Hungarian govt proposes to abolish gender studies in Hungary

sahlberg

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Oct 27, 2017
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Nearly all accredited US colleges, including all Ivy League colleges, offer gender studies degrees up to the doctorate level.
US colleges are not funded by tax money. They are primarily funded by the students themselves, paying to be enrolled and paying for the classes.
Again, if a student wants to take on student debt to study these things and pay for this privilege, go ahead, offer these programs as much as you want.

Don't use tax money for it though. Use tax money where society and the tax payers get most utility for it.
 

Grinchy

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In a cave outside of Whooville.
US colleges offer bullshit degrees because they love money. There’s nothing more profitable than a class like gender studies.

You pay the full tuition cost per hour, you take up a small classroom in a big building, your professor is paid less than real professors, etc.
 

matt404au

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US colleges offer bullshit degrees because they love money. There’s nothing more profitable than a class like gender studies.

You pay the full tuition cost per hour, you take up a small classroom in a big building, your professor is paid less than real professors, etc.
The universities love gender studies programs because they're bringing in people who otherwise wouldn't have gone to uni. The students in STEM and health were likely going to uni anyway, so if they change to another degree, the net effect for the university is zero. Gender studies is bringing in an untapped source of revenue.
 

Marshmallow

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On Neogaf today:

>Private companies chose to remove gay frogs dude from their platform

Horrible censorship.


>Right wing government de-platforms a certain field of study

Based Orban
 

Zog

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On Neogaf today:

>Private companies chose to remove gay frogs dude from their platform

Horrible censorship.


>Right wing government de-platforms a certain field of study

Based Orban
Isn't Gender Studies really just feminist studies?
 

matt404au

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On Neogaf today:

>Private companies chose to remove gay frogs dude from their platform

Horrible censorship.


>Right wing government de-platforms a certain field of study

Based Orban
You’ve clearly misunderstood the arguments. Whether purposefully or not, I can’t tell.
 

matt404au

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Isn't Gender Studies really just feminist studies?
In the 90s they rebranded women’s studies to gender studies and introduced the intersectionality doctrine because they realised they couldn’t achieve their political goals otherwise. Now, a bunch of disparate “oppressed” groups with little in common are joined together for the purpose of defeating the evil cis-het-white patriarchy.
 

TheShadowLord

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Jan 7, 2018
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I doubt you can not allow it. Hungry is still a democracy or something similar. Its mostly defunding.
Nah I don't agree. It's slowly losing its democracy. Government control of the kinds of news media should be alarming.
 

Dontero

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Even if just from a curious historical perspective, I would recommend learning about the history of religion and how it has positively shaped our societies. It's easy in today's environment to write it all off with a sneer,
I never said anything about faith being bad or good. I only said about "facts" when people talk about faith.
 

Idiocracy

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Jun 18, 2018
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@Dunki
Do you have anything to validate your story about the “brainwash” tv show and its impact on gender studies in Scandinavia? All I have been able to find is a restucturing of a Scandinavian center for gender studies that was decentralized from norway to the rest of scandinavia and that the norwegian research stopped having a fund (of about 900.000 $ a year) earmarked for research in gender studies (researchers could still apply for government grants for humanities).

I thought rokkanstoned would have challenged your post based on his knowledge Scandinavia, but he didn’t. I worked with research funding (broadly) in Denmark when the norwegian tv show was on and never heard about it until now.
 

Dunki

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Oct 24, 2017
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@Dunki
Do you have anything to validate your story about the “brainwash” tv show and its impact on gender studies in Scandinavia? All I have been able to find is a restucturing of a Scandinavian center for gender studies that was decentralized from norway to the rest of scandinavia and that the norwegian research stopped having a fund (of about 900.000 $ a year) earmarked for research in gender studies (researchers could still apply for government grants for humanities).

I thought rokkanstoned would have challenged your post based on his knowledge Scandinavia, but he didn’t. I worked with research funding (broadly) in Denmark when the norwegian tv show was on and never heard about it until now.
It was because of this show back then. If you compare the actual release date in TV and when the funding stopped you can easily see this. It made big waves in Scandinavia. and if @RokkanStoned is from Scandinavia then he could most likely find articles about this.
 

Idiocracy

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Its not the first time. In Scandinavia there was a series pretty big called Brainwash which touched on various more controversial subject liek Gender equality, Race, Violence etc. And through these videos the swedish gov did stop funding for gender and socail studies for more than a year.

Honestly. I do not think it should be forbidden. We still have religion you can study and this is also made up bullshit. But it should no be taken seriously unless they are using actual long term studies with scientific methods. But this does not happen much in this field.
At best you confused Sweden and Norway in your original post, and even then basic politics would explain what the funding thing:

This was the first refunding of the center after the great recession was in 2012 and all the Nordic countries were desperate for economic activity. The documentary came out a few months before negotiations started for the refunding.

That the negotiators from the other four countries funding the center wanted good tax payers and strong consumers for the money they comitted to, and that Norway stopped adding an earmarked national funding seems way more rational than the documentary theory.

Last but not least: no countries shut down their departments of gender studies, even for a year.
 

RokkanStoned

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Jan 14, 2018
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@Dunki
I thought rokkanstoned would have challenged your post based on his knowledge Scandinavia, but he didn’t. I worked with research funding (broadly) in Denmark when the norwegian tv show was on and never heard about it until now.
More like I've not been in this thread since page 1, where I dropped a quick "as long as it's public universities and just about programs and not courses, I don't care much" (because having your own program for gender studies is too specialized and unnecessary) and never checked in again. :pie_smiling:

On "Hjernevask" ("Hjerne" means Brain, "vask" means wash), that's a legit Norwegian show that ran. You can find it available on YouTube:


Its impact on gender studies, well, I'm pretty sure it was minimal, other than embarassing a lot of professors publicly and making social sciences ridiculed. I did a couple of courses about gender in history back when it aired and I can't remember it being mentioned much. I did a quick search and found an article from 2011 referencing the aftermath within the gender studies environment.

I can translate the part referencing it:
"- In what manner has the Brainwash debate affected the gender studies environment?
- I think it has lead to a lot reflections about how necessary it is to be informed and nuanced in facing biological research. We as gender researchers do also need to take a bit of the responsibility for the fronts being so sharp and that the question about social or biological gender has been understood as either-or. Gender studies have often been met with biological reductionism, so the reactions are maybe understandable, but it doesn't help to face one reductionist theory with another."


Oh wait, I did find a reference to research programs for gender studies losing 56 million kroners (a bit more than 6 million dollars) and instead having gender perspective being integrated into the more general area of research. That was a year after.

I doubt it'd have much an effect on other Scandinavian countries though and I haven't found any info about Sweden cutting funding. I'd have assumed that Denmark would be far more likely to cut funding than Sweden at least. And I've not found a single article from Denmark about it.
 

Greedings

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>Right wing government de-platforms a certain field of study

Based Orban
I think "field of study" is a rather grandiose term for it, don't you? I think "anecdotal circle jerk devoid of empiricism" is more accurate. Maybe that's too much of a mouthful to say though...
 
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Idiocracy

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More like I've not been in this thread since page 1, where I dropped a quick "as long as it's public universities and just about programs and not courses, I don't care much" (because having your own program for gender studies is too specialized and unnecessary) and never checked in again. :pie_smiling:

On "Hjernevask" ("Hjerne" means Brain, "vask" means wash), that's a legit Norwegian show that ran. You can find it available on YouTube:


Its impact on gender studies, well, I'm pretty sure it was minimal, other than embarassing a lot of professors publicly and making social sciences ridiculed. I did a couple of courses about gender in history back when it aired and I can't remember it being mentioned much. I did a quick search and found an article from 2011 referencing the aftermath within the gender studies environment.

I can translate the part referencing it:
"- In what manner has the Brainwash debate affected the gender studies environment?
- I think it has lead to a lot reflections about how necessary it is to be informed and nuanced in facing biological research. We as gender researchers do also need to take a bit of the responsibility for the fronts being so sharp and that the question about social or biological gender has been understood as either-or. Gender studies have often been met with biological reductionism, so the reactions are maybe understandable, but it doesn't help to face one reductionist theory with another."


Oh wait, I did find a reference to research programs for gender studies losing 56 million kroners (a bit more than 6 million dollars) and instead having gender perspective being integrated into the more general area of research. That was a year after.

I doubt it'd have much an effect on other Scandinavian countries though and I haven't found any info about Sweden cutting funding. I'd have assumed that Denmark would be far more likely to cut funding than Sweden at least. And I've not found a single article from Denmark about it.
Thats fair.
I got my numbers wrong on the money earmarked for gender studies in Norway. Your article on that money say that the fund had been around for 17 years in late 2011, and that lines up almost perfectly with when the Nordic Council of Ministers set up the Nordic gender Institute (1995) and when it moved to sweden (2012).
My theory is that in exchange for getting the money from NCoM to house the institute, the government of Norway agreed to add some funding of their own.

Anyway it doesn’t appear that any scandinavian government stopped funding gender and social studies as @Dunki claimed and the evidence that anything that happened was because of a tv-show, is not as clear cut as stated in his post(s).