How long will the liberal coalition last?

When will the liberal/progressive coalition unravel?

  • After Trump leave office

    Votes: 7 33.3%
  • The first woman president

    Votes: 1 4.8%
  • The first woman of color president

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The first lgbt president

    Votes: 1 4.8%
  • Whites become the racial minority

    Votes: 12 57.1%

  • Total voters
    21
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#1
Right now, it appears that the left have built a grand coalition of very diverse folks including but not limited to: lgbt, blacks, hispanics, women, rich white liberals, young college students, (insert other minority group here). The world would be a better place if coalitions like these last, but history has shown such things tend to break apart sooner or later. Take South Africa for example, after Nelson Mandela took over, he promised the world a rainbow nation. Fast forward to today and the county is in shamble, with terrible economy, rampant racism against all groups and mass violence and murder rates.

The liberal coalition has a common enemy right now, middle class white males. What happens after they defeat this enemy by making him meek and feeble? They will surely fight amongst themselves.

Historically, blacks and Hispanics generally did not get along very well. In inner cities where Hispanics now make the majority minority group, there are frequent tension and conflicts in the school system as well as mixed neighborhoods. Blacks also hold very homophobic/racist prejudices against lgbt, whites and asians. Hispanics and blacks communities also tend to be patriarchal, so unless education, wealth, attitudes drastically change, I don't think gender equality is a very high concern for these particular groups.

People tend to congregate and gravitate toward those they are familiar with. What happens when the binds that tie unravel? Will people create new enemies with each other or will unity prevail? History has shown otherwise so what makes the liberals think their utopia can work?
 
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JordanN

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#2
I remember reading an interesting theory that in 10 years, the Republican Party will become the new Democratic Party.

White Liberals will become the new targets of "progressive" politics, and they will jump ship to the Republicans who will form a coalition of both left and right-wing White people.
 
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I remember reading an interesting theory that in 10 years, the Republican Party will become the new Democratic Party.

White Liberals will become the new targets of "progressive" politics, and they will jump ship to the Republicans who will form a coalition of both left and right-wing White people.
This sounds like some Game of Thrones shit
 
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JordanN

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#7
Its time to accept that its not a coalition and its just people who don't agree with right wing politics.
I somewhat agree with this.

Look at the 2018 midterm elections and break it down by groups.



Only Whites are split in the middle voting for left and right parties. Everyone else, clearly votes in one direction.

I also remember seeing this map from the 2016 election that really puts things into perspective. People vote based on group interest, not platforms.

 
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I think in the future, if they continue to go their current way, the democratic party will face many more problems.

Right now their politics are based on minorities and self-created victim groups. They almost completely forget about a huge part of the people living in the country. That's a dangerous game to play, because a want-to-be-government, that divides it's voters into many different groups, which also include (old) white people, will not be able to cater to everyone in the future. There will be a point in the future where you have to accept that people are different but equal.

Most hispanics, blacks and asians don't vote for the democrats, because they really could provide a better live for them, but because people tend to need a common enemy and the democrats are doing a very good job creating it. They intensively work with emotions and creating a common concept of the enemy. That's one of the reasons why they cater more to PoC and women. Just check the charts above. The majority of both groups clearly favor democrats and both groups are always tend to be the "victim" in the narrative of the democrats.

Coming back to the question of the topic: the liberal coalition will end as soon as a fight for votes is not needed anymore or another strategy would be more promising for getting into a position of power.
 
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Most hispanics, blacks and asians don't vote for the democrats, because they really could provide a better live for them, but because people tend to need a common enemy and the democrats are doing a very good job creating it. They intensively work with emotions and creating a common concept of the enemy, that's also one of the reasons why they cater more to PoC and women. The majority of both groups clearly favor democrats and both groups are always the "victim" in the narrative of the democrats.
Republicans still continue to not learn anything. The dark vein of intolerance still runs amok.

Secondly republican state governments are untrustworthy.
 
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i_am_ben

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It will last until the right starts to pursue policies which expands its reach beyond its current core demographic.

At the moment, Republican policies are isolating huge chunks of the electorate such as Black Americans, Hispanic Americans, and increasingly women.

As you suggest, the Democratic coalition is large and often unwieldy. Many of the interests of some groups are in direct competition to others, but they feel as though they don't have anywhere to turn.
 
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Cunth

Fingerlickin' Good!
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I just want to know how progressives think the world can work in their fantasy views. High salaries for everyone, but you don’t actually have to work cause there will be free universal income for everyone too. And anyone can live anywhere. And everyone will be happy. All that needs to change is everything we have built in society, and the nature of humans themselves
 
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#20
It's really not gonna end. Like you said, people gravitate toward something they're familiar with. People will gravitate toward a political group who they feel will most likely help them at the end of the day.

I just want to know how progressives think the world can work in their fantasy views. High salaries for everyone, but you don’t actually have to work cause there will be free universal income for everyone too. And anyone can live anywhere. And everyone will be happy. All that needs to change is everything we have built in society, and the nature of humans themselves
Maybe stop listening to propaganda and listen to the platform and it would make sense to you? Really, you just used every lazy right wing argument against socialized medicine and food assistance. I'm surprised you didn't throw in forced gay marriage to dogs and pigs.
 
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#22
It's really not gonna end. Like you said, people gravitate toward something they're familiar with. People will gravitate toward a political group who they feel will most likely help them at the end of the day.



Maybe stop listening to propaganda and listen to the platform and it would make sense to you? Really, you just used every lazy right wing argument against socialized medicine and food assistance. I'm surprised you didn't throw in forced gay marriage to dogs and pigs.
Socialised medicine and food assistance I’m open to if you can demonstrate how you’re going to sustainably pay for it, but I draw the line at forcing me to marry Clementine Ford.
 
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#25
People will gravitate toward a political group who they feel will most likely help them at the end of the day.
That's so not true.

People will be attracted to stories, feelings and emotions. That's just how our brains are working. That's how advertising is working. You don't sell a product, you're trying to sell a good feeling. That's also why populism can reach a lot of people and that's also why the democrats reach a lot of minorities. But neither this nor the other must gravitate to the truth as long is it can create emotions and provide a sense of belonging.
 
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#26
That's so not true.

People will be attracted to stories, feelings and emotions. That's just how our brains are working. That's how advertising is working. You don't sell a product, you're trying to sell a good feeling. That's also why populism can reach a lot of people and that's also why the democrats reach a lot of minorities. But neither this nor the other must gravitate to the truth as long is it can create emotions and provide a sense of belonging.
The progressives have been selling the same brand of politics since 1965 and what has that yielded the blacks/brown communities who blindly buy into it every election cycle? Mass incarceration, crime, failing schools and neighborhoods, culture of victimhood and resentment, wealth disparity, and the perpetual underclass.

It's not results that lure in certain minority groups to the progressive side, it is the slick but empty promise that government is the solutions to all of their problems. Government will give you house, food, school, health care, transportation, just keep voting democrats. Dependency and letting others control your destiny in life s what is keeping certain minority groups from achieving the American dream.

Kayne West tried to explain this but was shut down by the progressive political machine. There is no such thing as a black conservative according to them so Kayne must be fake.

 
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#27
Kayne West tried to explain this but was shut down by the progressive political machine. There is no such thing as a black conservative according to them so Kayne must be fake.
Who says such bullshit? Of course there are conservative black people, just look at views on religion, homosexuality, gender, conservative positions are very common in black communities in the USA. However, the Republicans are not merely conservative. There are xenophobic elements to it, even more neoliberalism than with the neoliberal democrats and downright white supremacist views in prominent politicians from the Republicans, all of which are positions that are a detriment to most black people. Add to this a stance against affirmative action (which would benefit black people proportionally), then, if you define people's identities primarily by categories such as race, and assume that people are out to vote to propel their "race" forward, it would be strange for a black person to vote Republican. However, it is of course a fallacy that (all / most) people define themselves so strongly by their "race" and make this factor the deciding one for their pick in the election.

I just want to know how progressives think the world can work in their fantasy views. High salaries for everyone, but you don’t actually have to work cause there will be free universal income for everyone too. And anyone can live anywhere. And everyone will be happy. All that needs to change is everything we have built in society, and the nature of humans themselves
Please show to me which left or progressive leaning parties demand this. Universal income is a fringe idea and one for a future where automatisation has progressed so far that the majority of people cannot find any work anymore. It is not a core point to left or progressive politics.
 
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#28
Who says such bullshit? Of course there are conservative black people, just look at views on religion, homosexuality, gender, conservative positions are very common in black communities in the USA. However, the Republicans are not merely conservative. There are xenophobic elements to it, even more neoliberalism than with the neoliberal democrats and downright white supremacist views in prominent politicians from the Republicans, all of which are positions that are a detriment to most black people. Add to this a stance against affirmative action (which would benefit black people proportionally), then, if you define people's identities primarily by categories such as race, and assume that people are out to vote to propel their "race" forward, it would be strange for a black person to vote Republican. However, it is of course a fallacy that (all / most) people define themselves so strongly by their "race" and make this factor the deciding one for their pick in the election.

Please show to me which left or progressive leaning parties demand this. Universal income is a fringe idea and one for a future where automatisation has progressed so far that the majority of people cannot find any work anymore. It is not a core point to left or progressive politics.
Being socially conservative but fiscally progressive just means these individuals are moderates, leaning left or right depending on their life experience and situation. The black voting bloc is overwhelming democrat, so the few black republican are the exceptions and not the rule. Which supports my stance that the progressive party is intolerant of black conservatives, calling them uncle tom. Every party has its fringe members, but they don't represent what the whole party stand for, just as how Maxine Waters, Alexandria Ocasio Cortes don't represent the whole progressive party.

Affirmative action has helped black folks move forward, we already have a black person in the highest office. It can be argued that affirmative action has achieve its goal of providing equal opportunity and that it is heading toward a different purpose of equality of outcome, which harms other groups such as whites and asians.
 
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Deleted member 77995

Unconfirmed Member
#29
I just want to know how progressives think the world can work in their fantasy views. High salaries for everyone, but you don’t actually have to work cause there will be free universal income for everyone too. And anyone can live anywhere. And everyone will be happy. All that needs to change is everything we have built in society, and the nature of humans themselves
Universal income would be a simplification of the welfare system.
 
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#30
Universal income would be a simplification of the welfare system.
Universal income slows down social and technological progress, increases unemployment and it will produce many people without any sense of a goal in their life. It is a safety net that can and will be abused. It will lead to more hate, crime and disgust because we are humans. In the end it will lead to more dumb and more lazy people. The results of an universal income cannot be measured by simple numbers and it is everything people should fear if you really want to change the things that gave most of us what we have today - a good life.
 
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#31
I somewhat agree with this.

Look at the 2018 midterm elections and break it down by groups.



Only Whites are split in the middle voting for left and right parties. Everyone else, clearly votes in one direction.

I also remember seeing this map from the 2016 election that really puts things into perspective. People vote based on group interest, not platforms.


Did you read the actual source of this image? For those who haven't...

https://brilliantmaps.com/if-only-x-voted/

It clearly states:

The map above shows how the 2016 US Presidential election might go if only one demographic group got the vote. The map was created by Ste Kinney-Fields and is based on data from from fivethirtyeight and 270towin. You can read the full article here.



Disclaimer: This post was written before the 2016 election results, so was a best guess as to how each group would vote.
So this wasn't even based on real data... just polls. I don't dispute that Republicans clearly have a problem attracting minority voters, but you tried to pass this image off as actual data and it's basically a graphical representation of polls taken a couple weeks+ before the election.
 
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its not going to unravel. those are the things that define the liberal coalition. identity politics has taken stage front-and-center. no need to offer any general solutions bc it's "racist." the corporate oligarchs running the left and right have defined the left this way bc it is suitable to them. we've been hearing about "demographics are in our favor" for at least 10 years now. there is no looking back.

the two parties have an iron grip on our system. they aren't going anywhere. i remember people thinking that W was such a disaster it would destroy the GOP. all it takes is someone worse to show up and all that is forgotten, people are shipping him and Michelle for lolz.
 
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#34
I’m liberal but didn’t get Liberal Coaliton newsletters or a membership pins. Who do I call about this? Is there like a mug or bumper sticker they could send me at least? Maybe I never signed up correctly. I thought the dude asking for my SSN was suspect.

Wait, is this why my savings account disappeared???!?
 
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That is a stupid question, set to frame an argument.
As long as America has effectively a two party system politicians on both sides will work to competitive in elections, if one gains the upper hand the other changes policy.
 
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#37
The Liberal coalition will never end if Democrats get their way on immigration. They want a huge underclass of people in the largest cities and states that cannot get jobs legally, will not learn the language, will feel victimized, and will support Democrats no matter what, because that is their wing of protection. Democrats know a wall will hurt their chances of taking over areas like Texas, which completely turns the tide for Republicans.

Other than that, the rest of their support is always in fresh supply. There will always be young, dumb, people. Who believe older people tend to be Republican because they are old, racist, and set in their ways. When reality, they are Liberals because they are young and dumb. Black people show no sign of voting differently either.
 
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#38
Probably never? I think it's fine to have conservative views, but when you're actively working against minorities and POC, then don't act surprised when they turn against you. Reading the Democrat's political positions, it's clear to see that many of them support a strong social safety net and promoting equality of opportunity, something that almost all left leaning people are in favor of.

One thing I don't think people understand is that poverty is cyclical, and extremely hard to get out of. When a person is born poor, they don't get access to the same educational or financial opportunities as the more fortunate, making them struggle in life. Their kids will be born into poverty as a result of their struggle, and the cycle continues. I think trying to break that cycle is extremely important to improve the standard of living in the states. Whether it be by UBI or by providing free community college and better education, it remains to be seen.
 
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#39
Probably never? I think it's fine to have conservative views, but when you're actively working against minorities and POC, then don't act surprised when they turn against you. Reading the Democrat's political positions, it's clear to see that many of them support a strong social safety net and promoting equality of opportunity, something that almost all left leaning people are in favor of.

One thing I don't think people understand is that poverty is cyclical, and extremely hard to get out of. When a person is born poor, they don't get access to the same educational or financial opportunities as the more fortunate, making them struggle in life. Their kids will be born into poverty as a result of their struggle, and the cycle continues. I think trying to break that cycle is extremely important to improve the standard of living in the states. Whether it be by UBI or by providing free community college and better education, it remains to be seen.
How about not having 10 babies from different father's? Don't have sex when they are not ready for the consequences. They about how much money they get from the government
 
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#40
I think we're already seeing the split in the Democratic party. Once President Trump leaves office they'll lose their common enemy and turn on each other. We saw it during the primaries and we're seeing again with the Bernie/AOC faction versus the neoliberals.
 
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#41
At the latest when democrats turn the rest of the US into brazil tier ghettos and all the idiots that voted for them cause of the "muh white devil" narrative that was sold to them realize it was never about them it was about votes so in about two decades.
The way democrats promote mass illegal immigration, turn cities into ghettos or dropped BLM as soon as they lost the 2016 election should even tell the dumbest useful idiots that they dont care about the citizens and dont care about "social" issues its all about the democrat party establishments future power and votes if they are in control no matter what there is no reason for them to care about doing even the minimum which they already dont which is why they now sell whitey Bogeyman narrative/fear narratives (funny how the sides switched) to united people for votes, you dont need a group of people as "enemy" if you have solutions but again its about power and nothing else.
 
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How about not having 10 babies from different father's? Don't have sex when they are not ready for the consequences. They about how much money they get from the government
That just plays into my argument. You have to think farther back.

Exactly why are they making those poor decisions? It's not like they wake up one day and decide to have 5 different baby-daddies. Poor decisions like these are bred from not having the understanding of what it means to make choices like these and the potential consequences that follow. Who's to blame? The average conservative would say the person themselves. If you dig deeper though, you start to find the roots of the tree. Abusive parents, non-existent family members, growing up in poor neighborhoods, lack of access to quality education. There are a number of outside factors out of their control that set them up on a path to failure.

I get a lot of people who have never had that kind of experience are quick to blame the person for their own decisions. That's only partially true, and that's a big portion of the Democrat's platform. It's not to give out handouts just because. The point is to find those underlying problems with our society that cause people to fail and to fix them.

If you make people more likely to succeed, the safety net won't be needed as much.
 
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#43
That just plays into my argument. You have to think farther back.

Exactly why are they making those poor decisions? It's not like they wake up one day and decide to have 5 different baby-daddies. Poor decisions like these are bred from not having the understanding of what it means to make choices like these and the potential consequences that follow. Who's to blame? The average conservative would say the person themselves. If you dig deeper though, you start to find the roots of the tree. Abusive parents, non-existent family members, growing up in poor neighborhoods, lack of access to quality education. There are a number of outside factors out of their control that set them up on a path to failure.

I get a lot of people who have never had that kind of experience are quick to blame the person for their own decisions. That's only partially true, and that's a big portion of the Democrat's platform. It's not to give out handouts just because. The point is to find those underlying problems with our society that cause people to fail and to fix them.

If you make people more likely to succeed, the safety net won't be needed as much.
What you are arguing for is merely finding excuses for bad choices. It does not absolve them from accepting responsibility. Can we start blaming the environment for people committing murder, arson, rape?

Do you think so little of black people that you suggest they don't have the free will/agency to make good choices and that their behaviors are conditioned and shaped like mangy animals? That speaks more to your cynical perspective than conservatives, who believe humans have the ability to grow,overcome, and succeed.
 
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JordanN

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Apr 21, 2012
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#44
That just plays into my argument. You have to think farther back.

Exactly why are they making those poor decisions? It's not like they wake up one day and decide to have 5 different baby-daddies. Poor decisions like these are bred from not having the understanding of what it means to make choices like these and the potential consequences that follow. Who's to blame? The average conservative would say the person themselves. If you dig deeper though, you start to find the roots of the tree. Abusive parents, non-existent family members, growing up in poor neighborhoods, lack of access to quality education. There are a number of outside factors out of their control that set them up on a path to failure.

I get a lot of people who have never had that kind of experience are quick to blame the person for their own decisions. That's only partially true, and that's a big portion of the Democrat's platform. It's not to give out handouts just because. The point is to find those underlying problems with our society that cause people to fail and to fix them.

If you make people more likely to succeed, the safety net won't be needed as much.
Can you explain to me what exactly "quality education" is?

I posted in another thread that schools 100 years ago didn't actually have internet or calculators. How is modern schooling suppose to be worse than this?

 
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appaws

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Jan 31, 2008
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#45
Most hispanics, blacks and asians don't vote for the democrats, because they really could provide a better live for them, but because people tend to need a common enemy and the democrats are doing a very good job creating it. They intensively work with emotions and creating a common concept of the enemy. That's one of the reasons why they cater more to PoC and women. Just check the charts above. The majority of both groups clearly favor democrats and both groups are always tend to be the "victim" in the narrative of the democrats.
I actually don't agree with this. Hispanics and Blacks (but not Asians) are overwhelmingly government clients. Almost all wealth in those communities is generated by the state, either as transfer payments or as government patronage jobs. (Think the surly black DMV lady) Middle-class whites are almost all employed in the private sector, while the black middle-class is sustained by the public sector.

This is why minority groups are beholden to Democratic politicians, and why it makes 100% perfect sense for them to do so. Baby Boomer Republicans doing the "Demz are the real raycisss" are actually completely wrong, and the GOP will never be able to become competitive among those groups as long as there is any ideology of limited government still around. There will never be a wave of "right-wing Catholic Mexicans," because of social issues, like in the Bush family fantasy world, because they will put their economic dependency on Leviathan first, and vote that way.
 
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#46
I just want to know how progressives think the world can work in their fantasy views. High salaries for everyone, but you don’t actually have to work cause there will be free universal income for everyone too. And anyone can live anywhere. And everyone will be happy. All that needs to change is everything we have built in society, and the nature of humans themselves
So everyone should just shut up, accept this shit and stop striving to make things better? Good grief
 
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#47
The Liberal coalition will never end if Democrats get their way on immigration. They want a huge underclass of people in the largest cities and states that cannot get jobs legally, will not learn the language, will feel victimized, and will support Democrats no matter what, because that is their wing of protection. Democrats know a wall will hurt their chances of taking over areas like Texas, which completely turns the tide for Republicans.

Other than that, the rest of their support is always in fresh supply. There will always be young, dumb, people. Who believe older people tend to be Republican because they are old, racist, and set in their ways. When reality, they are Liberals because they are young and dumb. Black people show no sign of voting differently either.
Just wanna make sure I understand your point.

Are you saying all liberals are young and dumb, or that all young and dumb people are liberals?
 
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Sep 4, 2018
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#48
thing is, what liberals SAY they want and what they actually want are two different things. Hillary articulated this as "public position and private position". Obama says he wants to shut down, Gitmo, Gitmo actually stays open. He says he wants to give everyone health care, he passes a bill making it a crime to not buy from the crooked insurance companies. He says he wants to be a transparent administration, they end up prosecuting more whistleblowers than ever. And so on. And so on.

it is funny tho to see right wing talking points about the horrible fantasies. it paints a much more liberal version of liberals than actually exists. in truth they are nearly all corporate whores who just want to appear progressive.

and lol @ "high salaries", like who doesn't want to make more money?