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Horizon Zero Dawn for PC confirms poor ports will run poorly on PC

VFXVeteran

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Nov 5, 2019
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Ah, yes, my comment in that section was in regard to the PS5 update/release of Zero Dawn NOT Forbidden west. I.e. by removing the frame-time limit, solving animation and physics timing issues on this PC version means a 60 or 120fps version could be released on PS5 to drum on interest and sales ahead of Forbidden West next year. This will be a brand new game and engine with many significant enhancements over this version as we have already seen in the trailer and will likely not have a 30fps only mode also.

I don't see any big difference between HZD and HFW. In fact, they share a lot of assets (why shouldn't they). It is also not verified if HFW is going to be a brand new Decima engine. The one they have now works fine. The only significant enhancements we will see will be basically the enhancements they made for the PC version over the PS4 version. And perhaps 1 RT feature. In all, I think the decima engine is more portable than the ND engine. It's pretty much already ready for multiplatform capabilities.
 
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TheTechnician

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So finaly i have time again to write something here ...
First i wana say off course - thank you - to NXgamer for actualy following my link. Welcome to this Thread of mine :D

I've worked with doing some CUDA programming. Yes, there is latency moving data from CPU->GPU. But I would try my best not to do a read-back. I only want the communication to go one way. I would never poll the card to see if there is a message for transferring data back to the CPU. Those read-backs would be few and far between.

AND

It doesn't matter. The amount of time it takes to get data across to the GPU I will take the loss in time if I gain back a significant portion of frametime on the GPU side. That's where the consoles suffer. Their data flow may be fast back and forth since they have a shared memory, but their compute units are slow.

As i understood in Cernys Road to PS5 Talk exactly that is one Part of improvement in their I\O Block. With that coherency Engine and cachce scrubbers alot of the Problems you talking about should go away. Or at least not being a big factor anymore.





I always thought consoles had unified ram, because it would be cheaper to manufacture, not that it's a better solution. I'm sure PC's would have ditched system memory long also if this were the case.

No - if PS4s Exclusives showed one Thing than that the Way how PS4 (and its API ) is engineered is what actualy lets the PS4 "punch above its weightclass" And the Videos i postet showing HZD not playable on PC with similar (even slightly stronger) Hardware than PS4, shows that the assessment that all solutions materialized in PS4 are generally weaker than PC cannot be true. I think VFXVeteran is overstating this a bit.
But off coursejust by using Jaguar Cores they put themselfs against the wall in terms of Bottleneck. But also that came not by suprise to them later. Stuff like that gets projectet and simulated. They knew what they were doing back then.
The last life line in that argumant would be off course - use of electric Power. If we look how much a PS4 consumes and than a PC with similar as possible Specs as PS4 and both running HZD in original settings , then we see how bif the efficiency Bonus actually is in Console Hardware. That HZD even runs better on Console is the exclamation mark in that Picture.

Did a PC gamer run over your dog or something? What's the deal?

Why ask me this? I did not start a flamewar here. I game on PC aswell as on Consoles. If certain People jump on me for pointing out what should be generaly known and accepted its not my fault. Saying that Hardware in a console has an edge over PC with similar Specs is a no brainer and is not by any means meant to be a stab against the PC. PC will always win in the End by just evolving during one Generation.
If i would sit here with an RTX2080ti playing HZD in way better Graphics than PS4 could, i would not be sour only because someone pointing out (with Videoproof)that an RX 460 with an FX8300 cannot display HZD in same Settings as PS4 AND the same Performance. One could even start to admire those little consoles and what they are able to do for their money.

Thanks for the link on my YT to this thread, otherwise I would not have seen it.

No Thank YOU for actually visiting us here :)

Hm , since a big Part of Console Efficiency (beside hardware secret sauce) are the Diffrences in APIs used in PC Space and for example GNM on PS4 - would you maybe consider to make a video about that Topic?
Many People in here and elsewhere are oblivious to that i think. It would be a intresting Topic to discuss and a good oportunity to shed some light on that matter. For what i know even so called low level APIs in PC like DX12 and even Vulcan are not holding a handle to PS4s GNM.

But there is also the GNMX API wich wrapps around GNM and funktions much like DX11 on PC with alot ready to use Funktionality for given Problems in Software development. But since using a low level API needs actually the Dev to come up with his own Solutions ( but ones he can pricisely model for the Hardware at hand) wich makes development slower and more costly.

And i think this is the biggest Reason for all those Third Party Games running actually worse on PS4 than on a equivalent hardware PC . Those infamous DF Comparisions come to mind where they showd a GTX750Ti with a mere 1,3 Tflop actually beating PS4 in Games like GTA5 or Wichter 3.
I would assume that Devs used less or maybe not at all the PS4s low level API. But using GNMX for programming the PS4 is basicly approaching PS4s GPU as a desktop GPU. But because PS4 GPU is actually underclocked in comparision to a Desktop GPU it must lose in such a Contest..

And thats no stab towards any Developer. My Guess is all Devs would happily use GNM and show what they can do with it but greedy Publishers wont grant them the Budget to realize it.
And then there is off course Xbox One...

For what i know Xbox Ones Development Enviroment was not even outfitted with any sort of low level API in the beginning to mid Gen.. They were programming the console with a DX11 variant (lol)
Thats another reason why almost all Xbox One Exclusives failed to look as good as PS4s - they were not able to use the hardware right. Not to speak about the fact that it actualy was the weaker hardware to begin with.
So, with Xbox One being a part in any Mulitplattform Development this Gen - i doubt that PS4 was threated much differently during development - I think Devs settled with a GNMX \ GNM Mix - just as much GNM usage as they could afford. Be it in Time or Money - or both.
But that of course leaves PS4 with al lot of unused headroom in power.

Since we are on a new Page i think it makes sense to re post the link with that Reflection Interview by DF about their development of THE CREW at the beginning of the Gen and how they started to switch development from GNMX to GNM.
Also for context to what i wrote above..

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-how-the-crew-was-ported-to-playstation-4
 
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