I don't think Death Stranding will be as good as people are hoping

Oct 10, 2018
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I love how haters diminish the people who know the lore and know how to connect things.



And oh boy, this type of hater is awesome too. So everything Kojima has done outside of Metal Gear is crap, so he only made one good thing once, maybe twice. He is a hack with good luck, everybody.

But let's remember some of his games:

Snatcher. A game that has a cult following and that some people utterly love and claim to be one of the best games ever. But I guess is just some "weird Blade Runner anime copy" and we call it a day.

Policenauts. Another gem, but is more "weird plot anime trash", so that is bad. You don't want animu in your videogames.

Zone Of The Enders. A good game, but again it has those silly anime robots from Evangelimoon or something. It's also just a good game, not a masterpiece, so another fail.

Boktai. Another good, fun and innovative game. But still anime, ewww. Is this Kojimbo japanese or something? What a freak.

The PT demo doesn't count, despite being awesome as fuck. And creating one of the most influential, innovative and greatest games ever was just a one time thing, so it doesn't count neither, obviously.

There's a reason everybody knows Kojima for Metal Gear, the same way that most know Bruce Springsteen for Born In The USA. They haven't done anything else remarkable outside of that, obviously.

Fucking hacks, I'm telling you.
No, this is poor fanboy logic.

The issue isn't that Everything he made outside MG is trash, which I never said and is a standard weeb 3rd grader retort, but that you ignore reality that the market in general does not care for those games.

Everything I said is almost all objective in relation to the market. But you have to label truth as "haters". Even Metal Gear was nothing until Solid.

Boktai being good in your opinion or not isn't relevant, the only reason the game got a niche in the west is because of a cameo. That's not being a hater that's a fact. You using poor anime arguments to dismiss facts is weird, especially when I never even said eww anime, just typical of your type of gamer.

MGS specifically is where Kojima gets 99% of his pedigree from.

The rest of you post is just as ridiculous. Snatchers cult following is based on the same niche weeb cults of other games. It was rightfully trashed even by some viewers in japan for odd writing and a poorly aged even for the time interface.

Does that mean the game is garbage? No, does it seem like a game even part of the core market would play? No. That's unacceptable to guys like you so you spin it as some amazing overrated experience that people only dislike because "they don't understand" which is baffling.

And all that is you also admitting these games have small following, going back to the truth of my previous statement, most gamers only cared about MGS from his output. Which apparently you have an issue with.

I mean look at the craziness your spouting, your calling a demo a full game and saying it's among the greatest games of all time when it's barely a game. You're too focused on being in the Kojima defense force you cant even accept other perspectives.
 
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I once played & loved MGS 2 on hard difficulty, fighting against 12 Metal Gears at the end with Raiden. I also played & loved MGS 3 multiple times (& methodically completed MGS4 as well). So cut the cr*p, i.e. understanding the difference between lore & inconsequential convoluted nonsense is why I jumped off the Kojima train a long time ago. As Kojima dug deeper & deeper into narrative shite, his most ardent defenders could always be counted upon to screech "haters!" at those of us who smelt the coffee.

Thanks for confirming my post, though. My advice? Go & fry an egg, i.e. I'm certain you'll find something to "connect" & understand when gazing at that frying pan. The rest of us will just shrug & move on.
What a surprise, the "I played Metal Gear so I can't be a hater despite coming to the thread to hate" response.

Totally unexpected.
 
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The issue isn't that Everything he made outside MG is trash, which I never said
You didn't say is trash, you just trashed every game with shitty ridiculous "descriptions" so you could end with "Theres a reason most only know him for Metal Gear".

You know what I hate more than haters? Cowardly haters that backpedal so they don't look that ridiculously negative.

Boktai being good in your opinion or not isn't relevant
What is not relevant is you trying to equate big market success with quality.

You dissmiss the games because they are niche, so therefore even if they sold well for what they are, they are failures because they are niche. Flawless logic, is almost as if you were selecting all the variables to shit on them "objectively".

especially when I never even said eww anime
Snatchers cult following is based on the same niche weeb
Yeah, is totally obvious that you aren't using the "ewww anime" card at all.


And all that is you also admitting these games have small following, going back to the truth of my previous statement, most gamers only cared about MGS from his output. Which apparently you have an issue with.
I guess you aren't capable of discerning simple ideas. Seem like the Boss comparison I made with the Born In The USA flyed over your head. My bad.

your calling a demo a full game
Now he is even imagining things!
 
Likes: Shifty.
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You do know what Cameo means right?
Keep on dodging those questions, because you can't answer them worth shit :messenger_halo:

I bought Boktai back in the day because it looked cool, not because it was featured in (or featured a character from) [game that you refuse to specify for fear of having your weak-ass argument exposed].
 
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What a surprise, the "I played Metal Gear so I can't be a hater despite coming to the thread to hate" response.

Totally unexpected.
Well, to a sane person, someone who actually played the games multiple times (including on the harder difficulty for more than just sh*ts & giggles) probably wouldn't be seen as a "hater" of the games & franchise in question. Do you often play & replay games you hate? That's a rhetorical question, FYI.

I just happen to have removed my rose tinted glasses & noticed from MGS 4 onwards a serious bullshit trend in Kojima's MGS series which was detrimental to the whole experience, in terms of the plot (or lack thereof), pacing, level design etc.
 
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If Kojima and Sony market this as something that will blow our minds and change gaming forever, the chances of disappointment will increase, imo.

People who will be disappointed:

1) Those who will see gameplay and it will end up being completely irrelevant to what they had in mind (which isn't far-fetched, considering almost no one has seen gameplay and most people have a personal hypothesis / guess of what the gameplay will be all about)
2) People who except this to be a spiritual successor to Metal Gear simply because Kojima is making it.
3) People who expect the story will make sense.
4) SJWs
5) People who expected the original fruit from the Kojima/Reedus/Del Toro collaboration (still hurts to this day).
 
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I dunno why this guy can never release some gameplay and always has to be this insanely weird video's with no explanation of what you do for years on end.

Then people get randomly hyped for these random video's ???

I can't think of a single game this guy made that ever interested me. Metal gear was a fun little stealth game back in the early days. It became totally outdated the moment online gaming arrived.

This guy hasn't been relevant for a while now.
 
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I dunno why this guy can never release some gameplay and always has to be this insanely weird video's with no explanation of what you do for years on end.

Then people get randomly hyped for these random video's ???

I can't think of a single game this guy made that ever interested me. Metal gear was a fun little stealth game back in the early days. It became totally outdated the moment online gaming arrived.

This guy hasn't been relevant for a while now.

Yes, pretty irrelevant, he made a horror demo of a cancelled game (PT) that has had the biggest hype since ever, to the point of modders replicating the full demo in PC. That is the impact and influence this guy has in the industry.

"random videos" with an original plot with some of the biggest names in Hollywood. yeah, any of us can do that in our garage any day of the week.
 
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If Kojima and Sony market this as something that will blow our minds and change gaming forever, the chances of disappointment will increase, imo.

People who will be disappointed:

1) Those who will see gameplay and it will end up being completely irrelevant to what they had in mind (which isn't far-fetched, considering almost no one has seen gameplay and most people have a personal hypothesis / guess of what the gameplay will be all about)
2) People who except this to be a spiritual successor to Metal Gear simply because Kojima is making it.
3) People who expect the story will make sense.
4) SJWs
5) People who expected the original fruit from the Kojima/Reedus/Del Toro collaboration (still hurts to this day).
I'm 6) The ones that played Lords of Shadow and didn't understand how can someone screw up Castlevania so badly.
 
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Few years ago, I "played" both Snatcher, and Policenauts as part of my big "order of release Kojima marathon", although, there were games that I skipped like Penguin Adventure, or Boktai, and, IMO, putting aside my love for Metal Gear series, both of these titles were masterpieces, which is saying something considering I played them decades after their initial release - similar thing happened when I almost went crazy around 2010, when I finally played Chrono Trigger, and how impressive it was.

The problem is, though, Snatcher and Policenauts simply AREN'T NORMAL GAMES, they are graphic adventures - text and story is everything.
Yeah, Snatcher was inspired by Blade Runner and Terminator, but to me that wasn't a bad thing, and it was just sweet old school cyberpunk experience.

Same goes for Policenauts, but I do regret not watching Lethal Weapon movies before it, for some reason - I watched them recently.
Still, just like Snatcher, it was just inspired by Hollywood movies, and that's it, it's still it's own thing with interesting twists, characters, and setting.

Btw, having experienced those titles, it kind of gave new references in later Kojima's game; such as Meryl, Tokugawa Hevy Industries, Metal Gear Mk. II, and so on...

If I would have any complaints about Kojima's games, those would be how I didn't like how some characters were treated, such as Paz in MGSV, or decisions about voice acting, for instance, Solidus Snake being voiced by John Cygan, instead of David Hayter, which ruined his reveal in MGS2, Patrick Zimmerman voicing Liquid Ocelot, instead of Cam Clarke (yeah, they explained it, kind of, but it still just didn't felt right), and the whole Kiefer Sutherland replacing David Hayter thing in MGSV...

I also wish all Kojima's games with voice acting were also available with original japanese audio, since all voice actors are best of the best...
Yusaku Yara, Kikuko Inoue, Akio Otsuka, Banjo Ginga, legendary late Kaneto Shiozawa, Takeshi Aono, Hideyuki Tanaka, and so on.

In Portable Ops, main villain Gene, whose primary ability is based on his voice, is voiced by Norio Wakamoto, who is by many considered Seiyu God.

To usual gamer that wouldn't be so important, and I personally just love english voice actors, since they managed to make characters their own, but if you watched anime for a while, especially old school stuff, and learned to recognize many of them just by hearing them, you would probably also wish to experience games with Kojima's original vision.
And if you compared japanese, and english versions, you will realize how many characters feel very different.

Unfortunately, I only managed to find Policenauts with original voices; which is a shame, because two characters from MGS4 with same names as Policenauts protagonists are voiced by the same voice actors in japanese version.

Which brings me to my last point, people often forget that, as much as Kojima tries to go all Hollywood, he is still japanese creator, and trust me, ever since first Metal Gear, till the MGSV, his games were definitely based on anime, or simply storytelling, or setting, or the way characters behave in japanese animation.
And very often some things just felt awkward when it was translated into english; even more so, because anime in general in lots of cases doesn't make sense, is overdramatic, convoluted, silly, retconned, etc...

Sounds familiar?

I don't know what will Death Stranding be, but I'm fairly sure that you can get Hideo Kojima out of Japan, but you can't get Japan out of Hideo Kojima.
And if there is one thing I don't want, it is for Kojima to stop being Kojima.
 
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If Kojima and Sony market this as something that will blow our minds and change gaming forever, the chances of disappointment will increase, imo.

People who will be disappointed:

1) Those who will see gameplay and it will end up being completely irrelevant to what they had in mind (which isn't far-fetched, considering almost no one has seen gameplay and most people have a personal hypothesis / guess of what the gameplay will be all about)
2) People who except this to be a spiritual successor to Metal Gear simply because Kojima is making it.
3) People who expect the story will make sense.
4) SJWs
5) People who expected the original fruit from the Kojima/Reedus/Del Toro collaboration (still hurts to this day).
That's not marketing. People who were actually played the game said it blew their mind.

Kojima was working on Silent Hills and the demo received a lot of praise, which proves he's not overrated as people on here are trying to make him out to be.

People on here may call the P.T Demo almost nothing, but people cannot deny that it received a lot of praise from people throughout the gaming community.
 
Oct 10, 2018
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Keep on dodging those questions, because you can't answer them worth shit :messenger_halo:

I bought Boktai back in the day because it looked cool, not because it was featured in (or featured a character from) [game that you refuse to specify for fear of having your weak-ass argument exposed].
Weeb doesnt mean www anime unless your like 5 years old...maybe?

But it means your a radical Japanese game fan and basically hate everything that criticizes them thus for some reason will be surprised why a lot of games from their don't appeal to people.

Also how xan You say I backpedalled when YOURE the one that backpedalled after falsely stating I said the other games were garbage?

Wow.

I also didn't dismiss games because they we're niche. Your now trying to make your personal opinions on thus games factual when you calling them the best most legendary games is subjective. Learn to chill.
 
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Keep on dodging those questions, because you can't answer them worth shit :messenger_halo:

I bought Boktai back in the day because it looked cool, not because it was featured in (or featured a character from) [game that you refuse to specify for fear of having your weak-ass argument exposed].
You continue to look like a fool in these threads, Boktai got a boost from being a MMBN cameo, this isnt a debate. That doesn't mean no one brought it until then, that's just your desperate spin to pretend you have an argument.

The truth is Boktai was relatively unknown in the west, and even in japan but to a lesser extent, until MMBN4, which pushed it forward. Especially in japan where the game sold nearly 1 million copies. But it arguably helped in the west more, and even then it wasn't that popular.
 
Kojima is a very marmite game designer. You either love him or hate him. I personally love the guy and love when he gets all crazy with his ideas. He’s had his flops, yeah, like the boredom simulation that was MGS4, and the blandness of MGS5 (which I’ll forgove as I doubt he was fully at the wheel here).

But something isn’t right about this whole thing... I just have this massive worry the game will be pants. Like, yeah, the cutscenes May look visually incredible (and full of stuff that makes no sense) but the GAME won’t be much good...

I dunno. I honestly can’t say I’ve seen enough to make a proper call as yet.

I do wish he was doing Silent Hills instead though.
 
Sep 25, 2015
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You continue to look like a fool in these threads,
Coming from the guy that ignores any argument that he feels is well-reasoned enough to be intimidating, continually accuses other posters of being 'desparate', and argues almost exclusively in bad faith?

Not to mention that you managed to quote me twice in your 'desparation' to get your retort posted. I can only assume message #269 was meant for @Jon Neu

You're the fool around these parts, bucko.

Boktai got a boost from being a MMBN cameo, this isnt a debate.
Oh I see, time to quickly move the goalposts because you went over the top with your original wording and got called out for it. The 'desparation' intensifies.

Let me remind you of how you phrased it, to keep you honest as you attempt to twist the facts and misrepresent the posters you're attempting to argue against:

the only reason the game got a niche in the west is because of a cameo.
Mmm yes, the honking stench of hyperbole.

That doesn't mean no one brought it until then, that's just your desperate spin to pretend you have an argument.
There's that word again. You use it so much that I'm beginning to think you're projecting your own neuroses onto your fellow posters.
 
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Coming from the guy that ignores any argument that he feels is well-reasoned enough to be intimidating, continually accuses other posters of being 'desparate', and argues almost exclusively in bad faith?

Not to mention that you managed to quote me twice in your 'desparation' to get your retort posted. I can only assume message #269 was meant for @Jon Neu

You're the fool around these parts, bucko.


Oh I see, time to quickly move the goalposts because you went over the top with your original wording and got called out for it.

Let me remind you of your original wordong, to keep you honest as you attempt to twist the fact and misrepresent the prople you're attempting to argue against:


Mmm yes, the honking stench of hyperbole.


There's that word again. You use it so much that I'm beginning to think your the one who's desperate- there aren't many other explanations for this hardcore projection onto whomever you may be arguing with.
You lost the argument.

By saying the goal posts were moved when they were not it shows your original argument collapsed and are trying to lie about what I said so you can still pretend to have a fake argument. Sad.

I said Boktai in the west got it's niche following from a cameo, that never changed, I just clarified your response was putting words in my mouth and lying by implying ALL Boktai sales were from that which is what I call desperation semantics.

Please dont continue arguing about games you know nothing about. Cool? Thx.
 
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You lost the argument.

By saying the goal posts were moved when they were not it shows your original argument collapsed and are trying to lie about what I said so you can still pretend to have a fake argument. Sad.
So because you apparently don't understand the concept of moving goalposts, you win? Nice attempt at a gotcha, but no. You really don't.

I guess that blue pill of blissful ignorance is some real potent stuff.

I said Boktai in the west got it's niche following from a cameo, that never changed, I just clarified your response was putting words in my mouth and lying by implying ALL Boktai sales were from that which is what I call desperation semantics.
I never said shit about where boktai sales came from outside of calling out your claim about its Western success being attributable to a cameo and providing some anecdotal evidence.

The rest is all in your head, son.

And putting words in your mouth? That's real rich when you seem to have enough words to misrepresent the arguments of everybody you engage with :messenger_tears_of_joy:

On top of that, let's just ignore the fact that you started this dialogue by dodging a perfectly legitimate question with an insult. That's what I call desparation semantics.

Please dont continue arguing about games you know nothing about. Cool? Thx.
I'm just gonna assume this little attempt at ad-hom was a mental note for yourself that accidentally got pasted in over the course of your furious keyboard mashing.

Stay strong kiddo.
 
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Kojima's output over the last 30-plus years shows a remarkable string of successes. There is no debate to be had, its a historical fact.

I'd say he knows what he's doing.
 
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Boktai got tons of love in german media and on message boards at least. For its features, its graphics and its charm.

I didn't have a gba back then so I could only check out the discussions until I played it later on, but honestly neither the cameo nor even that it was a Kojima game were discussed much.

This forum is the first time I've even heard about a cameo? being a big part of it selling. Maybe it was a bigger deal in englisch speaking countries?
 
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So because you apparently don't understand the concept of moving goalposts, you win? Nice attempt at a gotcha, but no. You really don't.

I guess that blue pill of blissful ignorance is some real potent stuff.


I never said shit about where boktai sales came from outside of calling out your claim about its Western success being attributable to a cameo and providing some anecdotal evidence.

The rest is all in your head, son.

And putting words in your mouth? That's real rich when you seem to have enough words to misrepresent the arguments of everybody you engage with :messenger_tears_of_joy:

On top of that, let's just ignore the fact that you started this dialogue by dodging a perfectly legitimate question with an insult. That's what I call desparation semantics.


I'm just gonna assume this little attempt at ad-hom was a mental note for yourself that accidentally got pasted in over the course of your furious keyboard mashing.

Stay strong kiddo.
Yep you lost the argument. Using 3rd grade "kiddo" insults eroding the conversation.

You're the only one desperately lying saying I moved goal posts after falsely putting words in my mouth. My post never changed on Boktai, a cameo is the reason it's niche following exists. I know this hurts you but it would be better if you didn't result to being dishonest to save face.

Try debating in good faith and not lying or putting words in peoples mouths.
 
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Been saying from the start that I'm worried that unbound Kojima will prove too be too much Kojima, and it'll be an overwrought surreal mess.

Hoping I'm proven wrong though.
 
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Death Stranding is one of those games that everyone will want to see. I hope I still want to play it after I see it. I played part of MGS, MGS4 twiceish, and MGS5. The gameplay of MGS5 was top notch, but the story from those games never really drew me in. Hopefully with Sony's help, they can blend story and gameplay better.
 
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This is the sort of hype which will be detrimental to the game, without doubt in my mind. People are going to expect some sort of tantra gaming experience unlike anything they've seen before (& better). All of this carefully worded praise & hype (& deliberately opaque/vague) posted on Twitter is just another part of the marketing campaign.
 
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If someone has a track record of doing things right it's simple logic to presume that his netx work, under good conditions, is going to be good as well. Likewise, people hype over Naughty Dog, CD Projekt or the next Zelda game, because they have proven themselves already. You need evidences to state otherwise and so far they do not exist. We have signals justifying the hype such as:

- Kojima with no creativity restraints

- Decima engine

- Great actors involved

- Intriguing plot


Do all those make a good game? we don't know yet but there are already reasons to believe something great might come out of them. On the contrary, Piss-poor arguments like "it's gonna be a walking simulator" are based on nothing but being salty about Kojima, Sony or both.
 
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How do you know that it won't be a walking simulator?

What if it's walking simulator, but so amazingly done, that simply walking around is better gaming experience than anything else before?
 
I once played & loved MGS 2 on hard difficulty, fighting against 12 Metal Gears at the end with Raiden. I also played & loved MGS 3 multiple times (& methodically completed MGS4 as well). So cut the cr*p, i.e. understanding the difference between lore & inconsequential convoluted nonsense is why I jumped off the Kojima train a long time ago. As Kojima dug deeper & deeper into narrative shite, his most ardent defenders could always be counted upon to screech "haters!" at those of us who smelt the coffee.

Thanks for confirming my post, though. My advice? Go & fry an egg, i.e. I'm certain you'll find something to "connect" & understand when gazing at that frying pan. The rest of us will just shrug & move on.
Nah, he's right. You're hating pretty hard.
 
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The novelty of the engrish terrible writing of the 90's japan PSX games has long been gone, and nowhere near as entertaining as it used to be which gave the MGS series is't starting fanbase and became known for it over time.

It is very likely Kojimas poor plot and storytelling will hurt this title in the era of modern gaming. Kojima showed that he also had to be kept in check during the production of some MGS games as well, and he apparently has complete control over death stranding which is more worrying than anything.
 
The novelty of the engrish terrible writing of the 90's japan PSX games has long been gone, and nowhere near as entertaining as it used to be which gave the MGS series is't starting fanbase and became known for it over time.

It is very likely Kojimas poor plot and storytelling will hurt this title in the era of modern gaming. Kojima showed that he also had to be kept in check during the production of some MGS games as well, and he apparently has complete control over death stranding which is more worrying than anything.
Man, your argument loses a lot of steam now that RE2 remake is out.

Because that was also a game that suffered from the disconnect between Japan and the rest of the world, but Capcom proved they knew how to do it justice.

Safe to say Kojima Productions is up to the task as well... And most of the problems you mention regarding plot stem from the fact that Kojima had to integrate canon developed nearly 30 years ago in the MGS franchise. No such shackles here...
 
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Man, your argument loses a lot of steam now that RE2 remake is out.

Because that was also a game that suffered from the disconnect between Japan and the rest of the world, but Capcom proved they knew how to do it justice.

Safe to say Kojima Productions is up to the task as well... And most of the problems you mention regarding plot stem from the fact that Kojima had integrate canon developed nearly 30 years ago in the MGS franchise. No such shackles here...
I have no idea what you're talking about and it reads like you're responding to someone else.

The MGS franchise has been shaky since MGS PSX and constant checks were on Kojima from then on for the rest of the series. It's not just MGS either, a lot of issues people have with games Kojima is involved in are MOSTLY because of Kojima. From plot or gameplay ideas.

Kojima name shouldn't have the pedigree it has. A fully controlled title that is Death Stranding with from what I've been researching, no checks and balances will likely hurt this game based on Kojimas actual track record that people like to ignore for some reason. I know that western fans love separating the company from the individual when it comes to japanese devs but that's extremely flawed.
 
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Nah, he's right. You're hating pretty hard.
Tbh the word "hater" should probably be expunged from gaming discussions when we're talking about people (myself in this instance) who've infested money & time into playing & completing games. When I spend 20 hours of my life in MGS 4, I reckon I have the right to criticize the stuff I didn't enjoy/or which was detrimental to the whole experience without being labelled a mindless "hater".

That's just my opinion.
 

Terenty

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The MGS franchise has been shaky since MGS PSX and constant checks were on Kojima from then on for the rest of the series. It's not just MGS either, a lot of issues people have with games Kojima is involved in are MOSTLY because of Kojima. From plot or gameplay ideas.
Could you elaborate a bit? What constant checks and which projects with kojima's involvement suffered because of him?
 

Neo_GAF

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the last few games from kojima werent good.
mgs peace walker sucked, mgs ground zeroes and phantom pain were just plain bad games. gameplaywise, the last game was good, but the story was just shit.
afghanistan and zaire were great locations but there was always not that much to do nor was there lot of variety.
you just get the same impression of the death stranding trailers.

i started to doubt kojima since metal gear solid:rising didnt make it and got outsourced to platinum(platinum did a wonderful job!)

i think there was a reason why we as the public/gamer did not get all the information why kojima got fired, but eventually i get more and more the feeling it is similar to nintendo/rare=

rare started to crumble, which is why nintendo got rid of them (have a look how literally nothing cool came out after ms acquired the studio)

the same goes with konami and kojima: kojima took too much time, effort and money to create his games the same goes for the quality of his games. mgs 1-4 were great games, everything afterwards just wasnt anything you would expect from kojima.