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How the Retron 5 made an honest man out of me.

You didn't actually answer my question here. What's the difference from a morality standpoint between playing a Rom and hitting up Ebay or a Yardsale? (spoiler: if you aren't supporting the creators in any way, there actually isn't one. The only real difference is that you prefer a physical copy of the game and probably some false sense of actually being supportive in some weird way)

No, the only real difference is that one is legal and the other not. Is it immoral to break a law? Maybe, if it is a bad law. Are copyright and the right of first sale bad laws?
 

petran79

Banned
SNK did much worse things with the Neo Geo X

http://neosource.1emulation.com/forums/index.php?topic=2352.0

Haze:

yes, it's basically just a copy of the innards of a cheap chinese handheld complete with a copy of the various emulators that were ported to the platform and a frontend for running just the neogeo games via fba bolted on.

it's underpowered, and basically illegal, the only licensed thing is probably the NG roms themselves, people have reported there are even copies of the PS1 bios on there(!)

whatever version of FBA they're using is also apparently rather bastardized and suffers from numerous emulation glitches either because it's been built on an early version, or with a buggy compiler, or because somebody (who clearly doesn't understand emulation because they would have just done their own emulator) has tried to optimize it for the inadequate hardware.

Strangely enough about the only thing apparently not on there is MAME, but I guess FBA is the new MAME for these low-powered devices, so get used to it guys....

you get none of the benefits of running on original hardware and all the drawbacks of an emulator hacked to run on poor specs along with the usual lack of quality control / poor decision making you get with cheap chinese knock-off products (reports that it scales 224 -> 240 etc.)

much like Apple stuff you're paying for the name / brand here, certainly not the actual product.

I'm sure somebody could load it with a better NeoGeo emulator than the one they ship, but it's not really even that much of an interesting hobby machine due to the poor specs.
....................................................................................................................................
yeah, it's just a port of all the dingoo stuff, as people have said there are a bunch of other emulators just sitting on it. people are using the same tools to convert alt rom images for it to run because it uses the same formats that version used.

amazing that this can be passed off as an official product really, but at the same time entirely unsurprising.

 

Mihos

Gold Member
When a game is nearly two decades old and has no official support or rerelease?

No I do not.

After a set period of time, I feel absolutely no "guilt" associated with this sort of illegal playing of games. I'd love to have paid Squaresoft money for the game back in the day. I'd love to pay them for a copy now.

But legally, the only way I can buy a copy is to hunt down an eBay seller and buy it that way, rip it to my computer, and then apply the English translation patch. Doing so, functionally, impacts Square-Enix's profits no more or less than just downloading a ROM and applying the patch.

So why should I give a damn about what is technically legal, here? The only people who can profit are collectors, who're different from enthusiasts in that they care about the experience of playing the game itself versus the actual owning of a physical copy (for which actual, legal re-releases of older titles only negligibly effects the market price of original copies, so don't try to play the hurt collector here).

There is no moral justification for claiming that emulation of decades-old titles which aren't modernly available is wrong. There is a legal one, sure, but no moral justification, and I'd rate the legal ramifications somewhere around how seriously I'd rate god-damned jaywalking in the pantheon of criminal activity you can perform.Illegal does not mean "OMG, you should never do it and how dare you do it no matter the circumstances!"

It's silly to pretend otherwise.

Man, you are going to be in for a long day if that is going to be your defense. The 'it's not for sale, so I should be able to steal it' defense got destroyed the very first day during the music download crackdowns.
 
You didn't actually answer my question here. What's the difference from a morality standpoint between playing a Rom and hitting up Ebay or a Yardsale? (spoiler: if you aren't supporting the creators in any way, there actually isn't one. The only real difference is that you prefer a physical copy of the game and probably some false sense of actually being supportive in some weird way)

That's just an excuse for breaking the law. What would you think if I pirated Batman: Arkham Knight? I mean, if I buy it used I'm "not supporting the creators in any way", right? So that makes it perfectly fine to never buy a game again, right, just pirate everything?

Here's the thing: if you buy every old game you want on a cartridge, that takes time to track down the game, costs money, and there are limited copies of each, which drives up the price. You'll never get every game you could possibly want unless you are a real collector. If you pirate old games, however, you'll probably download every game you can think of, if not complete ROM sets, all at once, even games you would never thought of buying. So now Konami releases "The Ultimate Castlevania pack, every Castlevania game ever made". Will you purchase it? not likely, because you just played a couple of those games last week, including a couple of the rarer ones like Rondo of Blood, and you can already play the rest for free. So now you just hurt the developers directly by your piracy.

Nintendo's Virtual Console doesn't make much money, which is one of the reasons its releases are slow and it doesn't get some of the games people really want. And chances are a large part of the reason it doesn't make much money is because of rampant piracy.
 
Oh... wow. I'm guessing you don't know a lot about this console.

Let's just say you're in for quite a surprise...



Meh, we offered our advice. What more can we do.
I asked a simple question. Which controllers are people using. I don't see what's so hard about that. Yes I don't know much about the console which is why I'm asking.

I wanted a way to play my snes and megadrive carts on my HD TV. This allows me to do this. I collect consoles so would prefer not to open the boxes when possible, this also allows me to do that.
 
I asked a simple question. Which controllers are people using. I don't see what's so hard about that. Yes I don't know much about the console which is why I'm asking.

I wanted a way to play my snes and megadrive carts on my HD TV. This allows me to do this. I collect consoles so would prefer not to open the boxes when possible, this also allows me to do that.

Personally, I'm using Nes controllers for the Nes games and Snes for everything else. Playing Genesis and GBA games with the Snes controller has been a real treat for the last year.

Also, off topic, I'm shocked and confused that my thread from a year ago got necro-bumped to the first page. I saw it and was like, "Wait, I haven't created a thread recently. What is this sorcery?!?"
 

petran79

Banned
Nintendo's Virtual Console doesn't make much money, which is one of the reasons its releases are slow and it doesn't get some of the games people really want. And chances are a large part of the reason it doesn't make much money is because of rampant piracy.

Unfortunately it took Nintendo way too long to catch up with emulators
Should have started since the Gamecube really
 

octopiggy

Member
I asked a simple question. Which controllers are people using. I don't see what's so hard about that. Yes I don't know much about the console which is why I'm asking.

I wanted a way to play my snes and megadrive carts on my HD TV. This allows me to do this. I collect consoles so would prefer not to open the boxes when possible, this also allows me to do that.

The wireless controller that comes with the console is pretty bad. The d-pad (if you can call it that) is particularly bad - a weird clicky kind of thumbstick. It feels cheap and sometimes double registers button presses. You really want to use original controllers (you can even use controllers from other console on all games).

The console itself on the other hand, is great and I love mine. Convenient, cheap and looks great on an HD tv. Hope you enjoy it.
 
Man, you are going to be in for a long day if that is going to be your defense. The 'it's not for sale, so I should be able to steal it' defense got destroyed the very first day during the music download crackdowns.

Maybe in your mind, doesn't really change anything practically for the individuals who disagree. The premise that copying is stealing (1:0::1:1 vs 1:0::0:1) has an already shaky basis. But when that item isn't otherwise available in any official fashion, sorry fuck that. I pay for all my music, all my movies. When the internet's providing a superior experience or the right's holder isn't providing any alternative, fuck that. Also, I don't care about the law, I care about my personal moral compass and I don't have any reason to believe it's built around morality when any idiot can point out a litany of areas where it clearly isn't.

Having said that, this news makes the Retron a little more appealing. The HD output is a big deal to me but offering more of the flexibility of ROMs is a big selling point.
 
Personally, I'm using Nes controllers for the Nes games and Snes for everything else. Playing Genesis and GBA games with the Snes controller has been a real treat for the last year.

Also, off topic, I'm shocked and confused that my thread from a year ago got necro-bumped to the first page. I saw it and was like, "Wait, I haven't created a thread recently. What is this sorcery?!?"

The wireless controller that comes with the console is pretty bad. The d-pad (if you can call it that) is particularly bad - a weird clicky kind of thumbstick. It feels cheap and sometimes double registers button presses. You really want to use original controllers (you can even use controllers from other console on all games).

The console itself on the other hand, is great and I love mine. Convenient, cheap and looks great on an HD tv. Hope you enjoy it.
Thanks for these responses. I have 3 button and 6 button genesis as well as snes. I thought the thumbstick might be good like the neo geo kidney pad but I guess it's not.

Can't wait for mine. I wish I still had my old carts from childhood but they're gone now :/
 
That's just an excuse for breaking the law. What would you think if I pirated Batman: Arkham Knight? I mean, if I buy it used I'm "not supporting the creators in any way", right? So that makes it perfectly fine to never buy a game again, right, just pirate everything?

First off, I don't care, do whatever you want. Secondly, yes, it means the exact same thing to the publishers, the developers. They're not seeing anything from your ebay or half.com purchases. You could wait for a legit price drop, which could be an absolutely ridiculous wait, especially on consoles but going used or piracy aren't your only options. But again, do whatever the hell you want.

Also, this "one is breaking the law, one is not" is pretty much a non answer, no substance whatsoever in regards to the question i'm asking here. Also, stop talking to me as if I pirate video games, I don't, and the last time I played a Rom was Mother 3 in like 2008 when it was translated. I don't regret that one bit.
 

Wereroku

Member
Thanks for these responses. I have 3 button and 6 button genesis as well as snes. I thought the thumbstick might be good like the neo geo kidney pad but I guess it's not.

Can't wait for mine. I wish I still had my old carts from childhood but they're gone now :/

Honestly the clicky thumbstick is ok the biggest problem is the rest of the controller is very poorly made. The button don't register well and the shape is pretty uncomfortable.
 
There are several GPL models, like AGPL, that explicitly prohibits commercial use. Retroarch actually details the violations and points out which ones were not licensed for any commercial use:

http://www.libretro.com/index.php/retroarch-license-violations/

As I pointed out in another Retron thread, you are ill-informed about the GPL. There are no "GPL models that explicitly prohibit commercial use". The AGPL certainly doesn't do that. It came into existence as a way to enforce copyleft for free software as a service (web applications, DBMS etc), where the actual executable isn't necessarily distributed to the end user. As such, it addresses a possible "loophole" in the GPL and not much more.

The GPL (and AGPL as a result) was explicitly designed to disallow further restrictions, including non-commercial clauses (as explicitly mentioned in the FSF's FAQ section).
 
I asked a simple question. Which controllers are people using. I don't see what's so hard about that. Yes I don't know much about the console which is why I'm asking.

I don't see what's so hard about listening to the advice that's given. Your question about the controller is answered within the first 3 minutes of my video.

I'll go ahead and spoil the surprise for you. The Retron5 is a buggy, low quality piece of crap. The plastics they used are terrible, it freezes, it has noticeable lag, and it glitches out and resets. I recorded all of those problems and they aren't even all of the issues people report. If you don't want to listen to me, go check out reviews on Amazon.

Enjoy your Retron 5 user experience! Let's all pray you don't get one that's dead on arrival because that's been a reported problem as well.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
You didn't actually answer my question here. What's the difference from a morality standpoint between playing a Rom and hitting up Ebay or a Yardsale? (spoiler: if you aren't supporting the creators in any way, there actually isn't one. The only real difference is that you prefer a physical copy of the game and probably some false sense of actually being supportive in some weird way)

HORRIBLE analogy. "Well I wasn't going to buy Call of Duty anyway, so it's not like it matters if I pirate it."

I strongly recommend looking up copyright law and gaining some friggin knowledge.. reimbursing creators has nothing do with it it at its basis. it literally stands for "right to copy" and is applied regardless of money exchanged.
 

androvsky

Member
As I pointed out in another Retron thread, you are ill-informed about the GPL. There are no "GPL models that explicitly prohibit commercial use". The AGPL certainly doesn't do that. It came into existence as a way to enforce copyleft for free software as a service (web applications, DBMS etc), where the actual executable isn't necessarily distributed to the end user. As such, it addresses a possible "loophole" in the GPL and not much more.

The GPL (and AGPL as a result) was explicitly designed to disallow further restrictions, including non-commercial clauses (as explicitly mentioned in the FSF's FAQ section).

You're responding to an old post, but it's very interesting. GPLv3 (which versions of AGPL is apparently based on) certainly allows commercial use last I checked, but there's a problem in that the end user has to be able to modify it on the hardware they have (the "anti Tivoisation" clause, which I think is a big part of why people think it's an anti-commercial license). Hyperkin's encryption of the Retron's filesystem completely prevents that. The 'A' part of the AGPL really doesn't apply in this case, as the software is being distributed (as opposed to being a web service).

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#Tivoization
Some devices utilize free software that can be upgraded, but are designed so that users are not allowed to modify that software. There are lots of different ways to do this; for example, sometimes the hardware checksums the software that is installed, and shuts down if it doesn't match an expected signature. The manufacturers comply with GPLv2 by giving you the source code, but you still don't have the freedom to modify the software you're using. We call this practice tivoization.

When people distribute User Products that include software under GPLv3, section 6 requires that they provide you with information necessary to modify that software. User Products is a term specially defined in the license; examples of User Products include portable music players, digital video recorders, and home security systems.

To me it looks Hyperkin could fix a lot of their compliance issues by dropping the encryption, which would also let the community help fix some of the problems as well as add new features. Which is the whole point of GPLv3.
 
I'm not sure to what extent it makes a difference to pirate a 20 year old SNES game or to buy a second hand cart, other than to stroke your moral ego. It's not like any developer is going to see a cent of your money either way.

I say this even though I own Japanese carts of Seiken Densetsu 3, Front Mission, Final Fantasy V and so on, which I actually bought back in the day, but I keep them for collecting's sake.
 
Use original hardware and some sort of upscaler, like a framemeister.

So have 5 boxes with an upscaler under my TV when I can just have one (still legally sold) device?

Not likely.

Really, what's the better alternative product considering convenience, space, and everything else? I want to play old games but not like some kind of retro enthusiast.
 
Okay, what's the best alternative product then? I want to play a number of old carts on a system that outputs in HD.

The RetroPi will get a Kickstarter and it's arguably what the Retron 5 should have been from the beginning. I haven't heard them confirm this, but in theory with this you should be able to play your carts on the emulator of your choice so you'll have a lot more options and systems to choose from than the Retron 5. Even N64 and 32X!




As I pointed out in another Retron thread, you are ill-informed about the GPL. There are no "GPL models that explicitly prohibit commercial use". The AGPL certainly doesn't do that. It came into existence as a way to enforce copyleft for free software as a service (web applications, DBMS etc), where the actual executable isn't necessarily distributed to the end user. As such, it addresses a possible "loophole" in the GPL and not much more.

The GPL (and AGPL as a result) was explicitly designed to disallow further restrictions, including non-commercial clauses (as explicitly mentioned in the FSF's FAQ section).

You're swimming up the creek if you think a court is going to ignore or nullify a freely available software license because some private organization (that's not even privy to the agreement) is trying to dictate how you can or cannot modify it. On the other hand I can guarantee you that Microsoft and Apple have plenty of case law out there where they have successfully argued time and time again that you better follow a software license to the T.

A decision that effectively states that a software license should not be taken at face value and followed to the letter would be an extreme legal upset. It's not going to happen and big companies are more than willing to go to court to make sure it doesn't.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
I'm not sure to what extent it makes a difference to pirate a 20 year old SNES game or to buy a second hand cart, other than to stroke your moral ego. It's not like any developer is going to see a cent of your money either way.
read the posts on copyright law. Copyright, the actual protections, have nothing inherently to do with financial compensation. The creators of of intellectual properties have every right to have those properties protected from ALL manner of copying.. whether plagiarism, financial loss, misappropriation, etc. You can't pick and choose which points of copyright law apply based on how available something is to buy or how "badly you want to play it". Copyright is copyright.

It is certainly within the creators' rights to say "yeah, the game is no longer available for sale. go ahead and download it for free".. but that is THEIR right to say so, and without them doing that, you have zero right to download it.

Things become further complicated especially in console games, where there is almost always licensed content from multiple parties in there, usually at minimum the platform manufacturer.

So no, it's not to stroke ego. It's to obey the law. End of story. Unless you can show that the games you are talking about have fallen out of copyright or have been released to the public domain by the original creator(s).
 
Also, this "one is breaking the law, one is not" is pretty much a non answer, no substance whatsoever in regards to the question i'm asking here.

You asked what the morality difference was - that difference is entirely down to the rights given to the creators and owners in law. The difference between buying a cart and downloading a ROM is that the cart is a physical item that no longer belongs to the original creator, and is for the current owner to do with as they please.
The original creator still has full rights over their creation though - by downloading a ROM you ignore these rights. They may not want you to do this. It might make them sad. It may deprive them of a livelihood in trying to exploit these rights in future. This, I think can be argued, is immoral.
 
So have 5 boxes with an upscaler under my TV when I can just have one (still legally sold) device?

Not likely.

Really, what's the better alternative product considering convenience, space, and everything else? I want to play old games but not like some kind of retro enthusiast.
Yep its pretty convenient for me! If I want to plug in my ntsc snes I'd also have to use a step down and rca. Fuck that. This is one box, hdmi and I can play all my genesis and snes carts on it. Sounds fine to me.

I have only one crt as well and that is currently TATE'D for my supergun so this solution works well for me.
 
HORRIBLE analogy. "Well I wasn't going to buy Call of Duty anyway, so it's not like it matters if I pirate it."

I strongly recommend looking up copyright law and gaining some friggin knowledge.. reimbursing creators has nothing do with it it at its basis. it literally stands for "right to copy" and is applied regardless of money exchanged.

Tell me the difference from a morality standpoint(SNES cart off Ebay vs a Rom), and not a regurgitation of copyright laws. There's no substance there.
 

-TK-

Member
I have one and it's super awesome. It had some problems, but after few patches it has been working perfectly. I don't even use my real snes anymore, because it works with real controllers too.

No region locking shit, games look great even on big plasma tv, possible to pause anywhere and continue later, backup saves etc.
 
You asked what the morality difference was - that difference is entirely down to the rights given to the creators and owners in law. The difference between buying a cart and downloading a ROM is that the cart is a physical item that no longer belongs to the original creator, and is for the current owner to do with as they please.
The original creator still has full rights over their creation though - by downloading a ROM you ignore these rights. They may not want you to do this. It might make them sad. It may deprive them of a livelihood in trying to exploit these rights in future. This, I think can be argued, is immoral.

Yes, the cart is a physical item that is being sold to someone that isn't benefiting the creator in the slightest. You think there's actually a difference here, eh? Interesting.

We do know just how much publishers/developers love used game sales though, that don't benefit them in the slightest, totally onboard with that, probably doesn't make them sad in the slightest.
 

Platy

Member
I think it's worth pointing out that games for these old systems don't generally make the original developer money anymore, so in most cases it really doesn't matter if you pirate a ROM or purchase an original cart second-hand. That money isn't going to the developer, it's only going to the private owner of the cart you just bought. You aren't taking money away from a developer or publisher by pirating a ROM of, say, Adventure Island.

Adventure Island, available on Wii U virtual console ;D

Edit: ops Jurassic post I guess... So it is available now =P
 
Yes, the cart is a physical item that is being sold to someone that isn't benefiting the creator in the slightest. You think there's actually a difference here, eh? Interesting.

We do know just how much publishers/developers love used game sales though, that don't benefit them in the slightest, totally onboard with that, probably doesn't make them sad in the slightest.

Yes, but they sold the rights to re-sell their physical game as part of the initial transaction. I bet it does make them sad, but that's where their rights butt into OUR rights as customers.

Spin it around - imagine someone wrote a piece of GPL software (an emulator perhaps?) and released it for free because they wanted the world to benefit, and work together to improve it. Then some nefarious company modify it and sell it closed source for their own purposes. Using your argument, they say "Well, you wouldn't see any money from these deals anyway, what's the moral problem?"

The point is - it's not about the money. It's about the right of the creator to have control of their creation.
 
Yes, but they sold the rights to re-sell their physical game as part of the initial transaction. I bet it does make them sad, but that's where their rights butt into OUR rights as customers.

Oh it does, and from a morality standpoint, they see both things as one in the same, which is absolutely nothing to their benefit. There's just no actual feel good difference here, one is not more moral than the other, it's just two sides of the same coin. (and of course money plays a huge part on this topic in the video games industry, ridiculous to say otherwise).

Whatever though, round and round we go, I'm done with this.
 
The RetroPi will get a Kickstarter and it's arguably what the Retron 5 should have been from the beginning. I haven't heard them confirm this, but in theory with this you should be able to play your carts on the emulator of your choice so you'll have a lot more options and systems to choose from than the Retron 5. Even N64 and 32X!

Whoa... thanks for the response. Will definitely keep my eye on that one.
 

beril

Member
Best of all, I can purchase Famicom and Super Famicom games that we DID receive here for super cheap, and be able to patch them to play as the English versions.

Technically that's still not legal. If you're using the official translations from the US/EU release, you're using copyrighted data that's not part of the product you paid for
 
I'm not sure to what extent it makes a difference to pirate a 20 year old SNES game or to buy a second hand cart, other than to stroke your moral ego. It's not like any developer is going to see a cent of your money either way.

I say this even though I own Japanese carts of Seiken Densetsu 3, Front Mission, Final Fantasy V and so on, which I actually bought back in the day, but I keep them for collecting's sake.

Second hand sales are important economically and for consumer rights. Just because that benefit doesn't always work its way back to content creators doesn't mean it has zero value.
 
read the posts on copyright law.[...]

I'm fully aware of the legal ramifications, but I question the sense of obeying the law for the sake of obeying the law when 1) nobody is going to enforce it (so there are no consequences for the one breaking it) and 2) nobody is going to benefit from it. Mindlessly following every law without ever pondering their meaning or spirit does not seem like a healthy moral mindset to me.

Second hand sales are important economically and for consumer rights. Just because that benefit doesn't always work its way back to content creators doesn't mean it has zero value.

Again, that's applicable for products still in production or sale. For clarification purposes, when I say both pirating and buying hold the same moral ground in this case, I'm not making a negative (or positive) moral judgement on any of them: I'm saying that in this case it literally has zero impact on developers either way.

There is one counterpoint to my argument however; games that are rereleased/ported (i.e. playing the pirated SNES version rather than, say, the GBA/DS port). For games that have never been released outside Japan the chance seems slim, but it is not unheard of (Front Mission comes to mind). In this case if you played the SNES ROM you would be morally compelled to buy the rerelease.
 
I think some of the users here condemning ROMs don't understand that those supporting them are arguing if it's ethical, not if it's legal.
 

petran79

Banned
Things become further complicated especially in console games, where there is almost always licensed content from multiple parties in there, usually at minimum the platform manufacturer.

What I find funny is that consoles are so secretive regarding the anti-circumvention and encryption software they use. Even in the newer consoles they reveal nothing.I wonder whether the protection software for the older consoles is still copyrighted if it is not even mentioned.

You do not see this in computer games, where every major game company boasts about their protection software (Tages, Securom, Steamguard etc)

So ironically while they are adamant about copyright law etc, they do not give credit at all to the people and companies who make the protection possible.
 
Oh it does, and from a morality standpoint, they see both things as one in the same, which is absolutely nothing to their benefit. There's just no actual feel good difference here, one is not more moral than the other, it's just two sides of the same coin. (and of course money plays a huge part on this topic in the video games industry, ridiculous to say otherwise).

Whatever though, round and round we go, I'm done with this.

Fair enough. But I think you should try to divest yourself of the notion that morality is measured in money.
If your statement had been "financially there is no difference" then it would be hard to argue. But by pulling morality, you open quite a can of worms - not least because people measure morals by many different yardsticks.
 
That's just an excuse for breaking the law. What would you think if I pirated Batman: Arkham Knight? I mean, if I buy it used I'm "not supporting the creators in any way", right? So that makes it perfectly fine to never buy a game again, right, just pirate everything?
Well my thought would be if it is about supporting the publishers then Arkham Knight is very easy to find a new copy of and will be for a long time thanks to digital.

You can't use that analogy when talking about games made 20 years ago, have zero chance of re-release.

Unfortunately it took Nintendo way too long to catch up with emulators
Should have started since the Gamecube really
Funny you should say that. All of the following happened during the Gamecube:
-Animal Crossing had a NES emulator (really ironic this is one of the biggest compilations of Nintendo games). I think the N64 version had it too.
-Metroid Prime had playable NES Metroid
-The Nintendo e-reader let you load NES ROMs through scanning something like 6 cards (a total of 11 times I think, these cards have more storage than amiibo but are read-only)
-Zelda bonus discs had N64 emulation (and NES emulation in the collector's edition)
-I assume Super Punch-Out exclusive to the Gamecube version of Fight Night Round 2 (and Little Mac) was SNES emulation (game was released longe after Zelda CE).
-The NES Classics series on GBA was you guessed it, emulation.
-There might have been plans for an N64 player attachment (a Nintendo of Europe survey mentioned such a device but it is Nintendo of Europe so they had like zero credibility back then)

I'm fully aware of the legal ramifications, but I question the sense of obeying the law for the sake of obeying the law when 1) nobody is going to enforce it (so there are no consequences for the one breaking it) and 2) nobody is going to benefit from it. Mindlessly following every law without ever pondering their meaning or spirit does not seem like a healthy moral mindset to me.
But resellers benefit from it. However the retro market is bloody easy to manipulate as well (in that video such a person confesses to doing an experiment where to made a GB game go from $3 to $25 in about a year).
 
You're swimming up the creek if you think a court is going to ignore or nullify a freely available software license because some private organization (that's not even privy to the agreement) is trying to dictate how you can or cannot modify it. On the other hand I can guarantee you that Microsoft and Apple have plenty of case law out there where they have successfully argued time and time again that you better follow a software license to the T.

A decision that effectively states that a software license should not be taken at face value and followed to the letter would be an extreme legal upset. It's not going to happen and big companies are more than willing to go to court to make sure it doesn't.

I'm coming at this from the angle of what the GPL is and what it isn't - not what holds up in court and what doesn't (I'm not a lawyer). The FSF is very clear on what the GPL is and what free software is. There's nothing stopping you from deriving your own license from the terms of the GPL, but you are required to abide by the terms provided by the FSF when doing so (the GPL itself is copyrighted work). The GPLv3 preamble clearly states:

Copyright (C) 2007 Free Software Foundation, Inc. <http://fsf.org/>
Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies
of this license document, but changing it is not allowed.

The FAQ elaborates on what you may and may not do. You may not reference the GPL and GNU by name in a derived license. In other words, your license is not GPL.

Furthermore, restricting users' freedoms (e.g. with a non-commercial clause) goes against the very definition of free software. Hyperkin may similarly be restricting these freedoms in other ways, as suggested by androvsky here and by Krejlooc in the other thread (in that they fail to provide source).
 

beril

Member
I got to play a bit on a retron 5 yesterday and the input lag was just terrible. This was on a Sony TV with some of the lowest lag on the market, and we compared it to real hardware on the same TV and the difference was like night and day. Just a shitty, shady and ugly system all around.
 

androvsky

Member
I got to play a bit on a retron 5 yesterday and the input lag was just terrible. This was on a Sony TV with some of the lowest lag on the market, and we compared it to real hardware on the same TV and the difference was like night and day. Just a shitty, shady and ugly system all around.
Did you use the wireless controller or a wired one? I'm curious if there a noticeable difference.
 
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