, there are no weapon arts… there are way more differences between DS and ER than between HZD and Forbidden West (but to be fair there are more games and years too).

It’s essentially the same combat with a few tweaks. I don’t think it’s dated though because I’m not a fool looking for reactions.

 

[Swift_Star]

 

[Yoboman]

I played Zero Dawn recently and after all the complaints I'd heard people harp on about an empty world and repetition and combat issues I found none of that

Game was constantly surprising with a great and unique combat system built around traps and bows, manipulating and baiting the AI in a way that felt gave me a ton of agency on how to approach a fight.

I also found exploration was rewarded a lot with new areas, dungeons and upgrades to find. Some of them surprisingly large like the cauldrons

Unless the sequel is totally different I dont see what the issue is.

 

[Raonak]

It's very unique, and that throws some people off.

I struggle to think of many openworld game that has better combat than horizon.
The enemy variety, and complexity is fantastic, so are the variety of ways to take them down. different elements, traps, and chipping of specific parts of them for different effects.


No, it's not same lockon-circlestrafe souls combat, or the parry counter arkham/spiderman/GOT mold.
It's not a 3rd person shooter either, because you're largely fighting melee enemies but with ranged weapons.

 

[01011001]

It's very unique, and that throws some people off.

I struggle to think of many openworld game that has better combat than horizon.
The enemy variety, and complexity is fantastic, so are the variety of ways to take them down. different elements, traps, and chipping of specific parts of them for different effects.


No, it's not same lockon-circlestrafe souls combat, or the parry counter arkham/spiderman/GOT mold.
It's not a 3rd person shooter either, because you're largely fighting melee enemies but with ranged weapons.

this reads like satire xD

dude, the most effective way to kill any enemy in this game, and believe me I tried to make it more interesting, is to simply bullettime shoot weak spots with weapons that do tear damage over and over untill they fall off... that is it.
traps are super weak, stealth is slow and simply bad, and the combat is quite literally SHOOT > SHOOT > DODGE > SHOOT SHOOT > DODGE.
the only amount of "depth" this game has is to scan enemies and select an arrow type according to the symbols shown...

the open world is static and devoid of actual fun due to the horrendous controls with half-automated jumps and janky climbing that make it simply not fun to even traverse it.
and once you can fly it becomes super trivial.

 

[Raonak]

this reads like satire xD

dude, the most effective way to kill any enemy in this game, and believe me I tried to make it more interesting, is to simply bullettime shoot weak spots with weapons that do tear damage over and over untill they fall off... that is it.
traps are super weak, stealth is slow and simply bad, and the combat is quite literally SHOOT > SHOOT > DODGE > SHOOT SHOOT > DODGE.
the only amount of "depth" this game has is to scan enemies and select an arrow type according to the symbols shown...

the open world is static and devoid of actual fun due to the horrendous controls with half-automated jumps and janky climbing that make it simply not fun to even traverse it.
and once you can fly it becomes super trivial.

Wow, nice oversimplification, thats like boiling down souls combat into ATTACK > DODGE > ATTACK > DODGE > ATTACK > DODGE.
That's literally all that souls combat is. that's actually literally what ALL combat systems are.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

There's A LOT I want to say about this game, but I'll make my own thread for it when I'm done with the game, cuz there's lot of things I'll be talking about which no one even touched in convesations and I think it's very important to understand why I feel the way I feel knowing that.

 

[SlimySnake]

I played Zero Dawn recently and after all the complaints I'd heard people harp on about an empty world and repetition and combat issues I found none of that

Game was constantly surprising with a great and unique combat system built around traps and bows, manipulating and baiting the AI in a way that felt gave me a ton of agency on how to approach a fight.

I also found exploration was rewarded a lot with new areas, dungeons and upgrades to find. Some of them surprisingly large like the cauldrons

Unless the sequel is totally different I dont see what the issue is.

HZD was fantastic.

HFW has tons of issues. It feels like GoW Ascension. Not exactly better and introduces changes that makes the game feel outdated, janky and frustrating. I think HZD is the better game still.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

this reads like satire xD

dude, the most effective way to kill any enemy in this game, and believe me I tried to make it more interesting, is to simply bullettime shoot weak spots with weapons that do tear damage over and over untill they fall off... that is it.
traps are super weak, stealth is slow and simply bad, and the combat is quite literally SHOOT > SHOOT > DODGE > SHOOT SHOOT > DODGE.
the only amount of "depth" this game has is to scan enemies and select an arrow type according to the symbols shown...

the open world is static and devoid of actual fun due to the horrendous controls with half-automated jumps and janky climbing that make it simply not fun to even traverse it.
and once you can fly it becomes super trivial.

You must hate Elden Ring so much more then.

I honestly don't get the hate this game gets? I was still on page 2 and people are calling this Horizon 1.5?

What was the big evolution from Dark Souls 1 to 2? What about most assassin's creed?

Why are people mistaking a sequel for a reboot? This game does what all sequels do: grab everything about the previous game and make it better and bigger...or at least similar. What kind of evolution did you expect? Side missions are better, more enemy variety, more stuff to do, minigames, much better mocap, much better graphics but it's still Horizon.

I don't remember these criticisms over Uncharted 2 to 3 or even 4. Tomb Raider trilogy games etc..I could mention almost all games that are sequels out there. I'm sure the next God of War to be similar to the previous one as well...

 

[Topher]

this reads like satire xD

dude, the most effective way to kill any enemy in this game, and believe me I tried to make it more interesting, is to simply bullettime shoot weak spots with weapons that do tear damage over and over untill they fall off... that is it.
traps are super weak, stealth is slow and simply bad, and the combat is quite literally SHOOT > SHOOT > DODGE > SHOOT SHOOT > DODGE.
the only amount of "depth" this game has is to scan enemies and select an arrow type according to the symbols shown...

Wait....what? You say you are scanning enemies to determine which arrow type to use with your weapon that does tear damage? Bullshit. That isn't even how the game is played. Weapons do not do tear damage. Ammo does tear damage. You scan enemies to determine which elemental will make the target most vulnerable. These attacks are to be followed with attacks that do damage to be more effective. The same with traps.

You are not even describing the game accurately at all.

 

[Pakoe]

This game was a disappointment for me. I really loved ZD on PC , even during its buggy release.

- Aloy is a horrible main character in FW. In the ZD you see her grow as a character which was great, she was a wonderful character. In FW she's stuck up and lacks any emotion.
She never stops talking. I enter a new mission area and within a few seconds she starts dropping hints, and this is is with Explorer mode enabled.
She's selfish for wanting to do everything on her own, constantly telling people she doesn't need help while the whole world depends on her. Who does that? When in such a position, you take all the help you can get. It's the whole world against the common enemy.
After defeating a fucking T-Rex she just brushes it off like it's nothing. No emotion, no nothing. The same can be felt during conversations where she has such a boring monotone voice. Don't get me started on the pauses she has to take to come up with another boring ass response. Also, what is up with repeating the last sentence someone else had made? Who talks like that. NPC: "My sister is lost in the desert". Aloy "You said your sister was lost in the desert??".
During the first hours I was invested in the stories but after a while I had to skip them or else I would fall asleep.
- The side characters are shallow and I couldn't care less about any of them. It was great seeing some familiar faces but it lacked depth. I would have loved to see some actual deep personal quests to add some background layer to the extra characters.
- The world seems to be in a chaos yet everything is always fine and there's mostly always a happy ending. You beat one the best warriors of a certain clan? No problem, we can still be friends! Please join us while we give you full access to our community oh great Aloy! You destroy our village? Hey no problem! It lacks harshness, the actual chaos of a war between tribes.
- I'm on the fence about the combat. On one hand it's still great when it comes to the actual combat between you and the robots. Having to aim at their weak spots is good, especially when every robot differs. It keeps it interesting, which I liked. Sometimes the robots tend to have jerky movements so you're permanently stuck in matrix mode or else you'll miss your shots. Melee combat is the worst. They tease you with an enemy that has a shield, yet the only option you have it to dodge. They really missed the mark on having a deep melee combat system. No shield/parry tends to make most melee combat come down to dodging and attacking, which isn't enough for me. I felt no reason to unlock the extra combos because of this and got away with the basic combos. Later enemies tend to be able to keep you down with multiple attacks. I've had attacks when I got knocked down and the moment I got up I was hit again which can be annoying.
- Climbing can be annoying at times. Aloy gets stuck, doesn't move where you want her to or doesn't grab what she's supposed to. The idea of being able to climb on most things is great, yet I had to turn on the option to mark the spots where you can climb or else you're stuck pressing R3 the whole time. Maybe an issue with detection.
- The pullcaster was overdone because most areas relied on it.
- You have an inventory, where berries are placed. When you pick up more berries, they get magically added to your stash (which is fine). When you're out of berries, they get magically added to your inventory. So what is the use of the stash? Why limit the amount in your inventory?
- Traps which you have no ammo for are still in your list. So when you're in the heat of battle and want to switch to a healing potion, you stuck having to press left/right for too long.
- The graphics on quality mode are great, but 30 fps is not for me so I was on performance mode which unfortunately is blurry. With graphics this great, it makes other things obvious, like the mediocre lipsync. Which also doesn't help the boring conversations.

All in all, this was a solid 7,5 for me, which isn't bad but it could've been way better. The ending was even worse and stopped be from even wanting to finish the remaining side quests.

 

[Topher]

Interesting take. Couple of observations....

She's selfish for wanting to do everything on her own, constantly telling people she doesn't need help while the whole world depends on her. Who does that? When in such a position, you take all the help you can get. It's the whole world against the common enemy.

That's only early on though and the NPCs actually criticize her for her attitude. That changes dramatically later in the game.

- The world seems to be in a chaos yet everything is always fine and there's mostly always a happy ending. You beat one the best warriors of a certain clan? No problem, we can still be friends! Please join us while we give you full access to our community oh great Aloy! You destroy our village? Hey no problem! It lacks harshness, the actual chaos of a war between tribes.

I'm not certain what you are referring to here. Which warrior was defeated and which village destroyed again?

- You have an inventory, where berries are placed. When you pick up more berries, they get magically added to your stash (which is fine). When you're out of berries, they get magically added to your inventory. So what is the use of the stash? Why limit the amount in your inventory?

No, the berries stay in your stash. The berries in the menu are retrieved from your pouch. It wasn't well-thought out. I found it very confusing at first.

- Traps which you have no ammo for are still in your list. So when you're in the heat of battle and want to switch to a healing potion, you stuck having to press left/right for too long.

I didn't like that either. Too much crap to go through. Traps, however, can be crafted on the fly like ammo. Either way, I agree it is a convoluted menu.

 

[Pakoe]

That's only early on though and the NPCs actually criticize her for her attitude. That changes dramatically later in the game.

Spoiler just in case, one of the last missions:

Spoiler

Even during one of the last missions this happend. The ending of The Wings of the Ten, Chief Hekarro wants to thank Aloy by helping her and she just says no.

I'm not certain what you are referring to here. Which warrior was defeated and which village destroyed again?

Spoiler just in case, beginning and a later quest:

Spoiler

In the beginning you defeat one of Regalla's Champions. Later on you happen to meet their clan and they just welcome you.
Later on you destroy Bulwark by using a canon. Which seems quite harsh, but hey no biggie for Aloy.

No, the berries stay in your stash. The berries in the menu are retrieved from your pouch. It wasn't well-thought out. I found it very confusing at first.

That makes more sense. It is confusing.

I didn't like that either. Too much crap to go through. Traps, however, can be crafted on the fly like ammo. Either way, I agree it is a convoluted menu.

Yeah, I have no issues with the crafting system which is pretty good actually. The menu isn't however.

 

[The Cockatrice]

- Aloy is a horrible main character in FW. In the ZD you see her grow as a character which was great, she was a wonderful character. In FW she's stuck up and lacks any emotion.

No she is not. Just cause you dont like her personality doesnt mean its bad. Her personality is reflective of Sobeck, you know..the fucking woman she is cloned after and after so many years being obssessed with her work and everything else as well as being more secluded from everyone else while trying to save the fucking planet, she ofc gets more bitter. Her hero nature stays but she obviously became more cold as well. Maybe pay attention to the story?

The side characters are shallow and I couldn't care less about any of them. It was great seeing some familiar faces but it lacked depth. I would have loved to see some actual deep personal quests to add some background layer to the extra characters.

Again, just you. The side characters are hugely improved over the first game. Anyone saying otherwise is full of shit.

- The world seems to be in a chaos yet everything is always fine and there's mostly always a happy ending. You beat one the best warriors of a certain clan? No problem, we can still be friends! Please join us while we give you full access to our community oh great Aloy! You destroy our village? Hey no problem! It lacks harshness, the actual chaos of a war between tribes.

You fail to realize the fact that most western tribest see Aloy as some form of goddess and she technically is, considering how she can control machines and can easily dispatch them more than entire trained warriors. Why not complain about that? That seems a more valid issue with the game than whatever else you said. No one knows the world is in chaos besides Aloy and her friends which also are kinda 50/50 on it. Even in real life I can 100% guarantee you, half the planet would not know fi disaster was upon us, or would not care.

As for everything else, gameplay is subjective so whatever floats your boat. It's not great but not bad either. Climbing sucks dick tho so yeah.

 

[Pakoe]

No she is not. Just cause you dont like her personality doesnt mean its bad. Her personality is reflective of Sobeck, you know..the fucking woman she is cloned after and after so many years being obssessed with her work and everything else as well as being more secluded from everyone else while trying to save the fucking planet, she ofc gets more bitter. Her hero nature stays but she obviously became more cold as well. Maybe pay attention to the story?

Again, just you. The side characters are hugely improved over the first game. Anyone saying otherwise is full of shit.

You fail to realize the fact that most western tribest see Aloy as some form of goddess and she technically is, considering how she can control machines and can easily dispatch them more than entire trained warriors. Why not complain about that? That seems a more valid issue with the game than whatever else you said. No one knows the world is in chaos besides Aloy and her friends which also are kinda 50/50 on it. Even in real life I can 100% guarantee you, half the planet would not know fi disaster was upon us, or would not care.

As for everything else, gameplay is subjective so whatever floats your boat. It's not great but not bad either. Climbing sucks dick tho so yeah.

You seem quite mad over someones opinion about a game. I respect Topher for actually responding in a normal fashion hence my response.

This is unnecessary. It's obvious that this is my opinion and it's fine if you don't agree. Saying I'm full of shit isn't however.

 

[Topher]

Spoiler just in case, one of the last missions:

Haven't gotten there yet so can't comment.

Spoiler just in case, beginning and a later quest:

Spoiler

In the beginning you defeat one of Regalla's Champions. Later on you happen to meet their clan and they just welcome you.
Later on you destroy Bulwark by using a canon. Which seems quite harsh, but hey no biggie for Aloy.

I did think the Bulwark thing was odd. As far as Regalla's champion, they made the point that it was honorable one on one combat. That just seemed to be part of their culture to me. But I get your point.

 

[Vick]

- Aloy is a horrible main character in FW. In the ZD you see her grow as a character which was great, she was a wonderful character. In FW she's stuck up and lacks any emotion.

Amazing, complete opposite experience. Aloy was an avatar in Zero Dawn, here an actual character displaying all sorts of emotions.

She never stops talking. I enter a new mission area and within a few seconds she starts dropping hints, and this is is with Explorer mode enabled.

She's selfish for wanting to do everything on her own, constantly telling people she doesn't need help while the whole world depends on her. Who does that? When in such a position, you take all the help you can get. It's the whole world against the common enemy.

You're asking for NPCs following you around all the time, instead of having dedicated quests?

No thanks.

After defeating a fucking T-Rex she just brushes it off like it's nothing. No emotion, no nothing. The same can be felt during conversations where she has such a boring monotone voice. Don't get me started on the pauses she has to take to come up with another boring ass response.

Not exactly sure what you're talking about, but what kind of complain is that? How would you expect the character to react for taking down a regular enemy after all the crazy shit she did in Zero Dawn and Frozen Wilds?

Also, what is up with repeating the last sentence someone else had made? Who talks like that. NPC: "My sister is lost in the desert". Aloy "You said your sister was lost in the desert??".

This happens in particular spots, where they assume players might want to resume the conversation later so that Aloy first line would remind the player the object of discussion. Never thought a QOL feature like this would bother a single person on the planet.. but here we are.

During the first hours I was invested in the stories but after a while I had to skip them or else I would fall asleep.
- The side characters are shallow and I couldn't care less about any of them. It was great seeing some familiar faces but it lacked depth. I would have loved to see some actual deep personal quests to add some background layer to the extra characters.

There are, plenty. Not something you would notice by skipping dialogues to not fall asleep though.

Sometimes the robots tend to have jerky movements so you're permanently stuck in matrix mode or else you'll miss your shots.

Only point so far in the entire post i could agree with, flying enemies animations are often buggy.

- You have an inventory, where berries are placed. When you pick up more berries, they get magically added to your stash (which is fine). When you're out of berries, they get magically added to your inventory. So what is the use of the stash? Why limit the amount in your inventory?

This is not what happens, but it's never actually explained unless yoy go in the Tutorial section so i can understand the confusion.

You have immediate barries to heal during combat, but in case you're bad enough to finish them all in a single encounter there are other barries you can refill mid-combat, which requires a bit of time and the ones in stash, which aren't magically added to your inventory at all.

- The graphics on quality mode are great, but 30 fps is not for me so I was on performance mode which unfortunately is blurry. With graphics this great, it makes other things obvious, like the mediocre lipsync. Which also doesn't help the boring conversations.

Lip-sync is actually much better at 60fps.

Even during the last mission this happend. The ending of The Wings of the Ten, Chief Hekarro wants to thank Aloy by helping her and she just says no.

So after doing ALL she did in the third act just to save Hekarro and Tenakth people in general from Sylens plan, she would then allow him to possibly die and destroy every chance and hard work put into peace with clans and Carja. Makes perfect sense.

Maybe don't skip all dialogues next time.

 

[The Cockatrice]

You seem quite mad over someones opinion about a game. I respect Topher for actually responding in a normal fashion hence my response.

This is unnecessary. It's obvious that this is my opinion and it's fine if you don't agree. Saying I'm full of shit isn't however.

Mad because I said the word fucking and told you to pay attention to the game? Good excuse I guess. Well, carry on with your opinion.

 

[Pakoe]

MEDIA=reddit]horizon/comments/tmtckl[/MEDIA]

Didn't say the puzzles are ruined since they aren't hard to begin with. Constantly dropping hints is the annoying part.
I can understand dropping a few hints when it takes too long for the player to act, but it happens too fast and often.

You're asking for NPCs following you around all the time, instead of having dedicated quests?

No thanks.

No? She has a base for a reason and the tribes have their own villages. I was expecting more of a group effort.

Not exactly sure what you're talking about, but what kind of complain is that? How would you expect the character to react for taking down a regular enemy after all the crazy shit she did in Zero Dawn and Frozen Wilds?

There are new enemies, even those are defeated without a sweat or comment. I'm not expecting her to drop dead on the ground. In some cutscenes she gets dropped by a regular enemy, but a big ass robot evokes no response and/or emotion? Makes no sense.

There are, plenty. Not something you would notice by skipping dialogues to not fall asleep though.

Agree to disagree.

This is not what happens, but it's never actually explained unless yoy go in the Tutorial section so i can understand the confusion.

You have immediate barries to heal during combat, but in case you're bad enough to finish them all in a single encounter there are other barries you can refill mid-combat, which requires a bit of time and the ones in stash, which aren't magically added to your inventory at all.

Yeah, Topher had corrected me on this.

Lip-sync is actually much better at 60fps.

I played only on 60 fps and there were scenes where the lip-sync still was underwhelming.

So after doing ALL she did in the third act just to save Hekarro and Tenakth people in general from Sylens plan, she would then allow him to possibly die and destroy every chance and hard work put into peace with clans and Carja. Makes perfect sense.

Maybe don't skip all dialogues next time.

Of course not, he's the chief. He would send his men to do the work.

 

[GymWolf]

I'm fully ready for the "horizon fw killed my dog and caused my divorce" topic.

 

[Vick]

No? She has a base for a reason and the tribes have their own villages. I was expecting more of a group effort.

Exactly, and group effort take place all the time in various ways, often in the form of dedicated quests. The alternative would be having NPC following you around and i would never want that.

There are new enemies, even those are defeated without a sweat or comment. I'm not expecting her to drop dead on the ground. In some cutscenes she gets dropped by a regular enemy, but a big ass robot evokes no response and/or emotion? Makes no sense.

As i said, no idea what specific instance you were referring to, as i never noticed this.

Of course not, he's the chief. He would send his men to do the work.

Yes, same men she was trying to save from a slaughter in the first place.

 

[DenchDeckard]

its going to be interesting to see the data on how many people have completed the game and what it actually sold. I'm sure Sony and GG will be tracking everything. I'm sure that in some ways they thought they were making a more accessible game but for a lot of players it ended up making the game worse than the original.

 

[tassletine]

No she is not. Just cause you dont like her personality doesnt mean its bad. Her personality is reflective of Sobeck, you know..the fucking woman she is cloned after and after so many years being obssessed with her work and everything else as well as being more secluded from everyone else while trying to save the fucking planet, she ofc gets more bitter. Her hero nature stays but she obviously became more cold as well. Maybe pay attention to the story?



Again, just you. The side characters are hugely improved over the first game. Anyone saying otherwise is full of shit.



You fail to realize the fact that most western tribest see Aloy as some form of goddess and she technically is, considering how she can control machines and can easily dispatch them more than entire trained warriors. Why not complain about that? That seems a more valid issue with the game than whatever else you said. No one knows the world is in chaos besides Aloy and her friends which also are kinda 50/50 on it. Even in real life I can 100% guarantee you, half the planet would not know fi disaster was upon us, or would not care.

As for everything else, gameplay is subjective so whatever floats your boat. It's not great but not bad either. Climbing sucks dick tho so yeah.

The problem with your analysis of her character is that you are analyzing it like the characters are real people with interior lives. That argument would be valid if you were talking about Shakespeare but this is clearly a very superficial game.

If you want to go down the realism route then the character falls apart at the first hurdle, being ridiculously overdressed for a hunter (stealth anyone?) and having hair, beads etc that no trained fighter would take into combat as it would get so easily snagged.

Also, there is nothing in your comment that comes close to explaining why she won't shut up, eyerolls, pauses etc. things which in real life are extremely annoying to most people.

The games works only as a fantasy, and part of that fantasy is playing as a "powerful woman" which apparently means red hair and a haughty attitude. No problem with you liking that sort of character but I think it's easy to understand why people don't and why lots of reviews are calling it out.

 

[The Cockatrice]

The problem with your analysis of her character is that you are analyzing it like the characters are real people with interior lives. That argument would be valid if you were talking about Shakespeare but this is clearly a very superficial game.

If you want to go down the realism route then the character falls apart at the first hurdle, being ridiculously overdressed for a hunter (stealth anyone?) and having hair, beads etc that no trained fighter would take into combat as it would get so easily snagged.

Also, there is nothing in your comment that comes close to explaining why she won't shut up, eyerolls, pauses etc. things which in real life are extremely annoying to most people.

The games works only as a fantasy, and part of that fantasy is playing as a "powerful woman" which apparently means red hair and a haughty attitude. No problem with you liking that sort of character but I think it's easy to understand why people don't and why lots of reviews are calling it out.

That made no sense. She talks to herself and eyerolls a lot due to her cold personality which we explained. Characters in the game are reflective of real personalities. What the fuck are you talkign about lmao? Because it's a fantasy it should have fake personalities? What does that even mean? A cold person, yet a good one, tends to avoid most people and can easily get annoyed by the smallest of things but she does not act upon those feeling like a mad person would do. Most side characters reflect that when talking with Aloy and you can easily tell. Aloy has a reflective personality as well as an intelligent one just like Sobeck. These two type of personalities are very introverted by nature.

What does gameplay realism have to do with how a character acts? Ofc all characters in every single fantasy game or sci fi game or medieval or whatever have personalities based on real human beings. So what the fuck does realism have to do with gameplay? She fights giant robots, gets smashed by them and has no issues but you stop to complain that she cant possibly hide with those camouflaged clothes? Lmao what?

 

[Topher]

its going to be interesting to see the data on how many people have completed the game and what it actually sold. I'm sure Sony and GG will be tracking everything. I'm sure that in some ways they thought they were making a more accessible game but for a lot of players it ended up making the game worse than the original.

Most people do not complete most games, especially long ones, so those numbers are going to be skewed in any case. A lot of players are not going to be bothered all by making the game more "accessible". I certainly was not.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

its going to be interesting to see the data on how many people have completed the game and what it actually sold. I'm sure Sony and GG will be tracking everything. I'm sure that in some ways they thought they were making a more accessible game but for a lot of players it ended up making the game worse than the original.

First time i read someone saying Forbidden West is worse than the original. what alternate reality is this? There's nothing the original does better than this one.

 

[DForce]

its going to be interesting to see the data on how many people have completed the game and what it actually sold. I'm sure Sony and GG will be tracking everything. I'm sure that in some ways they thought they were making a more accessible game but for a lot of players it ended up making the game worse than the original.

People complain about the Ubisoft formula all the time, yet that game is always among the best-selling games of the year.

The vocal minority is different than the majority.

 

[64bitmodels]

TBH this game would have made more sense if it was a PS5 launch title. Releasing what's essentially a glorified techdemo over a year after the original system came out is pointless. same for R&C although to a lesser extent since that came out a few months after launch

 

[iHaunter]

Yes?

But Last of Us Part II and Ghost of Tsushima had incredible combat. Returnal is an all-time action game. Rift Apart was an absolute blast moment to moment. Miles Morales was - you get the point.

HFW is unique among Sony's recent output. It truly does put gameplay a tier or ten below the story (which isn't great, anyway).

Stop comparing games that're trying to do different things. It's like crying about how much better Bloodborne melee combat is vs Ranged. It's trying to be primarily Melee and Supplement Range. Very few games do both well.

 

[Sygma]

First time i read someone saying Forbidden West is worse than the original. what alternate reality is this? There's nothing the original does better than this one.

Story, pacing and locations are all better in zero dawn + frozen wilds

Whats better in forbidden west is the engine, new gameplay possibilities and how water is rendered / underwater sections

 

[Topher]

TBH this game would have made more sense if it was a PS5 launch title. Releasing what's essentially a glorified techdemo over a year after the original system came out is pointless. same for R&C although to a lesser extent since that came out a few months after launch

How is this remotely like a "tech demo"? It is a 60+ hour (on average) open world game. A tech demo is typically much shorter and linear like Killzone Shadow Fall. And it would make no sense to release the game at PS5 launch since it was not even close to being ready.

 

[Hugare]

Only reason you’re saying that is cause of elden ring.

Theres not another open world game aside from ghost of tsushima that has as in-depth and fun moment to moment combat.

Had WAAAAY more fun with Dying Light 2

Dont care one thing about DL 2 story or characters, but the gameplay is so goddamn fun. Just parkouring around is a blast.

New loot everywhere. Everything you do gets you some reward. Just running around improve your parkour XP.

Horizon feels sterile in comparison

 

[Vick]

TBH this game would have made more sense if it was a PS5 launch title. Releasing what's essentially a glorified techdemo over a year after the original system came out is pointless. same for R&C although to a lesser extent since that came out a few months after launch

Now Forbidden West, the immense game 5 years in the making, is a tech demo.

I swear to God, i've never in my entire life witnessed so much nonsense and fallacious critiques aimed at a videogame.
Absolutely mindblowing.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Story, pacing and locations are all better in zero dawn + frozen wilds

Whats better in forbidden west is the engine, new gameplay possibilities and how water is rendered / underwater sections

Story is debatable. Pacing? I mean...it's like any other open world game. If you keep doing all side quests as they open all open world games have "pacing" issues.
Now locations... Are you serious here?

Seriously am i playing the same game? Zero Dawn was empty. We had no towns no nothing. There's so much variety here. The old world cities are amazing here. The tribes cities as well.
Level design is just one level above...it's night and day.

Did you play the game?

 

[HellforLeather]

I really waffle back and forth on this game.

There are times where it just fucking clicks and I'm having a blast (mostly fighting big ass robo dinosaurs) and others where I just feel annoyed as fuck. The story is bleh and I really hate the bog standard "open world dialogue" that most of these types of game suffer from. I dont give a shit about the side characters at all. Climbing is obnoxious as fuck (doesnt seem designed well at all either since I can mostly just keep bunny hopping up a lot of the cliffsides in the game).

They've definitely made massive improvements in the environments though and some of the puzzles left me scratching my head for a bit, but they arent that satisfying to solve.

 

[Allforce]

I feel like every opinion on this game has to be prefaced with what difficulty you're playing on. Someone schooled me in another thread about how wildly different their experience is on Hard/Very Hard and after trying it myself I honestly can't remember a single game that varied SO wildly in how it's played with just one change in difficulty level.

I'm on Normal (which is what I just usually play games on because I always assume that's what the devs were going for) and it's just trivially easy, no machine can stop me and I'm taking down everything without issue. I've never died once. Now bump it up one level to Hard and you're made of glass and one-shotted by everything. You're scrambling with managing ammo and health and potions and traps and smoke bombs against even the most basic of machines like Burrowers and it feels like a completely different game. It's really crazy how trivial they make a ton of systems on "Normal" that I would normally see implemented on a "Easy" or "Story" difficulty level.

And that's odd because the first game on Normal had a nice curve to it where early machines were definitely challenging until you got yourself powered up. There was a "rite of passage" mission to defeat a Ravager I think with Rost that was thrilling and a serious leap in difficulty even on Normal. Taking a Thunderjaw down was a real accomplishment and a battle that felt really rewarding. On the flip side in FW I've literally never used a potion or food or traps or even 70% of the available weapons. I still have the original Hunter bow I started the game with and it dominates! And I'm pretty confident that curve I mention above is not coming because I'm far enough where I've done 3-4 cauldrons and 2 of the 3 big main story missions.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Had WAAAAY more fun with Dying Light 2

This is where your opinion becomes invalid. I would've believed you if you said the first Dying Light but the second is trash in regards to everything. Its quality, buggynes and jankyness vs FW is like comparing shit to gold. Then again, some do like shit so what do I know.

 

[Sygma]

Story is debatable. Pacing? I mean...it's like any other open world game. If you keep doing all side quests as they open all open world games have "pacing" issues.
Now locations... Are you serious here?

Seriously am i playing the same game? Zero Dawn was empty. We had no towns no nothing. There's so much variety here. The old world cities are amazing here. The tribes cities as well.
Level design is just one level above...it's night and day.

Did you play the game?

Platinumed it yeah, only game I bothered to last gen. What I mean by that is the world itself is much more memorable in Zero dawn than in forbidden west. Meridian and it's outskirts were better, also in terms of overall consistency I found it to be tighter. From the Nora area to the other end of the jungle. Frozen wilds area is peak horizon still I think, from the snowstorms in the native American park to the whole last third close to the volcano and the finale in the corrupted cauldron, it just was much more striking overall.

Forbidden west is very detailed but there's just something kinda, I don't know forgettable about it. The isle of spires is quite possibly one of my most favorites area in any open world but its literally under used.

 

[GymWolf]

I feel like every opinion on this game has to be prefaced with what difficulty you're playing on. Someone schooled me in another thread about how wildly different their experience is on Hard/Very Hard and after trying it myself I honestly can't remember a single game that varied SO wildly in how it's played with just one change in difficulty level.

I'm on Normal (which is what I just usually play games on because I always assume that's what the devs were going for) and it's just trivially easy, no machine can stop me and I'm taking down everything without issue. I've never died once. Now bump it up one level to Hard and you're made of glass and one-shotted by everything. You're scrambling with managing ammo and health and potions and traps and smoke bombs against even the most basic of machines like Burrowers and it feels like a completely different game. It's really crazy how trivial they make a ton of systems on "Normal" that I would normally see implemented on a "Easy" or "Story" difficulty level.

And that's odd because the first game on Normal had a nice curve to it where early machines were definitely challenging until you got yourself powered up. There was a "rite of passage" mission to defeat a Ravager I think with Rost that was thrilling and a serious leap in difficulty even on Normal. Taking a Thunderjaw down was a real accomplishment and a battle that felt really rewarding. On the flip side in FW I've literally never used a potion or food or traps or even 70% of the available weapons. I still have the original Hunter bow I started the game with and it dominates! And I'm pretty confident that curve I mention above is not coming because I'm far enough where I've done 3-4 cauldrons and 2 of the 3 big main story missions.

Any game with a decent combat system shine on max difficulty because you have to use all of your arsenal and you can't just button mash your way to victory (with some rare exceptions)

The narrative that normal is the intended difficulty and devs want you to play that way is an old bullshit narrative that unskilled players or people who have "no time to waste on a vg" tell to themself to feel better.

(Not talking about you, but more broadly)

I basically ignore everyone who talk about combat while playing on normal.

 

[SlimySnake]

I think reviewers have gotten way too complacent this gen. Last gen started out with critics rating games very harshly. KZSF topped out at 70 because it felt like a retread. Ryse sucked ass and was awarded a disastrous metacrtic average in the low 60s. DriveClub topped out at 70. Perhaps unfairly. The Order was destroyed by the critics, and rightfully so. Even Destiny was harshly judged and got a 76 IIRC. It wasnt until Bloodborne in 2015 that critics finally started handing out high 80s and 90+ scores.

Even good games like Infamous Second Son topped out at 80 which is where this game probably should reside. it's not a bad game. it's just more of the same, and not all of it is necessarily better. Just like Infamous Second Son. Ratchet, Halo Infinite, and Horizon getting 88s and 89s is bizarre to say the least. These games are good, but should be in low 80s at best. Probably lower seeing as how they bring absolutely nothing new to the next gen.

You've got Elden Rings posting 97 metacritic even though its basically Dark Souls set in the open world. It doesnt feel as handcrafted as Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 felt where every encounter felt meticulously designed. Now you just run into random encounters in the open world against enemies who are just there as fodder. Is this what critics want nowadays?

I see Forza Horizon's score and im like more of the same is worth 93 now? No wonder Elden Ring got a 97 because at least they took the series open world when it was linear before. Horizon Forbidden West is objectively worse in several key areas like combat, platforming, story, polish, and maybe even level design. It is objectively better in storytelling, visuals and production values, but those things are just salad dressing. The meat of the game is worse, and the critics got bamboozled by fancy cutscene graphics and dialogue options that literally go nowhere. They dont make the missions any different. They dont offer you more choices to role play as Aloy. The actual playing of the game is a worse experience which after a 5 years gap should not result in the same metacritic score. Standards must be higher in 2022.

I would love to do polls on whether or not Ratchet Rift Apart is the best Ratchet game. Same for whether or not Elden Rings is the best souls game. I know everyone loves the game here, but Bloodborne is simply a better crafted souls game. Same with halo infinite. So if these games arent even the better than previous entries that came out 7-10 years ago then why are they getting such high scores in 2022?

 

[Dibils2k]

i'll just say they cant do another game in this series like this

there was clear lack of ambition, far too similar. Underwater with no combat? just made the game worse/boring, and hated every underwater section

time to switch to another IP and then come back later maybe

 

[64bitmodels]

I think reviewers have gotten way too complacent this gen. Last gen started out with critics rating games very harshly. KZSF topped out at 70 because it felt like a retread. Ryse sucked ass and was awarded a disastrous metacrtic average in the low 60s. DriveClub topped out at 70. Perhaps unfairly. The Order was destroyed by the critics, and rightfully so. Even Destiny was harshly judged and got a 76 IIRC. It wasnt until Bloodborne in 2015 that critics finally started handing out high 80s and 90+ scores.

Even good games like Infamous Second Son topped out at 80 which is where this game probably should reside. it's not a bad game. it's just more of the same, and not all of it is necessarily better. Just like Infamous Second Son. Ratchet, Halo Infinite, and Horizon getting 88s and 89s is bizarre to say the least. These games are good, but should be in low 80s at best. Probably lower seeing as how they bring absolutely nothing new to the next gen.

You've got Elden Rings posting 97 metacritic even though its basically Dark Souls set in the open world. It doesnt feel as handcrafted as Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 felt where every encounter felt meticulously designed. Now you just run into random encounters in the open world against enemies who are just there as fodder. Is this what critics want nowadays?

I see Forza Horizon's score and im like more of the same is worth 93 now? No wonder Elden Ring got a 97 because at least they took the series open world when it was linear before. Horizon Forbidden West is objectively worse in several key areas like combat, platforming, story, polish, and maybe even level design. It is objectively better in storytelling, visuals and production values, but those things are just salad dressing. The meat of the game is worse, and the critics got bamboozled by fancy cutscene graphics and dialogue options that literally go nowhere. They dont make the missions any different. They dont offer you more choices to role play as Aloy. The actual playing of the game is a worse experience which after a 5 years gap should not result in the same metacritic score. Standards must be higher in 2022.

I would love to do polls on whether or not Ratchet Rift Apart is the best Ratchet game. Same for whether or not Elden Rings is the best souls game. I know everyone loves the game here, but Bloodborne is simply a better crafted souls game. Same with halo infinite. So if these games arent even the better than previous entries that came out 7-10 years ago then why are they getting such high scores in 2022?

this guy gets it. There's a reason that a good chunk of the greatest games of all time, are linear.
Massive giant fucking open worlds either completely fucking ruin a game or dumb the gameplay down below previous games. the only thing i'd disagree on is forza since the physics and open world gameplay work there tbh, but even then the tuner era NFS games did that concept better in most areas. Metroidvanias are the way to go and have been for the longest time. All of the pros of linearly designed levels, and all of the pros of openly designed worlds, with hardly any of the cons. It's the best way to handle a more open video game and if i'm being honest should completely kill off open world with very very few exceptions.

 

[tassletine]

That made no sense. She talks to herself and eyerolls a lot due to her cold personality which we explained. Characters in the game are reflective of real personalities. What the fuck are you talkign about lmao? Because it's a fantasy it should have fake personalities? What does that even mean? A cold person, yet a good one, tends to avoid most people and can easily get annoyed by the smallest of things but she does not act upon those feeling like a mad person would do. Most side characters reflect that when talking with Aloy and you can easily tell. Aloy has a reflective personality as well as an intelligent one just like Sobeck. These two type of personalities are very introverted by nature.

What does gameplay realism have to do with how a character acts? Ofc all characters in every single fantasy game or sci fi game or medieval or whatever have personalities based on real human beings. So what the fuck does realism have to do with gameplay? She fights giant robots, gets smashed by them and has no issues but you stop to complain that she cant possibly hide with those camouflaged clothes? Lmao what?

Calm down. You seem to have missed the point. Which is about consistency.

You can't have a game or any art form that you can just excuse away because you enjoy it, doing mental backflips about each portion.

You like Aloy because she's reflects "Real world personalities" -- I don't because of exactly the same reason.
The people I've met who are like that are annoying, arrogant, and usually easily blindsided. That doesn't sound like a good basis for a hero to me despite what they do as it's fundamentally unlikable.

But your argument appears to be that she's deliberately written that way and not just checking woke tickboxes -- which I disagree with as her personality feels so unnatural and forced.

So, your argument, unless I'm missing something, is that she's a well rounded character that reflects real personalities.
That maybe true or maybe what the writers are getting at, but it's a damn poor choice in a game where NOTHING ELSE IS REALISTIC. It drags it down.

Why If her personality is so on the nose, well rounded and thought about, are none of the other characters?
Why hasn't word spread that she's so insufferable? Why don't the other characters talk about her that way. Answer me that?

There just isn't any proof at all that the programmers were going for a realistic game, or had any intention that it should be taken as such. She could easily have been a stoic hero and it wouldn't have changed a thing.
There simply isn't any reason why she talks so much and is so annoying, except the "strong woman" stuff. The whole game, exceptional as some parts are, feels like it was designed by marketing and very superficial.