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I went back to Dragon Age: Inquisition after finishing FFXV and I have some Thoughts

pashmilla

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Aug 22, 2014
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I went back to Dragon Age: Inquisition after a few months of playing Final Fantasy XV. I figured it'd be interesting to compare them, since they're similar in many ways, and get criticised for a lot of the same things (mindless fetch quests, bland open world, one-button combat). Bearing in mind this is all subjective of course; I just wanted to open up some quality Discourse™.

Graphics:

FFXV wins, hands down. That foliage. Those animations. I love DAI, but I can admit it can be jank as hell.

FFXV



vs

DAI



Bioware, I love you, but Learn 2 Animate.

However I personally prefer DAI’s art direction and find it much more cohesive. The coloursssss.

FFXV


vs

DAI



Music:

Different strokes for different folks. Both Yoko Shimomura and Trevor Morris are supremely talented, and both soundtracks have absolute knock-outs on them.

FFXV: Wanderlust

Trespasser: Lost Elf Theme


Story:

The issues with FFXV's story are numerous and well-documented. Inquisition's story has been criticised for choices not meaning anything, a bland and unthreatening villain, and a generic "save the world" plot. However, the quality of storytelling in the two games is incomparable. Final Fantasy XV relegates its plot points to the anime and movie, and kills a supposedly important antagonist off-screen, leaving you to learn what happened to him from a bunch of notes lying around his body (yes, I know they're patching it, that's not the point). Characters are introduced, show up for two scenes, then promptly vanish into the ether. In Inquisition, everything happens for a reason, and I never found myself thinking "wait, what the fuck is going on?". Everything is explained. Plus you've some awesome and memorable secondary antagonists, such as Alexius, Calpernia, Samson, Erimond, Florianne, etc. FFXV SHOULD have memorable antagonists in Iedolas, Ravus, Verstael, Loqi... instead they show up once (literally, in some cases) then proceed to unceremoniously die off-screen.

Another issue is the heroic supporting cast - Prompto, Ignis, Gladiolus, Aranea, Cor, etc. There's no doubt that, whatever you might think of them, the party members in Inquisition are MUCH more fleshed out, with personal quests, optional scenes, each having their own motivation and backstory. I love Iggy and Prompto (Gladio can walk into a ditch tbh) but they have the depth of a puddle, and no motivations outside of Noctis. None of them have any real impact on the plot, whereas the same cannot be said for DAI's party members (cough Solas cough).

However even Tabata has acknowledged the story issues, so at least it's something they're aware of and something that hopefully will be improved in future instalments. I think a lot of the story issues in XV arise from having to cut down Nomura's trilogy plot into one game, and also from hiring the fracking Dissidia scriptwriter (just... don't do that) whereas Inquisition's story is its own thing that has room to breathe.


Quests:


Okay, getting into the good stuff here. FFXV and DAI have both been criticised for having grindy, MMO-esque fetch quests. Broadly speaking, that is true. However, in going back to DAI right after FFXV, I've found that it's actually a much bigger issue in XV. For example, let's compare two broadly similar (at the outset) quests that end up going in completely different directions.

FFXV: Restaurant owner tells you, a prince, that a shipment of beans he's waiting for hasn't arrived and dispatches you to fetch it. Go find the truck, kill the monsters that attacked it, get the beans, return them to the dude, get some money and EXP. He says thanks, then immediately sends you back out to get him some onions.

Inquisition: Soldier tells you, a member of the organisation fighting to restore order following a catastrophic event, that bandits have been attacking refugees. Go to the place where the bandits are. Another soldier tells you they're too well-equipped to be bandits, and to be careful. Kill the dudes, find a note saying they're holed up in a building somewhere else on the map. Go there, kill the dudes, find another note tying them to a crime ring hiding out in a dungeon nearby. Go there, kill everyone, get sweet sweet loot and EXP. The refugees are so grateful! Walking around the world, you can come across groups of them camping and talking about how much the Inquisition has helped them. Warm fuzzies all around.

Broadly speaking, the quests aren't all that different: talk to quest-giver, go here, kill some monsters/dudes and get rewards. However, the story framing for the quests is completely different: in XV, your kingdom has been attacked and your father killed, and you're out for revenge... and also beans, apparently. In Inquisition, you're specifically tasked with helping people and spreading word of the Inquisition's good deeds to get more people on your side, so taking out bandits makes complete sense!

This leads me onto another topic, because I'd argue that traversing the world to get to said quests is a very different experience in both games. So...


Open World Design:

The car in FFXV gets a shitton of criticism, for good reason; it's a glorified loading screen, and amounts to you a) just sitting there while it drives itself or b) just sitting there holding R2 while it basically drives itself. The world's size is an encumbrance more than anything else, and long (long, long...) loading times make fast travel a pain to use. Inquisition's decision to use smaller, self-contained zones was a good one; you still keep that sense of exploration and discovery, while making it relatively easy to get around even on foot. DAI's maps are much denser than XV's; there's basically something around every corner, even if it's just an Inquisition campsite or an astrarium.

Compare FFXV's entire world:


vs

The Hinterlands:


It takes about an hour to run from one end of the FFXV map to the other. The Hinterlands takes like... twenty minutes? Perhaps not even that? It's very impressive having a big open world, but having it big just for the sake of being big only hurts the experience and only makes getting around a huge pain in the neck. I mean, DAI is also guilty of this with the Hissing Wastes, but that shit is optional and many people never even see it
also I love the Hissing Wastes fite me

Combat:

I'm not going to talk about the quality of the combat system themselves because both are competent, and other than that it comes down to preference. However, DAI has elements to it that I think would have vastly improved XV: the ability to directly control party members and issue orders to them; the ability to enter tactical view and freaking move your party out of the enemy's direct line of attack because they're ranged archers and shouldn't be in melee range oh my gOD PROMPTO; a limited number of healing potions that adds some challenge to gameplay instead of just buying 99 of each healing item and spamming them until the battle is over or you die. Also the camera. If FFXV added these things and fixed up the camera I honestly think I would like the combat a lot more.

Finally...

f e m a l e c h a r a c t e r s

I've talked about my issues with FFXV's female characters. For those who missed it:

FFXV is a deeply (unintentionally, I think) misogynistic game and its female characters reflect archaic and harmful views of women in general, especially considering the series has a long history of very well-written women.


Dragon Age Inquisition lets you play as a woman - specifically, a woman who is never sexualised, who is powerful, who is respected, who has agency and choice. Cassandra is a skilled warrior, a loyal friend, a gooey romantic heart covered up by a spiky exterior. Leliana is a skilled and sneaky spymaster who all but runs the Inquisition and is torn between her innate compassion and her growing ruthlessness. Josephine is a talented diplomat who chooses to shy away from violence and encourage peace. Vivienne is a badass mage who can solo dragons, is an amazing, complex, compassionate, infuriating character, and is also a smart and powerful woman of colour. Sera is... Sera, but she still doesn't take shit from men who think they can boss her around. There are more, but you get my drift. FFXV has Aranea, who is amazing and underused; Iris, ditto; Cindy the sex doll; Luna the
fridged
damsel in distress; Gentiana the walking plot device. Wow. Much strongness.

To sum up

I'm not saying OMG FFXV IS SO BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD FOR LIKING IT (I'd settle for acknowledging its women problem honestly) or that DAI is the BEST GAME EVAR (that honour obviously goes to Final Fantasy XII and Persona 4). What I am saying is that one game is largely criticised by GAF while the other receives widespread praise, even though they're actually very similar in a lot of ways. Just something to think about, I guess.
 

Solid Sora

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Those two are my favorite RPGs of this console generations so far. Didn't know inquisition was hated in GAF.
 

Yoday

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Jun 10, 2013
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DA:I was held back quite a bit by being a cross gen game. Yeah, the animations were pretty bad by today's standards, but they had to work within the constraints of last gen hardware. I think they did a commendable job for a cross gen game. I can't wait to see the next Dragon Age, as that will be fully developed for this generation on a more mature Frostbite engine. It will also come at a time when we have Scorpio and PS4 Pro.
 

Holundrian

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Nov 1, 2014
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Does FFXV really receive wide spread praise on gaf? Honestly as one of the people that criticizes the game a looooot I feel like the game is as divisive as it should be given the quality and number of bad choices made. Really the only contention I ever had was people just nice talking its flaws showcasing the complete lack of ability to critically think just because they like something and the painting of valid criticism as negativity and malicious hating.

Other than that I kind of agree with the rest so I don't really have a lot to add.
 

pashmilla

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Aug 22, 2014
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DA:I was held back quite a bit by being a cross gen game. Yeah, the animations were pretty bad by today's standards, but they had to work within the constraints of last gen hardware. I think they did a commendable job for a cross gen game. I can't wait to see the next Dragon Age, as that will be fully developed for this generation on a more mature Frostbite engine. It will also come at a time when we have Scorpio and PS4 Pro.

Normally I would agree but the Mass Effect: Andromeda animations somehow manage to look even worse than Inquisition's, so I think it might also just be a Bioware problem.
 

ced

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I liked DA:I more zone like open areas to FF boring empty one, quests in both sucked.
 

Elandyll

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Those two are my favorite RPGs of this console generations so far. Didn't know inquisition was hated in GAF.
DAI was my goty in 2014, but yeah it gets a lot of hate due to a few not so smart choices:
Power mechanic
Collect a thon overload
Some inane side quests
Main vilain shits the bed halfway through and a bad end fight
Huge empty zones that should have been left out
Friggin Hinterlands that should make it clear you got to leave around lvl5 and come back later

Still one of my fav games this gen.
 

Kalentan

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Mar 29, 2015
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Those two are my favorite RPGs of this console generations so far. Didn't know inquisition was hated in GAF.

Oh yeah. Not often but being a fan of DAI can be quite hard on GAF considering it often gets shit on. But there are fans of it on here! I can assure you!
 

Weebos

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Apr 2, 2015
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Yup. I refuse to ever bring it up in any way here because it'll just shit up whatever thread it's in.

Good luck, op.

Same, it is kind of nuts how much people hate that game here. I also really enjoyed another hated game,
Shadow of Mordor
.
 

Luxorek

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May 10, 2015
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Didn't know inquisition was hated in GAF.

Where have you been?


Good opinion piece, OP! Haven't yet played FFXV, but I will keep what you said in mind and temper my expectations. It's worth pointing out that there is a two years gap between the two and yet some game design decisions never change, oh well.
 

jiggle

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Jun 7, 2004
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Wayyyyyy better diversities in DAI too
Definitely female characters, I agree
Better customizations
And job varieties


Ffxv is way more fun to play
More interesting designs
Better dungeons
 

Conciliator

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Apr 21, 2011
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they both have a kind a vaguely mind-numbing checkin-off-the-checklist element to them for sure, but FFXV breaks it up so poorly and slowly with those endless car rides, loooong loading screens and otherwise just slow navigation and pacing.
 

DemWalls

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Good comparison, but I don't agree with the art direction verdict, even if I haven't played FFXV yet. Inquisition's art goes from absolutely awful to just bland and uninspired.
 

Zakalwe

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XV isn't "deeply" misogynistic, but I do agree with some of your assessments regarding that topic.

Inquisition's art direction is soul crushing bland at times.
 

Mozendo

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Those two are my favorite RPGs of this console generations so far. Didn't know inquisition was hated in GAF.

Aside from Dragon Age Origins and the Awakening expansion a majority of GAF users dislike the franchise.
Playing through Inquisition right now and I finished 2 with all of the DLCs, I don't understand the hate, although I could see why people don't like DA:I's combat.
 

texhnolyze

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Oh man, I've been wanting to make this topic (or waiting for someone like you to make the better version of it)!

In graphics and animations, FFXV triumphs by a wide margin. But everything else including the combat and gameplay loop, I still highly prefer DA Inquisition. Story-wise, while still lacking, I think FFXV wins a bit due to the emotional power it has.

Playing FFXV really reminds of me of DA Inquisition, which makes the later the better game in some aspects in my opinion. Like mentioned, the side quests while pretty mmo-ish, are still MUCH better and make more sense than XV. I mean, if people hated DA:I so much due to the side quests but love FFXV to death by spending more than 100 hours doing the brain dead side quests, I'd like them to repent themselves. Really.
 

Zakalwe

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Oh man, I've been wanting to make this topic (or waiting for someone like you to make the better version of it)!

In graphics and animations, FFXV triumphs by a wide margin. But everything else including the combat and gameplay loop, I still highly prefer DA Inquisition. Story-wise, while still lacking, I think FFXV wins a bit due to the emotional power it has.

Playing FFXV really reminds of me of DA Inquisition, which makes the later the better game in some aspects in my opinion. Like mentioned, the side quests while pretty mmo-ish, are still MUCH better and make more sense than XV. I mean, if people hated DA:I so much due to the side quests but love FFXV to death by spending more than 100 hours doing the brain dead side quests, I'd like them to repent themselves. Really.

Side quests always boil down to the same thing. TW3 side quests are just repetitive as both of these games, for example.

The difference from game to game is how they prop-up and gloss over this repetition. TW3 does it with wonderful storytelling and world building, XV does it with excellent traversal and combat, DA does it with varied locations and strong group dynamics and character interactions, etc...

So while XV may look more exposed in this regard if we look at the quest system by itself, I can honestly say engaging with the gameplay required to complete these activities was much more fun than in other games that supposedly do side quests better.
 

Jumeira

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I hate DA:I with a passion, im bored to tears with FF15 (about 8 hours in), your comments on their similarities has made me lose what little motivation i had for this game. I mean, i foolishly thought (much like DA:I) they "it'll get better soon), and that moment didnt arrive for DA:I, i may have to cut my losses and move on. Biggest issue is that i paid full price for this pos.
 

Adryuu

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Hey, this OP post made me realise that maybe ME:A won't be as bad as it could as that my pre-order in fact makes sense. It can't be worse than Inquisition, right? I got a hundred and lots of hours in that. My wife even more. FFXV has been an ok experience (my first actual jrpg I ever finished more or less) and ME:A has to be much better than that. Right?

I'm actually quite in agreement with everything on OP. But both games were kind of disappointing, even if I've played both to the end and further.
 

Elandyll

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XV isn't "deeply" misogynistic, but I do agree with some of your assessments regarding that topic.

Inquisition's art direction is soul crushing bland at times.
Im not sure if it's "deeply" so, but I was pretty embarassed the first time Cindy gave me a "full service" at the station when I was refuelling and both my wife and kids were around. We did laugh about it, but also full smh.

I for sure wasn't expecting that in a FF game.
 

bobbychalkers

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I didn't know DA:I was hated but as with a lot of open world RPGs, I just had my fill and never went back to it. Unfortunately I'm starting to feel that way about Final Fantasy as well.
 

jonjonaug

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Dec 10, 2014
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FFXV is a pretty good game that does some good stuff, but all throughout it I found myself wishing it lived up to its potential. Coming right off of Xenoblade Chronicles X I found it pretty lacking, particularly in the open world and sidequest design.

In Xenoblade X it's fun just to move around. The terrain is varied, your running animation is powerful and fast, and the Skells are just so cool. Just about every sidequest in the game is some kind of fetch quest or "go here and kill this" quest, but every one you complete has a permanent (sometimes minor, sometimes very noticeable) effect on the world, offers some kind of info on the setting and world building, and different sidequests often tie together in some way.
 

SargerusBR

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I must have entered different threads on GAF if either DAI or FFXV received widespread praise.
 

StereoVsn

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Here is one thing though. I found DAI terribly boring. Combat was mediocre. Tactical option is completely messed up on PC.

I found FF XV combat a blast, art direction, animation, the areas in the open world were much better. Hunting mobs for quests was a lot more fulfilling vs a slog of say fighting dragons in DAI.
 

Cloud7

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DA:I was one of the most boring RPGs I've ever played. Just a completely lifeless game.

FFXV is the opposite of lifeless but it has plenty of flaws.

Give me the flawed but wondrous experience over the boring one, any day.
 

Disagree Guy

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I find Dragon Age a much better game for the following reasons

Better soundtrack
Better characters (the depth of some)
Gameplay that isn't (hold one button to attack and hold one to defend)
Customization (player and base)
Control any member of the team
Much more variety of area
Bigger total area to explore
More varied sidequests
DLC that adds huge amounts of gameplay rather than 'control this player for a bit'


Literally Final Fantasy has one thing better -
Graphics

The stories of both is average. Let's not forget DA is a 3 year old game or something and FFXV had a 10 year development......
 

patapuf

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Nov 18, 2011
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DA:I was one of the most boring RPGs I've ever played. Just a completely lifeless game.

FFXV is the opposite of lifeless but it has plenty of flaws.

Give me the flawed but wondrous experience over the boring one, any day.

I found most of FFXV to be pretty dead (setpiece moments aside). The little fauna there was i murdered to boot.
 

Lashley

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Sep 11, 2013
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I still need to finish DA:I, but I get bored every time.

I'm on chapter 10 of FF XV and I can't wait until it's over.
 

Schlorgan

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Just played through Inquisition again to finally do Trespasser and had a great time. Just not sure that I care enough about the FF world to put up with the boring stuff the way I did with DA.
 

Blinck

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Really weird to see people criticizing DAI for the art direction. I'm playing through it right now and it's one of the best aspects of the game. The variety of the environments, the colors, the lighting and how everything fits together in the world is incredible, IMO.

While some of the MMO quests do suck, I still think the game overall is a massive achievment in scope and scale. Props to BioWare and I hope they learn from both mistakes and successes of DAI going into ME3!
 

pashmilla

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Aug 22, 2014
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Really weird to see people criticizing DAI for the art direction. I'm playing through it right now and it's one of the best aspects of the game. The variety of the environments, the colors, the lighting and how everything fits together in the world is incredible, IMO.

I agree. I was running around the Hinterlands today and while I can see that on a technical level FFXV far surpasses it, on an aesthetic level I prefer DAI in every way. The midday lighting in XV has this grey sludgy look to it and makes everything look flat and drab, whereas in Inquisition the lighting is softer and gives everything this dreamy, painting-like feel, I love it. I also can't believe I forgot to talk about environment variety in the OP. FFXV's world is really hurt by lack of variety, IMO, especially compared to past FFs. You've got the desert place and the grassy place and some gas stations, and that's pretty much it save Altissia and the one-off locations later on.
 

paragonpro

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I like inquisition alot. It had a fantastic story and well written characters, it also had a big beautiful world to explore. But it was lacking in the combat somewhat. I liked xv alot to, it had a beautiful open world, great combat, a likeable party. But its story and side characters definitely suffered. Both games have strengths and weaknesses but I enjoyed both a ton.
 

Timeaisis

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DAI's main quesline was a million times better than FFXV'S main quesline. They both suffered from open world quest design, but FFXV suffered from it the entire game, where DAI had it in sidequests but actually had well made story quest content.

FFXV felt like an MMO with a bad story at times.
 
Nov 27, 2013
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DAI is a walking borefest, Gave up about 45 hours in, Didnt have a clue what the story was about as i forgot all about it amongst all the wandering around for stuff, Also the squadmates you get were boring.

FFXV was more fun albeit not by much.
 

Nezacant

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So weird... I had the urge to play DA:I after finishing FFXV. Great post! Agree with you on all points.
Except Hissing Wastes... still my least fave. Guess we have to fite.
 

Rodney McKay

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Jun 13, 2009
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DAI is a walking borefest, Gave up about 45 hours in, Didnt have a clue what the story was about as i forgot all about it amongst all the wandering around for stuff, Also the squadmates you get were boring.

FFXV was more fun albeit not by much.
I don't think you need to do the vast majority of the grindy quests in DA:I.

You just need to do enough side stuff to get Inquisition Points which let you do the next major story quest. But I'll fully admit that the game doesn't do the best job of telling that to the player. You're given a ton of large open world areas filled with stuff to do that seems like it would be advisable to do as much as possible.

I've been doing a lot of the grindy side stuff (because I'm crazy and like that stuff, haha) and I have so many inquisition points I can do whatever I want at my point.
 

Jangowuzhere

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Mar 12, 2015
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Not sure I agree with FFXV looking better.

Maybe it's unfair for me to compare, because I did play Inquisition on PC while FFXV was on a PS4. However, by modern standards, XV is just a complete mess and completely inconsistent. Half the game looks amazing (combat animations, lighting, particle effects.) and the other half looks terrible ( dialogue animations, draw distance, awful hair aliasing.)

Inquisition may not reach the visual highs of XV, but at least the visuals are cohesive and manage to create a believable game world. XV just reminds me I'm playing a video game most of the time.
 

dreamer3kx

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Jul 16, 2007
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I cant for my life play DA:I, I keep trying, I also went to it after finishing up FF 15 and enjoyed it, put in around 80 hrs, I really enjoyed previous DA's but cant play this one.
 

iSnakeTk

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Nov 1, 2012
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DAI has one of the most boring and monotonous combat systems of any RPG I have ever played. Even worse is the fact that they pretend it to be tactical by including a broken isometric view and saying here you go we heard your complaints.

FF15 has atleast a competent battle system. How someone can prefer DAI over it baffles me.

But this is a general problem with Western RPGs. They can not build a competent battle system other than the isometric tactical view from 20 years ago.
That's why I like Mass Effect 2 so much. They said fuck it and made it a TPS with some additions.
 

pashmilla

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Aug 22, 2014
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DAI has one of the most boring and monotonous combat systems of any RPG I have ever played. Even worse is the fact that they pretend it to be tactical by including a broken isometric view and saying here you go we heard your complaints.

FF15 has atleast a competent battle system. How someone can prefer DAI over it baffles me.

But this is a general problem with Western RPGs. They can not build a competent battle system other than the isometric tactical view from 20 years ago.
That's why I like Mass Effect 2 so much. They said fuck it and made it a TPS with some additions.

I usually play mages and yeah the combat generally consisted of holding R2 and hitting the different ability buttons. BUT THEN I made a dual dagger rogue and hnnnngh. Stealthing, going in unnoticed, one shotting an enemy with a critical hit then diving out of the way just in time is so satisfying.
 
Apr 9, 2015
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DAI has one of the most boring and monotonous combat systems of any RPG I have ever played. Even worse is the fact that they pretend it to be tactical by including a broken isometric view and saying here you go we heard your complaints.

FF15 has atleast a competent battle system. How someone can prefer DAI over it baffles me.

But this is a general problem with Western RPGs. They can not build a competent battle system other than the isometric tactical view from 20 years ago.
That's why I like Mass Effect 2 so much. They said fuck it and made it a TPS with some additions.
Interesting I had a different experience even vastly preferring it to Witcher 3's action based combat. Every class in DAI has the option to get very rotation and movement based. Mage in particular can become a sick melee ranged hybrid class zipping around the battlefield and unleashing sick spells.

The tactical options and the partner AI sucked balls but all in all combat was fun enough I'd do the grindy side shitquests just to get to fight.
The AI was so atrocious that I disabled nearly all but barrier and resurrect from my barrier bot and Varric is better with dagger than motherfucking bianca.
 

ZangBa

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Apr 22, 2013
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I can't think of one thing FFXV does better than DA:I besides graphics. All those graphics don't really help when the whole place looks same and bland, littered with boring as fuck all gas stations.