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How would you "fix" Splinter Cell?

Is this a troll post?

I can only assume Blacklist was your first Splinter Cell game, everything Blacklist did is what sunk Splinter Cell.

Marking enemies is basically wall hacking, it completely removes the suspense element from the game because you can see threats through walls.

The cover system is vastly better in MGS V and should be adopted by any future SC game.

Execute option is a stupid gimmick that added some bullshit 'cool' element to the game to appeal to the 'bruh kids', idiotic.

Irrespective of the ghost etc options, the above features being in the game in the first place already ruin the experience, the AI is altered and the gameworld is already altered to aligned with these features.

Spies Vs Mercs is the best SC MP and should be revived for any new SC game

Again with these kill animations....... their idiotic and appeal to the lowest common denominator, go play COD if you want big explosions, slo-mo stupid action fast and furious bullshit.

Splinter Cell was a methodical stealth game and should remain so, it should be treated like a game of chess and that's what made the early SC go great and that not being present in subsequent SC games is why SC doesnt exist today.
I've been playing SC since release day for part 1.

Im just actually able to play a game for what it is instead of bitch and moan about how the series isn't exactly the same for 30 years. They tried a new style and whether you like it or not it was hugely influential on the genre and has multiple new, highly polished gameplay systems and I thought it was phenomenal.
 

Sybrix

Member
I've been playing SC since release day for part 1.

Im just actually able to play a game for what it is instead of bitch and moan about how the series isn't exactly the same for 30 years. They tried a new style and whether you like it or not it was hugely influential on the genre and has multiple new, highly polished gameplay systems and I thought it was phenomenal.

Hugely influential... as if.. is that why SC still continues to sell and push the genre forward?

Or is it because Blacklist was a huge step back and effectively killed the series which is why we haven't had a new SC game since 2013.
 
Hugely influential... as if.. is that why SC still continues to sell and push the genre forward?

Or is it because Blacklist was a huge step back and effectively killed the series which is why we haven't had a new SC game since 2013.
Hugely influential as in basically every stealth game since then, and even light stealth TPS games have all copied elements from Blacklist. That's just a fact, despite your best efforts.

I never said the game sold well. Most SC fans at the time boycotted the game for doing anything different. The reason we don't have any more SC games is a mix of 1) that sales boycott shitstorm; the kind of petty closed minded attitude you're displaying perfectly now, and 2) Ubisoft in general going downhill for many years and not putting out anything that's not open world.
 

Apocryphon

Gold Member
300 is miniscule fot Ubisoft, who typically employs over 2000 people on a single game.
300 was an arbitrary number but yeah, that's fucking insane. The amount of stuff that must be designed by committee...

Not that there is nothing of value to be found in big budget large team development, but it's no wonder so many games end up having an identity crisis. I dread to think what it must be like to work on a game like Watchdogs 3 🤢
 

Apocryphon

Gold Member
Blacklist is phenomenal. No one gives it proper credit.

Pros:
  • Marking enemies. Copied in almost every stealth game since. They invented it.
  • Best cover system in any TPS ever made. Fluid traversal between cover spots with slick animations. Extremely polished movement options better than any stealth game.
  • Execute option. Invented it. Copied by other games.
  • Ghost, or Panther playstyles fully supported. No death runs on every level possible.
  • Very good multiplayer with multiple modes.
  • Fantastic melee take down kill animations. Some of the coolest knife kills in a game
Cons:

Can't think of any.
The original Far Cry, Crysis, and the Battlefield games going back to BF2 on 2005 had enemy marking. Ubisoft didn't invent the mechanic just popularized it and included it in literally every game they released in the past decade and a half.

They also didn't invent the execute mechanic. It was a gamplay system lifted from RTS games that existed in shooters before both Conviction and Blacklist.

Blacklist is an OK game with some very cool ideas, but it isn't the best stealth game ever and you're giving the team that worked on it far too much credit.
 

Connxtion

Member
Give me Chaos Theory with modern graphics. None of this run and gun madness we had with the last few.

Still go back to CT on Series X, still looks good for what it was back then.
 
More hardcore stealth, remove changes made to make it more “mainstream”.

Level design is everything. And make the character not take up 1/4 of the screen, which as a problem for me in 360 as compared to original Xbox. It seemed like Sam took up a lot more of the screen.
 
Take it away from Ubisoft and give it to Kojima. He's obviously the best at making stealth games. He's arguably the only guy (with Konami behind him at the time) that has been successful in making stealth games beyond the PS2/Xbox era. Also with a lot of the game mechanics (at least when the franchise first started out) was about lighting and shadows, Splinter Cell seems like the perfect game to show off "proper" ray tracing that actually makes a difference in game.

When I say "proper" ray tracing I'm not sure what I mean but maybe just something better than the shit we see at the moment where the RT makes hardly any difference and you have to watch a Digital Foundry video to notice it.

Alternatively, Ubisoft made that Thief game a while back...it didn't get raving reviews but it wasn't exactly slated. Seems to have been an OK game, so I reckon they have it in them if they stop fucking around with silly skins and mtx.
Wasn't ubisoft that made Thief4 it was eidos Montreal. It also sucked. They took away the jump button, and had him basically quasi open world. It wasn't a bad game but it wasn't what the fans wanted.

They really need to go back to the root of stealth with light and shadows. That is what made the games fun. It's been shit since conviction. Stop trying to be the next cinematic bond /uncharted game or what not and make splinter cell great again. Choas theory 2 with a larger open world and like you said dynamic shadows. Really create next Gen shadow tech. And maybe just maybe we will get a new theif game. A man can dream, right?

Also make it just single player for less investment. Then it doesn't need to sell millions. So no multiplayer, No costumes, battle royal, f2p, ubicash, no loot boxes, no mtx, etc...
 
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Knot3D

Member
AI-centric approach -Today's gamer generation is just used to stealth in general.
So, the old SC games are just too easy in contemporary context.

Actually, the "difficulty setting" all SC games so far consisted of a baseline enemy AI.
Meaning; the actual diffculty level, was solely based on increasing damage from enemy fire;
Ergo, the enemies didn't actually become smarter, they just did more damage to Sam's healthbar per hit.

In other words, the higher difficulty level didn't actually change much pure ghost players.
My suggested solution is to create a Top-to-bottom AI construct that dictates the difficulty level; This means they
need to create the best, sharpest and most feature rich enemy AI for the highest difficulty setting - then for the
lower difficulty settings, it's just a matter of scaling that top tier AI setting down.
Enemy guards should also receive more and better ways to counter Sam; Ergo, they should be able to preemptively
search the rafters and somehow reach his last known position when the players thinks he's outsmarting the enemy
by hiding somewhere up or down there.

Also, so far any SC has always had a set amount of enemy guards per map section. I'd say SC should embrace
insta-spawn backup guards - just punish players who screw up stealth. Make enemy guards' hearing better.
 

TheTurboFD

Member
I would love a new splinter cell with the slowness and level design of chaos theory paired with the cover mechanics and knife takedowns of blacklist. Shit just remake the first 3 with all that and expand the levels and I’d be happy.
 

dacuk

Member
Dead franchise.
Without Sam it's not Splinter Cell.
Without Michael Ironside, it's not Sam.

Same reason there is no Duke Nukem without Jon St. John.
Same reason there is no Master Chief without Steve Downes.
Kind of forget that those games are localized to multiple languages and voice overs, even more with Ubi being an European company.
 

EDMIX

Member
Kind of forget that those games are localized to multiple languages and voice overs, even more with Ubi being an European company.

Agreed and the whole concept of a Splinter Cell is that when one dies, another will take his place anyway. So I like the concept beyond Sam. I don't hate the character, simply that isn't a deal breaker and imho the biggest and best things about Splinter Cell simply isn't his character.
 

SafeOrAlone

Member
Spies Vs. Mercs PVP 2 v 2, 3 v 3. Modeled after Pandora tomorrow and Chaos Theory respectively. Co-Op through the main campaign. Not some side story BS.

No spies killing Mercs from the front...a la Blacklist, that shit was dumb. No way for Mercs to see through walls. EM vision was complete bullshit. No active Camo for spies. You got the shadows, use that shit.
This is smart. You "sell" the multiplayer and people discover the awesome campaign that comes with.

Look at Souls games. People will still simp for hardcore games based on a foundation of great gameplay.

I think the market will often be surprised with the results if they get back to focusing on just putting out solid, polished experiences, instead of multiplayer, road maps, loot crates, etc. But I also acknowledge that you've got to sell the idea to the people with the money.
 

EDMIX

Member
This is smart. You "sell" the multiplayer and people discover the awesome campaign that comes with.

Look at Souls games. People will still simp for hardcore games based on a foundation of great gameplay.

I think the market will often be surprised with the results if they get back to focusing on just putting out solid, polished experiences, instead of multiplayer, road maps, loot crates, etc. But I also acknowledge that you've got to sell the idea to the people with the money.

Don't get me wrong, that could work, but I feel more know the IP for being a single player game and might be put off from the MP aspect as that was a minor thing with a small market compared to the grander single player
 
The NeoGAF braintrust fixes Splinter Cells commercial viability by going back to the formula that killed Splinter Cells commercial viability in the first place.

Not your finest thread, NeoGAF!
 

proandrad

Member
The NeoGAF braintrust fixes Splinter Cells commercial viability by going back to the formula that killed Splinter Cells commercial viability in the first place.

Not your finest thread, NeoGAF!
Is that what happen? I don’t know the sales of each game but but it seemed to become a irrelevant franchise the further they got from Chaos Theory.
 
Is that what happen? I don’t know the sales of each game but but it seemed to become a irrelevant franchise the further they got from Chaos Theory.

The sales figures of the first 3 games look like this...

Splinter Cell - 6 million
Pandora Tomorrow - 3 million
Chaos Theory - 2.5 million

They changed up the formula with Double Agent because that trio, that Splinter Cell fans love, was headed in the wrong direction.

Couple that with the drying up of all big budget stealth games on the market and the replies to "Just make it like Chaos Theory" makes no commercial sense. It needs a new hook.
 

proandrad

Member
The sales figures of the first 3 games look like this...

Splinter Cell - 6 million
Pandora Tomorrow - 3 million
Chaos Theory - 2.5 million

They changed up the formula with Double Agent because that trio, that Splinter Cell fans love, was headed in the wrong direction.

Couple that with the drying up of all big budget stealth games on the market and the replies to "Just make it like Chaos Theory" makes no commercial sense. It needs a new hook.
I don't think those numbers are correct. In June of 2018 Ubisoft said splinter cell Franchise sold 32 million copies. So without the first 3 titles it means Double Agent, Conviction, and Blacklist sold a total of 20.5 million copies. I don't think Ubisoft would have put the franchise on hold if the last 3 titles sold that much.
 

AlphaMale

Member
I'd probably suggest 'nerfing' or dumbing down the Night Vision goggles. They're so good that I find I'm playing the game with Night Vision on 80% of the time. So, I'm basically playing the game in grainy black and white for 80% of it. lol
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Blacklist was already really good. It offered great modes to both casual and hardcore players. Just came out at a bad time and off the heels of the disappointing Conviction.

Its like asking what would you fix about Soul Calibur. Well…not much. Sometimes good games just don’t sell.
 
The NeoGAF braintrust fixes Splinter Cells commercial viability by going back to the formula that killed Splinter Cells commercial viability in the first place.

Not your finest thread, NeoGAF!
I guess the Chaos Theory fans just want the franchise to have one last old school hurrah and then finally and fully die out into obscurity 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
My take: Improve the story of the next game(s) tenfold. What made Metal Gear's lifespan longer than it's all of it's peers was mostly due to the care put into each game's story(Yes even V at times). I know Splinter Cell story has it's small fanbase, but the story in SC games always felt like background to the missions and gameplay. There were moments where he even learns critical plot points through in-gameplay audio and it just removes you from the feelings you're supposed to have regarding the story. Let that be more of a Ghost Recon thing and instead let Splinter Cell become the premiere storytelling franchise it has the potential to be.

I know Ubisoft has it in them because I've played Assassins Creed games. People fondly remember Ezio the most for a good reason. Imagine how creatively far they could push the story in SC and make it way more engaging to the audience. Every Metal Gear game, even in the spin-offs, I was on the edge of my seat itching to see more story and how things would progress with Solid Snake, Big Boss, and every character who interacted with them. I've never felt that with Sam Fisher. They've always tried to make him feel too cool and calculated for anything, even in his most emotional scenes which lasted for only brief minutes. Flesh that out more and make him something more than that. Let him be goofy at times like Snake was. It makes him more relatable.
 

Camreezie

Member
Go back to basics with the single player and tap in to the new advances in multiplayer eg. Battle royale modes. Cant make more money out of the IP when there hasnt been a new game in a decade
 

Trunim

Member
No remakes. Take every ounce of inspiration from the original trilogy that's possible and make something modern about it. Just skip the Jason Bourne stuff.
 
Would make it open world with a ton of icons, would also make the story about how Sam Fisher has decided to transition into a female and how she balances the process with saving the world at the same time.
 

StueyDuck

Neo Member
If anything Ubisoft should learn from IOI and take the sandbox approach for a Splinter Cell, or take Influence from Ground Zeroes. So in other words, wide open levels with many many many routes and an AI system that reacts like a MGS or Hitman would, then create a toybox of tools for the player to creatively use. Keep the game linear, do not i repeat DO NOT go open world.
 

Coney

Member
How about a large scale "stealth royale" mode lol. Big teams of spies vs mercs as the spies have to sneak in a big world being monitored by the mercs. Each would have unique objectives simultaneously. I'm just talking out of my ass right now, but could be interesting.
 
Blacklist was a great comeback for the series after the awful Conviction, and it's probably my favorite Splinter Cell game following Chaos Theory. Gameplay was great, the story was memorable with an epic ending, and I really enjoyed the challenge in the highest difficulty. The only thing I didn't like was a few PVE missions where you're forced to fight waves of enemies. And the missions locked behind coop gameplay.

I just hope Ubisoft keep the game fairly linear and missions based. We don't need another Wildlands or The Phantom Pain.
 

Von

Neo Member
Eh, if they keep it linear-ish, hire Ironside to VA like they did for that Ghost Recon: Breakpoint DLC, I’m sure it’ll push units.

Personal favourites is Chaos Theory, Blacklist and still to this day, I’ll mess around in both.
 

Three

Member
I would put a rewind feature similar to Grid allowing you to rewind up to 30 seconds. That way when you get spotted you can rewind back to where you were and learn the levels without restarting or turning the game into COD.

This would be optional and just put in difficulties that utilize it or not. I think people get frustrated with stealth and when they blow it try going loud with guns blazing because there is no other option. Rewind would allow them to play the game as intended without getting frustrated.
Splinter Cell: the sands of time.

I dig it.
 
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