martino
Member
this reads like political posturing using false dilemma to me.
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How will Xbox One effect Halo Infinte?
- Thread starter Monkeygourmet
- Start date
this reads like political posturing using false dilemma to me.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Why? Explain. Am I wrong?
GymWolf
Member
People told me that sex version is gonna be full nextgen and not slowed down by xone version.
So 2 completely different game with different scope, different physics, different number of stuff on screen and basically a far worst version of the game on xone.
Sorry if i don't believe to this narrative where M literally shat on xone users throat just to push them to buy the new console during this economic crisis...
I'm pretty sure the real next gen halo is gonna be halo 7 and not this one.
But i play M game on pc so happy to be disproved.
So 2 completely different game with different scope, different physics, different number of stuff on screen and basically a far worst version of the game on xone.
Sorry if i don't believe to this narrative where M literally shat on xone users throat just to push them to buy the new console during this economic crisis...
I'm pretty sure the real next gen halo is gonna be halo 7 and not this one.
But i play M game on pc so happy to be disproved.
martino
Member
it's an opinion build on false dilemma excluding lot of other possibilities (and intent in this case)
Thirty7ven
Banned
So are you just dancing around with words or are you going to explain why it’s wrong?
I made an argument that was on topic. You have simply thrown an accusation at me based on feelings.
Do you think Halo Infinite to be two different games for two different consoles? Which one will be the PC version then?
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Knitted Knight
Banned
We will know in November. We still have no clear cut differentiator to reference to in the FPS space that screams and defines next gen as well. We would sorely need that to contrast Halo Infinite to it - for argument's sake.
I don't think we'll get all our questions answered in July anyway. And there is always the caveat... a developer can still create a great, highly lauded, loved and played game using an Xbox One as base. It's all up to talent, vision and execution. That's not to say there aren't certain visions that are created and come about as a result of new hardware making things easier and allowing light bulbs to light up.
I don't think we'll get all our questions answered in July anyway. And there is always the caveat... a developer can still create a great, highly lauded, loved and played game using an Xbox One as base. It's all up to talent, vision and execution. That's not to say there aren't certain visions that are created and come about as a result of new hardware making things easier and allowing light bulbs to light up.
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martino
Member
what feelings ? i only decried what you did and on top of it you think you"re right and it's some truth.
you want to be right then prove you can only build two version of a game playing with i/o and cpu constaints (no other possibilities or design choice to exploit them doing only one game)
Also prove a game can only be a system seller or gaas seller no the two at the same (and also prove this is the MS intent).
you already know false dilemma won't convince me...
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GamesAreFun
Banned
When the Wii runs Xenoblade Chronicles and the Switch runs Breath of the Wild (with a more interactive world than 99% of "next-gen" Open World titles), I'm always doubtful that the CPU limits the game design. I think that AAA games are constrained by their expectations of a certain graphical fidelity, and that hampers the creative aspects of the game.
Mypmarlo
Banned
I think he meant that Game Pass is now system seller for MS n MS 1st party are to sell Pass.
Thirty7ven
Banned
So your argument is that you can make a game with Xbox One as base target (Jaguar CPUs, 5400RPM dusk) and all you need is to drag the engine slider up in the options menu and the game will take advantage of the Series X as if it had been done with it as the base target.
So cross gen should be a thing for the next five years at least heh? Why not, doesn’t make sense to exclude the X1 going forward.
The other one is that even though MS has said hardware sales aren’t their priority anymore, Subscriptions are, Halo Infinite even though will debut on Gamepass on XB1, X1X, XSX and PC... MS intent is to position Halo Infinite as a system seller for XSX.
Very interesting. Indeed good luck with that.
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Coulomb_Barrier
Member
The HDD on XB1 (and PS4) is one of the biggest shackles to next gen games, more so than the GPU and netbook CPUs.
Next gen visual fidelity that was glimpsed in the UE5 demo and 5400rpm sata HDD's don't mix
Next gen visual fidelity that was glimpsed in the UE5 demo and 5400rpm sata HDD's don't mix
martino
Member
i will say it in more simplistic way what is wrong with your logic:
why not both.gif
with all the graduation of both you can think of.
you're jumping to me with my feelings but who is doing hyperbolic assumptions relying on paralogism ?
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D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
Since they see it as a system seller for XSX, don't you think the XSX version will be vastly superior? Because the engine they developed, purely for their games, and their systems, is build in such a way that you can get the best of both systems?
Thirty7ven
Banned
Again if you can have it both ways, explain how you do
The XSX will certainly be vastly better looking than the X1 version I agree.
But how is it possible for the game to be designed with the XSX capabilities as the base target and still have it be the same game on X1?
Something’s gotta give here. Otherwise what both of you are telling the rest of us is that the minimum required specs don’t matter, and next gen games can keep being cross gen forever because none of it matters.
Making two different games would work, but you would split the user base.
martino
Member
for the ms don't care about hardware/game sales. it's an hyperbolic read on your read.
When something is not your priority it don't mean you don't care at all about it. (and this is if we are talking software sales)
if we talk about hardware, a subscriber seller can be a system seller if you buy the hardware before subscribing (how can you not see that is beyond me....)
on the game there is a perfect existing example of one game with only part scrapped or redone : mordor.
again redo everything is hyperbolic /simplistic don't you think ?
and this example shows you can choose to scale down the best target.nothing is forced / obligatory the other way
'Shadow of Mordor's Nemesis System Reduced On Current-Gen
The procedurally-generated enemies of 'Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor' are so next-gen, Xbox 360 and PS3 versions will see a scaled-down approach.
gamerant.com
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D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
We'll have to see what they made in July. 2 different games would be possible, but then I'm not sure which version the PC would get...
Thirty7ven
Banned
for the ms don't care about hardware/game sales. it's an hyperbolic read on your read.
When something is not your priority it don't mean you don't care at all about it. (and this is if we are talking software sales)
if we talk about hardware, a subscriber seller can be a system seller if you buy the hardware before subscribing (how can you not see that is beyond me....)
on the game there is a perfect existing example of one game with only part scrapped or redone : mordor.
again redo everything is hyperbolic /simplistic don't you think ?
and this example shows you can choose to scale down the best target.nothing is forced / obligatory the other way
'Shadow of Mordor's Nemesis System Reduced On Current-Gen
The procedurally-generated enemies of 'Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor' are so next-gen, Xbox 360 and PS3 versions will see a scaled-down approach.
Well then any game is a system seller, if somebody buys the hardware before buying the software. What I'm saying is that Halo Infinite can't be positioned the same way as Halo 1 or Halo 2 or Halo 3, because it's releasing on three different systems. Why is it releasing on three different systems and not just the 1? Because primarily Halo Infinite is a gamepass killer app, not a XSX killer app. This is a fact, if it weren't a fact then Halo Infinite would only come out on XSX.
To your example, Shadow of Mordor. Have you played the 360/PS3 version?
It released a month later and Warner basically hid it from reviewers. The one gameplay system that made Shadow of Mordor warrant high praise and got it well reviewed was almost unrecognizable on PS3/360.
The game ran at 15-20 FPS on PS3, 15-25 on Xbox 360, 540p resolution.
You think it's reasonable for MS to hand out a shit version of Halo Infinite to the vast majority of gamepass subscribers, specially considering it will have crossplay and they will make up for the majority of the online userbase? Specially when Halo Guardians was a 60 FPS game?
We will see.
Reficul
Member
Halo Infinite on xbox one? More like Halo Finite...
Am I doing this fanboy thingy right?
On a more serious note. The game will probably need some loading corridors/elevators/or something to adjust to the lower tier hardware.
These corridors/... will probably be there on Series X also.
But this does not have to matter much if the developers can implement this in a natural fashion.
My guess is that you will be able to enjoy the game on whatever platform of choice. Enjoy.
Am I doing this fanboy thingy right?
On a more serious note. The game will probably need some loading corridors/elevators/or something to adjust to the lower tier hardware.
These corridors/... will probably be there on Series X also.
But this does not have to matter much if the developers can implement this in a natural fashion.
My guess is that you will be able to enjoy the game on whatever platform of choice. Enjoy.
martino
Member
existing only on one platform is not a mandatory condition to be system seller. (how what basis can you even think that ?)
how do you explain all those negotiated bundle of games (even cross gen ones) existing on 3 or more platforms :
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by your "logic" they are not system seller since they are not exclusives so why negotiate hardware bundles in the first place ?
How is it relevant it was poorly done in this case ? are you claiming it's impossible to be done correctly even more if you have less system to optimize for ?
And my point was not it will done this way btw.
it was to underline how hasty and limited your argument was.
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Thirty7ven
Banned
Nice use of strawman. And if your definition of system seller is any game available, with bonus added if it's bundled then ok, amazing conversation thank you.
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martino
Member
how selected games bundled because they are appealing to mass audience become "any games available" ?
go look at sales of most of those games on ps4 plz....
it's not a straw man you claim lot things can only be one thing or another
i keep providing you example your world is simplistic and they are more to it unlike you who stand by your point providing nothing concrete so far outside my opinion is fact.
what is you definition of a system seller ? an exclusive ? where did find that definition ?
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Thirty7ven
Banned
Post #167, where I use killer app.
Video games
The term has also been applied to computer and video games that persuade consumers to buy a particular video game console or other video game hardware product over a competing one, by virtue of being exclusive to that platform. Such a game is also known in video game parlance as a "system seller". Examples of video game killer applications are:
- Halo is considered to be the killer app for the Xbox console, and the series also went on to become a killer app for the Xbox 360 and Xbox One.
And I don't know, the way the word has been used since I can remember?
You're trying to be slick by muddying the waters of what something means in its common usage by negating its universal truth. The fact that you started by questioning my motives(Ad hominem) was already a bad start.
It's disingenuous and an exercise in time wasting. But go ahead now and say "but that's not what you said at first, you said system seller, and what I'm debating is the definition of the expression. And by definition that can be anything like the color, a game like Rocket league because it was bundled or the simple word of a friend." uh
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martino
Member
there is no ad hominem. i denounced an argument for what it was and ended showing why with examples.
i can accept you moving the goalpost (didn't notice it then).
then why is halo infinite a gamepass killer app when it will release day one on steam and on xsx (box)?
How can it even fit the definition with this context ?
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Thirty7ven
Banned
Accusing me of political posturing was ad hominem.
Goal posts didn't move, see it's not the word that matters it's the context. System seller is hardly ever used to describe Rocket League, that would be a very specific context. You moved the goal posts, extending the meaning of what I said to something outside the context of the argument.
But now that you're finally addressing what I said and not projecting, we can indeed debate the merits of my argument. Is Halo Infinite a gamepass killer app? It would seem that by definition it's not. It's the low price of access to Halo Infinite that is the gamepass killer feature, the price of access.
BUT it's also true that Gamepass will be only subscription service where you do have access to Halo Infinite. So you could say that as far as subscription services go, it is "a subscription seller" bordering on killer app.
Yet, yes I was wrong there, Halo is no longer a killer app by definition. I would argue then that it represents incredible value to gamepass, and MS can't afford to serve the majority of gamepass subscribers a version of Halo Infinite that could potentially do more harm than good, and therefore I believe there won't be two different versions of the same game like Shadow of Mordor, but one game that scales like any PC game would in essence from minimum required specs to recommended ones. This means Jaguar CPU and last gen I/O will bring barriers to designers. Cross play is another thing to consider.
So I argue as I did before, that XSX differences to X1 should be in providing max PC settings at 4k60 FPS and a 120FPS mode.
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Musky_Cheese
Banned
After Halo 5, the big worry for Infinite should be Campaign.
As far as visuals and things like that, the game will still be designed for base consoles. I would think the experience on base consoles would suffer before they let the higher tier consoles suffer
As far as visuals and things like that, the game will still be designed for base consoles. I would think the experience on base consoles would suffer before they let the higher tier consoles suffer
IncognitoPanda
Member
Affect* sorry
ResilientBanana
Member
Built for XSX and down ported to XOS.
The XOS version will rely on Normal mapping, baked light maps, dynamic resolution 800p - 1080p, less collisions, less physics, particles, lower poly assets, lower resolution textures, removal of GI and RT, screen space reflections, low res shadows, lower poly quixel style assets, more waves of enemies, and so on
the XSX version will most likely have higher poly counts, dynamic lighting with RT and GI, more physics based particles, High-Res textures, a better physics engine, dynamic resolution 1440p - 4K, high res shadows, higher poly quixel style assets, more enemies on screen balancing out the waves, and so on.
The XOS version will rely on Normal mapping, baked light maps, dynamic resolution 800p - 1080p, less collisions, less physics, particles, lower poly assets, lower resolution textures, removal of GI and RT, screen space reflections, low res shadows, lower poly quixel style assets, more waves of enemies, and so on
the XSX version will most likely have higher poly counts, dynamic lighting with RT and GI, more physics based particles, High-Res textures, a better physics engine, dynamic resolution 1440p - 4K, high res shadows, higher poly quixel style assets, more enemies on screen balancing out the waves, and so on.
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ResilientBanana
Member
They're remixing all the audio for Halo Reach and Halo CE which will come in an update. As far as those 2 games go, Porting from Xbox 360, which had a very specific architecture, to PC where there are billions of configurations is rough. H2A went fairly well if you ask me. But in reality 343 hasn't touched the game and the port and updates are being done by Saber Interactive.
Yoda
Member
I guess the question is: What is something you'd expect in a next gen game that can't be "turned off" w/o fundamentally changing how the game plays?
I'd say anything CPU bound and to a lesser extent persistence layer bound will need to bias towards the lowest common denominator. The Xbox One launched with a CPU which wasn't really great at the time and its next gen counterpart is far superior. The same goes for the persistence layer. We'll now have m2 speeds at the minimum and perhaps something more if all the buzz around the proprietary ssd stuff actually works as marketed.
For some guesses on how this would manifest:
For CPU:
* Normally physics, enemy AI, etc.... things which don't benefit from mass parallelism must be done on the CPU. Physics will need to be baked in, instead of perhaps fully simulated, this means the physics itself can't be a core gameplay components and anything where it'd have needed to been will have to rely on scripted sequences. For enemy AI, sequences which would require lots of computational power will need to be toned down or the total number of branches an AI has needs to be lowered.
For the persistence layer:
* If the marketing is true and you can remove loading times/make asset streaming seamless; this allows developers to pack much more details into large areas. The Xbox One obviously can't do this, so levels have to made assuming this can't be done. While I suspect no loading times between areas will be present on Xbox One Series X, the levels will need to be made in a way you can apply checkpoint/loading times to them, thus limiting player freedom due to needing to segments them.
I'd say anything CPU bound and to a lesser extent persistence layer bound will need to bias towards the lowest common denominator. The Xbox One launched with a CPU which wasn't really great at the time and its next gen counterpart is far superior. The same goes for the persistence layer. We'll now have m2 speeds at the minimum and perhaps something more if all the buzz around the proprietary ssd stuff actually works as marketed.
For some guesses on how this would manifest:
For CPU:
* Normally physics, enemy AI, etc.... things which don't benefit from mass parallelism must be done on the CPU. Physics will need to be baked in, instead of perhaps fully simulated, this means the physics itself can't be a core gameplay components and anything where it'd have needed to been will have to rely on scripted sequences. For enemy AI, sequences which would require lots of computational power will need to be toned down or the total number of branches an AI has needs to be lowered.
For the persistence layer:
* If the marketing is true and you can remove loading times/make asset streaming seamless; this allows developers to pack much more details into large areas. The Xbox One obviously can't do this, so levels have to made assuming this can't be done. While I suspect no loading times between areas will be present on Xbox One Series X, the levels will need to be made in a way you can apply checkpoint/loading times to them, thus limiting player freedom due to needing to segments them.
martino
Member
i mean we are far from "Halo Infinite is no longer a "system seller" but a "subscription service seller", "
now it's a good value for gamepass that also can be something else.
i see the difference if you don't see it
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Riven326
Banned
I was playing it on X1X. That versions audio is also botched.
ResilientBanana
Member
Well then, lucky for you it's being updated.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Up until last gen, this was the normal way games were made - heavily customized for the platform they were on. The idea that every game should look and play identically on every platform is very new.
Forza Horizon 2 came out on Xbox 360 as a port from the One version (which is one of the very, very few true exclusives for the platform). It's a pretty good game, and lots of fun, but it's definitely not meant to be the exact same game. Maybe it will be something like that.
Riven326
Banned
That's good. But it should gave been correct at launch. They knew about it and launched it anyway. That's how Microsoft and many other Triple A publishers operate these days.
It's a problem because I bought it yesterday and now I have to wait for them to fix it. By the time they get around to fixing it, I will have already moved onto some other game. This is why I've mostly stopped playing Triple A games. They have no respect for the people that buy their products.
Monkeygourmet
Banned
How will Sony get to sell the PS5 then?What is the difference? We know that UE5 scales all the way down to mobile phones, so I guess someone will have to come up with something better that could only run on PS5 to make it worthy, I mean my eyes were telling me how amazing UE5 looked, but my heart kept telling me this engine can also run on mobile and ruined the whole experience for me, I want to see something that can only run on PS5, same as with Xbox Series X, if it can run on Xbox One, then it isn't next gen worthy, suck it UE5, give me something better Epic.
Am I doing it right?
So games using Unreal 5 are just uprezzed mobile games?
nah
Journey
Banned
Console engines are generally built for one platform, the engine is specifically designed for one spec. In the case of Shadow of Mordor, a completely different team handled the port using their own engine for 360/PS3, that
Exactly my point, they are not, the same way Xbox Series X games will NOT be uprezzed Xbox One games
DaGwaphics
Member
Isn't the purpose of Smart Delivery to allow them to ship completely different packages to different hardware without the end-users needing to think about it?
Memorabilia
Member
It'll probably look decent and run like garbage on base X1. It's a shame they didn't make a clean break n develop this exclusively for XSeX but I understand it'd be difficult to leave all those prior gen sales on the table.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
You should probably ask the question the pother way around, the game is designed around the xbox one, so:
Q: How will the Series X affect Halo Infinite?
A: It will probably improve the frame rate, offer higher resolution textures, better effects, maybe even frame rate. It will not be a completely different game.
Q: How will the Series X affect Halo Infinite?
A: It will probably improve the frame rate, offer higher resolution textures, better effects, maybe even frame rate. It will not be a completely different game.
01011001
Banned
yes but if it is to the degree of Forza Horizon 2 it would literally be a different game released under the same name because that's what that was and that was what I disagreed with
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martino
Member
i must admit defining what is same game become even more complex with this info.
for example tomb raider anniversary / legend . At least 3 ports
Are those 3 different games ?
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JOEVIAL
Has a voluptuous plastic labia
lol it will look about as good as halo 5.
some of you guys acting like it will look like this.
This. It will look at-least as good as Halo 5. But I guarantee it will look better. We have already 2 trailers that showcase the engine and the visuals (both of those trailers are confirmed to be in-engine). In 4k it looks stunning, and on XBOX One X it will look stunning. Base XBOX One will probably be 30fps at a minimum of 900p. XBOX One X will probably be 4k at 60fps. XBOX Series X will more than likely have options for 120fps. This is Microsoft's flagship series on the new flagship console which they have been touting supports 120fps, so I would not be the least bit surprised if Halo Infinite supports some sort of 120fps mode at launch.