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Horizon Forbidden West is not enjoyable as the first due to changes (No story spoilers)

SlimySnake

Member
Anyway, I didn't play the first game so I can't give perspective from that point,

Then just learn to be smarter with your weapon selections in combat?
lol It's always rich when people who havent even played the series come and try to tell me how to play the game. I literally platinumed the first game then went back and beat it 4 times on the hardest difficulty on NG+ with the added aggressive enemies just a couple of months ago. I have now put in a 100 hours in HFW already. I can kill just about everything in 1 hit. I have all but one legendary weapon fully upgraded which anyone who has gotten them knows how time consuming it is. I think its safe to say I know the smartest way to take out the enemies and know wtf I am talking about.

And changing tactics? What tactics? When the shit hits the fan, everyone immediately gangs up on you. They start jumping right you. They start throwing shit at you. They stun lock you with attacks. (This was finally fucking toned down last week) They never ever stop moving. At this point, the only tactic is to dodge and shoot arrows. There is no other defensive mechanic. A side step wouldve been better at this point.

This was not an issue with the first game because the enemies were not this aggressive. Even in the NG+ when they specifically added aggressive enemies for the highest difficulty setting, this wasn't an issue. I never wanted parry or blocking. It just never came up because the game was more methodical and the enemies didnt have parkinsons moving fucking constantly. The Armor negating damage resulting in 1 hit markers is insulting because the way the game justified arrows taking down big machines in the first game was becuase she was using metal parts taken from the enemy armor. Thats why they were armor piercing. So what changed in the 6 months since the end of the first game?

They just added too much shit to the game, and in their rebalancing they ending up making enemies more aggressive and nerfed your weapons. It's not that the game is bad, it's just not as fun or enjoyable which is the title of the game. The first game was simply more fun to play.
 
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The game has a serviceable, solid story; other than that, it’s better than the first in every possible way. Fantastic game to play and look at.
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
FYI you can toggle off animations. Literally every single aspect of HFW is better than it's predecessor.
Busch Beer GIF by Busch
 

pratyush

Member
I would say the story didnt get me involved like the first one as this felt more of a setup for a third than an independent classic that first one was.

But apart from that, i absolutely had a blast playing this game. Is it perfect? No absolutely not but it has its moment and the gameplay loop is engaging enough to keep my goofy brain occupied.

And the gameplay is far improved in the second one compared to first. Dont believe me? Go play the first one now and you will see how much better it is in every aspect. Only thing i wished it had was a bit more powerful weapons and slightly less jumpy machines.
 
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lol It's always rich when people who havent even played the series come and try to tell me how to play the game. I literally platinumed the first game then went back and beat it 4 times on the hardest difficulty on NG+ with the added aggressive enemies just a couple of months ago. I have now put in a 100 hours in HFW already. I can kill just about everything in 1 hit. I have all but one legendary weapon fully upgraded which anyone who has gotten them knows how time consuming it is. I think its safe to say I know the smartest way to take out the enemies and know wtf I am talking about.

Haven't played the series? The series only has one other entry 🤣. I did think about getting HZD before HFW but figured I was better off with the more recent installment. Though the way you and some others speak of it make it sound like the differences between this and HZD is like going from SFIV to SFV.

Other than that I already acknowledged you're further in the game than I am, but play length doesn't mean everything. I can spend 100 hours in an RPG spamming bad or unoptimized battle tactics, or cheesing it, or trying different things with each encounter. I still get to 100 hours, just a question of how.

And changing tactics? What tactics? When the shit hits the fan, everyone immediately gangs up on you. They start jumping right you. They start throwing shit at you. They stun lock you with attacks. (This was finally fucking toned down last week) They never ever stop moving. At this point, the only tactic is to dodge and shoot arrows. There is no other defensive mechanic. A side step wouldve been better at this point.

If you're taking out a group, and they all spot you, then you probably got too greedy and took one too many shots before going back into cover. At least that's been the case with me when taking on groups. Other times I just look for advantageous positions and snipe away at power cells, attack pieces etc. and try drawing enemies out one at a time, that way they're more manageable.

It's worked for the most part; there are times where it doesn't and I draw all enemies on me and I'm screwed or forced to reload a save, but at least half the time when that does happen, it's my fault for not taking in the surroundings as a whole and strategizing advantageous positions to approach. Enemies don't stop moving, that's true, but they don't move AS fast when you have the weapon wheel out, and then you have Concentration aiming on top of it that slows them down even more. Most enemies moving becomes a non-issue with those two factored in.

I agree that more defensive options would've been appreciated on the melee side tho; a dodge, parry, counter or even some type of block would be helpful. You can technically dodge roll right in time to avoid incoming attacks but the timing window seems a bit tight and I don't know if the hitboxes are optimized for that wherein the team expected people to rely on it as part of their strategy. I'm not even sure if any of the unlockable or upgradable skills among the six class types have a blocking ability or parry function, so I'm just kind of playing without taking that into mind.

This was not an issue with the first game because the enemies were not this aggressive. Even in the NG+ when they specifically added aggressive enemies for the highest difficulty setting, this wasn't an issue. I never wanted parry or blocking. It just never came up because the game was more methodical and the enemies didnt have parkinsons moving fucking constantly. The Armor negating damage resulting in 1 hit markers is insulting because the way the game justified arrows taking down big machines in the first game was becuase she was using metal parts taken from the enemy armor. Thats why they were armor piercing. So what changed in the 6 months since the end of the first game?

IIRC don't the arrows in HFW use Ridgewood and Metal Shards for crafting them? And you get the Metal Shards from inflicting Tear damage on robot enemies so...in terms of lore it's still following exactly what you claim the first game did. I just guess in the new one they're now done with a combination of Ridgewood and metal shards, instead of just metal parts.

Also, at least from what I gather there's some type of chemical or "rot" permeating through the environment and it's affected plant life. Maybe the Ridgewood just has more metal compound within it compared to what it'd of had six months prior?

They just added too much shit to the game, and in their rebalancing they ending up making enemies more aggressive and nerfed your weapons. It's not that the game is bad, it's just not as fun or enjoyable which is the title of the game. The first game was simply more fun to play.

So basically you're asking the game should be easier? I mean, they do have easier difficulty options if that's your thing, and you can change it on the fly. That probably isn't the optimal way to adjust the challenge going by what you seem to want, but it is an option and it's one other people playing who might think parts are too difficult can take as well. IIRC you can even adjust the difficulty depending on specific portions of the game like combat, puzzles etc.

And what I'm about to say next, isn't actually even aimed at you but it's just about gaming community in general, particularly with reviewers/critics. Where it's like the only type of "difficulty" they are comfortable with is Soulsborne-style challenge; anything else feels too alien to them and probably comes off feeling harder relatively speaking to them because it's not a challenge they're "used" to like with Souls games. And I've seen that happen a few times with other hard games this year that aren't FromSoft games.

So on the one hand you have people who are clearly okay with difficulty in games, as long as it's a style of challenge they are "comfortable" with, something they are apparently acclimated to and that could be due to personal experience, or just meta sentiment in general. But on the other hand, you have games that offer their own type of challenge, probably in ways that is not comfortable for a lot of people, and they are chastised for it and get looked at lower for "ostracizing" gamers. It's actually something the Souls games used to have to put up with but now it seems like it's moved on to other games in general.
 

rofif

Gold Member
lol It's always rich when people who havent even played the series come and try to tell me how to play the game. I literally platinumed the first game then went back and beat it 4 times on the hardest difficulty on NG+ with the added aggressive enemies just a couple of months ago. I have now put in a 100 hours in HFW already. I can kill just about everything in 1 hit. I have all but one legendary weapon fully upgraded which anyone who has gotten them knows how time consuming it is. I think its safe to say I know the smartest way to take out the enemies and know wtf I am talking about.

And changing tactics? What tactics? When the shit hits the fan, everyone immediately gangs up on you. They start jumping right you. They start throwing shit at you. They stun lock you with attacks. (This was finally fucking toned down last week) They never ever stop moving. At this point, the only tactic is to dodge and shoot arrows. There is no other defensive mechanic. A side step wouldve been better at this point.

This was not an issue with the first game because the enemies were not this aggressive. Even in the NG+ when they specifically added aggressive enemies for the highest difficulty setting, this wasn't an issue. I never wanted parry or blocking. It just never came up because the game was more methodical and the enemies didnt have parkinsons moving fucking constantly. The Armor negating damage resulting in 1 hit markers is insulting because the way the game justified arrows taking down big machines in the first game was becuase she was using metal parts taken from the enemy armor. Thats why they were armor piercing. So what changed in the 6 months since the end of the first game?

They just added too much shit to the game, and in their rebalancing they ending up making enemies more aggressive and nerfed your weapons. It's not that the game is bad, it's just not as fun or enjoyable which is the title of the game. The first game was simply more fun to play.
Seriously this.
You constantly roll, scan, aim, bullettime, shoot bow.
Melee is useless and skill trees are very weird.
The worst thing is how much there is in this game and how aggressive the robots are. I had to put it on easy late game because they would often stun lock and I just got annoying.
Fighting is super active busywork and repetitive annoyance…
 

Captiosus

Gold Member
Melee is useless and skill trees are very weird.

Melee is vastly improved over the first game to the point where, if you wanted, you could play an almost entirely melee-combo build, which you couldn't really do in HZD as the spear was largely an afterthought or just a stealth takedown weapon.

Skill trees are weird? Did you not read them and just throw points in randomly? Skill trees are perfectly fine and play into various build designs.

I had to put it on easy late game because they would often stun lock

This sounds like a you problem. The machines' movesets don't change, you simply face increasingly more challenging ones as you progress. But you also get access to better gear, more elements, more weapons, and more defenses as you encounter these harder machines. The game hands you all the information you need to know about each machine's weak points, elemental weakness, and attacks. Your complaint sounds like you didn't care to pay attention to any of that and just wanted everything to be an easy mode encounter that you didn't have to think about.

The only place where difficulty and stun lock is a legitimate gripe is the arena where it's clearly overtuned for the timers (and locked gear loadouts) they put in place.

Fighting is super active busywork and repetitive annoyance…
The combat in HZD and HFW are essentially the same design as every other major, open world, RPG. Sounds like you just don't care for the genre but instead of simply admitting that you're spending time shitting on a game to justify your dislike.
 
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Only reason anyone is downplaying how good this game is because of the metacritic score.

Game is better than the first game in every single aspect.

It definitely seems like a toxic trend is forming with recent PlayStation games. Not even just 1P; Sifu also got flack for supposedly being too difficult for some, and that probably affected the Metacritic score.

I'm all for legitimate complaints but sometimes when you hear people's complaints you can start picking away if there's ignorant takes in there. Some of the Xbox content creators I watch have been very guilty of this, just hyperbolizing issues with the game and calling it a failure etc. just because, when you get down to it, it's a PlayStation exclusive.

It's a really bad habit; I don't think a game being an exclusive to a console should factor into attacking it for BS reasons or to be disingenuous. From what I've gotten into it so far the game is nowhere near as troubled as some takes I've seen desperately try to make it seem like.
 

01011001

Gold Member
Imma be real here, all you criticize here is also true for the first game. I know someone who cheezed himself through the highest difficulty of the first game by simply jumping in slow mo and firing arrows at the same weakspots over and over, most enemies in the first game were too stupid to go around rocks, so he just stood there, jumping and killing them all lol

what is worse tho is the climbing, which wasn't a thing to the degree it is in the second one, and that is truly just fucking god awful, holy shit...
 

SlimySnake

Member
It definitely seems like a toxic trend is forming with recent PlayStation games. Not even just 1P; Sifu also got flack for supposedly being too difficult for some, and that probably affected the Metacritic score.

I'm all for legitimate complaints but sometimes when you hear people's complaints you can start picking away if there's ignorant takes in there. Some of the Xbox content creators I watch have been very guilty of this, just hyperbolizing issues with the game and calling it a failure etc. just because, when you get down to it, it's a PlayStation exclusive.

It's a really bad habit; I don't think a game being an exclusive to a console should factor into attacking it for BS reasons or to be disingenuous. From what I've gotten into it so far the game is nowhere near as troubled as some takes I've seen desperately try to make it seem like.
Absolute nonsense. The only trend thats forming is that PS exclusives arent the default GOTY winners they were from 2016-2020. This bizarre conspiracy theory where people who gave Horizon their GOTY over Zelda in 2017 would all of a sudden turn on the sequel just to trash Playstation is hilariously poorly thought out. The OP wrote a detailed post with all of his issues with no anti-PS bias whatsoever. So did several other people. Anything you read into is YOUR bias.

The issues being brought up today in new threads were all brought up in the OT. From day one. I was called names for simply pointing out issues with the graphics, and yet almost two months later, GG is still trying to actively fix them. Same thing with the gameplay. People disagreed with me then and then ended up agreeing with me by the end of the game. Others didn't. I dont expect everyone to agree with me, but I also dont go out there and dismiss well thought out opinions as ignorant or illegitimate.

Reddit, era, even youtube comments are filled with the same complaints. I never get any views on my videos I post for my friends, but I got several hundred views on a clip of Horizon FW and 99% of the comments said the same thing.

Here are some of them. Notice how they all talk about the same issues OP mentioned.

I had to put the game on story just because the combat is so fucking annoying. It's impossible to tell where weak spots are mid combat because there's a million fucking things to scan on machines, I can't tell what elements to use because color coding seems to mean nothing, not to mention by the time you pull up your scanner, you've already been knocked over. Also, there doesn't seem to be a point in combos if your hits don't stagger anything and you get knocked over before you can pull off any basic combos. Really disappointed, although tbh I don't remember the first game being much better. The only thing keeping me going is the story and atmosphere.

That spot shows how bad the battle is. I'm there atm and think of quitting that shit. I liked the battle of HZD so much that I could just play one hour for farming and was satisfied. In HFW almost every battle feels off and too often frustrating. Wth did they do with that game?😅

I feel you. In HZD I loved fighting and seldomly avoided machines but in HFW I hate it. The weapons are way too much, special arrows way to expensive and the bows in the last game where so much better. HZD was the first game that made combat with a bow really fun and the precision of it was so satisfying. How do you fuck up something so good you yourself established?

The main culprit for me is machines gangbanging me. 1 on 1 fights are really good when you get into the flow of dodging and running around trying to find out openings to land an arrow. However this system completely crumbles when another machine joins the fight. I could be fighting a Ravager and the addition of a burrower in that same fight would completely fuck it up. Mostly because now you have two incredibly aggresive machines throwing their shit at you at different paces and you have to cater to hitting the weakpoints of bith machines with different arrows and different tactics. It just falls apart. Im actively running away from 1 vs 3 or 4 fights now because its more frustrating than fun.
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These are just some of the 40 odd comments complaining about the same thing on a random youtube video showing a frustrating combat encounter.

I am so fed up with this nonsense accusing me of being a sony fanboy just because I picked Horizon GOTY over Zelda BOTW or because I said Days Gone wasnt as bad as the critics made it out to be. That Death Standing deserved GOTY because it was a great fucking game and not because it was a Sony exclusive. And now, im being trashed because I dared to say that Ratchet isnt GOTY caliber and that Horizon's combat has issues? I literally fucking said that this game would be my GOTY if it launched last year, but I said one bad thing about the combat and everyone just assumes there is an agenda.
 
I loved the first one so much! But this one I just can't like. They made horrible changes!

Health: The way health works is awful. You only get two pools of health and it runs out so fast because the enemies and machines take more than half your health in ONE hit! Then you are in the middle of the combat and you have to tell the enemies: WAIT I need to stay still to fill the other pool of health! That's so ridiculous! Why the hell can't I move when I need to fill my health?!! It's so stupid! Why do I only have two pools of 16 berries when I have 500+ in my inventory?!!

The climbing is horrible, and not even comparing it to another game. The game is not even consistent on what you can and can't climb and the functionality is extremely buggy.

Combat: The combat is horrible comparing it to the first one. It's not enjoyable for many reasons, but my main complain is that either is bad or it's cheese-able.

Melee: This is a joke! The first one didn't have a good melee at all, but you could see they didn't design the game at all for it, so it was a moot point. This time, they give you three stupid combos that don't do shit. The combat is useless, but somehow if you get the resonator blast it's cheese-able.

WHY THE HELL I CAN'T USE A SHIELD OR PARRY?! (I haven't finished the game, so I don't know if you get one eventually) but it NEEDS either shield or parry or both!

Enemies/Machines:
- They have a stupid long reach. You could be like 5 miles away from them and still get you.
- The armor it's incredibly stupid when trying to infiltrate because you can't scope them anymore. If you hit them with an arrow to beak them they get alerted. Specially if you use an exploding barrel.
- Machines now have combat designed as Pokemon. Where you just have to match their element and that's it. It's cheese-able because you just span their weakness and win easier. One thing is to have parts that react to certain elements, the other thing entirely is to ruin combat by making them Pokemon.
- Whatever they have to throw at you, they never miss. If you are running, they throw shit advanced so that it hits you. It's incredibly stupid how precise you have to be to avoid shit.

Weapons: Weapons are mostly useless in this game. It's hard to have fun with them because they don't do shit.
- Again, armor ruins everything. The tear arrows now take much longer. It's like the entire fight it's used to remove armor.
- Rope caster is useless now.
- Gauntless are cool but good luck catching the disc THREE times while moving like crazy because of how you need to spend 100% rolling.
- Tripcasters are useless. They don't even fill the element state and they just alert enemies, so you just get yourself in a fight when trying to be stealthy
- Spears are so OP. This is my main weapon when fighting large enemies. Again, cheese-able
- Weapon skills are good, but they shouldn't be limited since they are not that good!
- Weapon surges are horrible. They are useful, but they last like 5 seconds, so become useless.

Items/traps:
-Items are useless.
-Traps are OP in most cases, making fights cheese-able.


The first one was fun. It was a grounded game with basic mechanics that made the game enjoyable. They tried to implement so much shit in this game, that forgot the fun factor. I remember loving to fight Stormbirds and Thunderjaws because I used to rope cast them. Now I just hit them with arrows until they die. It's not fun anymore.

There are many new machines that I would like to use the rope caster but it's useless. New weapons are not fun because every machine is so fast and so aggressive that you just have to roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, and then go high ground and cheese.

Maybe many of you will say: GET GOOD! But that's the thing, I don't think this game is designed like a soul's game where you need to learn the enemies patterns very intricately to be able to win. It used to be a game to have fun, it was like a AAA super-hero movie that doesn't get involved in deep shit to be fun.

If there is a third one, they need to rethink the design of the game. Go back to basics.
I semi agree - I enjoyed the first more so far. It’s just not doing it for me for some reason - the climbing is just…. Why? Why did they put this in and build around it?
 
Absolute nonsense. The only trend thats forming is that PS exclusives arent the default GOTY winners they were from 2016-2020. This bizarre conspiracy theory where people who gave Horizon their GOTY over Zelda in 2017 would all of a sudden turn on the sequel just to trash Playstation is hilariously poorly thought out. The OP wrote a detailed post with all of his issues with no anti-PS bias whatsoever. So did several other people. Anything you read into is YOUR bias.

The issues being brought up today in new threads were all brought up in the OT. From day one. I was called names for simply pointing out issues with the graphics, and yet almost two months later, GG is still trying to actively fix them. Same thing with the gameplay. People disagreed with me then and then ended up agreeing with me by the end of the game. Others didn't. I dont expect everyone to agree with me, but I also dont go out there and dismiss well thought out opinions as ignorant or illegitimate.

Reddit, era, even youtube comments are filled with the same complaints. I never get any views on my videos I post for my friends, but I got several hundred views on a clip of Horizon FW and 99% of the comments said the same thing.

Here are some of them. Notice how they all talk about the same issues OP mentioned.








These are just some of the 40 odd comments complaining about the same thing on a random youtube video showing a frustrating combat encounter.

I am so fed up with this nonsense accusing me of being a sony fanboy just because I picked Horizon GOTY over Zelda BOTW or because I said Days Gone wasnt as bad as the critics made it out to be. That Death Standing deserved GOTY because it was a great fucking game and not because it was a Sony exclusive. And now, im being trashed because I dared to say that Ratchet isnt GOTY caliber and that Horizon's combat has issues? I literally fucking said that this game would be my GOTY if it launched last year, but I said one bad thing about the combat and everyone just assumes there is an agenda.
People here largely don’t get the concept that there a many gamers out there who don’t worship at the altar of a specific console manufacturer. They think there’s always some ulterior motive to undermine their console of choice. It’s preposterous.
 
Well, shit then, cause the story in the first one was not its strong point. Now I'm even less inclined to play the sequel.
I think I felt something similar.

To me, Aloy is about as good as whoever her supporting cast is and for me that was at its strongest when she was engaged with Rost and the bully guy from her childhood, but they both bit the bullet way too early. Aloy moved on from Rost pretty quickly and I don't remember her ever calling him Dad, even though the dude raised her since birth, gave her her name, trained her to be a hunter, and overall was a decent parent carrying a strong faith. I did visit his grave and listened to her lines there, but I dunno it's been a long time since I listened, I can't recall feeling the love. Felt like she respected him and that's it. Girl seemed obsessed with "who's my mommy" more than anything, and when she discovered Elizabeth, oh dear. Beginning of Forbidden West, more Elizabeth touting. This is just one of several reasons I just couldn't connect with Aloy as a character much. Buuuuuut, I'm still plowing through Forbidden West right now (or was. Kinda put it to the side because I felt like replaying Kena on the hardest difficulty and got hooked. That game has been really clicking with me after a second playthrough and better understanding the mechanics and finding secrets).

I'm hoping to finish Forbidden West within the next week, as I'm on vacation.
 
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rofif

Gold Member
Melee is vastly improved over the first game to the point where, if you wanted, you could play an almost entirely melee-combo build, which you couldn't really do in HZD as the spear was largely an afterthought or just a stealth takedown weapon.

Skill trees are weird? Did you not read them and just throw points in randomly? Skill trees are perfectly fine and play into various build designs.



This sounds like a you problem. The machines' movesets don't change, you simply face increasingly more challenging ones as you progress. But you also get access to better gear, more elements, more weapons, and more defenses as you encounter these harder machines. The game hands you all the information you need to know about each machine's weak points, elemental weakness, and attacks. Your complaint sounds like you didn't care to pay attention to any of that and just wanted everything to be an easy mode encounter that you didn't have to think about.

The only place where difficulty and stun lock is a legitimate gripe is the arena where it's clearly overtuned for the timers (and locked gear loadouts) they put in place.


The combat in HZD and HFW are essentially the same design as every other major, open world, RPG. Sounds like you just don't care for the genre but instead of simply admitting that you're spending time shitting on a game to justify your dislike.
Omg what a shit take. A you problem? I play video games my whole life. There is no me problem.
The melee combat is crap and skills are crap. Your defence of everything jank in this by saying it is my inability to play is pathetic
 
Absolute nonsense. The only trend thats forming is that PS exclusives arent the default GOTY winners they were from 2016-2020. This bizarre conspiracy theory where people who gave Horizon their GOTY over Zelda in 2017 would all of a sudden turn on the sequel just to trash Playstation is hilariously poorly thought out. The OP wrote a detailed post with all of his issues with no anti-PS bias whatsoever. So did several other people. Anything you read into is YOUR bias.

No, now THIS is a BS take considering we have actual evidence to prove that some reviews are...well, rather sus. Stevivor is a prime example; there's a reason they got blacklisted. All of their scores for EVERY SINGLE OTHER SOULS GAME besides the PlayStation-exclusive ones were right in line with the Metacritic average. Yet for both Demon's Souls Remake AND Bloodborne, Stevivor's scores were markedly below the Metacritic average? How, considering Remake was basically the original but even more polished & better-looking, and Bloodborne is considered by the community as one of the best entries in the franchise?

Also let's not play dumb, there were several HFW reviews calling out some of the launch-day technical bugs, and rightly so. But virtually NONE of the Elden Ring reviews called out its rather poor technical performance across the gamut of consoles (and PC) it released on? While still giving it perfect 10s? I saw streamers playing the PC version suffering multiple crashes in a single session, losing progress along the way...but somehow that still deserved a 10?

Don't try making this about me reading into things with a bias; it's not a bias if you can see a clear pattern and narrative form about with evidence to support it.

The issues being brought up today in new threads were all brought up in the OT. From day one. I was called names for simply pointing out issues with the graphics, and yet almost two months later, GG is still trying to actively fix them. Same thing with the gameplay. People disagreed with me then and then ended up agreeing with me by the end of the game. Others didn't. I dont expect everyone to agree with me, but I also dont go out there and dismiss well thought out opinions as ignorant or illegitimate.

Like I said, there were technical issues at launch, and those were rightfully addressed. But I still see pockets of people online who pretend the game is still in the same state it was Day 1 in terms of lack of patches and fixes, and that notion is nothing but BS formed from willing ignorance and not looking at the changes brought about with each patch. And again, while games like HFW have been getting timely patches to fix the technical issues, there have been several other high-profile games being patched at a glacial pace, with arguably much worst performance-impacting issues at hand.

But I never saw games journalists and media using that as times to take a dunk on those games in a mocking fashion. Outside of that, you're making this like I personally called your opinion ignorant; I don't remember saying that. What I said (or figured I said) was that from my POV, from my experience in the game so far, I don't agree with your criticisms because they sound more like a playstyle issue than something inherently wrong with the game. Said the same about OP's opinion, too.

Considering there was another thread with someone else complaining about the game but come to find out, they somehow managed to waste 6-8 hours in the tutorial section of all things and derived all their complaints there, then yeah it's fair to be a bit critical of some opinions that pop up in light of that. But I'll still judge them on their own merits; I even said that yours seemed informed from being further in the game than me, and I'd have to "wait and see" if the game experience for me by that point ends up feeling similar.

But based on my feelings of the subject right now, and considering the playstyle I tend to utilize with combat in the game, I don't envision that happening. Could be wrong, but I think by now I'd feel certain enough one way or the other.

Reddit, era, even youtube comments are filled with the same complaints. I never get any views on my videos I post for my friends, but I got several hundred views on a clip of Horizon FW and 99% of the comments said the same thing.

Okay but you also need to be realistic here and realize that not every comment is going to come from people in good faith. I.e at least some portion are going to be people masquerading as sincere but really just want to put out a negative take, not be challenged on it, not be open to possibly seeing things from another POV that could engender them to a more positive viewpoint on the topic.

You KNOW there have been bad faith actors WRT discussion of this game on all of those places you mention, even here, so it's not possible to hold up examples of what basically could amount to confirmation bias, as if they are a fair representation of the larger player base. Also with the way algorithms work on sites like Youtube, your content can easily simply attract people who were already inclined to agree with what that content has to say, and reinforce their opinions on it, so you're already drawing in people who'd either agree with you if your take was negative, or argue in the comments if it was a positive take (call it "clickbait" title or something like that).

Here are some of them. Notice how they all talk about the same issues OP mentioned.

Okay so there are already faults in some of those comments. Not gonna spend too much time on them but I'll just pluck one thing from each:

1: It's not hard to scan for weakpoints mid-combat unless, again, you're rushing or charging in blindly, going gung-ho and not being strategic beforehand etc. Weakpoints are almost always the first icon for an enemy once you do a scan; it'll be something like a powercell, or charger ram horns, etc. Lootable assets and valuables are always further to the right. You can tag weak points of multiple enemies to keep track of them. You can generally lob off weak points with a couple shots to disable their means of attack.​
If you're in cover when doing this you have more than enough time to scan and take apart attack points before combat even initiates!​
2: Maybe they just realize they don't like challenging/hard games or combat?​
3: Sounds like they're complaining about bow & arrow weapons being weaker, and resource crafting costs being too high? Right now I'm in a spot where I'm low on Acid arrows and have to go farm for more resources, but I also know I could've been saving on using so many Acid arrows if I used the Frostling a bit more to make enemies brittle. That probably would make the Acid arrows do much more damage per arrow, saving me resources.​
Ultimately, I myself realized I need to be more open to mixing up my weapon options to stack damage as best as possible. Since I'm feeling more comfortable with combat, I'll try doing that going forward.​
4: Can't recall what the Burrower's weak point is off the top of my head but they could've tried disabling one or the other's weak spots/attack pieces/power cells to make them less of a threat before going in. Also if he was fighting the Ravager on its own and a Burrower joined in, he should've been able to see the Burrower in the nearby area and known of it before getting in the fight, also knowing that by fighting the Ravager the Burrower would notice and join in.​
So while I don't wanna say it like this, sounds like he kind of made that fight harder for himself than he needed to 🤷‍♂️

These are just some of the 40 odd comments complaining about the same thing on a random youtube video showing a frustrating combat encounter.

I am so fed up with this nonsense accusing me of being a sony fanboy just because I picked Horizon GOTY over Zelda BOTW or because I said Days Gone wasnt as bad as the critics made it out to be. That Death Standing deserved GOTY because it was a great fucking game and not because it was a Sony exclusive. And now, im being trashed because I dared to say that Ratchet isnt GOTY caliber and that Horizon's combat has issues? I literally fucking said that this game would be my GOTY if it launched last year, but I said one bad thing about the combat and everyone just assumes there is an agenda.

Well now you feel my pain, because I've been called a fanboy of both consoles too. But, that doesn't really matter right now. I'm not trying to "trash" you or anything because you have a difference in how HFW handles its combat. I've even acknowledged that you, being further in the game, MIGHT have some perspective outside of my scope currently and there is the possibility I could share similar sentiment depending on what encounters later in the game present to me (though, again, I'm not really expecting this to happen because the flow of combat seems pretty much set in stone and I'd be surprised if any game mechanics did a 180 negating all the learned experience up to that point).

But I'm not gonna not question takes on its combat, either, when some of the things I see, to me, feel like it just comes down to playstyle differences or maybe doing certain things in a suboptimal way in a certain part. That's totally fine; I'm no expert at the combat and cant' do half the cool-looking evades and close-up bow shots I've seen more skilled players doing (at least, not yet). But I'm willing to acknowledge that, admit it's down to me, and I can tune my approach to be more optimal.

I DO think there is some shadiness in other takes of the game but, I've made sure to limit that in reference to certain gaming channels (mainly Xbox-related ones, but not exclusively those), and games journalists/reviewers. And of course, the obvious console warriors who say the most ridiculous things showing they haven't even touched the game. You don't fall into that camp at all; the OP doesn't, either. But that said, I do disagree with some of the opinions expressed and gave my reasons why. We'll see if some of those opinions on my end change throughout the course of me playing the rest of the game.
 

Sygma

Member
I loved the first one so much! But this one I just can't like. They made horrible changes!

Health: The way health works is awful. You only get two pools of health and it runs out so fast because the enemies and machines take more than half your health in ONE hit! Then you are in the middle of the combat and you have to tell the enemies: WAIT I need to stay still to fill the other pool of health! That's so ridiculous! Why the hell can't I move when I need to fill my health?!! It's so stupid! Why do I only have two pools of 16 berries when I have 500+ in my inventory?!!

The climbing is horrible, and not even comparing it to another game. The game is not even consistent on what you can and can't climb and the functionality is extremely buggy.

Combat: The combat is horrible comparing it to the first one. It's not enjoyable for many reasons, but my main complain is that either is bad or it's cheese-able.

Melee: This is a joke! The first one didn't have a good melee at all, but you could see they didn't design the game at all for it, so it was a moot point. This time, they give you three stupid combos that don't do shit. The combat is useless, but somehow if you get the resonator blast it's cheese-able.

WHY THE HELL I CAN'T USE A SHIELD OR PARRY?! (I haven't finished the game, so I don't know if you get one eventually) but it NEEDS either shield or parry or both!

Enemies/Machines:
- They have a stupid long reach. You could be like 5 miles away from them and still get you.
- The armor it's incredibly stupid when trying to infiltrate because you can't scope them anymore. If you hit them with an arrow to beak them they get alerted. Specially if you use an exploding barrel.
- Machines now have combat designed as Pokemon. Where you just have to match their element and that's it. It's cheese-able because you just span their weakness and win easier. One thing is to have parts that react to certain elements, the other thing entirely is to ruin combat by making them Pokemon.
- Whatever they have to throw at you, they never miss. If you are running, they throw shit advanced so that it hits you. It's incredibly stupid how precise you have to be to avoid shit.

Weapons: Weapons are mostly useless in this game. It's hard to have fun with them because they don't do shit.
- Again, armor ruins everything. The tear arrows now take much longer. It's like the entire fight it's used to remove armor.
- Rope caster is useless now.
- Gauntless are cool but good luck catching the disc THREE times while moving like crazy because of how you need to spend 100% rolling.
- Tripcasters are useless. They don't even fill the element state and they just alert enemies, so you just get yourself in a fight when trying to be stealthy
- Spears are so OP. This is my main weapon when fighting large enemies. Again, cheese-able
- Weapon skills are good, but they shouldn't be limited since they are not that good!
- Weapon surges are horrible. They are useful, but they last like 5 seconds, so become useless.

Items/traps:
-Items are useless.
-Traps are OP in most cases, making fights cheese-able.


The first one was fun. It was a grounded game with basic mechanics that made the game enjoyable. They tried to implement so much shit in this game, that forgot the fun factor. I remember loving to fight Stormbirds and Thunderjaws because I used to rope cast them. Now I just hit them with arrows until they die. It's not fun anymore.

There are many new machines that I would like to use the rope caster but it's useless. New weapons are not fun because every machine is so fast and so aggressive that you just have to roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, and then go high ground and cheese.

Maybe many of you will say: GET GOOD! But that's the thing, I don't think this game is designed like a soul's game where you need to learn the enemies patterns very intricately to be able to win. It used to be a game to have fun, it was like a AAA super-hero movie that doesn't get involved in deep shit to be fun.

If there is a third one, they need to rethink the design of the game. Go back to basics.

So you're complaining that the tools you got are actually doing the job ?

Spears aren't that op, you can literally one shot everything with the forgefall and outside of that the combination of sun shot + traps is probably the most efficient at any difficulty. Sun shot is legit the game changer with one purple drawing speed coils and 2 purple impact. Shits on everything front left right and center
 
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Topher

Gold Member
Absolute nonsense. The only trend thats forming is that PS exclusives arent the default GOTY winners they were from 2016-2020. This bizarre conspiracy theory where people who gave Horizon their GOTY over Zelda in 2017 would all of a sudden turn on the sequel just to trash Playstation is hilariously poorly thought out. The OP wrote a detailed post with all of his issues with no anti-PS bias whatsoever. So did several other people. Anything you read into is YOUR bias.

The issues being brought up today in new threads were all brought up in the OT. From day one. I was called names for simply pointing out issues with the graphics, and yet almost two months later, GG is still trying to actively fix them. Same thing with the gameplay. People disagreed with me then and then ended up agreeing with me by the end of the game. Others didn't. I dont expect everyone to agree with me, but I also dont go out there and dismiss well thought out opinions as ignorant or illegitimate.

Reddit, era, even youtube comments are filled with the same complaints. I never get any views on my videos I post for my friends, but I got several hundred views on a clip of Horizon FW and 99% of the comments said the same thing.

Here are some of them. Notice how they all talk about the same issues OP mentioned.








These are just some of the 40 odd comments complaining about the same thing on a random youtube video showing a frustrating combat encounter.

I am so fed up with this nonsense accusing me of being a sony fanboy just because I picked Horizon GOTY over Zelda BOTW or because I said Days Gone wasnt as bad as the critics made it out to be. That Death Standing deserved GOTY because it was a great fucking game and not because it was a Sony exclusive. And now, im being trashed because I dared to say that Ratchet isnt GOTY caliber and that Horizon's combat has issues? I literally fucking said that this game would be my GOTY if it launched last year, but I said one bad thing about the combat and everyone just assumes there is an agenda.

I can't image playing this game on story mode as that first comment said. I'm sorry, but the game is not that hard. If someone is getting ganged up on by machines then they probably should have thought out their approach a bit better. I'm no great gamer by any stretch of the imagination but I was able to Platinum the game on normal difficulty. There is very much a need for tactics in this game and rushing in trying to pummel machines with arrows might work some of the time, but others are going to need some more thought put into the situation. To me this sounds like the same sort of thing for people who complained about the combat in TLOU 2 where they were trying to play the game like Gears of War. Doesn't make any sense at all.

HFW has its flaws, but combat isn't one of them, imo.
 
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