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How big of an advantage does Cloud Gaming have to have over local devices for you to be happy with GaaS?

onQ123

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So far it seem like companies have just been trying to rent us games that we can already play locally on the devices we have but what if a company gave devs a cloud platform to develop games for with specs that can't be matched locally any time soon, how good will it have to be for you to see GaaS as a better choice than buying a local device?


Like if PS5 gave devs 10TF , 16GB RAM & 50GB storage to make games with but Google gave devs 40TF , 64GB RAM & 200GB storage to make games with. Would you pay $10 a month for a photorealistic game with life like physics & so on over buying the $60 PS5 version?
 

DanielsM

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No. What can sometimes make sense in business/enterprise doesn't make sense, generally speaking in the consumer side. Unless the alternative is equal in performance (which it isn't), and is cheaper over the long-term (which it isn't), generally speaking, it doesn't make sense. Which is why it hasn't done anything for a decade, meaning game streaming. How exactly is an AAA developer going to make money on a $10 rental? The bulk of game sales are made in the first few months, no way they can charge $10 a month and make money especially after the game is a few months old. PS Now actually started out that way - you rented per title. No customers.

Game streaming is a solution looking for a problem, general speaking.
 
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AgentP

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It isn't about the specs of the remote server, it about the compression and latency. I played Odyssey via Google and not only was it eating up my data limit at over 20Mbps, it looked like a blurry 1080P game that had artifacts anytime there was fast motion or dip in bandwidth. I'd rather play a 900P XB1 version.

So even if they render at 4k 60fps, the issue is the real time encoding that destroys the IQ. I don't see a solution for this in the next few years, but they will keep trying.
 

AV

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If they could genuinely pull of some outlandish technical achievements that weren't available on local hardware? Sure, i'd give it a go for fun. But I doubt I'd ever make the full transition, way too many drawbacks. I still don't really understand who the hell cloud gaming is supposed to be for. Bad internet or data caps? Worthless. Already got the hardware? Worthless.
 
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I will keep playing my old games, thanks...

Maybe it makes sense if it's almost free... I don't like recurring bills, and so far most cloud based services are not advantageous to the customer.
 

DanielsM

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If they could genuinely pull of some outlandish technical achievements that weren't available on local hardware? Sure, i'd give it a go for fun. But I doubt I'd ever make the full transition, way too many drawbacks. I still don't really understand who the hell cloud gaming is supposed to be for. Bad internet or data caps? Worthless. Already got the hardware? Worthless.
Its a solution looking for a problem, but itself is a problem and really doesn't solve anything for anyone.
 

RedVIper

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Well if this means next generation is running on 8 2080 Ti's running on SLI and I can get that performance for 10$ a month then sign me up.
You'd be limited by bandwith, the hardware part of the conversation is irrelevant.
 

DanielsM

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Well if this means next generation is running on 8 2080 Ti's running on SLI and I can get that performance for 10$ a month then sign me up.
That's one of many issues, the costs are generally going to be higher and in many cases would have to be significantly higher for someone else to manage your equipment for you, which is generally what all this is. (of course, we're ignoring the inherent problems with streaming)

Here is Shadow service, starts at $35 a month and goes up from there.
https://www.engadget.com/2019/02/27/blade-shadow-ghost-game-streaming/

There are all kinds of streaming and virtualized services available today, just not a good product for most situations for consumers, business/enterprise is a different story or can be. A few people keep saying how great all this is, yet, all of its available today and they're not signing up. LOL
 
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Spukc

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Bandwidth really isn't the problem for 80% of the U.S., latency isn't going away and it doesn't matter where you live. Of course, long-term it will cost more and probably cost significantly more.
no idea what you mean by this man. fiber here and latency has not been a problem in ages here tbh,
 

Spukc

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Oh its a problem for game streaming my man.
seen some linus vid a while ago and they are getting pretty good at it.
i play xbox one x games on my ipad pro inc ps4 pro and pc for a good time. i don't get it ..
streaming def is the future .. it takes time sure. but man some people are ready for it.
I mean people still buy music on vinyl. It's not like physical games will die, Just less. And if gaming needs one thing is less games and better quality
 

DanielsM

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seen some linus vid a while ago and they are getting pretty good at it.
i play xbox one x games on my ipad pro inc ps4 pro and pc for a good time. i don't get it ..
streaming def is the future .. it takes time sure. but man some people are ready for it.
I mean people still buy music on vinyl. It's not like physical games will die, Just less. And if gaming needs one thing is less games and better quality

Well, maybe in your alternative universe the Speed of Light isn't a problem, consider yourself lucky because us in the real world have latency (with game streaming) due to limits of the speed of light. What gaming service/s do you current subscribe to?

You say streaming is the future, well, game streaming has been around to the masses for almost a decade... why isn't everyone signing up?
 
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Spukc

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There will always be latency in streaming games, unless they solve quantum physics and the speed of light being too damn slow. ;)
Ya ya had this discussion with a retro gamer ( i spend like 500 dollars to run gba games on my telly in the best quality possible on legacy hardware) latency is a thing yes but it can get cut down to so little. Still boggles my mind why gamers of all people flatout refuse change in the format.
Enjoy both.

If any 4k streaming is a scam. as i have plenty of blurays that look better then so called 4k streams on netflix
 
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DanielsM

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Ya ya had this discussion with a retro gamer ( i spend like 500 dollars to run gba games on my telly in the best quality possible on legacy hardware) latency is a thing yes but it can get cut down to so little. Still boggles my mind why gamers of all people flatout refuse change in the format.
Enjoy both.

If any 4k streaming is a scam. as i have plenty of blurays that look better then so called 4k streams on netflix

So the question is, what game streaming service/s do you have currently? Which one have you found to be the best?
 
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Lino

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even a 40 tf server will be no match for a 10 tf PS5 because of the lag and quality compression, Local will always be the best option for at least 15-20 years more until we solve the latency problems and until internet gets faster
 

Spukc

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So the question is, what game streaming service/s do you have currently? Which one have you found to be the best?
I said that already.
I stream from home from ps4 pro xbox one x and steam pc to my ipad pro it works like a charm all devices are wired. And the ipad pro is on 5ghz wifi.
 

RedVIper

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no idea what you mean by this man. fiber here and latency has not been a problem in ages here tbh,
I don't think you understand how the inthernet works.

Also you're complaining that 4k streaming of movies is a sham, you don't realize this is much much worse for game?
 
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DanielsM

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I said that already.
I stream from home from ps4 pro xbox one x and steam pc to my ipad pro it works like a charm all devices are wired. And the ipad pro is on 5ghz wifi.
Yes, but what cloud game streaming services do you subscribe to? The topic is cloud gaming, not remote playing on your own equipment.

Were not really talking a free feature like PS Remote Play, we're talking removing your hardware and all of your gaming is done by someone else. (For the record, PS Remote Play is fine, its a good feature in a pinch, paying for it - no way)
 
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While I will say the idea of high quality streaming of consoles/desktop is something I do on the regular (RTSP streams baby! Game from your gaming PC from anywhere, as long as you have a decent internet connection!)

I will stay away from 100% cloud based gaming until I am forced to.

I'm already at the point where I stream my games, so that's not the issue for me. It's the DRM; I own my shit, not you, because it's my shit.
 

DeepEnigma

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I said that already.
I stream from home from ps4 pro xbox one x and steam pc to my ipad pro it works like a charm all devices are wired. And the ipad pro is on 5ghz wifi.
Great, now connect hundreds of people to your network and tell us the performance... and run cables thousands of miles away with server hops.

Local is no comparison. I stream at home was well once in a blue moon and it's okay, but it's definitely not the same as a Broadband Network variable.
 
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Spukc

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Yes, but what cloud game streaming services do you subscribe to? The topic is cloud gaming, not remote playing on your own equipment.
at the end if wired with fast enough connection isn't that the same thing?

Some people act like this will be the death of gaming as we know it. Spotify or netflix both didn't kill physical media. IF anything it made prices a lot cheaper!
 
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DanielsM

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at the end if wired with fast enough connection isn't that the same thing?
Well, I don't think you understand you are getting latency, this is generally not going to work for competitive mp, but let's say its equal (pretend its equal)... how much are you willing to pay for such a service?

Some people act like this will be the death of gaming as we know it.
Imo, its going to go exactly the same way as it has the last decade, nowhere.. its not even a pimple on the backside of an elephant after a decade.

So... that is why I ask you which service you have, you say its great, but you don't have a service. :)
 
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Spukc

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Well, I don't think you understand you are getting latency, this is generally not going to work for competitive mp, but let's say its equal (pretend its equal)... how much are you willing to pay for such a service?
Yes latency will always be a thing. Same as going from crt to modern tv's. But i believe they can reduce it so it is less annoying.
For pricing i hope 10 euro a month just like netflix, spotify etc. Seems like a great deal. To just casually try out some games myself.
 

DanielsM

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Yes latency will always be a thing. Same as going from crt to modern tv's. But i believe they can reduce it so it is less annoying.
For pricing i hope 10 euro a month just like netflix, spotify etc. Seems like a great deal. To just casually try out some games myself.
So lets guess/say they can't provide you everything you play today at $10 a month. So now what? None of these services are going to be able give you what you want at the price tag you are going to want, it has to cost more than what it cost you today.

Okay, say I have a dog, say I have two choices:

1. I walk the dog a few times a day, feed it a few times a day, and give it water.... and throw a ball with it here and there.

or

2. I pay someone to do #1 for me.

Which one cost more?
 
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So lets guess they can't provide you everything you play today at $10 a month. So now what? (Even if we pretend its equal quality)
And what if aliens flew out of my ass and created a neural network of cocaine and space drugs and forced everyone into this service?
You can provide an infinite number of what-if-scenarios; but those are just that, what-ifs
 

Spukc

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Yes, but they can't provide you everything you play today at $10 a month. So now what?
Well same as netflix hulu disney prime etc .. i pick the one with the most content as a side. And the games i really want i buy in a sale physically.
Gamepass right now (you download the games) maybe that is better for you. It is turning out to be a great platform. The only problem is that since i am a collector of games i almost own every must play in it. But crackdown 3 and the last tomb raider sure are fun. And i was happy to drop some cash to try them. Devs know this so all we get is MP based games and GAAS
 

iconmaster

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I'll make Retro Gaming 100% since there are still hundreds of games I have not played in my lifetime if not thousands.
This is where I'm at. The industry may move to game subscriptions and streaming entirely. I can just spend the rest of my life working through my backlog.

(I don't think this will ever happen, if only because there will always be talented indies.)
 
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DanielsM

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Well same as netflix hulu disney prime etc .. i pick the one with the most content as a side. And the games i really want i buy in a sale physically.
Gamepass right now (you download the games) maybe that is better for you. It is turning out to be a great platform. The only problem is that since i am a collector of games i almost own every must play in it. But crackdown 3 and the last tomb raider sure are fun. And i was happy to drop some cash to try them. Devs know this so all we get is MP based games and GAAS
But Netflix type services lose money, generally speaking. Now what? You are saying you'll pay $10, but you currently don't subscribe to the numerous service... and eventually the prices are going to have to be significantly more if you want anything other than renting old games.

You are assuming its cheaper, its not.

If game streaming was so great, you would already be a subscriber, the deals now are going to be better than later - as the costs are a loss at this stage.
 
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Spukc

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But Netflix type services lose money, generally speaking. Now what? You are saying you'll pay $10, but you currently don't subscribe to the numerous service... and eventually the prices are going to have to be significantly more if you want anything other than renting old games.

You are assuming its cheaper, its not.

If game streaming was so great, you would already be a subscriber, the deals now are going to be better than later - as the costs are a loss at this stage.
Nah i only use gamepass when i think something interesting is on. Netflix and spotify.
At the end you will get more for your money imo.
Playing crackdown 3 and The latest tomb raider for 3 euro's XD show me the keysite man!
 
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Its a solution looking for a problem, but itself is a problem and really doesn't solve anything for anyone.
Streaming makes sense in a few scenarios:

1. Streaming your own game collection to a different device(Steam in-home, GeForce Now).
2. Playing on a weak device like a phone.
3. "Instant" access to large subscription library(PSNow, Game Pass/XCloud). Possibly mixed with option to install or stream like PSNow.

My favorite option is #1 because the streaming is a convenient addition to local play and tied to games you already own. However, it also seems that hardware is always getting smaller, faster, and more affordable. It really comes down to convenience vs consistency. Streaming is great as a bonus option, imo. It may never be a superior way to play games compared to local hardware.
 
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You are assuming its cheaper, its not.
You're assuming something is more expensive on a hypothetical situation in the future; so which assumption on a hypothetical situation in the future is correct?
See the juxtapose?
Do keep in mind that since you're discussing what-if-scenarios, it would be wise to treat his what-ifs with the same merit you're giving yours.
 

DanielsM

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This is where I'm at. The industry may move to game subscriptions and streaming entirely. I can just spend the rest of my life working through my backlog.

(I don't think this will ever happen, if only because there will always be talented indies.)
Yeah, I get a kick out of these threads. There is the person that thinks its (game streaming) so great and its the future, but they can't explain why their not a customer today nor a customer for the last 10 years.
 

Spukc

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It is legit ignorant to think streaming won't be the future.
Look how huge spotify and netflix is.
It didn't kill music and movies. AT the end the consumer won and that is what i want.
 
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