Horizon Zero Dawn |OT2| Red Head Redemption

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Who's to say a new lead couldn't be female? Who's to say Aloy couldn't still be a big part of the game? Again, I know she physically has more to do, but she has pretty solid closure personally. I'm not saying she's 100% explored, but I think we just played through the most interesting part of her personal journey.
You never answered my question. Why drop the best female protagonist we have gotten in years? Yeah we can another female lead but why drop this one when she has so much to do and is so incredibly well received? I also don't think her emotional arc is anywhere near complete as she never actually dealt with anything. She didn't have time to.
 
Aloy is just amazing. She deserves her own series.

Nate gets his series, Lara hers, why shouldn't Aloy? Guerilla have a gem in their hands with Aloy. They should develop her more and send her to new adventures.
 
That's a funny example considering they are essentially dropping Drake now that his personal arc is over and he's found closure. The difference is that it took them 4 games to do that while Horizon pretty much did it in 1.
No they did not .
She still has stuff to do .
Plus we have not even seen the effect she has on the world and how she deals with it.
 
You never answered my question. Why drop the best female protagonist we have gotten in years? Yeah we can another female lead but why drop this one when she has so much to do and is so incredibly well received? I also don't think her emotional arc is anywhere near complete as she never actually dealt with anything. She didn't have time to.
To explore other narrative possibilities in this new world we know barely anything about. I'm thinking more from the perspective of "I want to see cool new stories in this world" rather than "Let's continue this awesome franchise because it's a cool new franchise". If it was up to me, for sake of the story, that after credits scene wouldn't have happened. I think this game could totally stand as a singular entry.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
To explore other narrative possibilities in this new world we know barely anything about. I'm thinking more from the perspective of "I want to see cool new stories in this world" rather than "Let's continue this awesome franchise because it's a cool new franchise". If it was up to me, for sake of the story, that after credits scene wouldn't have happened. I think this game could totally stand as a singular entry.
I'm glad you're not in charge of the story as there is no reason Aloy can't and won't be doing everything you asked for. This was the origin story on multiple levels, not that things are established they can really branch out and have hinted at like a dozen different things they can tackle for a sequel.
 
I'm glad you're not in charge of the story as there is no reason Aloy can't and won't be doing everything you asked for. This was the origin story on multiple levels, not that things are established they can really branch out and have hinted at like a dozen different things they can tackle for a sequel.
Lol, I get it. Again. I will state that I really like Aloy. I would play a sequel starring Aloy and likely enjoy it. I think she's a great new character. I just wish we didn't need to turn every story in to a franchise starring a franchise face. I understand that's unrealistic. If this was one and done, that wouldn't lessen her impact as a character though. Would we all have forgotten about Joel and Ellie if we never got another TLoU? Would that have made them less important? That's why I like the idea of shaking it up with someone new (while keeping Aloy involved).

EDIT: I'm also not trying to convince you guys I'm "right". That's just how I feel about it.
 
I think it's best for my health to stay away from that npd thread; might give me a massive headache from all the spins.

On topic of whether Aloy should star in the sequel; why not make dual protagonists?
There are lot of interesting settings that can be done for the next game i.e Forbidden West, cannibal land to the south, Ban-Ur, etc

But in the end, I'm gonna leave it to GG and John Gonzales to decide what's best for Horizon 2
 
Bring Aloy back retroactively lessens the ending of this game,
she finds closure and is finally at peace, standing right in front of her mother

I understand why people want Aloy back but my reasons for wanting a new main character are not a criticism of Aloy but high praise for what Guerilla did with her story.

It doesn't matter as we're absolutely going to be playing as Aloy in the sequel because it's the obvious and easier sell.

Playing as
Sylens
would remove the need to have another origin story but we're going to have exposition explaining what happened in the first game even if we play as Aloy.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Bring Aloy back retroactively lessens the ending of this game,
she finds closure and is finally at peace, standing right in front of her mother

I understand why people want Aloy back but my reasons for wanting a new main character are not a criticism of Aloy but high praise for what Guerilla did with her story.
She doesn't find closure on several different aspects of the story which is why I want to GG to stick with her. Not too mention that the story kind of requires her for certain aspects
Sylens doesn't work with her just because he has a thing for sassy red heads
 
Bring Aloy back retroactively lessens the ending of this game,
she finds closure and is finally at peace, standing right in front of her mother

I understand why people want Aloy back but my reasons for wanting a new main character are not a criticism of Aloy but high praise for what Guerilla did with her story.

It doesn't matter as we're absolutely going to be playing as Aloy in the sequel because it's the obvious and easier sell.

Playing as
Sylens
would remove the need to have another origin story but we're going to have exposition explaining what happened in the first game even if we play as Aloy.
Playing as sylens would be a nice spinoff or better still DLC.

That's a funny example considering they are essentially dropping Drake now that his personal arc is over and he's found closure. The difference is that it took them 4 games to do that while Horizon pretty much did it in 1.
Her Arc isn't over at all. Like I really don't know how you get that. She's a child and finally has a moment to herself at the end. The rest of the time it's run run run with zero choices but to survive. It's so bizarre you think she's wrapped up.
 
She doesn't find closure on several different aspects of the story which is why I want to GG to stick with her. Not too mention that the story kind of requires her for certain aspects.
What personal closure didn't she get? Genuinely curious. There are a couple world mysteries left unsolved
(like what exactly are the Cauldrons doing)
, and there are things she'll maybe want to do like
fully restoring GAIA Prime (though to what end really?)
but completing those things wouldn't really bring closure for her, only closure for us.
Her dealing with being the Anointed only really applies to the Nora and is something she'll likely just have to live with. What revelation is there for her to accept about it? Maybe she could try to teach the Nora the truth about the old world?
Let's put it this way: I think Aloy would be perfectly happy living out the rest of her days exploring the world if not for that
Hades/Sylens stinger
.
Her leaving her spear in Hades to me feels like her saying she's done. Throughout the game, she was more interested in finding out her own backstory as Sylens points out multiple times. Even her wanting to know exactly what Zero Dawn was was in service of stopping the impending threat.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
What personal closure didn't she get? Genuinely curious. There are a couple world mysteries left unsolved
(like what exactly are the Cauldrons doing)
, and there are things she'll maybe want to do like
fully restoring GAIA Prime (though to what end really?)
but completing those things wouldn't really bring closure for her, only closure for us.
Her dealing with being the Anointed only really applies to the Nora and is something she'll likely just have to live with. What revelation is there for her to accept about it? Maybe she could try to teach the Nora the truth about the old world?
Let's put it this way: I think Aloy would be perfectly happy living out the rest of her days exploring the world if not for that
Hades/Sylens stinger
.
Her leaving her spear in Hades to me feels like her saying she's done. Throughout the game, she was more interested in finding out her own backstory as Sylens points out multiple times. Even her wanting to know exactly what Zero Dawn was was in service of stopping the impending threat.
I keep saying that she hasn't had a single chance to deal with anything on screen that she learned about through out the game. The very nature of the story and the pacing at the end meant she was never on steady ground or had the time to actually deal with stuff like
her past, the Nora in general, Rost's history, her dealings with several characters in the game. Not too mention she is basically required as far as the story sets up to get access to a lot of the old world locations due to her genetic makeup. Sylens wasn't working with her on a lark. In my opinion the only thing she gets actual closure on is seemingly defeating Hades and discovering Elizabet's body. The stuff with Avad as well
 
What personal closure didn't she get? Genuinely curious. There are a couple world mysteries left unsolved
(like what exactly are the Cauldrons doing)
,
Forbidden West, Odyssey, the origin of the unknown signal, APOLLO, what the actual fuck are the other subroutines doing, etc.


and there are things she'll maybe want to do like
fully restoring GAIA Prime (though to what end really?)
This here tells me you might have missed a few things about the story.
Aloy has no other option but to fix GAIA, otherwise humans are doomed. Terraforming isn't complete and HEPHAESTUS went rogue and is creating machines that are not only more dangerous, but also view humans as a threat - it created stuff like the Stalkers specifically to exterminate humans. And that's without getting into the fact that the other rogue subroutines have control over stuff like air quality and, without GAIA, there's nothing stopping them from wrecking shit.

And fixing GAIA is something that, AFAWK, only Aloy can do because she has access and clearance to the systems.
 

forrest

formerly nacire
Just finished this last night and I really enjoyed it. Easily the best guerrilla games product I've played. Loved the machine combat, the art direction and was really surprised and please with the story.

Loved the final scene in the ending. Very touching.
 
Finally beat it.

Loved the game, best part of it was the story. I had some Open World fatigue so I did not do all the Cauldrons and focused on story and messing around in the last hours, but this game was just awesome.

Part of the story really made me mad, in a good way. You'll see when you get there.

Complaints? Well as with most games after a while some parts of the hunting game loop and AI felt really repetitive and shallow, but I still loved the approach to it which kept me coming back for more. Go in a try to fight 1:! and you will most likely die, set up traps and have a plan and you'll own even the TREx robots. Other than that everything was good, maybe add more climbing? lol

Definitely deserves the scores and praise. I hope we get sequels and more of the story.
 
I'm trying to complete some of the weapon tutorials and realized I have a Carja Sling tutorial I didn't do, but I sold it after I got the Shadow Sling. I tried doing the Carja Sling tutorial to freeze 3 machines with the freeze bombs but using the Shadow Sling and I don't think it's working. Should it work though?
 

forrest

formerly nacire
I'm trying to complete some of the weapon tutorials and realized I have a Carja Sling tutorial I didn't do, but I sold it after I got the Shadow Sling. I tried doing the Carja Sling tutorial to freeze 3 machines with the freeze bombs but using the Shadow Sling and I don't think it's working. Should it work though?
Should work yeah. Just make sure you're fulling freezing the machine and make sure its one of the ones listed as weak to ice.
 
I keep saying that she hasn't had a single chance to deal with anything on screen that she learned about through out the game. The very nature of the story and the pacing at the end meant she was never on steady ground or had the time to actually deal with stuff like
her past, the Nora in general, Rost's history, her dealings with several characters in the game.
I don't see the story potential in us watching her process all the stuff she learned. Where's the arc there?
I feel like we got that personal closure with her finding Sobek's body. The Nora are the Nora and unless her plan is to educate them in how the old world actually worked and divest them of their religious beliefs, I'm not sure exactly where else that's going to go. Her learning Rost's history was the closure on that. There are no more questions there to be answered or that even could be without talking to him.

Not too mention she is basically required as far as the story sets up to get access to a lot of the old world locations due to her genetic makeup. Sylens wasn't working with her on a lark.
Not disputing that. Doesn't mean she'd have to be the main character, just involved.

In my opinion the only thing she gets actual closure on is seemingly defeating Hades and discovering Elizabet's body. The stuff with Avad as well
Really? She had maybe three big questions at the beginning of the game.
1) Why doesn't she have a Mother/where is her Mother? Answered thoroughly and explored. 2) Why was Rost an outcast? Answered thoroughly. 3) What's the deal with these old ones ruins? Answered. After The Proving, it's why did I come from the chamber door? Answered. Who are these killers and why did they want me specifically dead/who's that woman I look like? Answered.

Forbidden West, Odyssey, the origin of the unknown signal, APOLLO, what the actual fuck are the other subroutines doing, etc.
None of that is personal. It's all world building/mystery/checklist stuff.

This here tells me you might have missed a few things about the story.
Aloy has no other option but to fix GAIA, otherwise humans are doomed. Terraforming isn't complete and HEPHAESTUS went rogue and is creating machines that are not only more dangerous, but also view humans as a threat - it created stuff like the Stalkers specifically to exterminate humans. And that's without getting into the fact that the other rogue subroutines have control over stuff like air quality and, without GAIA, there's nothing stopping them from wrecking shit.

And fixing GAIA is something that, AFAWK, only Aloy can do because she has access and clearance to the systems.
That makes sense. I didn't pick up on
HEPHAESTUS specifically targeting humans though. I know she mentions and asks what the deal is with the cauldrons doing it's own thing after she finishes the last one but I didn't see anything specifically suggesting what you mentioned.
 
Aloy is just amazing. She deserves her own series.

Nate gets his series, Lara hers, why shouldn't Aloy? Guerilla have a gem in their hands with Aloy. They should develop her more and send her to new adventures.
Aloy should just randomly wind up in a post apocalyptic NYC with robo dinosaurs, giant robo rats and raccoons and robo bears. "Sylens...why am I here?" "Cuz Hades gotta do it big Aloy."
 
None of that is personal. It's all world building/mystery/checklist stuff.
All of those (well, except
Forbidden West
) are things only Aloy knows and can deal with.

Aloy should just randomly wind up in a post apocalyptic NYC with robo dinosaurs, giant robo rats and raccoons and robo bears. "Sylens...why am I here?" "Cuz Hades gotta do it big Aloy."
Post-post-apocalyptic NYC with giant robo-rats would feel so oddly appropriate. Bet they'd come packaged with robo-roaches and robo-pigeons.
 
I've played a couple of hours of this, the game has just opened up a bit and I'm really enjoying it. Reminds me a lot of TW3. Graphics are absolutely unbelievable. Guerrilla really did their thing.
The graphics ruined every other game I was playing. Simply jaw dropping. Makes FF15 look like a last gen game. Unbelievable and exciting.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
I don't see the story potential in us watching her process all the stuff she learned. Where's the arc there?
I feel like we got that personal closure with her finding Sobek's body. The Nora are the Nora and unless her plan is to educate them in how the old world actually worked and divest them of their religious beliefs, I'm not sure exactly where else that's going to go. Her learning Rost's history was the closure on that. There are no more questions there to be answered or that even could be without talking to him.



Not disputing that. Doesn't mean she'd have to be the main character, just involved.


Really? She had maybe three big questions at the beginning of the game.
1) Why doesn't she have a Mother/where is her Mother? Answered thoroughly and explored. 2) Why was Rost an outcast? Answered thoroughly. 3) What's the deal with these old ones ruins? Answered. After The Proving, it's why did I come from the chamber door? Answered. Who are these killers and why did they want me specifically dead/who's that woman I look like? Answered.


None of that is personal. It's all world building/mystery/checklist stuff.



That makes sense. I didn't pick up on
HEPHAESTUS specifically targeting humans though. I know she mentions and asks what the deal is with the cauldrons doing it's own thing after she finishes the last one but I didn't see anything specifically suggesting what you mentioned.
We got answers but there was little actual closure as far as I'm concerned. I'd like to see the actual response to a lot of this stuff and effects it has on her and others and the longer ranging effects. And as Kaiju pointed out she still has a ton to do and I feel the series would be better letting her grow and rise to the occasion than just inserting another character to fight along side her.
 
All of those (well, except
Forbidden West
) are things only Aloy knows and can deal with.
Sylens is the only one who knows about the Unknown signal that woke Hades. The other stuff is stuff only she knows (well, her and Sylens), but it's not stuff she needs closure on. It's stuff she could do to continue Sobek's work, but there isn't some personal struggle that she has to get over there or understand about herself. Again, her interest in all that stuff was pretty much completely in service of learning about her personal history (Sylens calls this out multiple times), and in finding info to stop Hades. It's all stuff that has hooks for sequel material and stuff that could be explored but it's not necessary for closure of her personal story.

This talk is like asking Lebron to retire after his first championship at his prime.
Lol. I didn't realize Lebron was part of a constructed story with a beginning/middle/end.
 
Post-post-apocalyptic NYC with giant robo-rats would feel so oddly appropriate. Bet they'd come packaged with robo-roaches and robo-pigeons.
"Why did Gaia make such filthy robots?" "They must have been native to this sprawling urban environment." She'd probably get around by riding a mechanical Central Park horse through the subway system.
 
Sylens is the only one who knows about the Unknown signal that woke Hades.
Nope, Aloy knows about it - GAIA herself told her about it in the log where she details Aloy's creation.

The other stuff is stuff only she knows (well, her and Sylens), but it's not stuff she needs closure on. It's stuff she could do to continue Sobek's work, but there isn't some personal struggle that she has to get over there or understand about herself.
We don't know that
- it's never stated either way during the game - and the characterization and background makes it so it would be pretty justified that she'd take it as a personal task, especially after the ending sequence when she gets to know what her "mother" would want of her.
 
I just wish I could climb in this game like in Zelda.

Not being able to go to *that* special good looking spot bothers me sometime.
You can go to many places you aren't supposed to, like
the All Mother temple
after the gates are closed. Many of the mountains can be climbed by jumping.
 
OK so let's come up with new places to send Sunhi to.

He needs to get into the Sea of Thieves alpha and make so many gifs that he gets invited to Rare, then he can equip his +50% Stealth mods to sneak around the studio and find out what their unannounced project is.