How Kirby killed Nintendo

Feb 23, 2013
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#51
There is no dispute among gaming fans that Nintendo is not what they used to be. Years ago they dominated the industry, but in the years since their popularity and talent has withered away to virtually nothing.

Virtually everyone who has ever played another gaming platform agrees with this assessment.
The only consensus I’m seeing here is that this thread has a garbage original post.
 
May 4, 2005
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#52
Kiryb, outside of Power Paintbrush, is shit-tier way too easy platforming unworthy of Nintendo. So in a sense it is similar to this thread. The major failure in the premise of this thread is distilled in one line near the beginning:
There is no dispute among gaming fans that Nintendo is not what they used to be (...) talent has withered away to virtually nothing.
If there is no dispute on that, it is because you are alone with this asinine evaluation.
 
Likes: Hanon

Killer751

Loves Nintendo. Owns Nintendog rescue shelter.
Jul 5, 2018
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#56
Mario Odysessy and Splatoon are recent incredible games so I disagree from the start.

Also Kirby 64 was as much 3D I needed in Kirby, why does everything need to evolve in a big way? Call Of Duty has been all over the road with that logic.
I need to make a thread about Splatoon. I have a lot to say about that.

Odyssey isn't all that. Collecting things has NEVER been a good design decision for the series.
 
Likes: VertigoOA
Aug 22, 2018
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#57
"Modern Nintendo believes that every game needs to be 2D"

....then you go to mention Mario and Zelda. But obviously you have not played the new Mario and Zelda games.
I'm actually a fan of 2D, not just for nostalgic reasons but also 2D tends to be more readable, when the art style is done right (admittedly this is true of 3D also, but the quest for hyperrealism in games has rather buggered that up).
 
Likes: Airola
Apr 5, 2018
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#60
There is no dispute among gaming fans that Nintendo is not what they used to be. Years ago they dominated the industry, but in the years since their popularity and talent has withered away to virtually nothing.

Virtually everyone who has ever played another gaming platform agrees with this assessment. The question at this point is... when did this happen? How did it happen? What franchise, which developer got the ball rolling to put Nintendo in the hole where it is today?

it all began with Kirby.

Kirby was designed as a straightforward, easy to play 2D platformer aimed at younger audiences. As the series went on, not a whole lot improved or changed while Nintendo wasted their time with pathetic spin off releases that no one wanted or asked for.

Sound familiar?

Kirby isn't a popular title to criticize in this way. I imagine that this is because most fans simply overlooked all of the major red flags with the series and its creators. It was the first major Nintendo IP to not evolve in any meaningful capacity with every release, setting the modern standard for how Mario Kart and Splatoon are treated. Kirby is almost a thirty year old franchise. To this day it has NEVER received a proper 3D release. Nintendo has failed to evolve the formula in an interesting, creative way the way they did with their truly great titles. Metroid Prime, Smash, OOT, and Super Mario Bros.

Following Iwata's ascension into presidency, other Nintendo franchises began to become infected by the Kirby cancer. Every game became overtly colorful and bright. Titles like Sin and Punishment, Perfect Dark, Eternal Darkness, and Project H.A.M.M.E.R were shoved to the side in favor of derivative lazy releases like Wii Music and ExciteTruck. Paper Mario went from being this surprisingly dark and mature series to a scrapbook simulator for brain dead children. Metroid Prime went over a DECADE with no true follow up.

Meanwhile Mario Party got regular releases, despite the original developers being bought out by Konami. Donkey Kong Country was rebooted. Custom and Chibi Robo got a billion sequels that no one cared about. And Kirby continued to get new releases... During Iwata's presidency we got one almost every year, none of which good in any way, shape, or form.

Modern Nintendo believes that every game needs to be 2D. They refuse to evolve the formula of titles like Yoshi or DKC while they milk Mario and Zelda for all of its worth. Modern Nintendo refuses to allow western studios to tackle dark or mature subjects, instead forcing them to conform to what Nintendo thinks all games should be like.

I suspect that Metroid Prime 4 will be far more similar in style and tone to Federation Force than the original Metroid Prime. Nothing Nintendo has done with Kirby or any of its other franchises have really reassured me that this company can be trusted.

"Following Iwata's ascension into presidency, other Nintendo franchises began to become infected by the Kirby cancer. Every game became overtly colorful and bright."

Whaaaa huh? Ummmm that isn't something exclusive to Kirby, almost ALL Nintendo games follow this "colorful and bright" art direction.... So you are not really arguing about Kirby as much as you are about Nintendo's over all happy go lucky, family friendly, "colorful" theme. The real conversation should really be about Nintendo pushing core gaming aside for more casual concepts during the Wii period. All one has to do is look at Mario Sunshine vs Galaxy in terms of GAMEPLAY to realize the games have been dumbed down to fit a child audience to the point of the moves being removed, lessened etc. So in terms of " Nintendo has failed to evolve the formula " correct, but that includes Kirby, NINTENDO is the one that killed Kirby and the continued to kill all their other concepts with changes no one asked for.

You have to be a pretty dumb company to alter and change a arcade adventure game like Star Fox after 64 sold like 4 million units (a lot of damn units for 1997 folks), they then proceed the next 20 years trying to figure out what the fans want with it, as if it was some damn mystery to them. This is just an amount of stupid I don't fully get with a company, this is just crap you don't see from Capcom, Sony, MS, Square etc. If its any of those publisher, you would have saw a damn sequel JUST LIKE 64 many times over. So folks can complain about see Assassins Creed a bunch, Call Of Duty a bunch, 10 plus Mega Man games etc, buuuuuuuut at least those publishers UNDERSTAND what their fans actually want and proceed to keep offering it.

After 20 years, we got zero Star Fox games that came close to 64 because they DIDN'T MAKE A DAMN GAME LIKE THE 64 one, they just kept doing crap no one was even asking for. Call Of Duty isn't turning into some adventure, RPG were you hunt Dinosaurs folks.... Assassins Creed isn't turning into some damn MOBA Kart racer etc Nintendo fails many times because they don't even understand that you don't need to re-do the wheel on some of theses concepts. That isn't really a "Kirby" thing, that is this publisher HURTS ITSELF more then its competition thing.
 
Jul 9, 2018
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#61
Seeing how Breath of the Wild and Mario Odyssey were rated as high as they were I don't think your assertions hold much weight.

Replace Nintendo with Sega, then your thoughts may have some merit.
Nintendo reviews are biased. Which magazine/site would dare to give low scores for zelda/mario?

Make identical copy of zelda to ps4 and it would be maybe 8/10 because of low quality graphics and other minor issues.

10/10 should be almost flawless in most aspects.

Zelda is good, but not perfect at all.

Odyssey is boring, repetivive and kind of dull.

Opinions, but "nintendo fanboys" usually forgive flaws and dont care if game is shallow, so hard to compare reviews.

Like zelda vs witcher 3

Zelda has nothing vs witcher story, storytelling, world, graphics. It only wins in physics.

Both openworld games of similar genre.

If witcher is 9/10, Zelda just cant be more as is purely something less
 
Likes: EDMIX
Jan 15, 2018
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#62
Zelda was amazing. However it really rubbed me the wrong way how there wasn’t anything close to proper dungeons. The combat was pretty simple and a bit boring, the weapon breakage is a horrible idea. The shrines were not a satisfactory replacement for dungeons. Loved the game but in many ways it seemed like it need another 2 years in the oven. The overworld exploration is strong enough to make it the best installment since the n64 greats for sure tho.

Odyssey is where I gave up. Super Mario 64 is one of my favorite games of all time and odyssey definitely was not it’s succesor. Butt stomping mounds of dirt for shines was not fun.

Those two efforts are still far above and beyond anything else they put out. The cookie cutter yoshi and Kirby shovelware doesn’t help either.

It really all rests on metroid. But once again... Namco... lol

I’ve learned my lesson. Just wait for these consoles to die and then get the greatest hits. Switch has poor value as primary gaming platform.

Nothing to do with Kirby. Kirby is not really popular outside of Japan. We need to see where the leadership change at Nintendo will bring us after this.
 
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Apr 16, 2009
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#63
Sony reviews are biased. Which magazine/site would dare to give low scores for Uncharted/Horizon?

Make identical copy of Horizon to Nintendo or Xbox and it would be maybe 8/10 because of low quality graphics and other minor issues.

10/10 should be almost flawless in most aspects.

Uncharted is good, but not perfect at all.

Horizon is boring, repetivive and kind of dull.

Opinions, but "Sony fanboys" usually forgive flaws and dont care if game is shallow, so hard to compare reviews.

Like Horizon vs witcher 3

Horizon has nothing vs witcher story, storytelling, world, graphics. It only wins in physics.

Both openworld games of similar genre.

If witcher is 9/10, Horizon just cant be more as is purely something less

am i doing it right?
 
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Aug 12, 2018
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#64
I feel sorry for Kirby...

His first game was brilliant, sure his more recent games haven't been great, but everyone's allowed a few slides I mean look at sonic!

However, it's hardly Kirby's fault things happen, it's a company, stuff happens, people leave. Don't like the company now? Ignore it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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#65
Sony reviews are biased. Which magazine/site would dare to give low scores for Uncharted/Horizon?

Make identical copy of Horizon to Nintendo or Xbox and it would be maybe 8/10 because of low quality graphics and other minor issues.

10/10 should be almost flawless in most aspects.

Uncharted is good, but not perfect at all.

Horizon is boring, repetivive and kind of dull.

Opinions, but "Sony fanboys" usually forgive flaws and dont care if game is shallow, so hard to compare reviews.

Like Horizon vs witcher 3

Horizon has nothing vs witcher story, storytelling, world, graphics. It only wins in physics.

Both openworld games of similar genre.

If witcher is 9/10, Horizon just cant be more as is purely something less

am i doing it right?
Fucking lol. Nailed it.
 
Likes: dragonfart28
Jul 14, 2018
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#66
I'm really - like, really - neutral about Nintendo so I do sort of get where the OP is coming from, whether she/he is biased or not.

Nintendo's games can be hit and miss in terms of quality. It comes across like they pour their blood, sweat and talent into certain titles (e.g. Mario Odyssey, Smash, Zelda) and are fine to ride out others with half-baked ideas that I'm not sure anybody ever thought was a good idea (e.g. Paper Mario Sticker Star and Metroid Prime Federation Force).

I'm struggling to think of a concluding sentence but... yeah.
 
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Whataburger

Milk Connoisseur
Feb 2, 2018
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#67
I don't get these threads or rants. I don't go into toys r us ranting why they make toys for kids and not for me. I'd look like a right idiot.

If this doesn't interest you now, you move on over there > that section that interests you, and there's plenty of stuff there for you.

Nintendo never changed. I was a kid when I first played on my Famicom and loved it. They grabbed my attention. Job well done.

They're still doing the same now with their IPs.
Wait is Toys r Us still around?
 
Apr 3, 2016
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#69
Nintendo reviews are biased. Which magazine/site would dare to give low scores for zelda/mario?

Make identical copy of zelda to ps4 and it would be maybe 8/10 because of low quality graphics and other minor issues.

10/10 should be almost flawless in most aspects.

Zelda is good, but not perfect at all.

Odyssey is boring, repetivive and kind of dull.

Opinions, but "nintendo fanboys" usually forgive flaws and dont care if game is shallow, so hard to compare reviews.

Like zelda vs witcher 3

Zelda has nothing vs witcher story, storytelling, world, graphics. It only wins in physics.

Both openworld games of similar genre.

If witcher is 9/10, Zelda just cant be more as is purely something less
All reviews are biased. Every single one of them.

What makes Zelda and Mario so well received is the approach Nintendo takes with these titles. They continuously tell/re-tell the stories of Hyrule and the Mushroom Kingdon. These worlds and characters are an established mythos that many people love. Every time you play one of these games, you see a new aspect of the story.

The Witcher series does not embrace this approach.
 
#71
So in 1992 a GameBoy game killed the company we all know and love still in 2018?

Modern Nintendo refuses to allow western studios to tackle dark or mature subjects, instead forcing them to conform to what Nintendo thinks all games should be like.
Is OP writing from some dystopian future like in Segagaga, where Nintendo dictates all games?
 
Nov 9, 2013
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#72
All reviews are biased. Every single one of them.

What makes Zelda and Mario so well received is the approach Nintendo takes with these titles. They continuously tell/re-tell the stories of Hyrule and the Mushroom Kingdon. These worlds and characters are an established mythos that many people love. Every time you play one of these games, you see a new aspect of the story.

The Witcher series does not embrace this approach.
Heh...you got trolled.
 
Jul 26, 2018
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#76
The real question is if Kirby is capable of sucking up the whole of Nintendo. And if he then becomes Nintendo. What would Kirby look like? Would he wear a mask of Yamauchi?
 

Killer751

Loves Nintendo. Owns Nintendog rescue shelter.
Jul 5, 2018
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#77
So in 1992 a GameBoy game killed the company we all know and love still in 2018?



Is OP writing from some dystopian future like in Segagaga, where Nintendo dictates all games?
No, it is the reality.

Nintendo has consistently alienated all of their partners that were willing to make titles aimed at adults. Retro Studios stopped working on Metroid completely out of the blue. NST has become a shell of its former self. Rareware was sold to Microsoft. Silicon Knights and Factor Five stopped working with Nintendo entirely.

We have very clear evidence of Nintendo sabotaging titles in order to be 'creative.' Just look at what happened with Paper Mario and Federation Force. There is a VERY good reason no third party wants anything to do with them.
 
Mar 29, 2012
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#79
All Nintendo 1st party games on Switch have been underwhelming, there, I said it. I have found everything painfully average - gone are the days where I can expect a AAA experience that will blow me away because it's made by Nintendo. I'm severely disappointed with Nintendo and i'm sure most gamers agree, Nintendo doesn't even care to try anymore, just look at Mario Party, it's a kids game with 4 maps, nobody wants this...
 
Likes: Killer751
Feb 15, 2016
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#80
Nintendo has consistently alienated all of their partners that were willing to make titles aimed at adults.
Except for Intelligent Systems, Monolith, Platinum Games, and several others.

Retro Studios stopped working on Metroid completely out of the blue.
Because the people who made the original trilogy left and the team is working on a new project.

NST has become a shell of its former self
Because NST had some serious management problems during Project H.A.M.M.E.R.'s development, forcing Nintendo to step in and punish them accordingly.

Rareware was sold to Microsoft.
Because Rare's titles were selling less and less, and Microsoft simply offered the better deal.

Silicon Knights and Factor Five stopped working with Nintendo entirely.
This one is possibly the only one that might have some actual validity to it, but even then it probably isn't as extreme as you make it.

All Nintendo 1st party games on Switch have been underwhelming, there, I said it. I have found everything painfully average - gone are the days where I can expect a AAA experience that will blow me away because it's made by Nintendo. I'm severely disappointed with Nintendo and i'm sure most gamers agree, Nintendo doesn't even care to try anymore, just look at Mario Party, it's a kids game with 4 maps, nobody wants this...
No, you're basically alone.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
May 4, 2007
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#81
A distopian drama bordering on psychological issues, by 751, nevertheless? Yep, it's friday.
 
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Likes: JimboJones
Apr 19, 2015
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#87
This one is possibly the only one that might have some actual validity to it, but even then it probably isn't as extreme as you make it.

There isn't any validity to this though. Factor 5 hasn't made a game in over a decade. The games they had planned since that got cancelled were mostly Nintendo games.

And Silicon knights went bankrupt like 7 years ago unfortunately.

I'm pretty sure OP made a list of developers for the N64 and compared them to the Switch's starting line up and said "HEY FUCKIN' NINTENDO... WHERE'S MY MEGAM-MEGAMAN 64 AND COMMAND AND CONKER'S BAD FUR DAY? FUCKIN PIECE OF SHIT!" and made a thread (apparently made a bunch of them, as they're plaguing the front page now) about how ANGRY they are at this INSOLENCE!
 
Feb 15, 2016
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#88
There isn't any validity to this though. Factor 5 hasn't made a game in over a decade. The games they had planned since that got cancelled were mostly Nintendo games.

And Silicon knights went bankrupt like 7 years ago unfortunately.

I'm pretty sure OP made a list of developers for the N64 and compared them to the Switch's starting line up and said "HEY FUCKIN' NINTENDO... WHERE'S MY MEGAM-MEGAMAN 64 AND COMMAND AND CONKER'S BAD FUR DAY? FUCKIN PIECE OF SHIT!" and made a thread (apparently made a bunch of them, as they're plaguing the front page now) about how ANGRY they are at this INSOLENCE!
In which case, it shows how ignorant he is of how game development deals work, and how Nintendo must bow down to him because he's the "hardcore" or some shit.
 
Likes: Vbrasa
Feb 3, 2017
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#89
I'm curious how many long time Nintendo fans have ever not played a Kirby game. I've always thought they looked cool, never played a single one ever.

Despite the obvious trolling if there's any evidence to what dethroned Nintendo in the 90's it was the moment Sony began acquiring all of Nintendo's ownership of 3rd party titles while price-gouging the 3rd parties at the same time to purchase the cartridges directly through Nintendo.

Not that Nintendo is dead, but it will never recover the throne with what Microsoft and Sony have done and they've never intended to try to do so.
 
Sep 24, 2009
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#92
I need to make a thread about Splatoon. I have a lot to say about that.

Odyssey isn't all that. Collecting things has NEVER been a good design decision for the series.
Yes on anything Splatoon.

As for Odyssey and why both hold a place in my heart : I've never spent so much of my gaming time smiling ear-to-ear with both games, the core mechanics were simple but intuitive and fun. The reason I loved Mario so much was the constant reward of new things : Puzzles, to using our given mechanics to solve them, to costumes, areas, enemies to take over.... The whole thing was set to give emotions and I loved it.

I don't think Nintendo games are perfect but they get the core idea of FUN - something lost on a lot of other games with busy work or hardcore modes that can often be more frustration than fun in time spent.
 
Likes: DT MEDIA
Feb 5, 2009
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#94
Kirby is very popular in Japan, like that might be an understatement.

I think you are wrong, Kirby is the IP Nintendo has experimented the most. Air Ride, Dream Course, Canvas, among other and of course the Dream Land and Super Star lines.
 
May 26, 2018
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#95
Will bite.

Following Iwata's ascension into presidency, other Nintendo franchises began to become infected by the Kirby cancer. Every game became overtly colorful and bright. Titles like Sin and Punishment, Perfect Dark, Eternal Darkness, and Project H.A.M.M.E.R were shoved to the side in favor of derivative lazy releases like Wii Music and ExciteTruck. Paper Mario went from being this surprisingly dark and mature series to a scrapbook simulator for brain dead children. Metroid Prime went over a DECADE with no true follow up.
  • Sin and Punishment was set for an US release but sabotaged by NoA (who also refused to publish Conker). Iwata went out of his way to get the sequel done, and in fact told Treasure to make it harder and darker.
  • Perfect Dark is a Rare IP, and now a Microsoft IP. A GameCube sequel was indeed in the works but scrapped alongside everything that's not Star Fox Adventures, because the owners wanted to get cash and bail out asap and Nintendo wouldn't buy them so they went for Microsoft instead.
  • Eternal Darkness is Silicon Knights. Nintendo got them to make the Metal Gear Solid GC port, then they went their separate ways.
  • Factor-5 was trusted by Nintendo to make a Kid Icarus game but they kept ignoring their suggestions about the character models, general concept, etc... and wanted to do their own thing. Even leaked the concept to the press which was a big no-no (same thing happened to the Western developers of an ink shooter that would be taken over by Nintendo and become Splatoon). The Kid Icarus that released on 3DS was originally a very late Wii project they had no interest in delaying as much waiting for Factor-5's attempt before getting it started.
  • Project Hammer was a shitshow. Severe and irreconciliable cultural and creative differences with no compromising on either side was what did that project in.
  • Disaster Day of Crisis, Fatal Frame 4 and Fatal Frame 2R, Zangeki no Regliev and Pandora's Tower and Devil's Third,... were Nintendo's attempts to have serious M-rated counterparts to Sony stuff. Respectively for a Disaster Report/Uncharted experience, a horror game, and a gory hack-and-slash. All of those were sabotaged by Nintendo of America that seemingly would rather stick to kiddy stuff.
  • Metroid 64 and F-Zero Wii U were planned to be worked on by Western developers but plans never panned out. Metroid Dread after Prime 3 was cancelled. Retro Games couldn't multitask and had a significant talent drain around DKC:R's release. The Wii U happened.
Nintendo has had undeniable (and more importantly, consistent) success capturing the younger and family market. The existence of games like Kirby, Starfy (which they skipped much of it because it was too weird and too kiddy), Mario, Yoshi, and their various party games aren't really a negative. Even Namco and Konami in their heyday had equivalent franchises (Klonoa, Animal Crossing clones, Professor Layton clones, party games, edutainment games which is one area even Nintendo is lacking in...)
In their business briefings, Sony lament their utter failure to capture that market segment with the Vita or the PS4, or to attract third party publishers who would provide that, in a self fullfilling prophecy, and that's how they end up investing in games like Knack and Puppeteer. Even Microsoft tried it at some point with Blinx, and recently crafted a billion dollar deal just to get some of that pie with Minecraft.
 
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Sep 25, 2015
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#98
All the threads by you OP:

- Will children pay for Nintendo Switch online?

- Star Fox Zero is one of the worst games ever made

- The Downfall and decline of Retro Studios (Happy 20th Birthday!)

- Making games for children is a creative dead end

- How Kirby killed Nintendo
Looks like Killer751 threads are the new Mister Apoc threads :unsure:

Unfortunately my Splatoon thread was locked by a mod that did not like the fact that I have nothing nice to say about Nintendo.
And you're absolutely certain that it wasn't because your writing style presents opinions as facts, omits any actual evidence to back up the controversial statements you're making, and is rapidly developing into a 'history of infractions' when it comes to posting stuff like this?
 
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