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Ice shelf the ice of 20 Manhattans about to break of from Antarctica

Dec 11, 2012
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We will deserve everything we get

This.
 

YourMaster

Member
Jan 26, 2006
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I sorta see what you're saying, but it's still an evasive and rather sizable load of bullocks. Equating evolutionary changes that took place over millions of years to wrecking all of it within the span of a hundred years through decidedly less natural means because 'all of it is change and change is neither good nor bad' or some bullshit like that is again, stupid and entirely besides the point.

No it's not. Mass extinctions happened just as quick in the past. I don't see how it is relevant if we are any more or less natural than for instance an asteroid.
The point remains, we suffer, nature remains. Nature will recover, and in a few million years there's perhaps more diversity than there is now. And if there are a few eons of hardship, it is only us humans that care.

We want to live in a nice hospitable planet with a climate that suits use, and pretty animals around. We don't want to wait for a million generations to see if new giant mammals evolve.
 

Shredderi

Member
Feb 24, 2013
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Has there ever been a generation of people who didn't believe that they would witness the end of the world? I'm not worried. I'll just go to winchester, have a pint and wait for all of this to blow over.
 

MisterFalcon

Member
Mar 12, 2013
3,500
638
690
This is the biggest recorded ice calving in human history and has done so at a rate beyond any previous calving before it. it absolutely is a reflection of the general situation of the caps, which IS affected by global warming.

Not nearly. B-15 was 10 times as big when it calved in 2000. And it drifted into the sea, then back to Antarctica. Much like iceberg B-9 whicj was also bigger and was thought to have killed 150,000 penguins by blocking their bay. Or so people thought until it turned out that rather then sit there and die so humans could feel bad the penguins simply moved somewhere else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceberg_B-15
 

MistaBowaa

Member
Aug 21, 2013
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Orlando, FL
Physics Question:

Since the ice is already displacing water, it's not adding anything new to the ocean. Because water expands when it freezes (see: frozen water bottles), wouldn't the sea level decrease when this thing melts?

If anything, the reason the sea level rises is from all the junk and other fluids we toss in the ocean. That and sea life reproducing too fast.

At least, that's my hot take after waking up 5 minutes ago.
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
Jan 5, 2008
23,619
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Physics Question:

Since the ice is already displacing water, it's not adding anything new to the ocean. Because water expands when it freezes (see: frozen water bottles), wouldn't the sea level decrease when this thing melts?

If anything, the reason the sea level rises is from all the junk and other fluids we toss in the ocean.

At least, that's my hot take after waking up 5 minutes ago.

No the sea rises when landlocked ice melts into it. The ice already floating in water melting won't decrease sea levels either, since ice floats, it doesn't displace that much water. It'll displace the same amount once it's melted.
 

MistaBowaa

Member
Aug 21, 2013
439
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Orlando, FL
No the sea rises when landlocked ice melts into it. The ice already floating in water melting won't decrease sea levels either, since, you know, ice *floats*?

Ice floats in the sense that it doesn't sink, but most of it is still submerged. It's not 100% sitting on the surface.
 

Theonik

Member
Aug 14, 2010
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kininarima.su
I hate this quote and quotes like this with a passion.

If you view the planet as a floating ball of rock, then sure, it's not going anywhere. The delicate eco system that most sane individuals view as essentially the same thing? You can bet your ass that's going somewhere, and it ain't good.
Nature will adjust, our societies will inevitably collapse, much wildlife will perish but in the grand scheme of the planet new life will spring pretty soon after that.
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
Jan 5, 2008
23,619
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Ice floats in the sense that it doesn't sink, but most of it is still submerged. It's not 100% sitting on the surface.

Well yes, but have you ever seen the water level in a glass decrease after the ice cubes have melted?
 

MistaBowaa

Member
Aug 21, 2013
439
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Orlando, FL
Well yes, but have you ever seen the water level in a glass decrease after the ice cubes have melted?

I've never measured that, but using the water bottle example, the volume changes based on its state. I would imagine it's the same thing, albeit harder to tell if you're measuring a couple ice cubes in a glass vs the entire glass.
 

pestul

Member
Jun 13, 2004
10,506
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So the biggest change here will be that the continental glacier will now slide into the ocean faster and the increased ocean exposed will also heat the planet faster by absorbing more sun rays. Shit sucks.
 

bigjig

Member
Aug 8, 2011
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I sorta see what you're saying, but it's still an evasive and rather sizable load of bullocks. Equating evolutionary changes that took place over millions of years to wrecking all of it within the span of a hundred years through decidedly less natural means because 'all of it is change and change is neither good nor bad' or some bullshit like that is again, stupid and entirely besides the point.

I think the fundamental point of the quote isn't to say that humanity isn't capable of damaging the planet, but that the planet will eventually recover from any damage done to it by humans when humans are long since extinct.
 

Booser

Member
Sep 4, 2006
1,224
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0
I hate this quote and quotes like this with a passion.

If you view the planet as a floating ball of rock, then sure, it's not going anywhere. The delicate eco system that most sane individuals view as essentially the same thing? You can bet your ass that's going somewhere, and it ain't good.


I think the point is the earth has adapted to several climate shifts and extinction level events before.

By accelerating this we are only hurting ourselves. Once we are gone life will change and continue without us.
 

YourMaster

Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,451
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I've never measured that, but using the water bottle example, the volume changes based on its state. I would imagine it's the same thing, albeit harder to tell if you're measuring a couple ice cubes in a glass vs the entire glass.

Funny. If an iceberg is for 90% submerged, it is because the ice has 90% of the density of water. With 10% sticking out of the water, the volume of the iceberg below the waterline is exactly the volume that water of the same weight of the iceberg would have.
This is what the law of Archimedes is about.

So yes, having an ice cube melt inside a glass of water would keep the water level exactly the same. However, Antarctica has an ice sheet kilometers high on land, and when that gets into the water the sea-level will rise at some places.

Why not everywhere? Well, there's so much ice on Antarctica that it actually effects the center of gravity of the earth. Would it suddenly all melt, gravity itself would shift, with water levels actually decreasing at some parts of the world, and increasing a lot on others.
 

Shauni

Member
May 31, 2011
8,598
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Has there ever been a generation of people who didn't believe that they would witness the end of the world? I'm not worried. I'll just go to winchester, have a pint and wait for all of this to blow over.

There's truth here, but there's a lot of scientific evidence saying that we could very well be the ones if things don't turn around soon. There's already going to be huge damage even if somehow we manage to pull things together.
 

jstripes

Banned
Dec 9, 2012
13,478
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Jesus that's huge! So what's happens when it drifts South and melts? Will the ocean rise by a few mm?

Slight nit-pick: It's gonna drift north. It's breaking off of Antarctica.

Also, this massive iceberg alone won't raise the sea levels, it's already in the water, but from my understanding it breaking off will destabilize the ice shelf behind it, which will then gradually slide into the water.
 

Xe4

Banned
Aug 1, 2014
9,859
1
0
Physics Question:

Since the ice is already displacing water, it's not adding anything new to the ocean. Because water expands when it freezes (see: frozen water bottles), wouldn't the sea level decrease when this thing melts?

If anything, the reason the sea level rises is from all the junk and other fluids we toss in the ocean. That and sea life reproducing too fast.

At least, that's my hot take after waking up 5 minutes ago.

Not really, and even if it did the relationship would be complicated.

Water undergoes a density inversion when it freezes so that it is actually occupying less volume when it's cold and then more again when it's frozen. But this is for hundredths of a percent. That's a pretty negligible change in volume. When it gets further north the water expands, meaning sea ice is likely to add to volume further north rather than reduce it down south (if we're talking about the antarctic). What makes this negligible is that salinity also changes density, where salty water is more dense than fresh water/ice which is what this shelf is made of. All in all they cancel out.



This sea ice melting will take a while even when it does cleave, but when it does, the biggest effect will be an albedo change which will speed up AGW because of the oceans absorbing more water.
 
Jul 30, 2009
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I hate this quote and quotes like this with a passion.

If you view the planet as a floating ball of rock, then sure, it's not going anywhere. The delicate eco system that most sane individuals view as essentially the same thing? You can bet your ass that's going somewhere, and it ain't good.

We are going to another planet somewhere, sometime.

Once we drop this useless economy and start building what needs to be built, that is. xD

Really though, we're screwed.
 

Xe4

Banned
Aug 1, 2014
9,859
1
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It's good to see that so far it doesn't look like the rate of ice loss will be greater, as was predicted could have possibly happened.

The situation will continue to have to be monitored, but as far as ways this could have broken off, this is one of the better ones.

Still slightly worrysome, however.