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I miss being blown away by new-gen graphics....

zcaa0g

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There is still a ways to go in high poly counts and lighting and shadowing, particularly the latter two.

Beyond that, I still think games lack in atmospheric sounds. Where are the subtle noises of an AC running in a house or other establishment? Where are the wind sounds and ruffling of the leaves on trees from that wind? It seems most sound is around player action than the environment around them itself.
 
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GymWolf

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Jun 11, 2019
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Are you not entertained ?
Still the most miracolous game ever made.

Maybe not the best looking game anymore for things like characters or overall texturization, but if you include all the simulation and interaction and crazy level of care for microdetails, it's overall still unbeaten (probably until gta6 is gonna come out)
 
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CamHostage

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Have the sony engines (decima, nd engine, sucker punch engine, etc.) Any of these features or something comparable?!

We usually don't hear much about existing game engines until new games using those engines reveal what the teams are working on. There's no reason to truck Decima out to GDC, for instance, to show off what it can do when nobody else but Sony teams can use what it can do. (Technically, Sony has allowed some developers like Supermassive or Kojipro to use Decima, but those were special occasions and the games were for Sony platforms anyway.)

Specifically though, no, neither Sony or Microsoft have announced any kind of virtualized micropolygon geometry "infinite polys" tech. Similarly, Unity Engine and CryEngine and Lumberyard and other technologies have not, to my knowledge, announced anything like Nanite either. (If we're just talking Lumen, that's a little bit of a different story since that incorporates a lot of different aspects of lighting, and there are many third-party systems for UE and elsewhere that would be in competition, more or less.) What Epic has introduced here has been swirling in the ether for a while beforehand (John Carmack was talking about virtualized geometry in concept over 10 years ago and that inspired Epic to invest in it,) and maybe other teams have had something in the works similar in anticipation of these new platforms (or are quickly working to rip it off, maybe?), but so far there's not been any direct announcements in response to Nanite or Lumen from other technology providers that I'm aware of?

...That all said, developers have to use it, and even though Unreal Engine 5 is staggering technology conceptually, developers are still trying to figure out how to use it in a game; even Epic Games is still working out where and how best to use it.

Lumen is I would assume a no-brainer: if you're working on next-gen only releases, you like this lighting solution over what you're used to or offered elsewhere, and your performance tests are in line with expectations, then go Lumen. If you also want to include past-gen in the plan, I don't know much about the fallback method for Lumen? I know with Nanite, you can build default states of LOD on your polygonal models to have baseline previous support, I assume Lumen is the same that you'd just do build and test for both methods, but if you really did Lumen right, that seems like it'd be a lot of work to do over again.

Nanite, it has some major drawbacks that you'd have to be aware of before using it. It cannot be deformed (bend or stretched or offset ala grasses,) you cannot set an opacity/transparency, Raytracing has limitations when used on Nanite objects, and you cannot use Forward Rendering or do Vertex Paint on Instances. Also, it's next-gen only. The good news is, it's really easy to designate a model for using Nanite, and developers can play around to figure out where best to use it versus other traditional (or novel) methods. But if you looked at either of those UE5 demos from Epic Games and though, "Ah ha, graphics is solved!!", maybe step it back a bit...

There are cases where amazing technology gets introduced in an engine and shown off in action via demos but then never really lives up to the promise. Remember UE4's own Sparse Voxel Octree Global Illumination lighting system? That got dropped before the technology was finalized (even though other technology partners went on to add versions of SVOGI in their tech.) I don't think anything like that will happen with Nanite or Lumen, it's already so solid and effective (and has already been deployed on a console, which is important,) and should just be a general good even if it in real life it may or may not make games as amazing as we imagine. Sometimes tech doesn't work out like it looks like it would in demos, though. For example, Unity introduced something called ECS (Entity Component System) as part of its DOTS system, and you may remember three years ago they had that cool-looking MegaCity demo with a stunning number of detailed objects on screen (it's not the same as Nanite, but it is their way of rethinking how game data is used to scale up what gamers see.) Looked great, they even ported the demo to a phone, but then come a few years later, you don't see massively detailed worlds (and behind the scenes, developers have apparently not been aggressively using this tech,) and in the most recent Unity 2021 builds, ECS is not compatible with where Unity is headed in the future.
So, this was a dead end? Stuff happens.

 
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Are you not entertained ?
Looks good, but I think it could look even better. You'll look back at RDR2 one day and be like... that's weird, it looks pretty dated now compared to what we have today.

Also, I'm a firm believer that resolution doesn't automatically make a game look good. Lighting, animation, object density and interactivity are the most important parts of making a game look really good in my opinion. Just taking a last gen game and rendering it in 4K doesn't really make it look like a next gen game.
 
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Rickyiez

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Bruh

3080 won't have enough VRAM to hold those gorgeous, amazingly high detailed UE5 textures. If you really think it can, you're kidding yourself.

It has more "grunt", but it will lack big time when the actual nextgen games come along.
Not this nonsense again . UE5 is VRAM efficient , they have been benchmarking it and it never use more than 6GB on max


 
Mar 13, 2017
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Are you not entertained ?
will RD2 ever get a next gen patch on consoles?

I have it on my 3080 PC but I also have it configured to a VR mod and I'm too stupid to figure how to disable it on the fly to switch back to 2D so its essentially just a VR game for me now on PC
 
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AGRacing

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Law of diminishing returns my friend....

Ratchet has some amazing showcase moments. There are moments in that game with so much sharp movement that can NEVER translate over compressed youtube videos, etc. Later there will be UE5 games that will wow us (I believe)... they just aren't here yet. I think GT7 will be gorgeous too. It's just a shame they're nowhere near launch. Ratchet being there on launch day would have really changed the perception for me.... but at the end of the day it is clear the potential is there.

But I totally agree with you that there wasn't a first wave of showcase launch titles. Im my day the PS1 launch was mind blowing. The 360 launch was mind blowing. Shadowfall had some great moments for PS4 on launch day.... I don't think we will ever see console launches like that again.
 
Oct 26, 2018
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I'd say the last time I was really blown away at home graphics (not from seeing it at an arcade) was SNES. All the mode 7 rotating and scaling in every game was cool. Ya, some Genesis games could do it, but not at the same quality and frequency. And if you were a lucky fuck with a Neo Geo it was nothing special. But combined with SNES audio and it was awesome. SNES had such vibrant colours and basic transparency effects too. There's no way even my brother's Soundblaster 16 had such awesome audio and that thing was probably $100-200 alone.
 
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Trogdor1123

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60fps isn’t new. There were countless 60fps games last gen. Guess last gen 60fps doesn’t matter.
Who said it wasn't new? Who said there wasn't games last gen? There certainly wasn't "countless" 60 fps last gen either.

I am just saying that 60 fps is looking like it might actually become a standard on consoles for the first time in a long time.
 
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scalman

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Devs just forgot what next gen rly is...they just playing catch up game now just raising res and fps... but that doesnt make game any better .
Like from snes to ps1 , ps1 to ps2 , ps2 to ps3 , those where next gen step times...
 
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SF Kosmo

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This happens every gen. The impact is there but it's a little less each time. That's because there's diminishing returns as we increase fidelity.

HD looks leaps and bounds better than 480p. 4K looks a bit better than HD. 8K looks barely noticeably better than 4K unless your face is pressed against the screen.

That same principle applies to the fidelity if game assets as well. And even as we're seeing huge transformative changes in rendering thanks to RT, the fact is we were so good at taking these things that the difference isn't night and day to a lot of people.

So get used to it. Each generational leap in computing power is going to yield smaller and smaller perceptual gains as we close the gap between real time and CGI. Even now games like Ratchet and Clank are not miles apart from the look of a lot of CG films.
 
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Yselacrey00

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I miss the early days of PS4 when they showcased Killzone Shadowfall, DriveClub, The Order 1886, Infamous Second Son, Horizon Zero Dawn, Uncharted 4, The Last of Us Part 2... etc.

Every time they showed something for the PS4, I was floored at how good it all looked.

Now-a-days though it's like... HEY IT LOOKS THE SAME AS A PS4 GAME BUT IT HAS 60FPS!!!! WOW 60FPS! SO NEXT GEN!

I'm so sick of it.

The last time I was blown away by something for the PS5, was when they showed off UE5. That's pretty much it. Everything else just looks like last gen stuff with some extra detail and 4K resolution.

I must confess though, I've stayed away from any videos or screenshots of Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart because I wanna go in with fresh eyes. Hopefully this is the game that really makes me think "Man, now this is what next gen can really do"

What are your thoughts? Is 60fps enough to call it "next gen" or do you really wanna see that graphical leap we've come to expect each new generation even if it has to be 30fps.

If a game looks as good as UE5 demo, I'll gladly play it at 30fps.
So you didn't feel the same.was seeing ratchet? Ratchet for.le.gave me the same effect that killzone did. The last of us doesn't count because that was shown 5 years after PS4 launched.
 
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So you didn't feel the same.was seeing ratchet? Ratchet for.le.gave me the same effect that killzone did. The last of us doesn't count because that was shown 5 years after PS4 launched.
Rift Apart was the best thing I’ve seen to date yes, but there were still issues that I wish weren’t there, but it’s an excellent showcase for what the hardware can do for sure.
 

Klik

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You should check out this guys videos. He makes reshade of some popular simracing games. It really looks realistic.
 
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I completely disagree. Personally I hold a deep hatred for the graphic rush that happened across the last few generations.
The game industry completely pivoted over investing most of their budgets over realistic graphics that would be outdated and look jarring just a few years down the line, at the cost of sacrificing gameplay.
For example look at the last 2 Resident Evil games compared to an earlier title like Resident Evil4. The enemy variation is abysmally lower. Jeez what happened? I’ll tell what happened, the costs to model and animate unique enemy archetypes has spiraled out of control, so the design has to scaled down to keep the art budget within scope.

I hate this trend, and I blame the player who keep demanding for better graphics. If you want cutting edge graphics go watch CG movie I say, or even better a live action one it doesn’t get more photorealistic than that!
Call me crazy but I personally like to play games for the gameplay, and I’m tired of having to stomach limited gameplay variation or even worse abysmally low framerate just because some fake gamer needs to have photorealistic graphics.
Yep my main problem with the current industry
 

KAL2006

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I'm quite happy with what we have now. In fact PS4 Pro still impresses me. I never felt like that in the previous generations. End of PS1 I thought these games don't look as good. Same with PS2 and PS3. But for some reason with PS4 to this day I still can go back and put on early generation games like Killzone Shadowfall let alone something like Red Dead 2 and still be impressed with the graphics. The only think that bothers me with PS4 gen is 30fps which PS5 have now fixed. So playing games like Red Dead 2 level of graphics in 60fps is enough for me.

I think once we get to PS6 or PS7 we will reach a point where we don't need generations anymore and it's all down to budget. We just need the graphics jump into easily including RT like it's nothing while having a complex game world that detailed in 4K and 60fps. Once we have reached that point I don't know what else we can have as budgets will be out of control.
 

KAL2006

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I completely disagree. Personally I hold a deep hatred for the graphic rush that happened across the last few generations.
The game industry completely pivoted over investing most of their budgets over realistic graphics that would be outdated and look jarring just a few years down the line, at the cost of sacrificing gameplay.
For example look at the last 2 Resident Evil games compared to an earlier title like Resident Evil4. The enemy variation is abysmally lower. Jeez what happened? I’ll tell what happened, the costs to model and animate unique enemy archetypes has spiraled out of control, so the design has to scaled down to keep the art budget within scope.

I hate this trend, and I blame the player who keep demanding for better graphics. If you want cutting edge graphics go watch CG movie I say, or even better a live action one it doesn’t get more photorealistic than that!
Call me crazy but I personally like to play games for the gameplay, and I’m tired of having to stomach limited gameplay variation or even worse abysmally low framerate just because some fake gamer needs to have photorealistic graphics.

Agreed the extreme level of detailed graphics has created budget limit where it affects the vision and gameplay for a game.

Take older Final Fantasy games for example on the PS1 generation. We had so many greate settings, towns, villages, art etc because it was cheap to produce pre rendered backgrounds. The scope of the games felt so grand. A remake of Final Fantasy 7 can only handle one location because it's too expensive to have so many enemies, towns and cities. You can argue well western RPGs like The Witcher 3 manage this, but alot of those games have a ton of generic areas and open grasslands and don't have the variety of settings that the old Final Fantasy games had.
 

bender

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I agreed with you.

Gravity Rush is a miracle itself.
 
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Genx3

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Cheap console gamers that think $500 is enough of a budget to build a powerful console in 2020 is the reason we didn't get more impressive HW.
Scalpers were selling consoles for $800 on average so I'm 100% certain that Sony and MS could've sold every single console at $600 with better HW features.

If PS5 & XSX were $600 boxes they could've packed in more Ram and a couple extra TF's.
Imagine a 16TF XSX & 14 TF PS5 with 24 GB's of Ram with more BW. The jump would've been a lot more noticeable for sure since they would've been able to use the extra HP for RT Effects and even higher quality textures.
 

tr1p1ex

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the leaps aren't as noticeable any more. And then on top of that, if you also go up in resolution, the leap is even less noticeable.

also I feel like they chase graphics/graphics power to a fault. IT limits the creativity of games.
 

Hoddi

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the leaps aren't as noticeable any more. And then on top of that, if you also go up in resolution, the leap is even less noticeable.

also I feel like they chase graphics/graphics power to a fault. IT limits the creativity of games.
For rendering quality, I agree. It's in adding more detail that I feel there is much room for improvement. Like the crowds in AC Unity or the small trinkets all over in TLOU2.

I know most people tend to focus on the SSD or GPU in the new consoles but I think many underestimate the massive improvement in CPU grunt that they have. Microsoft has claimed a 4x increase over the previous gen which is roughly like upgrading from a Core 2 Quad (from 2008) to a modern CPU.
 

aclar00

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Hopefully 60fps is the max average cap, aka the sweet spot and 4K stays the high end of the resolution spectrum through next gen (PS6...). Otherwise, at least for consoles, graphics will likely stay fairly stagnant.

I can only image what kind of power would be required for an 8k 160fps experience...but hey, every new gen of tech needs to first have its gimmicks (debatable) moreorless to get you to buy in.
 

KAL2006

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Maybe I'm just getting older or it is diminishing returns. I am playing Horizon for the first time thanks to the 60fps and for a 2017 game I am still blown away. Honestly I don't even need better graphics, work on other things like enemy variety, better level design, more variety in environments etc, for me personally 2017 graphics in 60fps is enough. As long as we get games looking like Horizon and Last of Us 2 running in 60fps I am satisfied. Of course things like level designed restricted from the HDD should also be resolved so we have less going through right caves in games. So to conclude give me Horizon, Red Dead 2 level of graphics in 60fps without level design choices based around HDD and the gen would be enough for me.

Before anyone mentions this I haven't felt like this for a generation ever I have been gaming since the SNES. When PS1 came out I always felt we need 3D graphics. Going from PS1 to PS2 I always felt near the end of generation games looked to boxy, and alot of games are not true 3d (prerendered backgrounds). Then with end of PS2 I felt games were blurry and resolution was low, and finally PS3 games were jaggy and draw distance was not that great. With PS4 the main complaint I had was 30fps games but the look of the games still continue to blow me away, so just upgrading resolution was enough.
 
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Jeeves

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Ever since games first hit the HD era the graphics haven't really jumped up enough to justify a new generation in my opinion. Maybe if today every game looked as good as Dokev does I'd be singing a different tune.
 

martino

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Not this nonsense again . UE5 is VRAM efficient , they have been benchmarking it and it never use more than 6GB on max


i will help you here :
High Poly Static Mesh
  • Triangles: 1,545,338
  • Vertices: 793,330
  • Num LODs: 4
  • Nanite: Disabled
Static Mesh Compressed Packaged Size: 148.95MB

Nanite Mesh
  • Triangles: 1,545,338
  • Vertices: 793,330
  • Num LODs: n/a
  • Nanite: Enabled
Static Mesh compressed package size: 19.64MB
Comparing the Nanite compression from earlier with a size of 19.64MB is 7.6x smaller than the standard Static Mesh compression with 4 LODs.

https://docs.unrealengine.com/5.0/en-US/RenderingFeatures/Nanite/
 
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There's still a ton of area left for improvement, although a lot of it won't show up in screenshots. Physics and just having dynamic worlds is really what is going to impress.
I'm excited for this.

Mark my words, in a couple years we're gonna look back at early PS5 games/Late PS4 games and think they look kinda dull in comparison.

I mean, I was blown away by R&C remake back in 2016, but after playing Rift Apart, R&C looks really bare-bones and basic (this is the same game I thought looked like a CGI film back then).
 

Matt_Fox

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Live streaming game trailers and reveals has also contributed to the negative perception.

E3 and all the big showcases seem determined to output trailers live in pixellated streamovision, and the public are left shaking their heads. A few hours later if you rewatch the now uploaded trailer in 4K it's a whole new visual experience.

Publishers would be far better saying the video is going to be released at 7pm ET and simply uploading it in 4K, rather than actually streaming it live at low quality.
 

Hobbygaming

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Yesterday I played Demon Souls for a few hours and I'm still amazed by the lighting, geometry and assets

Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart really does look like a Pixar film, especially The Fixer setpiece
 
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HR2

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This happens every gen. The impact is there but it's a little less each time. That's because there's diminishing returns as we increase fidelity.

HD looks leaps and bounds better than 480p. 4K looks a bit better than HD. 8K looks barely noticeably better than 4K unless your face is pressed against the screen.

That same principle applies to the fidelity if game assets as well. And even as we're seeing huge transformative changes in rendering thanks to RT, the fact is we were so good at taking these things that the difference isn't night and day to a lot of people.

So get used to it. Each generational leap in computing power is going to yield smaller and smaller perceptual gains as we close the gap between real time and CGI. Even now games like Ratchet and Clank are not miles apart from the look of a lot of CG films.
anyone who has played the ORDER 1886 on base PS4 knows that visuals are not all about photorealism which is a ways off (let alone "dminishing returns")
but about how art direction ties into photorealism. even if we achieve real-life graphics, there is an infinite number of ways to improve on reality (AKA what movies do)
 

SF Kosmo

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anyone who has played the ORDER 1886 on base PS4 knows that visuals are not all about photorealism which is a ways off (let alone "dminishing returns")
but about how art direction ties into photorealism. even if we achieve real-life graphics, there is an infinite number of ways to improve on reality (AKA what movies do)
Yes but there's a difference between being impressed by a game's art direction and that sense of looking at a technological breakthrough that seemed impossible.

Quake was an ugly, brown game, but holy shit was it mind blowing to see in the context of its time. I kind of doubt we'll see a leap like that again.
 

HR2

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the leaps aren't as noticeable any more. And then on top of that, if you also go up in resolution, the leap is even less noticeable.

also I feel like they chase graphics/graphics power to a fault. IT limits the creativity of games.
corporate greed, my friend. There's a tendency to downgrade engines (ACUnity) and lean towards multiplayer games because it's all about the sales figures. why do you think Ubisoft's games look cheaper and more visually lackluster with every new release? why do you think EA refuses to let go of old PCs and release the next-gen version of FIFA?
 
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HR2

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Yes but there's a difference between being impressed by a game's art direction and that sense of looking at a technological breakthrough that seemed impossible.

Quake was an ugly, brown game, but holy shit was it mind blowing to see in the context of its time. I kind of doubt we'll see a leap like that again.
I understand but again I reiterate, a game like The ORDER is a once-in-a-generation game that manages to impress on all fronts
those who think that graphics have reached the point of diminishing returns must blink , look at their surroundings because that is the level of fidelity we will eventually achieve.
how we get there though, is of little importance
it could be a high-end engine, AI-infused graphics, machine-learning, ... but it will be a matter of time not anything else

take a look
 
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DJ Shalad

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1º write an A.I to rip old games to the hard drive
2º the A.I needs to be able to emu, play the game, extract assets, everything
3º A.I will analyze the game, bit by bit, asset by asset and apply
4º improvements (filters) for a quick remasterization or replace textures, assets
5.aº add raytracing & add more polygons to every 3D model
5.bº re-release every gen 5, gen 6, gen 7 game improved, sell them as new
5.cº start with Tokyo Xtreme Racer or Ridge Racer Type 4 ... C´MON!!!!
lazy don't care GIF
Work From Home Reaction GIF
 

SF Kosmo

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I understand but again I reiterate, a game like The ORDER is a once-in-a-generation game that manages to impress on all fronts
those who think that graphics have reached the point of diminishing returns must blink , look at their surroundings because that is the level of fidelity we will eventually achieve.
how we get there though, is of little importance
it could be a high-end engine, AI-infused graphics, machine-learning, ... but it will be a matter of time not anything else

take a look
I understand we have plenty of ground left to cover, that isn't my point. My point is that it takes more and more to reach each successive next step. That's what I mean by diminishing returns.

It used to be if you doubled the power of a system you'd get a dramatically different result. Now, that difference is far less dramatic. It's still there, but we don't see the same kind of quantum leap.

Even comparing The Order to a high end PlayStation game like The Last of Us is not the same kind of leap as Mario World to Mario 64, or even Pitfall to Mario 3.
 
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