• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

I actually prefer Spider-Man (PS5) at 30fps.

Audiophile

Member
Jun 25, 2015
716
2,374
700
England, UK
I know it has become a bit of trope that 30fps is closer to 24fps; and therefore it is "more cinematic". But this is one of those games where it holds absolutely true for me.

While I am in absolute agreement that 60fps feels more responsive and has less undesirable judder; and I do prefer 60fps for many game types, (first person, survival, sim, arcade and many other third person games etc.). Spider-Man just feels better to me in 30fps in terms of a sense of momentum, in terms of the visual believability, how the assets appear and just my overall emotional response to the game.

The heightened sense of reality can bring about a sense of mundanity that makes the experience feel less fantastical. Just as in movies where most scenes at HFR break down and literally come across as sets and actors in dress up.. In certain games that are trying to be conveyed as intrinsically cinematic or epic experiences, the more rudimentary nature of assets becomes more apparent with increased temporal resolution.

Insomniac also have exceptional motion blur; and the 60fps modes do not appear to have appropriately adjusted shutter speed for it. With this also comes that sense of momentum: 60fps is giving me more information but it feels mundane, but at 30fps I feel like I have weight and I'm swinging faster. The motion is implied within each frame and my brain is filling in the gaps to create something greater than the sum of its parts. Whereas at 60fps I'm just getting my current position.

Again, I'm totally in favour for 60fps for most other games as well as being an option for games like this. But, for games like this..... that present the character/s and the world to you as one in a somewhat cinematic or epic manner as opposed to presenting the world to you as if you're the character, then I hope making a 30fps option available remains the norm (just as ND did with the recent TLOUII PS5 patch, you can choose either in the menu).

While of course movies and games are different things, there is obviously some cross-over, particularly in games such as Spidey. But one eg. I'd also like to give in respect to movies and in a different regard (spatial resolution and shutter speed vs temporal resolution) would be Mission Impossible: Fallout. There's a few "LIEMAX" scenes near the end shot on a Panavision 8K digital camera at 1.90:1 (as opposed to the 35mm Film 2.35:1 scenes elsewhere). Now from what I can gather these are meant to make the scope feel bigger, to make the action scenes more clear and epic. In reality, these shots overload my sub conscious with visual information (high frequency detail, smoother motion) and subsequently they felt more mundane, too real and removed me from the movie; the fixed shots of Cavill in the chopper just felt like someone stuck a high res camera in a chopper on a documentary.

Don't get me wrong, I'm favour of all kinds of approaches (and especially options for the end user) across different content of different types, but I think it's important to take into account the visual texture of the medium in addition to the content and how it impacts peoples' emotional response to it. And of course, when it comes to games and if it is 30fps, it has to be rock-solid with tight frame-pacing, no tearing and as little latency as possible.

What I don't like is when a game is originally released in 30fps but is updated for new platforms and is only available in 60fps. Days gone did this on PS5 and while I personally do prefer 60fps for it, there should always be an option to revert to the original fps. I can't recall if it was the The Nathan Drake Collection of The Last Of Us Remastered; but one of these released on PS4 with only 60fps available and I absolutely hated it, the texture of it not only robbed it of the feels but last gen geometry stuck out like a sore thumb.

So yeah, to summarise: I think Spidey on PS5 just feels better at 30fps, greater sense of momentum, greater emotional response, more aesthetically pleasing image and more artistically in keeping with the content. And I personally prefer to trade-off some responsiveness and visual comfort in favour of that.
 
Jun 28, 2013
3,215
3,467
895
it doesnt matter.

all the pussies were throwing up when they watched spiderman into the spiderverse. They prolly also throw up and cry playing vr games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Audiophile

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Sep 5, 2007
11,954
13,716
1,820
UK
I understand what you mean
If it makes you feel better, I play it at 30fps too

Some games just feel right at that framerate while others 60fps is obviously better
If it's blatantly obvious that the game is running at high framerate then clearly something is off and it's not appearing natural to you
 
Last edited:

Senua

Member
Apr 30, 2007
3,741
10,301
1,830
Sony fans are a different breed

 
Last edited:

chaseroni

Member
Nov 27, 2018
378
513
340
I know what you mean OP, some games just feel more epic and heavy at 30fps.
It's a strange sensation and my brain definitely loves the smoothness of high fps but when taking in *the sights* of the game, 30 feels more grand in a way.

Dark Souls looks pretty badass at 30fps
 
Last edited:
Nov 29, 2016
2,985
2,803
525
I went through my 2nd playthrough of Miles Morales in 30fps with all the ray tracing goodness. Its difficult to go back and forth between the two but its still very playable at 30, although I prefer the 60fps.
 

Ev1L AuRoN

Member
Oct 30, 2020
396
649
355
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Even when it doesn't make any sense.

I wonder what you think of games that doesn't have the option for 30fps. Looks like BS to me.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Jan 30, 2010
15,605
5,292
1,410
https://twitter.com/Agnates
metacouncil.com
It's ok to prefer the graphical perks and 30 fps when given the option for less shine, more fps. I may lock game x to 30fps and boost the settings on PC too, rather than try to reduce all games to the point they can run 60+ on my aging PC.

But it's silly to claim the lower fps is the actual reason it's all better. Like to the point where all else would be roughly equal and you'd still lock to 30fps with no other tradeoff whatsoever rather than suffer through 60 fps. That's just crazy...
 
Last edited:

GHG

Member
Nov 9, 2006
26,562
40,856
1,845
That's why the option is there for those who want it.

For me it depends on the game. Some games I need 60-12hz for them to feel good whereas others can get away with 30fps.
 

peter42O

Member
Aug 9, 2014
4,434
2,519
650
To each their own but playing Miles in Performance RT mode on PS5 was great. Felt better to play. Much smoother, more responsive and the better frame rate does improve the image quality. Hoping that Ratchet has a Performance RT mode at launch because I don't want to play at 30FPS. That shit is done for me personally.
 

Audiophile

Member
Jun 25, 2015
716
2,374
700
England, UK
A lot of people with either/or mindsets jumping to conclusions to defend their own preference. I've not said one or the other is better in every respect. I've clearly stated 60fps provides better responsiveness and a temporally smoother image; and that I prefer that in most games.

But 30fps elicits a different emotional response and can elicit a greater sense of momentum; and in regards to Spidey in particular, I personally find it more fitting and will make that trade off. I'm not trying to take your 60fps away, just conveying my reasoning as to why 30fps works better for me here.

Also: "feel" can be interpreted in multiple ways, controller responsiveness and visual comfort is one way, emotional response and sense of motion is another. When it comes to 30fps, I'm referring to the latter.
 

skit_data

Member
Nov 3, 2020
2,529
6,137
435
I just bought Spider-Man MM today and after playing an hour or two, I totally get what you’re going at!

It might be because I played the last one in 30fps but I really started thinking ”This feels...wierd in this particular game”. I loved Demon’s Souls in 60fps. I love Returnal in 60fps. I pretty much love 60fps in all games that require more precision and timing but I’m seriously thinking about switching to the fidelity mode, or at least switch back and forth to see what feels the best. I had no issues playing TLOU2 in 30fps, I think it pretty much depends on the nature of the game.
 

Chukhopops

Member
Mar 5, 2020
1,173
2,944
490
Luxembourg
No matter what information is provided to people like you, how much we try to convince you with data on why your post is the most retarded shit today on this board, you still believe you made a great post.
Harsh but true. I hope games with forced 30fps (I don’t mind 30 FPS as an option for cinema fans) are a thing of the past but I’m not sure it will happen.
 

nkarafo

Member
Nov 30, 2012
16,733
8,524
1,070
I'm sorry you don't get it?
I never said I liked it more, it's just a sensation and I know what OP is talking about
60fps games always feel better to play duh
Could you explain what exactly makes lower frame rate feel grand?

Would it feel more grand to you if it was 20fps? How about 10? Would that feel epic?
 
Oct 30, 2011
6,958
7,681
1,075
Insomniac are masters at 30 FPS fluidity. It looks very good, not sure I agree it’s better than 60 FPS though...the detail trade off wasn’t very big

ratchet will be interesting to see
 
Last edited:
Mar 16, 2014
1,258
1,114
780
I agree. The animations look "off" at 60fps and the game then feels more arcadey and twitchy at 60. I also don't like the visual downgrade in the 60fps mode. The reflections are even lower res and there are no dynamic shadows in the reflections.

Overall, I just prefer the look and feel of 30fps mode.

That being said, I like TLOU2 at 60fps because there's literally no downgrade to the graphics. When there are trade-offs, I usually prefer maximum fidelity, but in the case of TLOU2, there's no trade-offs.

Edit: Also, graphical errors like pop in are more noticeable at high frame rates. Stuff just sticks out way more and errors are much easier to see.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Whitecrow
Dec 22, 2020
203
437
280
I've recently played a lot of 60fps titles on my PS5/XSX and I was afraid of going back to 30fps, especially so on an OLED TV. I know I've enjoyed many 30fps games on my PS4 Pro, even though I own a $3000 PC.
So I've tried to get accustomed to it by playing Spiderman MM and ... it worked! I was so happy, that means I can still appreciate 30fps. I'm ready for Ratchet and Clank at max. fidelity now.

For the people who can only function at 60fps, I hope you never go above that (120/144fps), because there's no going back either.
I'm personally happy I can deal with anything >= 30fps.
 
Mar 16, 2014
1,258
1,114
780
Wait, if 60fps is ALWAYS better in every way, then why do developers often use 30fps or even include a 30fps option? Any game can run at 60fps on any system, it just depends on how good you want it to look.
 
Dec 22, 2020
203
437
280
motion clarity and input response says "no"
Motion clarity certainly takes a hit, but input response in an action-adventure game as forgiving as Spiderman is never a concern. It's even playable with motion interpolation with some getting used to.
 

chaseroni

Member
Nov 27, 2018
378
513
340
Could you explain what exactly makes lower frame rate feel grand?

Would it feel more grand to you if it was 20fps? How about 10? Would that feel epic?
It's more about the weight of the actions and animations at 30 fps, things just look like they hit harder.
Shadow of the colossus bosses, look pretty cinematic and heavy at 30fps but at 60fps they lose a bit of that weight.
I do think it's a hard thing to convey or explain.

Also perfect frame pacing is an absolute must at 30fps, otherwise its a mess. Look at bloodborne. I fucking love that game but god damn the frame pacing is distracting as hell.

If given the option, I will always choose 60fps if the visuals aren't downgraded in a terrible way, gameplay and input is better at 60fps, no arguments there.
 

VN1X

Member
Apr 21, 2016
2,516
4,273
820
Ew. Gross. That's a yikes from me. This ain't it chief. Digusting!
 

Audiophile

Member
Jun 25, 2015
716
2,374
700
England, UK
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Even when it doesn't make any sense.

I wonder what you think of games that doesn't have the option for 30fps. Looks like BS to me.
Thanks for the first bit.

However, in regards to the second bit, it does make sense: movies and television -- while different mediums -- have shown that people have a very different emotional responses to different framerates. High framerates make things more realistic, flaws stand out and things appear more mundane. With lower framerates it acts as a cinematic veil of sorts, things appear more fantastical, your brain has to fill in the gaps, it has trade offs but to say we don't respond differently to vastly different framerates is categorically untrue.

As for the latter, I've just stated clearly in my post I prefer 60fps for most games and that I simply hope a 30fps option is in place for games where it is fitting; particularly re-releases.
 

RaginPwner944

Member
Dec 11, 2014
138
114
425
just stop it. you don't. 30 fps is the frame rate. your eyes "see only about 24" as they say. so at 30 fps, you're now degrading it with your eyes' frame rate so it is super choppy. the real world is at infinity framerate. crystal clear and smooth. then our eyes' "frame rate" degrades it. so therefore the higher the framerate we can get (i.e. closer to reality), the better experience. saying 30 fps is enjoyable just doesn't make sense. it's playable yes. but preferable? come on man
 
Last edited:

nkarafo

Member
Nov 30, 2012
16,733
8,524
1,070
It's more about the weight of the actions and animations at 30 fps, things just look like they hit harder.
Shadow of the colossus bosses, look pretty cinematic and heavy at 30fps but at 60fps they lose a bit of that weight.
I do think it's a hard thing to convey or explain.

Also perfect frame pacing is an absolute must at 30fps, otherwise its a mess. Look at bloodborne. I fucking love that game but god damn the frame pacing is distracting as hell.

If given the option, I will always choose 60fps if the visuals aren't downgraded in a terrible way, gameplay and input is better at 60fps, no arguments there.
I played every version of Shadow of Colossus and i get what you mean. PS2 chugs so hard that it almost feels like slow-motion at times. It does give the feeling that the PS2 or the "cameraman" can't cope with the amazing sight of a Colossus.

But still, after playing the remastered version, i can't go back to the slow original. The smoother frame rate gives me much more visual information during the Colossus fights and i don't feel like the loss of "slow motion" takes anythign away. If they wanted, they could use slow-motion and still run at 60fps but obviously that effect was not intended, it was kinda like a "happy accident" if you like that kind of thing.
 
Last edited:

Chukhopops

Member
Mar 5, 2020
1,173
2,944
490
Luxembourg
Wait, if 60fps is ALWAYS better in every way, then why do developers often use 30fps or even include a 30fps option? Any game can run at 60fps on any system, it just depends on how good you want it to look.
The answer is obsession for graphics and « bells and whistles ».