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How will they make an Xbox Series X PRO with the S?
- Thread starter Bernoulli
- Start date
vaibhavpisal
Member
They don't believe in generations is what they said.
Maybe there is a hint in that.
Maybe there is a hint in that.
Stare-Bear
Banned
With sales lagging behind the PS5 that much, it would be a big ask of Microsoft to developers to make 4 different versions of a game…
MasterCornholio
Member
Series S Pro and Series X Pro?
That sounds like a logistical nightmare.
That sounds like a logistical nightmare.
Bernoulli
M2 slut
they could fix that just by dropping the price on both
S at 199 or 150
X at 399 or 350
Microsoft is a trillion $ company they can afford it
jasondefaoite
Member
X Pro and S amateur.
But I don't see it happening. S, X and X Pro makes more sense.
But I don't see it happening. S, X and X Pro makes more sense.
Daneel Elijah
Member
The question is more how can they not make a Series X pro version? If Sony does a PS5 Pro Xbox will have to follow, or loose some of that Hardcore/super enthousiast/whale money.
The S pro already exist. It is the X. So no Series S pro in my opinion. It would be super weird.
The S pro already exist. It is the X. So no Series S pro in my opinion. It would be super weird.
Better to do that than be even more behind in consoles version, with PS5 and PS5 Pro taking the most of the work, and a Switch 2 being potentially there too. If there is a PS5 Pro of course.
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DirtyBast8rd
Member
More sense to make the X digital only and replace the S and chance the name to S pro and bring a new X Pro to the market. And some EXCLUSIVE Xbox only games (you listing Philly?).
Tsaki
Member
Xbox already has 2 SKUs and there are 0 rumours about a new model existing, in contrary to Playstation. Hell there are not even credible rumours about a Series X cost reduction model, while PS5 had 2 already and is about to get another major one this September.
But if they were to do it, then the simple answer is they make a third SKU and devs have to support 3 Xbox consoles. 480p Series S games incoming then.
But if they were to do it, then the simple answer is they make a third SKU and devs have to support 3 Xbox consoles. 480p Series S games incoming then.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Even if they stopped selling the Series S, they're bound to support it. Best case you lose significant market share due to higher end games not being supported on Series S, worst case scenario you leave yourself open to a class action lawsuit. Not sure if they've ever actually guaranteed compatibility between the systems in marketing or PR, but it's certainly implied.
To add an additional console to the mix is going to push the limit of both ends. The best you'll ever get assuming compatibility is a Series S enhanced game on a Series Z or whatever they end up calling it.
It'll be a tall ask for their studios to support 3 consoles when they aren't really at the talent level to support one in the first place.
Edit: like others have said, there is no logistical reason to make an S Pro.
To add an additional console to the mix is going to push the limit of both ends. The best you'll ever get assuming compatibility is a Series S enhanced game on a Series Z or whatever they end up calling it.
It'll be a tall ask for their studios to support 3 consoles when they aren't really at the talent level to support one in the first place.
Edit: like others have said, there is no logistical reason to make an S Pro.
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Dick Jones
Gold Member
I dont know how this isn't the first reply
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I mean I guess you could say that about almost anything...
Graphical compromises entail quite a large spectrum. What. you mostly risk is 3rd party developers/publishers deciding that they'll launch first on PS5 and then optimize across the Xbox Series units at a later date. That's a nail in the coffin.
Don't think you can get away with doing 480p games on the Series S given that it's supposed to be a 1440p machine. I know all the games aren't 1440p, but there's only so far you can push that until you get into "deceptive marketing"
Really it is a catch-22. There is a cost to everything. Supporting 3 consoles is going to make development which is already showing problems, significantly more problematic, but you're right, if the PS5 has a Pro version that is clearly the best way to play console games by almost double, regardless of the price, Microsoft will be in a lot of trouble not following suit.
Honestly, I think this generation is entirely lost for them, but that also means that they've lost the next generation already too. They basically need to do best efforts at this point so as to not alienate core consumers if they have any plans to launch new hardware.
Kataploom
Gold Member
They don't need a Series S Pro, they just need a console more powerful than X, the S doesn't need to change... Assuming there's ps5 pro btw.
That's where I see how Microsoft trapped themselves, if they're having difficulties with third party devs trying to optimize for Xbox due to low priority based on players base and the aggregated second SKU, a third one may complicate things a little more lol
Player base is main bottleneck though, it's mostly a business thing imo, so probably having one less or one more means nothing in the end
That's where I see how Microsoft trapped themselves, if they're having difficulties with third party devs trying to optimize for Xbox due to low priority based on players base and the aggregated second SKU, a third one may complicate things a little more lol
Player base is main bottleneck though, it's mostly a business thing imo, so probably having one less or one more means nothing in the end
Microsoft will probably end up going the Apple route. The series s will eventually be rotated out as technology ages. X becomes the new S, Pro becomes the headliner, etc. Such a strategy aligns with Microsoft's goal of Xbox as a platform instead of purely a console. Hardware becomes less important.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I think there is this misconception that Microsoft has bottomless pockets. Just because they have money doesn't mean they want to sink good money after bad.
There's a reason they gave up on the Windows Phone. If they had an effective market share in the mobile market, they would have been able to EASILY have their own mobile store generating money for them. They tried to POUR money into it, but at one point they had to call it.
We've yet to see it, but there will come a time when developers will just stop supporting the Xbox platform even without Sony paying them for exclusivity. That it is so easy for Sony to get exclusive deals really suggests we're nearing that time anyways.
GamePass reducing sales of B2P games is going to drive a stake into game development. It'll come to a point where either you are getting paid by Microsoft to put your game on GamePass or you're just not making Xbox games because it isn't worth it. That's where we were with Dreamcast and Gamecube.
Microsoft will do their internal accounting as to how much they want to throw into Xbox if they don't think they'll get a return. The fewer people buying Xbox units, the fewer people will sign up for GamePass, this will lead to less investment in GamePass, and the existing investment will dry up (i.e. fewer games, smaller games) which will lead GamePass to shed subscribers, especially on PC. That's when Microsoft will say no mas.
The ROI won't be there for Microsoft to continue taking losses on Xbox hardware and they'll probably try to shift to PC/Cloud only and maybe put their titles out on PlayStation. Either that or they'll find a buyer for their games unit.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Not sure that I agree. I think that's exactly why we need to keep Pro units as a normal part of console gaming to maintain that leap in technology for those willing to pay for it.
Badlucktroll
Gold Member
Sell separate Disc drive for series s, then it will look something like this
VulcanRaven
Member
I wish they had made Series S more powerful. It should be able to run the Xbox One X versions of the last-gen games at least.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Don't think they will, they haven't even made/sold enough Series X nor have they managed to effectively reduce its cost since it has no revision?
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Just make an extra pro step up, simples.
Let Sony do theirs and launch a year or so later with a significant step up over the ps5 pro and I'll be there day one.
Let Sony do theirs and launch a year or so later with a significant step up over the ps5 pro and I'll be there day one.
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Tsaki
Member
Current gen only Star Wars in performance mode can drop as low as 1152x648 on PS5 and Series X. Granted Series S doesn't have "60" fps mode and RT, but that already misses Microsoft's goals of "All games between S and X are just resolution and graphics pair backs". If it had both of those, then that 480p starts to be a high bar to achieve. Thinking about it, with Jedi Survivor, the Series S has RT transistors just sitting there doing nothing. Talk about waste of silicon in this case.
Dick Jones
Gold Member
I hope the next gen console is called the Xbox 7 for no fucking reason. By xbox 8 no one cares
DeltaPolarBear
Member
The greatest lie that gamers tell themselves, is that their puny $1000 dollars is enough to fund the creation of an entire new SKU production line in the factory.
No, you are NOT prepared to pay for it. The increased hardware costs of a stronger hardware means the machine wouldn't make much more money, if it made ANY money at all. That hardware purchase price is less than worthless when compared to the costs of production, shipping, marketing, and software compatibility.
You buying a Pro doesn't mean you spent more money, because you end up buying the same games anyway. And the games is where the profits are. I would hazzard a guess that if the hardware cost has to fund its production, a Series X Pro would have to be $2000-$3000 USD. As in with a LOT of profit rather than none.
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Edgelord79
Gold Member
^ This. All about ROI and calculated risk. If what Phil Spencer is saying is true, then this won’t make much sense this generation.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
That line of thinking is what SEGA once thought too. Just one more mistake amongst many that SEGA ended up making.
FunkMiller
Member
I'd imagine the gulf in power between the S and any potential X Pro would mean they couldn't do an X Pro, if they wanted to keep putting the same games out on the S - which is the strategy they have. Or, they do put out an X Pro, but the games on it aren't cutting edge, and that would render the console pointless anyway.
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CrustyBritches
Gold Member
They'd be better off going the route of a handheld Series S rather than a Series X Pro.
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I never mentioned a price, but go on.
There's obviously a price point where Sony and Microsoft think demand meets costs. That is up to them to decide. The PS4 Pro didn't release for 1000 dollars. They launched it for 400 dollars and either they were taking a deep cut on it with the expectation to make that back in software or they weren't taking a deep cut on it and it was worth it on the margins alone.
I bet Sony has a metric that tells them people who buy Pro units are more likely to
a) Spend more on games
b) Helps compete with PC
c) That these consumers are more likely to stick with Sony and be loyal consumers in the long run
Customer retention is far more profitable than trying to acquire new customers.
2K-3K based on what? That doesn't match up with history what so ever.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Pro has a reason to exist for the PS4, and it will serve the same purpose for PS5 ; as the ideal machine for Virtual Reality.
If you want to play flat games then the normal model will be fine. But VR benefits from more power, and Pro justifies itself that way.
Oh yes. I forgot doom and gloom
Xbox is out of console business™ since 2014.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
From what we now know, they never were IN the console business to being with.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I think there are a lot of ways that Sony can justify a PS5 Pro. The PS4 Pro should have included a 4K Blu-ray player, that was a missed opportunity on their part.
1. Enhanced VR
2. Backward compatibility, enhanced backward compatibility
3. Expanded Audio/Video features
4. Larger SSD
5. Improved RTX support
6. Future 8K30 support*
7. Quick Resume
8. DualSense Edge default controller
9. Improved VRR
10. Bluetooth headset support
11. CD Support
Thick Thighs Save Lives
NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
Having 4 different SKU for the least popular console platform is just beyond dumb, devs would literally riot lol.
Elog
Member
They obviously launch an Xbox E so they have the Xbox S, E and X models for great memes.
To be serious, if they do it it needs to be an upscaled X so they do not add even more memory config etc shenanigans. Not sure it makes sense for their business model though - a PC is basically the upgrade from XSX.
To be serious, if they do it it needs to be an upscaled X so they do not add even more memory config etc shenanigans. Not sure it makes sense for their business model though - a PC is basically the upgrade from XSX.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Yes. The problem of having an infinite warchest is that your revenue is also infinitely irrelevant.
sw0mp_d0nk3y
Member
I believe the idea is to keep releasing a Series X and a Series S. They will eventually upgrade both, but keep the same name. So likely the Series S will get the current X processor, and the new X will be an upgrade. Old Series S systems will no longer be required for developers to support. I imagine they will drop the disc drive entirely from both systems at some point, possibly even in the next upgrade. Probably happen around the time Elder Scrolls 6 comes out, so that doesn't have to run on the old Series S.
I guess that you know how much profit/how much in the loss Xbox is to make that claim right?
Also, I would not jump too high, because even with 6 million consoles sold and bangers left and right, SIE division made less than 300 millions in profits
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Daneel Elijah
Member
This would doom them. If the PS5 Pro is on 2024 it would means a 2025 X pro. 5 years after the 2020 launch. It would make the PS5 Pro the standard for enhanced games and make the Series X pro limited to a few studios as we would be close to the PS6/ next Xbox era. They need to be same date or sooner to have a chance to be relevant. The One X was the better console VS the PS4 Pro. But the Pro has 1 year alone in the market. And a clear plan. Why loose one year for a pointless tech superiority that will not lead to better games and make the next gen Xbox less attractive in retrospect? I would like it as a Xbox Series X Pro would be a great subventioned PC in a sense. But it would not be a good strategy.
Sony themselves said that the PS4 Pro was to stop the fact that some Playstation gamers were leaving the ecosystem to go PC mid-gen. The VR was just a nice bonus. But yes we are not making it profitable ourselves. Consoles are still sold at loss. But the business case is not that awful. At least for Playstation. No idea about Xbox.
6502
Member
If it were up to me, their next hardware would be a hdmi xcloud stick and gamepad for streaming and sell it for circa £60.When they need to drop the S, users can use it as a glorified xcloud stick.
MS have failed to commit enough resources to the current series x library, we have not seen it near its' potential. If anything they should just make slim versions and drop the price. It is good enough.
Go for the masses, don't fragment the market further to attract a small % of gamers who are interested but aren't already playing your software on higher spec PC anyway.
Pro consoles are an awful concept which create more problems than they solve.
MS have failed to commit enough resources to the current series x library, we have not seen it near its' potential. If anything they should just make slim versions and drop the price. It is good enough.
Go for the masses, don't fragment the market further to attract a small % of gamers who are interested but aren't already playing your software on higher spec PC anyway.
Pro consoles are an awful concept which create more problems than they solve.
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DeltaPolarBear
Member
And yet SIE value those 300 million. It matters to them. Sony has realistic goals and know how to achieve them. They make games and sell them.I guess that you know how much profit/how much in the loss Xbox is to make that claim right?
Also, I would not jump too high, because even with 6 million consoles sold and bangers left and right, SIE division made less than 300 millions in profits
Xbox can't afford to do the same, it wouldn't make enough to justify their existence. We were told that.