I don't think Dragon's Crown is very good.

finalhour

Member
I really enjoyed DC overall, but there was one little thing that just annoyed me to no end. It would always seem that after running a level, the loot I would get would be one or two levels higher than what I could use.

So would end up in this loot shuffle, where after each mission I would have to go back to the loot I got from the last mission and upgrade my character with that, and then save my new loot for later. I just seemed like pointless inventory management. I would've preferred if they just gave you loot at your own level, or relaxed the gear restrictions in general. It was a little thing, but in a game so focused on loot grinding it really irked me after hours of playing. I wouldn't have minded if it was only the occasional piece that was higher level, but it seemed to happen every run.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
My GotY 2013. Couldn't disagree more with OP.
I think if you look at DC as a brawler, yeah I can see the disappointment.

However, if you look it as an action loot based RPG it's a little different.

For example, it has skill trees, so starting you're limited to a shallow move pool. As you gain exp. points and skills they gameplay starts getting deeper.

Moreover, you will really need those skills and varied movesets when you start doing harder difficulties, which open up when you beat the previous difficulty.
Actually, as someone who does know what they're talking about, if I were to complain like the OP about the game, I would just talk about it in terms of how a particular enemy in the game reacts to a particular attack because I've actually played the shit out of the game and know it well. I wouldn't state some vague generality about how all hit effects work in the game because each character has a very full move set, each move causes different hit-reaction effects depending on the enemy, and that probably varies with difficulty level too. So it would be fucking stupid to make a vague claims about how Dragon's Crown combat works.

the complaint comes down to the game not doing this one thing in the way the OP wants and that seems arbitrary in light of how many tools you have to destroy everything on screen with ease up until like Inferno difficulty when it starts getting really challenging.
These guys know their shit.

It has the design template of a brawler made by the developers of arguably top 5 best brawler of all time (Shadow Over Mystara).

If I wanted a loot based RPG I'd just get Diablo.
Oh man, don't get me started on Mystara. I played it recently and it doesn't hold up at all. If there's a mage in your party and they cast a spell the entire game freezes, making it really infuriating as a coop partner. Most classes play the same. Controls are stiff. Assets are criminally recycled. The game is just not fun, I actually gave up and let my friends resume without me at some point because I was so goddamn bored.

As for the loot aRPG, well, I think it's done better than Diablo (3) to be honest. Diablo 3's campaign is so brain-dead easy, it's utterly unsatisfying. Balance is out of whack; you start swimming in legendaries so early that they aren't even fun or satisfying to find at some point, until you beat the game and get in adventure mode, then better loot becomes irritatingly rare again unless you start repetitive grinding. Fuck that noise. Dragon's Crown has meaningful progression both in terms of difficulty (easy early on, harder bosses later, where you're forced to play smart and defeat bosses quickly to get the orbs, and of course the harder NG+ and NG++ modes) and loot progression in its campaign instead.

Plus, you know, the fact that combat is still a bit more skill-oriented than a simple gear check makes it far more satisfying.
 

Ultimadrago

Member
I really enjoyed playing the game with couch co-op. The main deal that got to me was going through the same stages 990x each. It seems to be a Vanillaware thing and with the awesome visuals they bring to the table, perhaps that affects how much they can produce per title.

However, it really drains on the mind and muscle memory after tens of hours in repetition. Still dished a crapton of hours in it and am.looking forward to their next original full-length title.
 

ReaperXL7

Member
For me, Dragons Crown is a modern day Golden Ax with solid RPG mechanics. This is one of the main reasons I enjoy it and I feel it's one of the Vitas strongest games personally.

It also helps that I'm a big fan or Boris Vallejo/Julie Bell art and Vanillaware comes extremely close in a lot of ways to making theirs games art match which is awesome from a Sword and Sorcery setting.
 

sensui-tomo

Member
I'd love to find people to play this with again (and i'd like a ps4 port since i cant play on the big screen really since ps tv doesnt make it look that good, and couch co-op is gone) but I can see why OP had reasons for not liking the game. Its not for everyone (being a big musou fan taught me that much) and it seems the op did give it a try.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
The art style is hideous
I don't like the character designs much, but... this isn't hideous:






and the 3D-combat-with-2d-sprites gameplay died two decades ago for a reason.
I can't even begin to fathom what you just said. 3D combat? Wot?
 
Thing is that Dragon's Crown is the kind of game that would benefit a ton from extra content (stages/enemies/bosses/perhaps even classes), seeing as, true to VanillaWare standards, it doesn't have a lot of them to begin with.



Hahah, having invested 200+ hours, I can echo the sentiment.



Nice deflect, but that's neither here nor there: the OP very precisely used the term hitstop, which has a precise, different definition than hitstun, so there's no "vagueness". Would you consider doing the mature thing and admitting you confused the two rather than keep the passive agressive petulant act? Seriously, nobody would give a fuck to the mistake if you weren't so adamant of stubbornly trying to deny it.

Edit: Wait, on second re-read, it seems you still don't understand the difference and keep talking about hitstun. Wow.


Pretty plainly stated I don't give a fuck about hit stop when every other hit effect is in the game. I like throwbacks to old beat em ups, but not enough to give a shit about that.

But I must still be confused about how dragon's crown and action games work, i'm sure. unlike the OP who invents problems about a game in his head and then writes about them as if they were objective.


edit: the next paragraph after his bullshit combat complaint is about how the Archer doesn't move vertically fast enough

because the triple dash that cancels everything, that a good Elf player should be using more than walking itself, isn't fast enough. yeah ok lol

but lets focus on hit stop
 

ryushe

Member
The "Lanes" problem is exactly why I dislike this game, Which is a shame because everything else ranges from very good to fantastic, especially after all of its QoL patches.
 
First, a guy makes a LTTP Last of Us thread saying it wasn't all that hot.

Now this?

Agree to disagree.
I recently played through The Last of Us Remastered and it wasn't that hot. It's another Uncharted-like cover based shooter with a lot of exposition; and while functional and somewhat enjoyable at times just wasn't as captivating a story as has been declared these past couple of years.

I liked it alot.

Scott Pilgrim is still my favorite beatemup tho

Oh God so much yes. Off to soundtrack heaven I know.
 
I can agree with most of what you're saying, in general VanillaWare games have the problem where they're beautiful to look at yet the gameplay sorta falls flat.

And I think that Dragon's Crown is one of their better efforts, their other games are even worse in that aspect.
 

Fat4all

Banned
I'm all over the place with DC. There's a lot I absolutely love, but I have a ton of gripes and stickelers with some of the gameplay mechanics and systems.
 

cireza

Member
I tend to agree. There are problems with the gameplay, especially the feedback. And I don't like the levels/hack'n slash aspect of the game.

It would have been a better game for me of it was simply a classic BTA with many pathes to choose from.
 
I've only played the game for a few hours on different progress and kind of share your issues. Probably because of my expectation, I hate looting and felt tedious doing it. Muramasa is a better game without much of DC's problems IMO, also better control, pace(which has its own flaw) and character design.
 
I never seen anyone who claimed otherwise to be honest.

This game is repetitive and dull,like every other Vanillaware game

Oh my God, there are people who agree with me! And I thought nobody could look past the pretty pictures, for some reason.

Never played Dragon's Crown, but after Odin Sphere I'm not touching any other Vanillaware games.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Oh my God, there are people who agree with me! And I thought nobody could look past the pretty pictures, for some reason.

Never played Dragon's Crown, but after Odin Sphere I'm not touching any other Vanillaware games.
That's a condescending thing to say about people who enjoy Dragon's Crown for the gameplay, a game they, you know, actually played...
 
That's a condescending thing to say about people who enjoy Dragon's Crown for the gameplay, a game they, you know, actually played...

I apologize, but people said the same about OS and that's game is a tragedy. I just skim these threads about Vanillaware games to see if some people agree with me.

I can't comment on DC, but as I said, I can't bear to play another Vanillaware game, but if I see people hating OS and then praising DC I might try it one day, so it's not like i'm completely closed to the experience, even if OS is the worst game I've ever played.
 

Yukinari

Member
I think its lame as hell that you have to unlock the online co-op. Castle Crashers just lets you jump into the online. But other than that i kinda like this game.

Also Elf is best girl.
 

Quonny

Member
Yep. I completely agree with the OP. It just doesn't feel right. Like, it's not bad, but it's just "off" enough to be off-putting.
 

DarkKyo

Member
It was interesting for what it was, but I too wanted it to be a lot better than what it ended up being. That said, it was a fun distraction for my friends and I when it came out.
 

DJ_Lae

Member
I think it's a gorgeous game but I'd have to agree with how it felt to play. My biggest issue was that it felt like I was playing every level over and over again and it all turned into a big slog.

I didn't put a ton of time into it (maybe 8-10 hours) but that felt like enough. I wanted to like it more than I did.
 
I apologize, but people said the same about OS and that's game is a tragedy. I just skim these threads about Vanillaware games to see if some people agree with me.

I can't comment on DC, but as I said, I can't bear to play another Vanillaware game, but if I see people hating OS and then praising DC I might try it one day, so it's not like i'm completely closed to the experience, even if OS is the worst game I've ever played.
As someone who has played Odin Sphere and Dragon's Crown, the latter's combat is a massive improvement on the former. Odin Sphere did not have a good combat engine.
 

Spman2099

Member
I don't necessarily agree, but I don't fully disagree either. Or, I guess I should say that I agree with many of your points, but I don't agree with your conclusion.

A core issue I had with the game was my inability to distinguish where my character was when the madness started. That is a real problem, something that should have been deal with before the game released. You were bang on with that one.

The whole clicking on things part of the game is also not a great addition. In general, it just shouldn't have existed. It does nothing to make the game better, it slows the pace of the game, and since it is there you feel (or at least I do) compelled to do it. Bad decision.

The hitstop is a good point, but I don't think it is the end of the world. I feel like attacks don't feel like they have enough impact though. A couple feel a little beefier, but a lot just feel flat. I wish I could articulate this better... I think it has something to do with the animations, and little to do with the sound effects.

That being said, I still think it is a good game. I still enjoyed my time with it. It just isn't as good as something like Guardian Heroes.
 
I can't believe this is the first time I've seen this sentiment - and I agree with it.

There's a lot about DC to like, but it's an extremely flawed game, and a pretty boring 2D brawler.
 
I loved it on PS3. Playing it on the vita for the first time today feels like a new experience to me. Fun game. Simple to learn, while taking skill to master. The music, the artwork, the combat, character variety, and especially the replayability (Labyrinth of Chaos and Tower of Mirages with the crazy loot power-ups) are all great.

I'm hoping it gets a sequel.
 
I like this game but don't love it. Honestly prefer Muramasa, probably because of the setting and enemy designs in that. Game has a great soundtrack from Hitoshi Sakimoto though. DC just gets too repetitive and samey after a while.

My fave Vanillaware game is definitely GrimGrimoire anyway. That game has both great gameplay and great visual design (as well as surprisingly good story).
 

Parallacs

Member
I would put Muramasa as one of my favorite games of all time. Learning to juggle the three blades and flying all over the screen is so much fun.

But DC is just a disappointment. The music doesn't grab me like Muramasa and the game structure is annoying. Add to that the fact that I have a hard time finding my character in the mess.

Odin Sphere is even more surprising. That game was instantly unlikable (I played it just a few months back).
 

15strong

Member
The problem is you just end up playing the same 9 levels over and over. Unless I missed something. The gameplay was fun but I need more levels and exploration to keep me going.
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
Pretty with shallow gameplay is vanillaware's MO
Dragon's Crown isn't Princess Crown. Things have matured on the depth side a lot in comparison to Vanillaware's early efforts.

You can get by with shallow in DC, but it does offer more than that. It's definitely its own beast compared to something like Final Fight.

Can't stunlock an enemy with a generic combo? Be ready to dodge. Or have a secondary weapon primed to super your way out of danger etc.

Throwing is great crowd control as well.

Hit and run, using teamwork to sneak in opportunistic hits also viable alternatives to running in and mashing the attack button.
 
As someone who has played Odin Sphere and Dragon's Crown, the latter's combat is a massive improvement on the former. Odin Sphere did not have a good combat engine.

Good to know. I might try it one day, if I ever get a PS3, but my main problem with OS is that all you do in the game is run in circles for 20 hours. Is the level design in DC as paltry as OS?
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
Good to know. I might try it one day, if I ever get a PS3, but my main problem with OS is that all you do in the game is run in circles for 20 hours. Is the level design in DC as paltry as OS?

Don't necessarily need a PS3 for it. You could get the Vita version and a PSTV relatively cheap.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Good to know. I might try it one day, if I ever get a PS3, but my main problem with OS is that all you do in the game is run in circles for 20 hours. Is the level design in DC as paltry as OS?
It's not quite like that, no. But I don't know if it'll be up to your standards still.

There are 9 main maps, with 2 paths each. The first time you play you'll do the "A" path, with a boss. Then return to the town, level up, adjust gear etc. and do the next one (or retry one you already cleared for XP/loot if you want). After clearing all 9, you will need to redo the 9 maps again but this time their "B" path (you switch path really early into each level), which is usually pretty different in terms of background, design, etc. (in short not just a palette swap of the level) and a different boss. So a total of 18 unique levels with 18 bosses (+ the final boss). You can also later chain these maps without returning to town, the more maps you clear in a row the better your XP, gold and loot bonuses are.

But, if you want to do all the minor side-objectives, or if you struggle against a boss and need to grind, you might need to repeat some levels. So it's still "repetitive" in some way. It's a mix of a brawler with an RPG, not a Metroidvania, so don't expect that.

You also later unlock a random dungeon (made of a mix of backgrounds and enemy placement and random bosses too) which gives unique loot, and after clearing a couple of layers of those you get a secret boss who's really hard.

Some have complained that the gameplay is too repetitive still. Personally I don't mind at all. Few games aren't repetitive when you think about it. It's not that much different than Diablo in terms of repetitiveness, and at least the combat is good and requires some moderate amount of skill, especially in later levels (whereas D3 is so brain-dead you can hold R2 to win for 100% of the campaign and only start getting a mild challenge in post-game), plus, all brawlers/beat-em-ups are repetitive too, with far worse in terms of recycled assets. The RPG elements and looting help mix things up, and the core combat and skill customization is tons of fun.
 

ZangBa

Member
I feel it's not very good either and I love the genre, Streets of Rage 2 in particular might be my favorite game of all time.

I don't know how to explain why I don't like it much, I just remember not having much fun playing it, and I wasn't a fan of the stage design and repetition. I think the focus on ARPG mechanics was a negative for me.

Not a huge fan of the art style, but it wasn't really a factor for how I felt about playing it. I don't know, I'd rather just play a lot of other beat 'em ups.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
I have to say, I find it amazing that fans of beat-em-ups claim Dragon's Crown is "too repetitive". I mean... I can't think of any brawler that's less repetitive than DC. I can understand not caring for the RPG elements but the repetitive argument only works if you aren't already a fan of brawlers to begin with.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
I'm overwhelmed at the detailed analyzing OP went into with the game.

I usually just pick my party, and wade into the fray with my weapon swinging. Very repetitious, but addicting fun for me. Definitely more then most side scrolling brawlers.
 
I have to say, I find it amazing that fans of beat-em-ups claim Dragon's Crown is "too repetitive". I mean... I can't think of any brawler that's less repetitive than DC. I can understand not caring for the RPG elements but the repetitive argument only works if you aren't already a fan of brawlers to begin with.
100% truth.

Good to know. I might try it one day, if I ever get a PS3, but my main problem with OS is that all you do in the game is run in circles for 20 hours. Is the level design in DC as paltry as OS?
I'd say the level design is a small step up. Not significant, though.
 

striferser

Huge Nickleback Fan
I have to say, I find it amazing that fans of beat-em-ups claim Dragon's Crown is "too repetitive". I mean... I can't think of any brawler that's less repetitive than DC. I can understand not caring for the RPG elements but the repetitive argument only works if you aren't already a fan of brawlers to begin with.
True.
Most brawler are repetitive, but most of them are pretty short.
DC looting and skill system make it better than most beat em up since i can make different build.
 

The Boat

Member
I gave it a go for 3 or 4 hours, couldn't get into it. The movement and mechanics just never clicked, felt like a very average beat-em-up with other average stuff thrown in.
 
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