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I replayed TLOU2 and I still don't know what to think about it...

TheInfamousKira

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Jul 13, 2020
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Also you....







Sir....when you are saying he um "feels like an action hero" only to then be like "not the hero, but"

Yeaaaaaaa ok pal. Not this but, oh he is this, but lol


He kills Marlene surrendering from his perspective and he lies from his perspective too bud... None of that changes objective facts....



lol I can't man.

You fucking can't make this shit up, in the very post you are saying "not hero but" and then go on to say "establishing a heroic"

At the end of the day, we see him asked to leave, not killed on sight, we see him kill several people unarmed, we see him kill Marlene while she is surrendering, we see him lie to Ellie.

That fucking has NOTHING to do with perspective, those things factually fucking happened sir.

Even to make some "hero" ending, we'd need Joel being attacked as soon as he gets there with the girl and they like "its was a trap THE WHOLE TIME JOEL" lol (evil lolz laugh)

We'd need him to fight off all the armed people, fight Marlene at the end in a fire fight and have her like "I surrender Joel" and Joel being the "good guy" and or "hero" would say some shit like "oh Marlene, we funa head out cuh...OH SHIT" and she tires to kill him and he HAS to kill her back ala Goku fighting Freeza in the classic hero trope bullshit lol

None of that shit is happening sir, like zero.

You should have gotten that hint when he killed an unarmed person begging to live and then LYING about the entire thing to Ellie, none of that sounds like a "hero" type idea

Yes, and as expected, you were too triggered by the word hero to understand the point of the post. Joel himself, the character, feels as though these are justified. He doesn't sit in a corner and have a moral quandary. He views his actions at the right thing. The only thing to do in this situation. The game frames this (from his perspective) as the right thing until the very closing moments of the game.

*My* views on the character have nothing to do with the perspective the story is told from, and that is what I'm referencing, so you quoting every time I type "hero," like it's some kind of GACHA! is just like...weird, my dude.
 
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EDMIX

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Yes, and as expected, you were too triggered by the word hero to understand the point of the post. Joel himself, the character, feels as though these are justified. He doesn't sit in a corner and have a moral quandary. He views his actions at the right thing. The only thing to do in this situation. The game frames this (from his perspective) as the right thing until the very closing moments of the game.

*My* views on the character have nothing to do with the perspective the story is told from, and that is what I'm referencing, so you quoting every time I type "hero," like it's some kind of GACHA! is just like...weird, my dude.

Nah bud, no one is forcing you to give this weird narrative that can't really be supported by the facts of the events in the game.....

He might feel its "justified" , yet he doesn't even feel good enough to tell the truth to Ellie and even when he tells Tommy, he is telling him alone, in a dark house as if its a secret, none of that points to this proud, noble, humble, good guy, hero bullshit man.

The game frames this

No it doesn't.

He kills Marlene with her injured, surrendering and begging to live.

Lies to Ellie about it.

Thats it. I don't see where the fuck that game is framing some shit as "the right thing"

I'd argue the game itself is telling you even JOEL might not feel that way if he is lying about those events.....it means even he is conflicted with that event.
 

TheInfamousKira

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Nah bud, no one is forcing you to give this weird narrative that can't really be supported by the facts of the events in the game.....

He might feel its "justified" , yet he doesn't even feel good enough to tell the truth to Ellie and even when he tells Tommy, he is telling him alone, in a dark house as if its a secret, none of that points to this proud, noble, humble, good guy, hero bullshit man.



No it doesn't.

He kills Marlene with her injured, surrendering and begging to live.

Lies to Ellie about it.

Thats it. I don't see where the fuck that game is framing some shit as "the right thing"

I'd argue the game itself is telling you even JOEL might not feel that way if he is lying about those events.....it means even he is conflicted with that event.

Yes. After the events. He was sure as shit of himself all the way to the headshot on Marlene. There was no hesitation, no cracking in his voice, no thinking about backing down. It was after the fact, when Ellie wakes up and he sees HER reaction to being told (lied to) about not being the cure for the world, that the guilt and doubt starts to work it's way in. The intro to Part II is presumably not long after the closing of Part I, and these sheepish half-truth answers to Tommy's inquiries reflect this. It's almost as if...all the adrenaline has been sucked out of his big hero (lol) moment and he's left in the real world with the sobering actuality of his actions. Like I said six thousand words back in this clusterfuck.

You're basically arguing with me because I'm saying the building is three yards away and you claim it's nine feet, so I'm wrong.
 
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EruditeHobo

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He might feel its "justified" , yet he doesn't even feel good enough to tell the truth to Ellie and even when he tells Tommy, he is telling him alone, in a dark house as if its a secret, none of that points to this proud, noble, humble, good guy, hero bullshit man.

Yeah, exactly. The way this information is presented -- in both games -- skews very grey area. Joel's own actions speak to how he must feel about the aftermath of what he's done, even though he says himself he'd make the same decisions over again.

That is the whole thrust of these game... whether or not these characters can live with the impact of their decisions! Not whether or not their decisions are always ethically justified, or whether they would do the same things again.

When words like heroic and triumphant get used, we aren't talking anymore about character decisions... we're talking about how the audience is meant to feel. That's why this digression started, this is not portrayed as a heroic decision or a triumphant moment for Joel. That's the difficulty because we want it to feel heroic, but it in many ways doesn't.
 
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The first half of the story is OK - not nearly as good as TLoU1, but maybe on par with Uncharted 2. But the second half of the story is just an awful slog that ruins the entire game retrospectively.
 

PanzerAzel

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Nothing was changed because the game did not end happily for both characters.

If anyone played The Last of Us should have known at least two of these things were going to happen in The Last of Us Part II:

1. Ellie and Joel were going to have a strained relationship.
2. Someone linked to the Fireflies might come after Joel.

The last two cutscenes were designed to make the player feel sympathy.

Joel - "If somehow the lord gave me a second chance at that moment, I would do it all over again."

I don't see how anyone can say it was presented or changed to make Joel out to be a monster.
Ellie’s reaction (and consequent adverseness) paints Joel the monster. I found her response to the truth not really at all within the realm of plausibility.

I’d think a revelation so profound and world-shattering to a single individual would humble and sadden them, not enrage. Perhaps initially, as such anger as she showed is a natural impulsive response before it eventually has time to settle into contemplations of the broader ramifications, but she continued to act superficially angry as time went on. When she’s still acting bitchy to him after the revelation (such as at the bigot sandwich barn dance) as if she’s simply been restricted and is still festering from not being able to attend her senior prom instead of being robbed from being the potential savior of mankind…..I’m sorry….it belittles the significance of the issue, marginalizes the characters who bear its burden, and consequently undermines the legitimacy of the entire narrative that predicates itself upon it.

Ellie‘s snarkiness to a revelation of such gravitas was wholly unbelievable to me as the game progressed. I would’ve expected her to be stunned and shocked, so much so that she couldn’t even manage to be angry, at least past initial impulse. I would expect anyone in her position to plunge into a world of apathy, indifference, nihilism, and ultimately deep, deep depression, and who would act very reticent and uncertain around Joel. Distrustful, skeptical, tentative, reserved, wounded. But for anger to be the predominant emotional response remaining later on indicates to me absent or at best stunted growth…..not to her failings as a character…..but of the one who wrote her in his failing to understand the process of grieving and acceptance.

It would’ve be so refreshing for her not to have acted like a gipped teenager, but for that revelation to demonstrate the significance of its implications in the reflections of those whom it bore upon.
 
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BadBurger

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Nov 6, 2019
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Fuck Jerry and Fuck Abby

I would gladly pay 70 dollars for a game that is just only about smashing their heads with a hammer

Pieces of shit

 
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