Support NeoGAF

[Pagusas]

I've decided to try reading through all the Spider-Man comics and see what I've missed.

Some background:

1. I've never read any comics before.
2. I'm starting with this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AAJQVBS/?tag=neogaf0e-20

3. I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing, so I'm hoping I'll find some guides online somewhere to help guide me along the Spider-man journey after this "masterworks" starter.

So let's get started! I'm not sure how often people post threads like this where they go through each and every book and post their thoughts, but at worst I can use it as my own personal notebook for this experience.

------------------------------------------------------------------

#000 - Amazing Fantasy "Introducing Spider Man" (curious no hyphen in this first Spider-Man title, even though Spider-Man uses the hyphen in his own text bubble)

1. Right of the bat I'm completely shocked that the whole origin story is a single comic.
2. Spider-Man creates his signature suite without any fanfare or anything, it just appears in one panel and done, no cool setup for it, no crafting it, nope its just there instantly.
2a. Spider-Man's costume has eye holes! They look crazy silly. Hope this goes away fast.
3. Cool to see they actually do show he's using web shooters though!
4. The whole Uncle Ben dying thing? Yeah, that's basically 1 page of said comic, and that's its. And it's a home invasion attack?? What the heck, movies dedicate a whole section of the film to this, and we don't even get anything more than a one pager on
5. The whole "with Great power there must also come great responsibility" is in the very last panel, not said by any character!? All this time I thought Aunt Mae or Ben said it, but nope, its just a narrative last panel said by no one!
6. No Oscorp at all, the spider was just from a random science exhibit??

If I was scoring this, which I'm not sure I should get in the habit of doing, but I will for kicks and giggles: 5/10 (10 points for introducing an icon of a character, -5 points for everything else)

Overall, I am shocked by how badly drawn and written this legendary first comic is for Spiderman. I recognize how old it is, but still, everything is happening so quickly with no spacing/timing or feeling of substance. I was excited to start a comic journey into this character thinking it might flesh out lots of details that the movies have no time for, so far its the exact opposite, everything is rushed and lacks any character building at all. Uncle Ben is just stereotypical Cartoon dad for all of a few panels before his death. Remember I am 100% blind to comics so I have no clue how this story unfolds, all I have for reference is all the Sony movies and basic knowledge of Spider-Man from pop culture. It is interesting though seeing this very generic, rushed story and knowing an icon comes from it, I just don't see how that happened yet. Here's hoping the next issue sheds some light!

Not sure if I'm allowed to post snippet images of the book for conversation/review, or if that's a copyright violation/against Gaf TOS. Anyone know if I can? That would make each of these writeup's I do more visual.

 

[AJUMP23]

Go get'em Tiger.

 

[Sub_Level]

I'll be surprised if you actually stick with this. Tried doing this with Xmen and got fatigued after 40 or so issues.

The 1960s comics are definitely entertaining at times. The women characters are often so useless lmao

 

[A.Romero]

You have to keep in mind that a lot of the backstory is retconned several times over the decades. Oscorp didn't exist in the beginning for example so the spider accident couldn't have happened there. I mean, they didn't plan 50 years of comics in advance and over time they have added new stuff

Spoiler: Spoiler

like Peter's parents being spies or the relation that Spider man has to spider totems

Later on as new series develop they would re arrange the origins story as well to include more stuff. They also insert new things when characters talk about their past.

If you really want to get into Spider man I'd recommend going through the story archs that are more relevant. Other than that it's just a waste of time because of the low quality (compared to today's standards) that you will find.

 

[Pagusas]

Go get'em Tiger.

Thank you!

I'll be surprised if you actually stick with this. Tried doing this with Xmen and got fatigued after 40 or so issues.

The 1960s comics are definitely entertaining at times. The women characters are often so useless lmao

I'd be surprised too! But I'm just going to do one a day between two meetings I have, hopefully I'll make good progress! Should only take like 3 years to do all of them right?

You have to keep in mind that a lot of the backstory is retconned several times over the decades. Oscorp didn't exist in the beginning for example so the spider accident couldn't have happened there. I mean, they didn't plan 50 years of comics in advance and over time they have added new stuff

Spoiler: Spoiler

like Peter's parents being spies or the relation that Spider man has to spider totems

Later on as new series develop they would re arrange the origins story as well to include more stuff. They also insert new things when characters talk about their past.

If you really want to get into Spider man I'd recommend going through the story archs that are more relevant. Other than that it's just a waste of time because of the low quality (compared to today's standards) that you will find.

Very insightful. My goal isn't purely entertainment though, its to understand the character and comic book structure more, along with get a glimpse of how cultural changes appeared in media over the years. Kinda a time capsule journey a bit? Other than James Bond and Doctor Who, I don't know of too many media franchise that span sooooo many years like Comics do, and I've ignored them for so long in my media studios, I figured Spider-Man is a great one to research. Plus its kinda fun comparing how it started vs how it is now.

 

[A.Romero]

Thank you!

I'd be surprised too! But I'm just going to do one a day between two meetings I have, hopefully I'll make good progress! Should only take like 3 years to do all of them right?

Very insightful. My goal isn't purely entertainment though, its to understand the character and comic book structure more, along with get a glimpse of how cultural changes appeared in media over the years. Kinda a time capsule journey a bit? Other than James Bond and Doctor Who, I don't know of too many media franchise that span sooooo many years like Comics do, and I've ignored them for so long in my media studios, I figured Spider-Man is a great one to research. Plus its kinda fun comparing how it started vs how it is now.

That's a great idea and in that case you made a very good choice of medium and character. Spidey has been my fav since I was a kid (I was introduced to the character by an animated TV show where he was roommates with Starfire and Iceman, lol) and it's a very well developed character. They successfully created a very deep character that is flawed in many ways but still a good person and great hero.

I have tried reading old issues now that they can be found online without charge but didn't have the patience to go over everything. As with all media it has been refined over the years and, as you have discovered, older comics do show their age.

Also if you are going for 100% of Spidey comics you will have to jump onto other series. Spidey has been a part of pretty much every major Marvel event in history so a lot of his tales are told in other character's comics like Fantastic Four, Avengers, Xmen and many others. He is probably above Wolverine in the amount of series he gets shoved in. There are websites that have comprehensive lists of the comics. If you don't follow them some stories won't make sense because they span over different comics (Amazing Spider Man, Spider Man, Spider Man 2099, and a huge etc).

Just keep in mind that it won't all make sense and a lot of the stuff is going to be fresh in your mind so you will be confronted with a lot of retconning but I don't think it can be done better considering the length of time his comics have been running.

 

[kunonabi]

The best part of reading the old comics is noticing how off people's memories are and how off-base most adaptations are including Raimi's.

 

[Pagusas]

The best part of reading the old comics is noticing how off people's memories are and how off-base most adaptations are including Raimi's.

I think that's literally the first thing I picked up on. People being all like "ohhh Aunt May is now the one who said "Great power" speech instead of Ben" and now I can be like "Bitch please, neither of them originally said it! It was an omniscient narrator! "

 

[kunonabi]

I think that's literally the first thing I picked up on. People being all like "ohhh Aunt May is now the one who said "Great power" speech instead of Ben" and now I can be like "Bitch please, neither of them originally said it! It was an omniscient narrator! "

It's also funny how little time he spends in high school compared to how much they force it down our throats these days.

 

[sol_bad]

I've been reading the entire Marvel universe from the beginning, up to issue 118 for Spider-Man. The silver age can be a slog to get through if that's all you are reading, if you get bored, I really do suggest jumping forward to a more modern era and then returning to the 60's/70's when you are ready.

If you are using Marvel Unlimited or another digital source for reading you can use this guide. Create a free account and it'll keep track of where you are up to.

Spider-Man Reading Order | Complete Marvel Comics Reading Order

A list of all apperances of Spider-Man who originally appeared in plus biographical information, photo gallary, and more.

cmro.travis-starnes.com

If you are reading physical books, use Peter's site. He lists all the TPBs and hardcovers in chronological order.

Spider-Man Collecting Guide & Reading Order (1963-2018)

The Spider-Man comic books definitive issue-by-issue collecting guide and trade reading order for omnibus, hardcover, and trade paperback collections. Find every issue and appearance!

crushingkrisis.com

In all honesty, if you aren't reading digitally and aren't reading omnibuses, the epics line of books are the best way to read everything through to the 90's.However, you'll notice that Peter hasn't updated the Spider-Man section since 2018.

This is a current list of all Epic books. Two things to note. One, they aren't released in chronological order so you will notice gaps at the moment. Two, some books will be out of print, don't pay over price for books as Marvel does reprint them.

Marvel Ultimate Collection, Complete Epic and Epic Collection lines - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Omar and Kurtis do a live stream every 4 months to announce new epic books and also reprints.

May to August 2022 announcements.

You'll see volume 1 of Spidey is getting reprinted in June.

September to December 2022 announcements.

 

[synchronicity]

Very insightful. My goal isn't purely entertainment though, its to understand the character and comic book structure more, along with get a glimpse of how cultural changes appeared in media over the years. Kinda a time capsule journey a bit? Other than James Bond and Doctor Who, I don't know of too many media franchise that span sooooo many years like Comics do, and I've ignored them for so long in my media studios, I figured Spider-Man is a great one to research. Plus its kinda fun comparing how it started vs how it is now.

Yeah, I like that sort of thing as well. Outside of reading a few comics as a kid, I've never read any, but I could see myself doing something like you're doing, also as a historical study and a witness to the evolution of creative expression and character development through the years.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

OP is a braver man than I.

That's A LOT of ground to cover.

 

[sol_bad]

OP is a braver man than I.

That's A LOT of ground to cover.

It's only 4000 comics, significantly less if you are skipping his appearances in other comics.

 

[BadBurger]

If you manage to stick with it I think it will be most interesting as a new comics reader to witness how the writing trends changed through the decades. Spider-Man began during the hopeful, whimsical silver age. Next up should the darker decade of deconstruction, then the grim and gritty 90's, etc.

I tried this with once but gave up and skipped over the late 60's and most all of the 70's. The writing was just too juvenile and weird. Though the earnestness and overly emotional nature of the characters were funny as an adult - such as times I was positive Peter was about to slap MJ over something trivial.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

It's only 4000 comics, significantly less if you are skipping his appearances in other comics.

My Marvel game is weak, I'm ashamed to admit.

 

[Rest]

Overall, I am shocked by how badly drawn and written this legendary first comic is for Spiderman.

I've dabbled in comics over the years. The art gets better, the writing does not.
I don't know how anyone picks up comics as a kid and continues to read them into adulthood. A good 80% of media is garbage, but it must be closer to 99% with comics, and I don't say that as some snooty fart sniffing pretentious snob. The vast majority of comics are objectively bad, with simple (often stupid) plots, meaningless narratives, and boring rehashing of tired, overused, recycled material.

And the dialog? Oh shit the dialog. I don't know why comic book writers are so afraid of prose, because putting words in people's mouths to block out every bit of information is a stupid, stupid way to convey information to the reader. Putting exposition into dialog is a bad way to explain things in most media, but the regularity which it happens with in comics turns characters from fictional people into emotionally meaningless roadsigns in seconds flat.

When I was a kid, I would read comics and get frustrated that I would gloss over them and just look at the pictures, or skim the text and not absorb anything because I wasn't paying attention to it. I thought that it was some failing in me that I couldn't keep my focus for the short amount of time it took to read a comic book. As an adult I went back to read my old comics and I quickly realized there was never anything wrong with me, it was just that the stuff I was trying to force myself to read was stupendously bad. Really, really bad.

The storytelling forms used in comic books tends to be clumsy, cludgy, crude, overly simple and at times downright stupid. Human kind has millennia of experience in the graceful use of words. It is a well developed art that has been so well analyzed that it has been distilled to a science, with entire books written about it and encyclopedias dedicated to its techniques. Comic book writers use none of this. Comic books are written for children who have just learned to read, and that would be okay, except that some time in the 1980's comic book writers and publishers started pretending that their products are intended for adults.

Now, lying to your consumer isn't a fundamentally terrible thing. Most entities that sell things do it to varying degrees, most consumers are aware of it. The problem is that comic books believe their own shit, and want you to, too. The pinnacle of comic books is supposed to be The Watchmen, which reviewers and retrospectors gush over and say "look, see! Comics are literature!" This high point of comic books takes way too long to tell way too little story, it attempts to provide commentary on social issues and "American imperialism" but doesn't say anything new or interesting or even insightful about the well worn subject matter it ploddingly retreads over. It introduces way too many characters and only manages to make one of the them likable and one of them memorable.

The Watchmen's good points are that it tells a logical narrative that makes sense and comes to a neat conclusion, the characters have human motives and relatable interactions with each other and the plot, and the dialog isn't bad. That's right, what is supposed to make this the best of the best of comics, the mechanism that this series is supposed to use to singlehandedly elevate comic books to the level of literature is that is has a passable narrative. That's it. That's all. Telling a decent story is what is supposed to make this comic great.

This post, this one I just wrote; this unnecessary, needlessly wordy, overly verbose useless shitpost; this unneeded teardown of a widely loved medium on a forum I expect will flame me for attacking its subject; this stupid, pointless wall of words that I should delete now instead of clicking the "post reply" button; this mental diarrhea full of pointless scorn for a subject that I actually don't even dislike is better than any comic I have ever read. If you're reading it, it's very likely better than any comic you've ever read. It tells a better narrative with more force and more emotion and will keep your interest with greater effect than a random comic that you will pick up off a wall at a comic book store because comic books are just that bad.

And with all that said:

Don't let any of the preceding deter you. You'll probably have an okay time reading Spider-Man until you get bored with it and stop. Have fun and try not to focus too much on its shortcomings, because it's really not worth the energy.

 

[sol_bad]

You don't like comics at all and 80% of media is garbage, but you aren't a sniffing pretentious snob. ok!!!

Can't you put a post like this in the comic thread or in the thread that rags on comics? Just let Pagusas enjoy doing what he is doing and potentially start a new hobby.

 

[Rest]

You don't like comics at all and 80% of media is garbage, but you aren't a sniffing pretentious snob. ok!!!

You mean to tell me that if you listen to music you never skip a track? You like every song from every artist in every genre ever released? You would listen to the music of junior high garage bands and love it just as much as your favorite song by you favorite artist?

You want me to believe you've never changed the channel on a TV because you weren't interested in what was on? You finished every book you ever read? You beat every video game you ever played? You sat through ever movie you ever put on?

You want me to accept the idea that you like comics and books and paintings and plays and music to the same depth and enthusiasm as spoken word poetry and death metal opera and origami?

You like every instance of every kind of output that any human has ever made?

And, I didn't say that I don't like comics at all. They just objectively aren't very good and I'm not going to dig through the trash to find the few specks of quality. I can spend my time better, like shitposting on www.neogaf.com.

 

[Sub_Level]

The best part of reading the old comics is noticing how off people's memories are and how off-base most adaptations are including Raimi's.

Raimi’s seems more based off the 90s cartoon (which was a cool adaptation in its own right, budget aside). Namely:

- MJ is main love interest, not Gwen
- Doc Ock is a man of science with a somewhat tragic origin
- The symbiote suit makes Peter act like a fucking asshole and he almost kills a villain
- Green Goblin throws MJ off a bridge
- All the sweeping tracking shots of Spooderman web slinging down the streets and up again

 

[sol_bad]

You mean to tell me that if you listen to music you never skip a track? You like every song from every artist in every genre ever released? You would listen to the music of junior high garage bands and love it just as much as your favorite song by you favorite artist?

You want me to believe you've never changed the channel on a TV because you weren't interested in what was on? You finished every book you ever read? You beat every video game you ever played? You sat through ever movie you ever put on?

You want me to accept the idea that you like comics and books and paintings and plays and music to the same depth and enthusiasm as spoken word poetry and death metal opera and origami?

You like every instance of every kind of output that any human has ever made?

Of course there are things I don't like but I'd say 80% of media has positive and good points. The garbage media is much smaller. At least for what I have watched/read, not much of a music listener.

 

[Rest]

Of course there are things I don't like but I'd say 80% of media has positive and good points. The garbage media is much smaller. At least for what I have watched/read, not much of a music listener.

I would argue that having good points doesn't make something good as a whole or even worthwhile. There is too much media available to waste time on bad media. Have you ever been in a library and picked up a random book? You should try it and see how many it takes before you find one that you can read a whole page from.

One time I did this and picked up a murder mystery. The writer was trying to make everything very grounded and feel real. The characters had simple motives, the dialog was very pedestrian, and the characters introduced were not the genius wunderkinds that populate most fictional stories, some of them even seemed kind of dumb, and the author even managed to maintain a tone that didn't look down on the characters for being average. What's more, I think the author challenged themself to make the characters really, really real, because some of them had outlooks or thoughts or points of view that were illogical or badly thought out or just didn't make sense from the reader or the protagonist's point of view. All of that is really cool, I admire the intent and the effort and the level of success the author had and especially the fact that they wrote and completed an entire book that way. And you know what?

It was fucking awful. I slogged through about 30 pages and hated every second of it because it was just bad. Not badly done on account of those aspects I just mentioned, just bad as a whole and not worth the time I was spending reading it or the amount of unenjoyment it was causing me to read it.

As a person who reads English, you cannot read every book being published this week. Even if you tried, I would wager you would not like most of it (about four fifths in my experience.) There's no reason to stick it out for stuff that's bad, you can move on.

 

[Nico_D]

I did this myself a few years ago. Starts getting great around "If this be my destiny" (#31)

 

[teezzy]

Pagusas

There's no point in reading the super old stuff or trying to "start from the beginning" really apart from genuine curiosity.

The beauty of these big name characters like Spider-Man or Batman or Superman etc is that they're almost like American folklore at this point. Many different versions but no true canon. Almost like Dracula or Frankenstein. Many story beats remain the same, but people can sorta play loose with the finer details. Nerds cry about authenticity because they're nerds and don't understand this.

I mean Doc Ock calls Spider-Man "super-man" during his debut appearance ffs

This isn't Shakespeare and there's so many Spider-Man series that it's confusing as all hell after a while. Like you could just plow through Amazing Spider-man but then there's Spectacular Spider-Man, Web of Spider-Man, Peter Parker Spider-Man etc

You're best off just reading key arcs via Trade Palerback. Comics are neat like professional wrestling in the sense you can sorta jump in and out and get the just of everything at any point in the story. They're purposefully written that way so any issue could be someone's introduction to comics. Especially in long running series like Spider-Man

Hope that helps and makes sense

 

[EverydayBeast]

Reading every comic ever from a series doesn’t matter first second Spider-Man has great villains (sinister six) comics as a medium are great for artists.

 

[wondermega]

It is a bit fascinating to me, when someone comes in "from out of the cold" (never read any comics before.. how does this happen?) and then starts reading these books that were originally created over half a century ago. OP although it is jarring, I am sure you have an understanding that the way comics/films/media are made now is wholly different than they were so long ago. The purposes were different - these were made ideally for kids, with a grade-school reading level, with no idea that at some point they would be the basis of a mythos for film/TV/etc. Comic books like this, to adults of the time, were seen sharing shelf space with romance and true crime mysteries, and also talking-animal Disney-style comics. And in the early days of the Marvel Universe, they were already trying to put a fresh, more modern spin on what kind of characters would appear in these comics, to strike a more realistic/dimensional chord with the readers (Superman, Batman, and the Flash were basically too fantastic/infallible). Peter Parker had problems with girls, being unpopular in school, he had money problems - stuff like this was never an issue for the "secret identities" of the other mentioned cartoon characters, or at least not in particularly relatable ways. Hell, in the 1960s Batman and Superman were regularly having very surreal sci-fi bent adventures ("Oh look Batman is teaming up with a super-gorilla! Oh wait now he is traveling to Ancient Egypt! Oh wait now he is turning into a giant praying mantis and has a wife and family on Mars!" etc)

And as for the art, also a product of its time. It is hard to look at Ditko and Kirby's art through a modern lens, with no reference - the designs, anatomy, and poses all look crazy, awkward, bombastic in funky ways, probably. Again, comic art at that time was very rooted in a very cartoonish-stylized fashion, look at how some newspaper strips still present characters - VERY stylized and far from reality. Superhero comics of the 50s and 60s were of course closer to reality, but not tooooo much! Lots of shorthand for design, lots of characterization going on. Look at all the outfits that were normal of the day, lots of primary colors, big boots, capes, masks with eyeholes. None of it very practical, more alluding to what would be seen in a fantastic circus performer getup from the 1930s or so.

As time passed, all of these things evolved and changed. Comics started to (slowly) pay more attention to actual anatomy in the characters (and their environments), and somewhat feasible story structure rather than just flashing new characters and concepts left and right in order to attract attention, ,with spastic and whiz-bang dialog and sound effects to carry the reader from page to page. Actual continuity beyond base concepts became a thing, and in a larger world than just each character's immediate vicinity. In hindsight it is a crazy (if fascinating) feat to try and trace back to the source and see how all these things have grown and changed, and become such important flashpoints in our culture.

And without getting too off-topic, it is important to remember that this stuff ISN'T just "junk culture" and it doesn't say anything horrible about us that we hold such things in regard - comics, and fantasy, and video games and etc. This is filling the hole which used to be occupied solely by religion, giving people these (imaginary) stories and characters to try to relate to, these gods to look up to, these inventions which are honestly out-of-reach of reality but if successfully done, the reader can get lost in the story and mythology because they want to feel attached to this empowering, fantastic, meaningful world as well, and having some other kind of control that we haven't got otherwise. I have long thought that at some point down the road in history, there will surely be people who believe that there actually was a real-life Spider-Man or Batman who these characters were based on, as the origins get clouded.

Lastly, to get back to Ditko's art, and the aesthetic - again, it speaks volumes to the original character's design, it showed up fully-formed which is CRAZY. It's easy to look at the design now and feel that it looks awkward in his rendering, but the way everything was tied together (simple story beats, the look of the character, the abilities) - not perfect but it definitely brought something very modern and abstract into the comic world which was not really featured in the limelight before. If you do any research into the earlier stabs at Spider-Man before Ditko was involved, it becomes evident that the character would have failed to get much notice never mind staying power. You have to hand it to the guy's talent that he was able to spin something so compelling out of basically nothing (well, I suppose we will never know the true story how it all got originally assembled, but he and Stan Lee ultimately assembled those pertinent pieces in such a fashion).

 

[Hinedorf]

A lot of Spider Man is weird science

 

[Hinedorf]

I've dabbled in comics over the years. The art gets better, the writing does not.
I don't know how anyone picks up comics as a kid and continues to read them into adulthood. A good 80% of media is garbage, but it must be closer to 99% with comics, and I don't say that as some snooty fart sniffing pretentious snob. The vast majority of comics are objectively bad, with simple (often stupid) plots, meaningless narratives, and boring rehashing of tired, overused, recycled material.

And the dialog? Oh shit the dialog. I don't know why comic book writers are so afraid of prose, because putting words in people's mouths to block out every bit of information is a stupid, stupid way to convey information to the reader. Putting exposition into dialog is a bad way to explain things in most media, but the regularity which it happens with in comics turns characters from fictional people into emotionally meaningless roadsigns in seconds flat.

When I was a kid, I would read comics and get frustrated that I would gloss over them and just look at the pictures, or skim the text and not absorb anything because I wasn't paying attention to it. I thought that it was some failing in me that I couldn't keep my focus for the short amount of time it took to read a comic book. As an adult I went back to read my old comics and I quickly realized there was never anything wrong with me, it was just that the stuff I was trying to force myself to read was stupendously bad. Really, really bad.

The storytelling forms used in comic books tends to be clumsy, cludgy, crude, overly simple and at times downright stupid. Human kind has millennia of experience in the graceful use of words. It is a well developed art that has been so well analyzed that it has been distilled to a science, with entire books written about it and encyclopedias dedicated to its techniques. Comic book writers use none of this. Comic books are written for children who have just learned to read, and that would be okay, except that some time in the 1980's comic book writers and publishers started pretending that their products are intended for adults.

Now, lying to your consumer isn't a fundamentally terrible thing. Most entities that sell things do it to varying degrees, most consumers are aware of it. The problem is that comic books believe their own shit, and want you to, too. The pinnacle of comic books is supposed to be The Watchmen, which reviewers and retrospectors gush over and say "look, see! Comics are literature!" This high point of comic books takes way too long to tell way too little story, it attempts to provide commentary on social issues and "American imperialism" but doesn't say anything new or interesting or even insightful about the well worn subject matter it ploddingly retreads over. It introduces way too many characters and only manages to make one of the them likable and one of them memorable.

The Watchmen's good points are that it tells a logical narrative that makes sense and comes to a neat conclusion, the characters have human motives and relatable interactions with each other and the plot, and the dialog isn't bad. That's right, what is supposed to make this the best of the best of comics, the mechanism that this series is supposed to use to singlehandedly elevate comic books to the level of literature is that is has a passable narrative. That's it. That's all. Telling a decent story is what is supposed to make this comic great.

This post, this one I just wrote; this unnecessary, needlessly wordy, overly verbose useless shitpost; this unneeded teardown of a widely loved medium on a forum I expect will flame me for attacking its subject; this stupid, pointless wall of words that I should delete now instead of clicking the "post reply" button; this mental diarrhea full of pointless scorn for a subject that I actually don't even dislike is better than any comic I have ever read. If you're reading it, it's very likely better than any comic you've ever read. It tells a better narrative with more force and more emotion and will keep your interest with greater effect than a random comic that you will pick up off a wall at a comic book store because comic books are just that bad.

And with all that said:

Don't let any of the preceding deter you. You'll probably have an okay time reading Spider-Man until you get bored with it and stop. Have fun and try not to focus too much on its shortcomings, because it's really not worth the energy.

Got anything nice to say?

 

[FunkMiller]

I've dabbled in comics over the years. The art gets better, the writing does not.
I don't know how anyone picks up comics as a kid and continues to read them into adulthood. A good 80% of media is garbage, but it must be closer to 99% with comics, and I don't say that as some snooty fart sniffing pretentious snob. The vast majority of comics are objectively bad, with simple (often stupid) plots, meaningless narratives, and boring rehashing of tired, overused, recycled material.

And the dialog? Oh shit the dialog. I don't know why comic book writers are so afraid of prose, because putting words in people's mouths to block out every bit of information is a stupid, stupid way to convey information to the reader. Putting exposition into dialog is a bad way to explain things in most media, but the regularity which it happens with in comics turns characters from fictional people into emotionally meaningless roadsigns in seconds flat.

When I was a kid, I would read comics and get frustrated that I would gloss over them and just look at the pictures, or skim the text and not absorb anything because I wasn't paying attention to it. I thought that it was some failing in me that I couldn't keep my focus for the short amount of time it took to read a comic book. As an adult I went back to read my old comics and I quickly realized there was never anything wrong with me, it was just that the stuff I was trying to force myself to read was stupendously bad. Really, really bad.

The storytelling forms used in comic books tends to be clumsy, cludgy, crude, overly simple and at times downright stupid. Human kind has millennia of experience in the graceful use of words. It is a well developed art that has been so well analyzed that it has been distilled to a science, with entire books written about it and encyclopedias dedicated to its techniques. Comic book writers use none of this. Comic books are written for children who have just learned to read, and that would be okay, except that some time in the 1980's comic book writers and publishers started pretending that their products are intended for adults.

Now, lying to your consumer isn't a fundamentally terrible thing. Most entities that sell things do it to varying degrees, most consumers are aware of it. The problem is that comic books believe their own shit, and want you to, too. The pinnacle of comic books is supposed to be The Watchmen, which reviewers and retrospectors gush over and say "look, see! Comics are literature!" This high point of comic books takes way too long to tell way too little story, it attempts to provide commentary on social issues and "American imperialism" but doesn't say anything new or interesting or even insightful about the well worn subject matter it ploddingly retreads over. It introduces way too many characters and only manages to make one of the them likable and one of them memorable.

The Watchmen's good points are that it tells a logical narrative that makes sense and comes to a neat conclusion, the characters have human motives and relatable interactions with each other and the plot, and the dialog isn't bad. That's right, what is supposed to make this the best of the best of comics, the mechanism that this series is supposed to use to singlehandedly elevate comic books to the level of literature is that is has a passable narrative. That's it. That's all. Telling a decent story is what is supposed to make this comic great.

This post, this one I just wrote; this unnecessary, needlessly wordy, overly verbose useless shitpost; this unneeded teardown of a widely loved medium on a forum I expect will flame me for attacking its subject; this stupid, pointless wall of words that I should delete now instead of clicking the "post reply" button; this mental diarrhea full of pointless scorn for a subject that I actually don't even dislike is better than any comic I have ever read. If you're reading it, it's very likely better than any comic you've ever read. It tells a better narrative with more force and more emotion and will keep your interest with greater effect than a random comic that you will pick up off a wall at a comic book store because comic books are just that bad.

And with all that said:

Don't let any of the preceding deter you. You'll probably have an okay time reading Spider-Man until you get bored with it and stop. Have fun and try not to focus too much on its shortcomings, because it's really not worth the energy.

’The’ Watchmen, eh? You sound like an expert.

 

[Hinedorf]

I've decided to try reading through all the Spider-Man comics and see what I've missed.

Some background:

1. I've never read any comics before.
2. I'm starting with this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AAJQVBS/?tag=neogaf0e-20

3. I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing, so I'm hoping I'll find some guides online somewhere to help guide me along the Spider-man journey after this "masterworks" starter.

So let's get started! I'm not sure how often people post threads like this where they go through each and every book and post their thoughts, but at worst I can use it as my own personal notebook for this experience.

------------------------------------------------------------------

#000 - Amazing Fantasy "Introducing Spider Man" (curious no hyphen in this first Spider-Man title, even though Spider-Man uses the hyphen in his own text bubble)

1. Right of the bat I'm completely shocked that the whole origin story is a single comic.
2. Spider-Man creates his signature suite without any fanfare or anything, it just appears in one panel and done, no cool setup for it, no crafting it, nope its just there instantly.
2a. Spider-Man's costume has eye holes! They look crazy silly. Hope this goes away fast.
3. Cool to see they actually do show he's using web shooters though!
4. The whole Uncle Ben dying thing? Yeah, that's basically 1 page of said comic, and that's its. And it's a home invasion attack?? What the heck, movies dedicate a whole section of the film to this, and we don't even get anything more than a one pager on
5. The whole "with Great power there must also come great responsibility" is in the very last panel, not said by any character!? All this time I thought Aunt Mae or Ben said it, but nope, its just a narrative last panel said by no one!
6. No Oscorp at all, the spider was just from a random science exhibit??

If I was scoring this, which I'm not sure I should get in the habit of doing, but I will for kicks and giggles: 5/10 (10 points for introducing an icon of a character, -5 points for everything else)

Overall, I am shocked by how badly drawn and written this legendary first comic is for Spiderman. I recognize how old it is, but still, everything is happening so quickly with no spacing/timing or feeling of substance. I was excited to start a comic journey into this character thinking it might flesh out lots of details that the movies have no time for, so far its the exact opposite, everything is rushed and lacks any character building at all. Uncle Ben is just stereotypical Cartoon dad for all of a few panels before his death. Remember I am 100% blind to comics so I have no clue how this story unfolds, all I have for reference is all the Sony movies and basic knowledge of Spider-Man from pop culture. It is interesting though seeing this very generic, rushed story and knowing an icon comes from it, I just don't see how that happened yet. Here's hoping the next issue sheds some light!

Not sure if I'm allowed to post snippet images of the book for conversation/review, or if that's a copyright violation/against Gaf TOS. Anyone know if I can? That would make each of these writeup's I do more visual.

If you take a liking to the older comics and reading Marvel in general I couldn't recommend Marvel Unlimited more, within a couple hours of reading it pays for itself for a year. Much like how you're starting with Spider Man I read almost the entire collection of Dr. Strange all the way back from those very early days.

I recommend this as somebody who's been a subscriber for several years. They typically keep it 6 months behind what they're selling digitally/on the shelves in whatever is the current comic event so unless you're anal about getting the new stuff every Wednesday you'll have more content than you can read in a lifetime

Marvel Unlimited | Over 30,000 Comics. One All-New App!

All-New. All-Different. Experience Marvel’s Infinity Comics available only on Marvel Unlimited. Plus gain instant access to over 30,000 digital comics with unlimited downloads. Start your free trial today!

www.marvel.com

 

[sol_bad]

If you take a liking to the older comics and reading Marvel in general I couldn't recommend Marvel Unlimited more, within a couple hours of reading it pays for itself for a year. Much like how you're starting with Spider Man I read almost the entire collection of Dr. Strange all the way back from those very early days.

I recommend this as somebody who's been a subscriber for several years. They typically keep it 6 months behind what they're selling digitally/on the shelves in whatever is the current comic event so unless you're anal about getting the new stuff every Wednesday you'll have more content than you can read in a lifetime

Marvel Unlimited | Over 30,000 Comics. One All-New App!

All-New. All-Different. Experience Marvel’s Infinity Comics available only on Marvel Unlimited. Plus gain instant access to over 30,000 digital comics with unlimited downloads. Start your free trial today!

www.marvel.com

It's only 3 months behind physical released now.

 

[Rest]

Got anything nice to say?

I'm sorry you like garbage.

 

[Scotty W]

Good luck op, I once read some ancient Superman novels and they were hugely entertaining.

 

[Raven117]

That’s a lot if reading OP. I’m not going to tell you what to do with your tone, but is this really a good way to use your literary time doing?

 

[Pagusas]

That’s a lot if reading OP. I’m not going to tell you what to do with your tone, but is this really a good way to use your literary time doing?

Its more a between my Monday and Wednesday meetings at work when I'm waiting on the next conference call to start that I'm doing this. Before that time was filled with commuting from one building to another, but now I'm 100% remote I can use that 30 minutes to do this pet project. I still get a ton of reading done a year, between my kindle and audbile subscription I'm always reading or listening to something (even right now, Book 13 of Expeditionary Force is my work day Jam at the moment). Thats also why I havn't posted Issue 001 update yet, reading it later today.

 

[Raven117]

Its more a between my Monday and Wednesday meetings at work when I'm waiting on the next conference call to start that I'm doing this. Before that time was filled with commuting from one building to another, but now I'm 100% remote I can use that 30 minutes to do this pet project. I still get a ton of reading done a year, between my kindle and audbile subscription I'm always reading or listening to something (even right now, Book 13 of Expeditionary Force is my work day Jam at the moment). Thats also why I havn't posted Issue 001 update yet, reading it later today.

You don't have to explain yourself to me! But yeah, that does seem to make sense.

To me personally, I just couldn't fathom using so much quality reading time (Im talking like that one hour before bed kinda time), to read comic books and not try and tackle more weighty pursuits. But again, that's just me (and it seems you do that anyway).