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Game Dev How PlayStation 5 exclusive Returnal is keeping the arcade fires alive, Housemarque on the PT influence, justifying the £70 price tag and the future

MastaKiiLA

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Wouldn't a Rogue Like be the best value for $70? Aren't Rogue Like's supposed to be infinitely replayable? I mean the levels are never the same, so in theory you would never get tired of the levels? If you're equating time with value, this is your game. Or should all "rogue likes" be cheaper title games? I feel like some of you really don't appreciate the people, or the amount of work, that goes into making your hobby a reality. Imagine someone telling you that what you did, what you produced, no matter what, be it a line of code, a fucking burger, a floor you had to clean and them saying "I don't think that's worth what your being paid" A part of me sometimes thinks that most of us are just a bunch of spoiled, whiny, entitled dicks 🤷‍♂️ but then I remember that it's 2021, we are all pretty much spoiled, whiny, and entitled dicks.

BTW I do believe that $70 is pushing it, but I just find the idea of a "genre" having to be a certain price kinda weird. "No compact coupe should be more than $30,000..." "Hold my beer" - BMW
This. The great irony that a game that should be infinitely replayable is somehow less valuable than a linear 10-20hr game that gets shelved the moment you beat it. Housemarque makes great games. So if you enjoy the gameplay, you should easily get your $70 worth by pounding through levels over and over. That's if the argument is genuine and not just the old consumer gripe any time prices go up. I don't like it, but game prices have not scaled with inflation. We had $60 and $70 games back on the SNES, so in theory, we should be paying a lot more than we do. Gamers seem to accept that console prices have to go up, but not games, even though dev costs keep scaling, and studios continue to fold or get bought up. The economics are not in the devs' favor here. It's not like game developers are ripping us off when some of them can't even keep the lights on.
 
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rofif

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Sep 13, 2019
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$95 (349pln) on Allegro.

I don't see any way that game could be better than Hades. Even graphics, IMO it's super ugly and hard to read what is happening.
Jesus christ...
Context for anyone wondering.
100$ is what polish person makes in like 3 days according to average wage.
I am a super rich engineer of course so it takes me only 1 full day of work but how are normal polish people suppose to buy ps5 games is beyond me.
To say the truth, that is too much for me too....
 

MonarchJT

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Take Two already rose NBA 2K's price so it isn't just on Sony. If you think most of these big publishers didn't have that discussion already and are only considering it because Sony did it you're wrong
How about blaming Sony AND the others? the fact that others are also following Sony's horrendous example does not make them any less guilty. It is one thing to slightly raise the prices of titles with AAA mega-productions ... another AA titles with less than 50 developers and make us pay more than RDR2 ... just embarrassing and ridiculous. The medium c production cost was around 7 millions ... the returnal will be around that imagine how much they scalping us
 
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Pejo

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It's going to take something really special to get me to buy ANY game at 70 dollars new. Stuff like this is perfect for the "Wait 6 months until it's 30 bucks" model. Game looks interesting, but I don't like rogue-like mechanics, so we'll see.
 
Jan 11, 2019
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I'm all in like xenomorphs to a face. Now to snag a PS5.

Handshake Reaction GIF


Let's get it.
 

chinoXL

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This. The great irony that a game that should be infinitely replayable is somehow less valuable than a linear 10-20hr game that gets shelved the moment you beat it. Housemarque makes great games. So if you enjoy the gameplay, you should easily get your $70 worth by pounding through levels over and over. That's if the argument is genuine and not just the old consumer gripe any time prices go up. I don't like it, but game prices have not scaled with inflation. We had $60 and $70 games back on the SNES, so in theory, we should be paying a lot more than we do. Gamers seem to accept that console prices have to go up, but not games, even though dev costs keep scaling, and studios continue to fold or get bought up. The economics are not in the devs' favor here. It's not like game developers are ripping us off when some of them can't even keep the lights on.
yessir you guys get it and i remember paying 70 for final fantasy 3 on super nintendo...iit was honestly only a matter of time before the prices crept up from 60 bucks
 

VysePSU

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Didn’t we just have a similar thread about Destruction All Stars and they cut the price of that awfully fucking fast.

These games aren’t worth the asking price and people that pay it, deserve to be mocked later for it.
Why?
 
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Valonquar

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This game falls in the exact same category as Control for me. I think it looks nice from the promotional material. Seems like it has interesting story and lore. I also have no desire to purchase it at inflated entry price and can comforablly wait for it to get discounted sub $20 or free on PS+. It's both annoying and nice there aren't enough games that I just plain MUST HAVE on day one anymore.
 
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Mercenary09

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Dec 23, 2019
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How about blaming Sony AND the others? the fact that others are also following Sony's horrendous example does not make them any less guilty. It is one thing to slightly raise the prices of titles with AAA mega-productions ... another AA titles with less than 50 developers and make us pay more than RDR2 ... just embarrassing and ridiculous. The medium c production cost was around 7 millions ... the returnal will be around that imagine how much they scalping us
I don't know where you get your information. Also I paid more than $70 for games back in the 90's. Games could be anywhere between $70-$90 back then. You should just be glad that they were at $60 for as long as they were
 
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MonarchJT

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I don't know where you get your information. Also I paid more than $70 for games back in the 90's. Games could be anywhere between $70-$90 back then. You should just be glad that they were at $60 for as long as they were
here in europe they are asking something like 70 euro (should be something like 85usd) for an AA game ...inexcusable.
in the 90' there wasn't the € and here is in my country no game would have cost more than € 50 (in the conversion would be like today € 100)
 
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I hate when people say "arcade gameplay" without realizing that "arcade gameplay" is basically genres and genre trappings/elements still pervasive in most games today. Devil May Cry can be called an "arcade" game since its game design lineage can be traced back to friggin' Ghouls 'n Ghosts if you want to be technical about it.

Still though, this game looks pretty fun. I don't get the people saying it doesn't look like a $70 game because they never quantify what that means to them. You want a massively open world game? Okay, but not every game needs to be that and virtually every open-world game has content that's just boring filler. If a game is fun to play and has game mechanics that make it fun to replay and master, I'd say the enjoyment factor through that should justify the price.

Sadly too many gamers today just aren't that interested in having fun through mastering game mechanics.

Huge mistake at 70. 19 to 29

We have been spoiled with quality indy stuff at extremely reasonable price in the ps4 xbx1 gen.

You guys keep wondering why we keep getting the same boring AssCreed, COD, Ubi open-world stuff recycled time and again? Well, this mentality right here is why. You haven't even played the game yet, but somehow you can gauge it's "only" worth $20 or $30? How do you know if the game mechanics they have to fine-tune didn't take as much (if not more time) than the filler content so many typical AAA open-world games churn out to justify their dollar value?

I swear, gamers are their own worst enemy at times. We complain about not getting enough new genuine experiences at mid-tier and AAA budgets, but complain about games that are looking to do those things because they don't have a big brand name attached to them or don't promise 50+ hours of gameplay (a lot of that being useless filler to eat away time through trinket trophy/achievement collecting). No wonder Sony basically shut down Japan Studio; they could put out something genuinely amazing but the vast majority of gamers probably wouldn't support it because it doesn't have the simple bullet points they come to associate with "full-priced experiences".

When are some gamers gonna mature, I swear...
 
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Aenima

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Lol i dont even realized untill now this guys are the same devs of Super Stardust HD and Resogun. Its crazy how they moved from small arcade indie games to a big production like this Returnal.

Funny thing, my 1st trophy ever was from Super Stardust HD. That and Resoguns was amazing games. Im not a fan of rogue-like mechanics with procedural generated levels and diferent enemy positions, but knowing they past games, makes me more optimistic about Returnal. Will not be a day 1 buy for me, but now im more interested in it.
 

Sygma

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There is nothing that can justify the £70 price tag.

Especially not for this type of game in a world where hades sells for £20.

I would straight up pay 70 bucks for a next gen Risk of Rain 2 in terms of presentation, and Returnal seems to be exactly that minus the outrageous enemy density on the map so I'm still gonna wait before making a decision. There are few type of games offering 100+ hours of fun and these typically fall under that genre (Dead cells, slay the spire, Darkest Dungeon, Hades, Risk of Rain / 2 are all worth it) same for good looters / strategy games. Comparing Returnal to an isometric game which would definitely run on 5 years old if not more android phones is silly
 
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Rhazer Fusion

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The game looks really nice to me. I’m definitely looking forward to it. Yeah, $70 seems kind of steep from what I’m seeing, but I’ve seen crazier pricing structures like some inferior third party ports on Switch at $60 for example.
 

Arkam

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I am still on the fence with this game. It looks very interesting... but also generic at the same time.

Will be waiting for some hands on previews/reviews before I decide if it’s for me.
 

HoofHearted

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Game looks great.. certainly would/will buy it at a reasonable price.

$70 for any game is not a reasonable price ... well, maybe a very select few.

This trend of trying to pump up the standard price of games to $70 isn’t supportable and will only drive more to paying for GaaS options (Gamepass, etc.).
 
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FrozenFlame

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See, here's the thing. When Remnant from the Ashes came out, me and my coop buddy enjoyed what we saw and decided to purchase it. BUT... it was because the game price was 40€ (and it had coop, something that Returnal doesn't have). It was a new ip, the game didn't look it had high value production, it was janky...

Now, eventually when they release RFTA2, will I buy it at normal retail price? Probably, assuming that it's way more polished and has more content. But if the first game was 80€ (and let's say more polished for next gen), no, I wouldn't purchase it.
Returnal looks good but it's a new IP and the first AAA project from Housemarque. The $70/80€ price tag is already dumb for this gen, but it's even more for games that lack strong selling points.
 

edbrat

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Love Housemarque games, love rogue-lites and this looks great. Easily worth 70 to me, way happier paying 70 for this then some Ubishit or microtransaction infested EA garbage. Seems there are a lot of people of limited means on GAF who are also miserably tightfisted, perhaps look for a cheaper hobby?
 
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Foorbits

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Love Housemarque games, love rogue-lites and this looks great. Easily worth 70 to me, way happier paying 70 for this then some Ubishit or microtransaction infested EA garbage. Seems there are a lot of people of limited means on GAF who are also miserably tightfisted, perhaps look for a cheaper hobby?
I’m buying it, doesn’t stop the fact it will bomb, have minimal updates and be another step towards Housemarque’s end. Should have been $40 tops or a Plus game.
 
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Astorian

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I’m buying it, doesn’t stop the fact it will bomb, have minimal updates and be another step towards Housemarque’s end. Should have been $40 tops or a Plus game.
They should pay us to play the game, how dare they charge full price for their work.
 

Foorbits

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They should pay us to play the game, how dare they charge full price for their work.
The market is changing. Adapt or close up shop.

Instead the are doubling down with a higher price on an unknown game with minimal appeal. Should work out well. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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I hate when people say "arcade gameplay" without realizing that "arcade gameplay" is basically genres and genre trappings/elements still pervasive in most games today. Devil May Cry can be called an "arcade" game since its game design lineage can be traced back to friggin' Ghouls 'n Ghosts if you want to be technical about it.

Still though, this game looks pretty fun. I don't get the people saying it doesn't look like a $70 game because they never quantify what that means to them. You want a massively open world game? Okay, but not every game needs to be that and virtually every open-world game has content that's just boring filler. If a game is fun to play and has game mechanics that make it fun to replay and master, I'd say the enjoyment factor through that should justify the price.

Sadly too many gamers today just aren't that interested in having fun through mastering game mechanics.



You guys keep wondering why we keep getting the same boring AssCreed, COD, Ubi open-world stuff recycled time and again? Well, this mentality right here is why. You haven't even played the game yet, but somehow you can gauge it's "only" worth $20 or $30? How do you know if the game mechanics they have to fine-tune didn't take as much (if not more time) than the filler content so many typical AAA open-world games churn out to justify their dollar value?

I swear, gamers are their own worst enemy at times. We complain about not getting enough new genuine experiences at mid-tier and AAA budgets, but complain about games that are looking to do those things because they don't have a big brand name attached to them or don't promise 50+ hours of gameplay (a lot of that being useless filler to eat away time through trinket trophy/achievement collecting). No wonder Sony basically shut down Japan Studio; they could put out something genuinely amazing but the vast majority of gamers probably wouldn't support it because it doesn't have the simple bullet points they come to associate with "full-priced experiences".

When are some gamers gonna mature, I swear...

Exactly this, people always complain about Activision turning out the same shit every year but each year they’re reporting bigger margins.

Something interesting like Returnal comes around and all of a sudden this is “TOO MUCH MONEY, WHERE ARE THE PRETTY GRAPHICS?”

Then three years down the line, you’re going to see posts about the “hidden gem” returnal and how much of a shame it is that Housemarque shutdown.

Japan Studios just had the same exact thing happen to them.
 

Gods&Monsters

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Well about that.

Yeah people here are using the 70$ for console wars (even Bryank!) but Sony were just following the trend set by Activision and T2 with their next-gen versions and the rest will follow when they actually release next-gen games (MS).

Sony is pretty much getting all the blame for the price hike but I don't get it? Maybe because they were the first to release actual high-profile next-gen games and the competition is just selling ports?

People just can't let go, even in this thread and EVERY Sony thread. Damn!
 

Varteras

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FF7 and GTA can sell fine at $70. This game? :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Remember when games were $50? The jump to $60 didn't really change anything despite the number of people who acted like they would never spend that much on games. It'll be the same here. Because if people want to play a game NOW they'll pay the cost of admission and it being $10 more than it would have been a generation ago won't change that. The only question is how many people want to play this game as soon as possible and how many will wait for a price drop, PS+ freebie, or PS Now entry? Every game with a decently high budget will be $70 soon enough and I can assure you that games with less to offer than Returnal will start at that price tag. And, as always, the industry will flourish, millions of copies of games will be sold, and profits will jump. Then another two or three generations from now games will be $80 and we'll once again act like no one will pay that but for certain games and no lesson will be learned.
 

KungFucius

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I want to get a PS5 but I’m not paying these prices for games.

Get the disc version and hope enough people buy the games and sell them used. Or buy them new and sell them to recoup some of the cost. 70 is kind of pricey for a game you will play once and never touch again.
 
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I'm not terribly familiar with GnG's gameplay; could you give a quick elaboration of this lineage?

It's a 2D action-platforming hack 'n slash, basically. Fast-paced, some score incentive, medieval themes etc. a lot like DMC just more cartoony.

There's people showing off the new Switch game if you're interested in seeing it in action. I'm not saying GnG is a literal precursor to DmC of course, just that the earlier design DNA seen in games like it have helped shape games like Devil May Cry (and countless others) today.

That design DNA originates primarily from arcade games and earlier microcomputer titles. Home consoles at one point were mainly just port machines for arcade and microcomputer titles anyway.
 
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VysePSU

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Didn’t we just have a similar thread about Destruction All Stars and they cut the price of that awfully fucking fast.

These games aren’t worth the asking price and people that pay it, deserve to be mocked later for it.
Why is it okay to mock PlayStation consumers who pay full price for their games?
 

The Hamburglar

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Remember when games were $50? The jump to $60 didn't really change anything despite the number of people who acted like they would never spend that much on games. It'll be the same here. Because if people want to play a game NOW they'll pay the cost of admission and it being $10 more than it would have been a generation ago won't change that. The only question is how many people want to play this game as soon as possible and how many will wait for a price drop, PS+ freebie, or PS Now entry? Every game with a decently high budget will be $70 soon enough and I can assure you that games with less to offer than Returnal will start at that price tag. And, as always, the industry will flourish, millions of copies of games will be sold, and profits will jump. Then another two or three generations from now games will be $80 and we'll once again act like no one will pay that but for certain games and no lesson will be learned.
If this game was equivalent to 70 US dollars then sure... £70 is like 96 dollars. Fuck that.

Resident evil 8 is £55 on the store . No reason for first party to be so high.
 

FunkMiller

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If this game was equivalent to 70 US dollars then sure... £70 is like 96 dollars. Fuck that.

Resident evil 8 is £55 on the store . No reason for first party to be so high.

£70 is way too high in an economy that’s suffered greatly through Covid, and has been stagnating in real terms for years. Returnal is going to pay the price for Sony’s greed in the UK.
 

The_Mike

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£70 is way too high in an economy that’s suffered greatly through Covid, and has been stagnating in real terms for years. Returnal is going to pay the price for Sony’s greed in the UK.
The problem is, if people buys it at this price it shows Sony that is just about right and not too high.

If something is too high, then people don't buy it. People buying shows it's OK, and many people are still buying these games.
Of course not, because it would be free on Game Pass day1.
Yeah let's pretend no one buys games anymore.

I know you are referring to that people say game pass is a good deal, but you can say its a good deal and not have it.

Back when I played on my xbox I didn't sign up for it only because I already had 99 percent of the games there.

I probably still wouldn't if I used my xbox, because I prefer buying my games. But you can't deny that for someone who's invested little in the system its a damn good value.
 
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bender

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I don't see a problem with questioning the price point. Let's look at Housemarque's output:

-Resogun: $14.99 (also launched as part of the Instant Games Collection, has DLC Expansions and cosmetics)
-Alienation: $19.99 (has a $9.99 Season Pass)
-Matterfall: $19.99
-Nex Machina; $19.99

Beyond the perspective switch, Returnal doesn't look all that different mechanically from a lot of their other titles. It seems like they've upped their production value game a notch or two but I'm not sure that justifies going from ~$20.00 games to a $70.00 game.