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[Boaty McBoatface]

Hey peeps.

As the title suggests I'm looking to go to Japan for a year on a holiday working visa (from UK). Travel the beautiful country and work, with an aim to get a better feel for the actual daily life.

I'm not going via a 'normal' route which is to apply to something like Nova and have them take care of me, instead I want to just go and apply for work as I live and travel.

Anyone else here had experience doing this? Was it a good/bad experience?

I'm really nervous about actually finding work and worried I'll struggle to support myself! I'm planning on taking an ESL course so I can possibly teach English. Actually that's something I'd like to do.

Any tips or advice greatly appreciated!

 

[Komatsu]

I've worked in Japan twice in the last ten years and I strongly recommend that you find some kind of employment or save enough money to support yourself before setting out for East Asia. This isn't the 80s or the 90s, so your gaijin status will not open as many doors as you'd like to believe and, moreover, it is extremely hard to find meaningful employment unless you speak the language at a functional level.

If you want to teach English, or do eigo kaiwa (train them on English conversation), look for schools that hire from overseas. They exist. You don't need to be an English major to teach in Japan, though legitimate credentials would help you secure the cushiest spots. Try the regional markets (Kumamoto, Akita, Hokkaido, etc.) - there's less competition and the cost of living is way lower than in Tokyo. As a matter of fact, avoid Tokyo like the plague. Visit, enjoy, have fun but do not live there or you'll drain your funds extremely fast - the place's a black hole.

 

[Sakura]

I went to Japan on a WHV. Worked at a convenience store.
I honestly think it will be difficult to get work teaching English, especially if you aren't settled somewhere. It also doesn't pay as well as you might think it does.

 

[Geki-D]

You may want to look up the accounts of people who have tried the same thing as you. They tend to be negative and filled with regret. Japan is crazy expensive, overall pretty boring, the people generally aren't too impressed with foreigners who show up and make no effort to speak their language and whilst speaking English is a big plus in a lot of poorer Asian countries, Japan has no shortage of qualified English speaking teachers who are also fluent in Japanese and already live there.

Go there on holiday instead. It'll preserve the idealistic image of Japan so many westerns have.

 

[entremet]

Have you traveled to the country before at least? I love visiting the region, but the lusters wears off for long term stays. Japan isn't the most friendly country to foreigners. I'm not talking about racism per se. They've just historically been one of the hardest countries to settle in as a foreigner.

There's a big reason why white collar professionals aren't as excited about the place compared to other countries.

 

[Trojita]

instead I want to just go and apply for work as I live and travel.

You want to be a freeter in Japan as a gaijin? Sounds like an absolutely terrible idea.

 

[Dunki]

Yeah I am with the rest traveling and work will be almost impossible. Best is to settle down for a year and work. While travel in your freetime if you have the money for it. Also to be able to teach english you also need a basic level of Japanese. Your best chance are still usual organisations that will help you

 

[Cybrwzrd]

I lived there for over a year, going to this school for language study - www.yamasa.org/en/index.html

I also taught English and bartended part time. Mind you this was back in 2003-2005. It was a wonderful experience, I had a blast. Mind you, I did speak intermediate Japanese from 4 years of study before enrolling.

I will write up something later about my experience and any tips I have.

 

[Sakura]

Some negative posts about living in Japan so I will just say that I enjoyed my time I was here on the WHV, and am still living here.
It is definitely not expensive, maybe if you live in Tokyo, but who wants to live there.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

Some negative posts about living in Japan so I will just say that I enjoyed my time I was here on the WHV, and am still living here.
It is definitely not expensive, maybe if you live in Tokyo, but who wants to live there.

Yep, don't live in Tokyo (or in the heart of any big city really). And if you really want access to a big city pick suburban Nagoya or Osaka ( someplace ~45 mins by train to city center) as a place to live.

Osaka and Nagoya are better anyways.

 

[Antoon]

I have lived there for a year, so I can give you all the points shortly,

 

[mr_kittycat]

I think JordanN is quite the expert on Japan, so you may want to ask him

 

[navii]

My mate is currently doing this. He did a lot of background planning before he went there, but he just went and did it.

Front my general conversations with him you should be looking at getting a local phone number, bank account, renting an apartment. He also mentioned getting some sort of personal stamp.

He hired an apartment in Tokyo, went there without a job. Took him a few months to get a job as a web designer for a big company. He can hardly speaky any Japanese. He said he almost ran out of money before he got the job.

I think ahead of the upcoming Olympics and other big sporting events, there might be more employment opportunities for English speakers.

Good luck.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Japan eh? I've always wanted to visit. None of the cities though. I want to scare off people from killing themselves in the forest of death. Like a reverse Scooby Doo. For about 4 months. Sounds like a bad idea but not as bad as being practically a hobo in a foreign country.

 

[Boaty McBoatface]

If you want to teach English, or do eigo kaiwa (train them on English conversation), look for schools that hire from overseas. They exist. You don't need to be an English major to teach in Japan, though legitimate credentials would help you secure the cushiest spots. Try the regional markets (Kumamoto, Akita, Hokkaido, etc.) - there's less competition and the cost of living is way lower than in Tokyo. As a matter of fact, avoid Tokyo like the plague. Visit, enjoy, have fun but do not live there or you'll drain your funds extremely fast - the place's a black hole.

Thanks for that. Yea I was thinking to just avoid Tokyo and try Osaka maybe but might be nearly as bad.

Have you traveled to the country before at least? I love visiting the region, but the lusters wears off for long term stays. Japan isn't the most friendly country to foreigners. I'm not talking about racism per se. They've just historically been one of the hardest countries to settle in as a foreigner.

There's a big reason why white collar professionals aren't as excited about the place compared to other countries.

I've been before about 10 years ago on a holiday, nothing I'd call real travel.

The bolded is something I can definitely understand, the work culture definitely leaves something to be desired.

I've worked and lived in Sydney for the last 8 years and the lifestyle is a far cry from the busy hectic-ness of London, and I know that Japan will be a a big change from what I have now. It'll be fascinating to me to just see how different their lifestyle is.

My mate is currently doing this. He did a lot of background planning before he went there, but he just went and did it.

Front my general conversations with him you should be looking at getting a local phone number, bank account, renting an apartment. He also mentioned getting some sort of personal stamp.

He hired an apartment in Tokyo, went there without a job. Took him a few months to get a job as a web designer for a big company. He can hardly speaky any Japanese. He said he almost ran out of money before he got the job.

I think ahead of the upcoming Olympics and other big sporting events, there might be more employment opportunities for English speakers.

Good luck.

Good to hear he found something in his field, and thanks for that info I'll look into that.

Appreciate all the replies in this thread.

 

[Boaty McBoatface]

I lived there for over a year, going to this school for language study - www.yamasa.org/en/index.html

I also taught English and bartended part time. Mind you this was back in 2003-2005. It was a wonderful experience, I had a blast. Mind you, I did speak intermediate Japanese from 4 years of study before enrolling.

I will write up something later about my experience and any tips I have.

Awesome mate I'll check that out

 

[Porcile]

I have been living here for the past three years. Speaking Japanese or at least making an attempt to seriously learn it opens many doors, is what I will say. Everything else is up to you.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Yep, don't live in Tokyo (or in the heart of any big city really). And if you really want access to a big city pick suburban Nagoya or Osaka ( someplace ~45 mins by train to city center) as a place to live.

Osaka and Nagoya are better anyways.

So much this. There are so many nicer places to live that are far more relaxing, beautiful, and easy going than the major cities. Plus with public transport, you can get into and out of the city pretty easy.

 

[Porcile]

Nagoya.... One of the most dead boring cities I've visited in Japan. At least recommend Sapporo or Fukuoka or something.

Tokyo is kind of boring culturally, and so many baka gaikokujin, but if you have some Japanese skill it's a playground for making friends, sexy time and fun!

 

[Antoon]

Ok, as I promised here are some things I have to say about my life there.

- Learn Japanese ASAP. Seriously the Japanese are horrible at English or any other language. If you wanna be a typical tourist all year long its fine of course, but you will uncover a whole new life if you can speak with so many types of Japanese. Not to mention your gate for the never before released media outside of Japan is open. You can dive into things that nobody in the Western world ever heard of, its funny how bad all the mainstream anime/manga stuff becomes once you discover better things.

- Avoid Summers in Japan as much as possible. They are BRUTAL, I could not stay outside for more than 5 min in July. Boiling hot, feels like suffocating and sweat non-stop. It was horrible, especially since I lived in Kansai region next to Osaka. HOkkaido is probably fine in Summer, but its boring there.

- Try to go to as many festivals as possible, they are one of the kind. They usually are all from March-August, so make sure to visit the Kyoto ones.

- Capsule hotels are super cheap, you can stay in one for like 1500 yen, which is like 15 bucks. They can also have hot springs, so really great value.

- Osaka and Tokyo are the most interesting places to be in as they have the largest variety of culture, sights, media, events. But Osaka is much more friendlier and warmer place compared to the cold-hearted Tokyo where nobody cares about you.

- Getting work outside of teaching English is hard. I think every foreigner I met there was a teacher of some kind haha. I think it was related to the strickt work visa that every foreigner had to get.

- No noise after 11 PM in areas outside the city, even if you are outside somehwere. So make sure not to have a drunken stroll after this hour as the locals complain a lot.

- Making friends with Japanese is hard if you dont know the language, and even if you do, they are pretty shy with foreigners.

 

[ROMhack]

Apply on the JET scheme to teach English. I had an interview for it once but never went. Required no experience except an online TEFL certificate.

Personally I think I'd be choose Korea over Japan for a year. Better money.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

Ok, as I promised here are some things I have to say about my life there.

- Learn Japanese ASAP. Seriously the Japanese are horrible at English or any other language. If you wanna be a typical tourist all year long its fine of course, but you will uncover a whole new life if you can speak with so many types of Japanese. Not to mention your gate for the never before released media outside of Japan is open. You can dive into things that nobody in the Western world ever heard of, its funny how bad all the mainstream anime/manga stuff becomes once you discover better things.

- Avoid Summers in Japan as much as possible. They are BRUTAL, I could not stay outside for more than 5 min in July. Boiling hot, feels like suffocating and sweat non-stop. It was horrible, especially since I lived in Kansai region next to Osaka. HOkkaido is probably fine in Summer, but its boring there.

- Try to go to as many festivals as possible, they are one of the kind. They usually are all from March-August, so make sure to visit the Kyoto ones.

- Capsule hotels are super cheap, you can stay in one for like 1500 yen, which is like 15 bucks. They can also have hot springs, so really great value.

- Osaka and Tokyo are the most interesting places to be in as they have the largest variety of culture, sights, media, events. But Osaka is much more friendlier and warmer place compared to the cold-hearted Tokyo where nobody cares about you.

- Getting work outside of teaching English is hard. I think every foreigner I met there was a teacher of some kind haha. I think it was related to the strickt work visa that every foreigner had to get.

- No noise after 11 PM in areas outside the city, even if you are outside somehwere. So make sure not to have a drunken stroll after this hour as the locals complain a lot.

- Making friends with Japanese is hard if you dont know the language, and even if you do, they are pretty shy with foreigners.

I am going to agree with most of this.

If you want to go to Japan, you had better do your best to assimilate. Learn the language, respect their culture, don't act like an ass and don't expect them to tolerate your bullshit if you decide to go against the grain. Now I think this should be the case with any country you decide to live in long term though. As a tourist you are expected not to know things, but if you are making your life there for a term longer than a typical tourist would, your experience will be much better and it will open doors for you. They will forgive mistakes, but they appreciate the effort to fit in. You will never open every door, but the deeper you can get the better your overall experience can be.

Summers in Japan really aren't nearly as bad as he says though. You get used to the heat and humidity. Speaking of this though - Japanese deodorant sucks. Bring the good stuff from your home country.

Festivals are awesome, but again, you really need to speak at least basic Japanese and have Japanese friends to really enjoy them unless they are in touristy areas.

Gotta agree with the don't be loud outside past 11, but isn't this common sense in any residential area worldwide?

Garbage sorting is a thing in Japan, and it is a pain in the ass. And it can vary by city as to what needs to be sorted. And your neighbors will complain if you don't do it right.

Renting an apartment can be difficult. Mine was booked through my school, but I have heard horror stories.

There is no Uber outside of Tokyo. Taxis are expensive. If you are staying long term, you are going to need at minimum a bicycle.

Don;t be a picky eater. Try everything. There are so many regional specialties too. It is wonderful for foodies.

 

[Chairman Tickles]

Japan is very expensive. Have a job lined up there before you go there.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

Nagoya.... One of the most dead boring cities I've visited in Japan. At least recommend Sapporo or Fukuoka or something.

Tokyo is kind of boring culturally, and so many baka gaikokujin, but if you have some Japanese skill it's a playground for making friends, sexy time and fun!

You must not have known where to go or how to have fun in Nagoya then. I partied hard all night there many nights taking the first train home in early morning. The fun isn’t near Nagoya Station tho, cause yeah it is dead there at night. Sakae is where you need to be.

 

[caffeware]

Ok, as I promised here are some things I have to say about my life there.
Not to mention your gate for the never before released media outside of Japan is open. You can dive into things that nobody in the Western world ever heard of, its funny how bad all the mainstream anime/manga stuff becomes once you discover better things.

Is this still a thing nowadays with the internet and all?

 

[Antoon]

Is this still a thing nowadays with the internet and all?

It is, tons of manga and anime is never translated because they are too niche, even on the internet. And you only get a chance to see it if you can go deep in the Japanese forums.

 

[Porcile]

You must not have known where to go or how to have fun in Nagoya then. I partied hard all night there many nights taking the first train home in early morning. The fun isn’t near Nagoya Station tho, cause yeah it is dead there at night. Sakae is where you need to be.

I stayed in Sakae. Yeah, it's fun in some ways but nothing special. I would never want to live in Nagoya.

 

[Boaty McBoatface]

Ok, as I promised here are some things I have to say about my life there...

Dude really awesome.

- Getting work outside of teaching English is hard. I think every foreigner I met there was a teacher of some kind haha. I think it was related to the strickt work visa that every foreigner had to get.

Yea looks this way, I'm only getting a 1 year working holiday so imagining I'm going to find short term teaching or something of that nature... I will get a TEFL just in case, have plenty of time (kinda...)

I am going to agree with most of this.

If you want to go to Japan, you had better do your best to assimilate. Learn the language, respect their culture, don't act like an ass and don't expect them to tolerate your bullshit if you decide to go against the grain. Now I think this should be the case with any country you decide to live in long term though. As a tourist you are expected not to know things, but if you are making your life there for a term longer than a typical tourist would, your experience will be much better and it will open doors for you. They will forgive mistakes, but they appreciate the effort to fit in. You will never open every door, but the deeper you can get the better your overall experience can be....

Totally understand this. I'm not looking to make this a long term (beyond 2 years max) thing as I know I'll never truly make a life there and fit in. It's just the way it is with such a different culture and language, Also after being in Australia for 8 years I'm looking forward to going back home to the UK for something permanent feeling. Japan just feels like something I have to do before I never can, since working holidays can't be given after 31.

...There is no Uber outside of Tokyo. Taxis are expensive. If you are staying long term, you are going to need at minimum a bicycle.

Good tip. On that note, are these things relatively cheap there? All I see on TV are those old school looking things with baskets lol. If there's a healthy 2nd hand car market maybe a cheapo thing is worth it, similar to how backpackers here buy crap and then shift it on.

Don;t be a picky eater. Try everything. There are so many regional specialties too. It is wonderful for foodies.

Ah mate from what I've tried I love and I'm actually looking forward to this the most! Having being in Australia you try some some outlandish things so I'm looking forward to it.

Again thanks for the advice guys.

 

[gundalf]

Is it actually possible to life for a year there as a self-employed dev freelancer?

 

[Porcile]

Is it actually possible to life for a year there as a self-employed dev freelancer?

On a working holiday visa, yes, otherwise not officially. I guess people renew their tourist visas by travelling to Korea every three months? Maybe living in a sharehouse or something.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

On that note, are these things relatively cheap there? All I see on TV are those old school looking things with baskets lol. If there's a healthy 2nd hand car market maybe a cheapo thing is worth it, similar to how backpackers here buy crap and then shift it on.

Mama Chariots are pretty cheap. You know, the bikes with baskets. Frankly, that is what most people in Japan have as a bike, because it is useful for running errands with. I wouldn't get anything more fancy.

Used cars... I mean there is a market. Driving in Japan in a pain in the ass, parking is limited and then there is the "shaken" - car inspection... This makes driving used cars expensive, especially if they are old. If you did get a car, I'd recommend going cheap with a little "kei" car - which is basically a car with a motorcycle 660cc engine.

 

[gundalf]

On a working holiday visa, yes, otherwise not officially. I guess people renew their tourist visas by travelling to Korea every three months? Maybe living in a sharehouse or something.

Interesting, that sounds like a lean solution. Another poster mentioned that live in japan is expensive, I make around 700$ per day as a freelancer, is this enough to get around there?

 

[Sakura]

Interesting, that sounds like a lean solution. Another poster mentioned that live in japan is expensive, I make around 700$ per day as a freelancer, is this enough to get around there?

Japan ain't expensive. My rent is like 250 dollars a month, food costs are about the same, utilities don't seem particularly expensive.
If you want to live in an American sized house in the middle of Tokyo then yeah, good luck. But that isn't exactly a realistic portrayal of living in Japan.
edit: Also you must be joking. 700 dollars a day? I don't think there is a single city in the world where 700 dollars a day for a guy living by himself wouldn't be enough to 'get around'.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Japan ain't expensive. My rent is like 250 dollars a month, food costs are about the same, utilities don't seem particularly expensive.
If you want to live in an American sized house in the middle of Tokyo then yeah, good luck. But that isn't exactly a realistic portrayal of living in Japan.

Cousin and BFF live in a rural area of Hokkaido. They have a house that is pretty decently sized for American standards (3 bed, 2 bath with an office) and pay reasonably. The only time it gets expensive is if you want to live in the middle of one of the major cities, which would be expected anywhere in the world.

 

[Linacruise1467]

I've worked in Japan twice in the last ten years and I strongly recommend that you find some kind of employment or save enough money to support yourself before setting out for East Asia. This isn't the 80s or the 90s, so your gaijin status will not open as many doors as you'd like to believe and, moreover, it is extremely hard to find meaningful employment unless you speak the language at a functional level.

If you want to teach English, or do eigo kaiwa (train them on English conversation), look for schools that hire from overseas. They exist. You don't need to be an English major to teach in Japan, though legitimate credentials would help you secure the cushiest spots. Try the regional markets (Kumamoto, Akita, Hokkaido, etc.) - there's less competition and the cost of living is way lower than in Tokyo. As a matter of fact, avoid Tokyo like the plague. Visit, enjoy, have fun but do not live there or you'll drain your funds extremely fast - the place's a black hole.

Agree with you.

 

[Boaty McBoatface]

I'm at the Japan Embassy in London about to find out if my visa has gone through. When I applied last week I was told this was a very unlikely application and I shouldn't hope for the best

 

[Mista]

Good luck with that man. Here’s my favourite YouTube channel concentrated on this matter

Abroad in Japan

British Guy making videos in Japan. Officially better than Simply Red. MERCHANDISE: https://www.redbubble.com/people/abroadinjapan/shop PATREON: https://www....

www.youtube.com

 

[JohannCK]

I've been in Japan for the past decade or so, but am not entirely familiar with the working holiday visa. Do you understand Japanese at all, though? You made it sound like you want to travel and just find work at wherever you travel to which could be feasible if you understand Japanese and are willing to work part time in convenience marts and so on, but not otherwise.

Interesting, that sounds like a lean solution. Another poster mentioned that live in japan is expensive, I make around 700$ per day as a freelancer, is this enough to get around there?

Like someone else said above there probably isn't a city in the world outside of maybe Dubai or something where $700 a day isn't enough.

Renting a place in Tokyo can be as cheap as $500, for a somewhat decent place you'd be looking at around $1000 (I used to rent a 30 square meter 1DK ten minutes from Shinjuku for about that). General cost of living isn't at all pricey, to be honest it seems that that the people saying that typically heard that from older relatives who heard about how expensive Japan was back in the 80's and never updated that information.

 

[Sakura]

I'm at the Japan Embassy in London about to find out if my visa has gone through. When I applied last week I was told this was a very unlikely application and I shouldn't hope for the best

As long as you are in the age range, and have the money, I don't understand why you wouldn't be able to get it.

 

[Boaty McBoatface]

As long as you are in the age range, and have the money, I don't understand why you wouldn't be able to get it.

Bugger, declined !!

 

[Boaty McBoatface]

They didn't give me a reason, but because I've spent last 8 years in Australia and not UK, they said I'm considered an Aussie resident not UK. Even though I'm born here and have the required money in auk bank account.

It was difficult overall, they said I should've applied in Australia, but I don't have a passport yet so that a no go, and I just turned 31 so the age deadline is passed (I applied before 31)

Either way, I was stuck, not much I could've done. I'm bummed, but this is a first world kinda upset nothing serious

Appreciate everyone's help and suggestions

 

[Thabass]

Ok, as I promised here are some things I have to say about my life there.

- Learn Japanese ASAP.

Not heading to Japan anytime soon. Where is a good place to learn Japanese? Are online sites good or is it better to to a classroom?

 

[Antoon]

Not heading to Japan anytime soon. Where is a good place to learn Japanese? Are online sites good or is it better to to a classroom?

living with a homestay Japanese family for a few months>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>classroom>>>online

 

[kiiltz]

T

Not heading to Japan anytime soon. Where is a good place to learn Japanese? Are online sites good or is it better to to a classroom?

Lots of places to learn for free provided you know where to look. I know someone who got to N2 without learning writing just from learning online.

- Tae Kim's guide
- Anki with 2/6k core deck
- Go to your local library and get Genki
- YouTubers like Misa Ammo
- Raika-kun extension on chrome (for mining Kanji)

Also keep in mind people learn differently. Find the way that suits you. Learning Hiragana and Katakana, then grinding out Anki whilst reading through some grammar will get you a long way. Nothing beats interacting with actual Japanese speakers and learners. There's ways to simulate that but you have to get creative.

Also, if you do end up grinding Anki, I think N5 is a waste of time. Everything is in Hiragana which ends up being the bane of your existence if you've stuffed ten million Kanji into your head.

Also also, you need an anchor to keep you coming back (because you're eventually going to want to quit) whether it's watching ur Chinese cartoons or reading mangos or watching bacharu yuuchuubas or being an idol otaku or fapping to JAVs or eroge. Otherwise you're gonna get disillusioned pretty quick.

 

[JohannCK]

Not heading to Japan anytime soon. Where is a good place to learn Japanese? Are online sites good or is it better to to a classroom?

I became fully fluent in the language before moving to Japan and now handle translation and interpretation professionally.

Take a proper class, preferably one at a language school, that is conducted entirely in Japanese, that prepares you for one level of the JLPT per year. Alternatively there are intensive language courses here in Japan that you can take if you want full immersion and intend on actually making use of the language in the future (full immersion is less for language ability and more for culture and natural language and so on which would be essential if you wish to live in Japan, or handle translation professionally). I would personally recommend going for one of those after reaching at least JLPT2 though (though apparently there ARE some catered towards people who don't understand Japanese at all).

I've seen countless people try and fail and from what I've seen: Sites and videos are never effective. Books are typically useless on their own. Those gimmicky books that come with CDs and videos and cards and so on are literally just scams, as is anything with the word "anki" on it. There are countless online forums for people learning Japanese who trade tips about the latest "decks" and "techniques", and it seems that 99.99% of the people in those have no idea what they're talking about and just want the status of "learning a language" while not actually trying to learn any of it, which is why if you visit them you'll find that the top posts are things like "I covered an entire wall in my bedroom with post-it notes, each with a different kanji! (No I still don't understand what any of them mean)"

3-5 years in a language school course with one lesson maybe 3 hours long a week should typically be enough to get you to JLPT1 if you take it seriously (if you do well enough your language school will recommend skipping a level which would hasten it up; You can only take one test a year. Also most places would typically recommend two years for JLPT1 but you can shorten that to one year too)

Edit: My knowledge of the system is almost two decades out of date though, I don't actually know how the current JLPT works. There were only four levels when I got to JLPT1. I'd guess that it's mostly the same with JLPT1 split into two levels instead of one given how it used to be recommended as a two year thing. In any case what I said about classes and so on should still be relevant.

 

[kiiltz]

I've seen countless people try and fail and from what I've seen: Sites and videos are never effective. Books are typically useless on their own. Those gimmicky books that come with CDs and videos and cards and so on are literally just scams, as is anything with the word "anki" on it. There are countless online forums for people learning Japanese who trade tips about the latest "decks" and "techniques", and it seems that 99.99% of the people in those have no idea what they're talking about and just want the status of "learning a language" while not actually trying to learn any of it, which is why if you visit them you'll find that the top posts are things like "I covered an entire wall in my bedroom with post-it notes, each with a different kanji! (No I still don't understand what any of them mean)"

I'm curious as to which forums you've visited because I've never seen this lol. It's always people asking about grammar or how to read a certain line from a book they're using or asking about etymology.

Also Anki is free but I'm guessing you mean it scams you out of your time. The problem with Anki (and other resources) is people use it and expect to all of a sudden know a language when it's suppose to be used in conjunction with other material, as is typical for self studying.

Keep in mind I have no intention in getting into a pissing contest on which is the better learning method. As I said in my original post, it entirely depends on the individual and there's evidence to the contrary of what you said. See: Lauren Tsai, MattVsJapan and the plethora of people on forums who sought alternative methods. Some people need to be taught and on the side of the spectrum some people can't be taught or are like me and have to work 12hr days 14 days in a row.

I do agree though, that ultimately the most important part is interacting with fluent speakers.

 

[JohannCK]

I'm curious as to which forums you've visited because I've never seen this lol. It's always people asking about grammar or how to read a certain line from a book they're using or asking about etymology.

Also Anki is free but I'm guessing you mean it scams you out of your time. The problem with Anki (and other resources) is people use it and expect to all of a sudden know a language when it's suppose to be used in conjunction with other material, as is typical for self studying.

Keep in mind I have no intention in getting into a pissing contest on which is the better learning method. As I said in my original post, it entirely depends on the individual and there's evidence to the contrary of what you said. See: Lauren Tsai, MattVsJapan and the plethora of people on forums who sought alternative methods. Some people need to be taught and on the side of the spectrum some people can't be taught or are like me and have to work 12hr days 14 days in a row.

I do agree though, that ultimately the most important part is interacting with fluent speakers.

I'd rather not mention those forums and to be honest don't remember where most of them even are. There's still one very big one I know of.

I think you might be talking about something specific with Anki but I meant 暗記 - rote memorisation - which is pretty much one of the dumbest options to go to when learning a language (it's also one of the reasons why the Japanese methods of teaching English are terrible, but I digress). Stuff like things on cards you memorise, or those silly things with the red plastic sheets.

In any case a proper class- Emphasis on proper- Is the only method of learning the language I've seen give consistent results within a reasonable timeframe. I'm talking about reaching an actually fluent level of course, if that's not what you're aiming for there are certainly other options.

 

[kiiltz]

Nah we're talking the about same thing re: Anki and my point still stands. Anyone who's used it properly will tell you that it's not suppose to be used alone and that just because you know an elementary level amount of Kanji doesn't mean you know Japanese. A lot of it depends on how you use it and what you're using it for. Typically, it's to learn the core 2/6k. Afterwards, it's to supplement reading material.

It's not for everyone (memorisation is robust, tedious and boring) but I don't think it's a scam as you put it, especially with it being free. I still think you're throwing shade there at the end but I'll just let it drop.

 

[Shouta]

Japanese classes are a pretty great starting point for learning, mostly because it's done in a structured manner. The biggest problem I see with self-learners is that they don't know where to start and they begin cramming everything in without direction. Folks that are good at teaching themselves will figure out how to bring it all together on their own but most need some guidance on how to approach it. Investing time to go to a class is also a pretty strong compelling force to learn something as well.

 

[Chairman Tickles]

What OP is proposing can be done easily in China or Korea. But Japan is a bad idea. You need money bro.