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I want to learn more about US history, where to start?
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BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Day of the Tentacle
HerbertFish
Member
wikipedia.com
Tocqueville does not write history there.
OP, a decent start could be Eric Foner, The Story of American Freedom, 1999.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0393319628/?tag=neogaf0e-20
He makes a convincing case that the history of the US can be interpreted as a succession of struggles over the meaning of freedom and its continuing redefinitions.
FWIW, I teach US history.
If you liked Lincoln, try Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln. It's the book on which the movie is based.
A People's History of the United States tells American history from a very different perspective than a textbook, and might blow your mind a little.
A People's History of the United States tells American history from a very different perspective than a textbook, and might blow your mind a little.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
I like it, but added to it.
teruterubozu
Member
This. Unlearn all the crap you learned in school.
Tesseract
Banned
braveheart --> the patriot --> Saving Private Ryan --> Band of Brothers --> we were soldiers --> lethal weapon --> the postman --> mad max --> waterworld
let's keep it going
Watch Ken Burns' The Civil War.
It's the best way to get educated on the most important chapter of American history.
The excellent People's History of the United States provides an alternative narrative to the American story (and pretty much mandatory if you want to fuck counter culture chicks) but you might want to approach it after you're a but more familiar with the mainstream telling of that story (you can definitely tackle it, it's a very easy read, it's just that you're bound to raise some eyebrows if that's the only telling that you know).
It's the best way to get educated on the most important chapter of American history.
The excellent People's History of the United States provides an alternative narrative to the American story (and pretty much mandatory if you want to fuck counter culture chicks) but you might want to approach it after you're a but more familiar with the mainstream telling of that story (you can definitely tackle it, it's a very easy read, it's just that you're bound to raise some eyebrows if that's the only telling that you know).
TheChewyWaffles
Member
I kind of ruined your American History as Told By Mel Gibson thing, sorry. Still, I think you have to have a WW2 film in there.
edit: put last of the mohicans in the wrong place
Tesseract
Banned
valid point and no worries it sits in the list fine. i'm trying to figure out what's after waterworld. battlefield earth?
The two must read books of American history are
Empire of Liberty (1789-1815), Gordon Wood.
Rise of American Democracy (1815-1860), Sean Wilentz.
Both are fine stand-alone, synthetic treatments of their eras- coffee table books, in effect. They are long, and with lots of material, but they are explicitly designed as introductions for non-specialists, but are subtle and important enough that they are go-to references for professionals in the field.
More specific monographs
Aggressive Nationalism- Richard Ellis. Constitutional conflict in early 1800s America
Free Soil, Free Labor, Free Men- Eric Foner- the antebellum political era and its conflicts.
Constitution Besieged- Howard Gillman- evolution of political thought from 1880s to 1920s
And, since you just saw Lincoln- from another thread
Read James Oakes's The Radical and the Republican; a subtle, challenging, but sympathetic account of Lincoln [and Frederick Douglass] with a particular focus on his involvement with party politics [what this film is mostly about]. This is the book I'm recommending to everyone interested in this film [and not just because the historian who wrote it is a great guy with whom I studied.]
I'd also second Tocqueville, but only AFTER you read the first two books on the list. 1871 is right that it's not the best starting point, but it's the best book on America. However, it requires the historical background that Wood and Wilentz will give you.
EDIT:
It's fun and edgy to post Zinn, Lies My Teacher Taught Me, etc., but the professional historians are all shying away from those sorts of works now and returning to something closer to orthodox history. I can tell you that all of the serious work we read in my history PhD program was far closer to old-school history- you know, the "Lies My Teacher Taught Me"- than anything out of Zinn and friends. And none of my history professors were anything close to Republicans, for the record. Foner himself is a raving Marxist in his personal politics but his historical accounts are quite "conservative", historiographically speaking.
Empire of Liberty (1789-1815), Gordon Wood.
Rise of American Democracy (1815-1860), Sean Wilentz.
Both are fine stand-alone, synthetic treatments of their eras- coffee table books, in effect. They are long, and with lots of material, but they are explicitly designed as introductions for non-specialists, but are subtle and important enough that they are go-to references for professionals in the field.
More specific monographs
Aggressive Nationalism- Richard Ellis. Constitutional conflict in early 1800s America
Free Soil, Free Labor, Free Men- Eric Foner- the antebellum political era and its conflicts.
Constitution Besieged- Howard Gillman- evolution of political thought from 1880s to 1920s
And, since you just saw Lincoln- from another thread
Read James Oakes's The Radical and the Republican; a subtle, challenging, but sympathetic account of Lincoln [and Frederick Douglass] with a particular focus on his involvement with party politics [what this film is mostly about]. This is the book I'm recommending to everyone interested in this film [and not just because the historian who wrote it is a great guy with whom I studied.]
I'd also second Tocqueville, but only AFTER you read the first two books on the list. 1871 is right that it's not the best starting point, but it's the best book on America. However, it requires the historical background that Wood and Wilentz will give you.
EDIT:
It's fun and edgy to post Zinn, Lies My Teacher Taught Me, etc., but the professional historians are all shying away from those sorts of works now and returning to something closer to orthodox history. I can tell you that all of the serious work we read in my history PhD program was far closer to old-school history- you know, the "Lies My Teacher Taught Me"- than anything out of Zinn and friends. And none of my history professors were anything close to Republicans, for the record. Foner himself is a raving Marxist in his personal politics but his historical accounts are quite "conservative", historiographically speaking.
shadyspace
Banned
Where are you from OP? You should start with how we brought freedom to your nation.
Face it Tiger..
Banned
Watch the J. Edgar movie
It talks about the FBI in its infancy.
It talks about the FBI in its infancy.
Gotta have some stuff from before the colonies were set up for context in there.
Rhomega Beta
Member
Braveheart-->The Patriot-->Lincoln-->Saving Private Ryan-->Band of Brothers-->M*A*S*H-->We Were Soldiers-->Lethal Weapon-->2012-->The Postman-->Mad Max-->Waterworld
SaltyDoughnut
Member
Ken Burns
oh and Ken Burns.
oh and Ken Burns.
TestMonkey
Member
Since you liked Lincoln you should read Team of Rivals.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I'm actually learning a lot about US history and the US's relations to Europe in the 1800s from a great biography of Samuel Morse. Its really interesting reading about the events through the lense of the collected letters and papers of one person, and what they found important.
I just started (well, i'm 6 hours in) watching Ken Burns' The Roosevelts. I've never watched a Burns documentary... this is sooooooooo good. I'm actually glad that it's exceptionally long and detailed.
I want a freakin' movie of Theodore's amazonian adventure
The Albatross
Member
Haha, no.
Haeralis The BRave
Banned
You should pick up some of David McCullough's books. 1776, Truman, and John Adams are all considered masterpieces.
John Milton Cooper and H.W Brands wrote excellent biographies on Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt as well.
Ronald Reagan's autobiography is wonderful.
Bill O'Reilly's "Killing" books are really, really good and they don't really have much of any party politics. They were loved and recommended to me by a Democrat.
Uh, yes.
John Milton Cooper and H.W Brands wrote excellent biographies on Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt as well.
Ronald Reagan's autobiography is wonderful.
Bill O'Reilly's "Killing" books are really, really good and they don't really have much of any party politics. They were loved and recommended to me by a Democrat.
Uh, yes.
Frustrated_me
Member
The Men Who Built America (also known as The Innovators: The Men Who Built America in some international markets) is a History six-hour, four-part miniseries docudrama broadcast in Fall (Autumn) 2012, and on the History Channel UK in Spring 2013. The series focuses on Cornelius Vanderbilt, John D. Rockefeller, Andrew Carnegie, J. P. Morgan and Henry Ford and how their industrial innovations and business empires revolutionized modern society
Icefire1424
Member
Braveheart-->The Patriot-->Lincoln-->Saving Private Ryan-->Band of Brothers-->The Pacific-->M*A*S*H-->We Were Soldiers-->Lethal Weapon-->Blackhawk Down-->2012-->The Postman-->Mad Max-->Waterworld
Mineshaft_Gap
4077th
I want to chime in with a suggestion that you listen to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History.
"The American Peril" is an excellent examination of what was going on in America around the turn of the last century. This episode goes a long way towards making the next 114 years make sense with regards to our foreign policy. It's one of my favorite standalone episodes.
Ken Burns The West
Ken Burns The Civil War
"The American Peril" is an excellent examination of what was going on in America around the turn of the last century. This episode goes a long way towards making the next 114 years make sense with regards to our foreign policy. It's one of my favorite standalone episodes.
Ken Burns The West
Ken Burns The Civil War
TheWarrior
Banned
This is basically it
Crash Course - US History
I haven't watched this one yet, but I still recommend because the World History, Literature and Psychology crash courses are all fantastic to watch.
I haven't watched this one yet, but I still recommend because the World History, Literature and Psychology crash courses are all fantastic to watch.
Orbis Tabula
Member
Lately, I've really start to get into history myself. I realize its one of the few things that I feel woefully uninformed about. One idea I've read somewhere (but I don't remember where) is to just find the highest rated, most well received biography of each president, and read each one. Obviously, that's a long term project, but it's something I've thought about starting on sometime. I'm definitely going to follow this thread, though. I need to learn more and I know GAF has some pretty competent history buffs.
djplaeskool
Member
A People's History of the United States was kind of a mindscrew for me.
There is so much untold (both intentionally and inadvertently) in American History. Definitely an interesting and eye-opening perspective on well-known and not-so-well-known events.
There is so much untold (both intentionally and inadvertently) in American History. Definitely an interesting and eye-opening perspective on well-known and not-so-well-known events.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
Took long enough for this to get posted.
Definitely check out Civil War, it's his masterpiece. We could watch together if you want? Maybe charge our JO crystals while listening to the soothing tones of Shelby Foote.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Everyone saying Ken Burns is right, OP. Just sit down with them, and a week (or two) later you'll be pretty much up to date.
Haeralis The BRave
Banned
There are people recommending A People's History of the United States? Howard Zinn was a well documented Communist when the Cold War was at its height in the late 50s and early 60s. The FBI released files in 2010 that make it known without any doubt whatsoever.
Zinn writes well and is quite inspiring, but his book is bad history. In fact, I would not even call it history. A People's History of the United States is a political tract that uses the past to promote a presentist agenda...Zinn's book violates virtually every rule of good historical thinking.[
-John Fea, Author / Historian
From the beginning, critics have pointed out the lack of context, sourcing and footnoting, and objectivity in Zinn's work. The author countered that his aim was not objective history, but prescriptive historynot studying the past as a means of understanding the past, but of changing the future.
When changing the future, one can't start too young. The Zinn Education Project, a nonprofit organization dedicated to "Teaching A People's History" maintains a website of educational resources for getting Zinn's ideas into elementary and even preschool classrooms. A Young People's History of the United States is already available; next up is the comic-book version. The story always begins with friendly Indians paddling blithely into the clutches of European imperialists. [4]
-http://www.worldmag.com/articles/16402
You might enjoy this book if your a communist, but I'll stick to more objective books about history which highlight the faults of American history, as well as the successes. The lack of objectivity is not just a claim, Zinn fully admitted it.
"Objectivity is impossible, and it is also undesirable"
-Howard Zinn
I just can't fathom how anyone could recommend his book unless they are so totally far left that they can completely see past his revisionism.
Zinn writes well and is quite inspiring, but his book is bad history. In fact, I would not even call it history. A People's History of the United States is a political tract that uses the past to promote a presentist agenda...Zinn's book violates virtually every rule of good historical thinking.[
-John Fea, Author / Historian
From the beginning, critics have pointed out the lack of context, sourcing and footnoting, and objectivity in Zinn's work. The author countered that his aim was not objective history, but prescriptive historynot studying the past as a means of understanding the past, but of changing the future.
When changing the future, one can't start too young. The Zinn Education Project, a nonprofit organization dedicated to "Teaching A People's History" maintains a website of educational resources for getting Zinn's ideas into elementary and even preschool classrooms. A Young People's History of the United States is already available; next up is the comic-book version. The story always begins with friendly Indians paddling blithely into the clutches of European imperialists. [4]
-http://www.worldmag.com/articles/16402
You might enjoy this book if your a communist, but I'll stick to more objective books about history which highlight the faults of American history, as well as the successes. The lack of objectivity is not just a claim, Zinn fully admitted it.
"Objectivity is impossible, and it is also undesirable"
-Howard Zinn
I just can't fathom how anyone could recommend his book unless they are so totally far left that they can completely see past his revisionism.
Eyes on the Prize was required viewing in my youth.
And whaddya know? All of the episodes are on YouTube!
And whaddya know? All of the episodes are on YouTube!
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
You can discount anything that begins with "A people's history.."
There is a difference between writing with a perspective and writing with an agenda.
I would suggest, say, Churchill has a perspective. Zinn has an agenda.
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