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id Software pens open letter regarding the Doom Eternal OST and working with Mick Gordon

LordOfChaos

Member
Mar 31, 2014
11,769
7,162
985
Damn, it really does sound like they won't be working together again, like Mick had suggested earlier.


An open letter to the incredible DOOM community.

Over the past couple weeks, I’ve seen lots of discussion centered around the release of the DOOM Eternal Original Game Soundtrack (OST). While many fans like the OST, there is speculation and criticism around the fact that the game’s talented and popular composer, Mick Gordon, edited and “mixed” only 12 of the 59 tracks on the OST - the remainder being edited by our Lead Audio Designer here at id.

Some have suggested that we’ve been careless with or disrespectful of the game music. Others have speculated that Mick wasn’t given the time or creative freedom to deliver something different or better. The fact is – none of that is true.

What has become unacceptable to me are the direct and personal attacks on our Lead Audio Designer - particularly considering his outstanding contributions to the game – as well as the damage this mischaracterization is doing to the many talented people who have contributed to the game and continue to support it. I feel it is my responsibility to respond on their behalf. We’ve enjoyed an amazingly open and honest relationship with our fans, so given your passion on this topic and the depth of misunderstanding, I’m compelled to present the entire story.

When asked on social media about his future with DOOM, Mick has replied, “doubt we’ll work together again.” This was surprising to see, as we have never discussed ending our collaboration with him until now - but his statement does highlight a complicated relationship. Our challenges have never been a matter of creative differences. Mick has had near limitless creative autonomy over music composition and mixing in our recent DOOM games, and I think the results have been tremendous. His music is defining - and much like Bobby Prince’s music was synonymous with the original DOOM games from the 90s, Mick’s unique style and sound have become synonymous with our latest projects. He’s deserved every award won, and I hope his incredible score for DOOM Eternal is met with similar accolades – he will deserve them all.

Talent aside, we have struggled to connect on some of the more production-related realities of development, while communication around those issues have eroded trust. For id, this has created an unsustainable pattern of project uncertainty and risk.

At E3 last year, we announced that the OST would be included with the DOOM Eternal Collector’s Edition (CE) version of the game. At that point in time we didn’t have Mick under contract for the OST and because of ongoing issues receiving the music we needed for the game, did not want to add the distraction at that time. After discussions with Mick in January of this year, we reached general agreement on the terms for Mick to deliver the OST by early March - in time to meet the consumer commitment of including the digital OST with the DOOM Eternal CE at launch. The terms of the OST agreement with Mick were similar to the agreement on DOOM (2016) in that it required him to deliver a minimum of 12 tracks, but added bonus payments for on-time delivery. The agreement also gives him complete creative control over what he delivers.

On February 24, Mick reached out to communicate that he and his team were fine with the terms of the agreement but that there was a lot more work involved than anticipated, a lot of content to wade through, and that while he was making progress, it was taking longer than expected. He apologized and asked that “ideally” he be given an additional four weeks to get everything together. He offered that the extra time would allow him to provide upwards of 30 tracks and a run-time over two hours – including all music from the game, arranged in soundtrack format and as he felt it would best represent the score in the best possible way.

Mick’s request was accommodated, allowing for an even longer extension of almost six weeks – with a new final delivery date of mid-April. In that communication, we noted our understanding of him needing the extra time to ensure the OST meets his quality bar, and even moved the bonus payment for on-time delivery to align with the new dates so he could still receive the full compensation intended, which he will. In early March, we announced via Twitter that the OST component in the DOOM Eternal CE was delayed and would not be available as originally intended.

It’s important to note at this point that not only were we disappointed to not deliver the OST with the launch of the CE, we needed to be mindful of consumer protection laws in many countries that allow customers to demand a full refund for a product if a product is not delivered on or about its announced availability date. Even with that, the mid-April delivery would allow us to meet our commitments to customers while also allowing Mick the time he had ideally requested.

As we hit April, we grew increasingly concerned about Mick delivering the OST to us on time. I personally asked our Lead Audio Designer at id, Chad, to begin work on id versions of the tracks – a back-up plan should Mick not be able to deliver on time. To complete this, Chad would need to take all of the music as Mick had delivered for the game, edit the pieces together into tracks, and arrange those tracks into a comprehensive OST.

It is important to understand that there is a difference between music mixed for inclusion in the game and music mixed for inclusion in the OST. Several people have noted this difference when looking at the waveforms but have misunderstood why there is a difference. When a track looks “bricked” or like a bar, where the extreme highs and lows of the dynamic range are clipped, this is how we receive the music from Mick for inclusion in the game - in fragments pre-mixed and pre-compressed by him. Those music fragments he delivers then go into our audio system and are combined in real-time as you play through the game.

Alternatively, when mixing and mastering for an OST, Mick starts with his source material (which we don’t typically have access to) and re-mixes for the OST to ensure the highs and lows are not clipped – as seen in his 12 OST tracks. This is all important to note because Chad only had these pre-mixed and pre-compressed game fragments from Mick to work with in editing the id versions of the tracks. He simply edited the same music you hear in game to create a comprehensive OST – though some of the edits did require slight volume adjustments to prevent further clipping.

In early April, I sent an email to Mick reiterating the importance of hitting his extended contractual due date and outlined in detail the reasons we needed to meet our commitments to our customers. I let him know that Chad had started work on the back-up tracks but reiterated that our expectation and preference was to release what he delivered. Several days later, Mick suggested that he and Chad (working on the back-up) combine what each had been working on to come up with a more comprehensive release.

The next day, Chad informed Mick that he was rebuilding tracks based on the chunks/fragments mixed and delivered for the game. Mick replied that he personally was contracted for 12 tracks and suggested again that we use some of Chad’s arrangements to fill out the soundtrack beyond the 12 songs. Mick asked Chad to send over what he’d done so that he could package everything up and balance it all for delivery. As requested, Chad sent Mick everything he had done.

On the day the music was due from Mick, I asked what we could expect from him. Mick indicated that he was still finishing a number of things but that it would be no-less than 12 tracks and about 60 minutes of music and that it would come in late evening. The next morning, Mick informed us that he’d run into some issues with several tracks and that it would take additional time to finish, indicating he understood we were in a tight position for launching and asked how we’d like to proceed. We asked him to deliver the tracks he’d completed and then follow-up with the remaining tracks as soon as possible.

After listening to the 9 tracks he’d delivered, I wrote him that I didn’t think those tracks would meet the expectations of DOOM or Mick fans – there was only one track with the type of heavy-combat music people would expect, and most of the others were ambient in nature. I asked for a call to discuss. Instead, he replied that the additional tracks he was trying to deliver were in fact the combat tracks and that they are the most difficult to get right. He again suggested that if more heavy tracks are needed, Chad’s tracks could be used to flesh it out further.

After considering his recommendations, I let Mick know that we would move forward with the combined effort, to provide a more comprehensive collection of the music from the game. I let Mick know that Chad had ordered his edited tracks as a chronology of the game music and that to create the combined work, Chad would insert Mick‘s delivered tracks into the OST chronology where appropriate and then delete his own tracks containing similar thematic material. I said that if his additional combat tracks come in soon, we’d do the same to include them in the OST or offer them later as bonus tracks. Mick delivered 2 final tracks, which we incorporated, and he wished us luck wrapping it up. I thanked him and let him know that we’d be happy to deliver his final track as a bonus later on and reminded him of our plans for distribution of the OST first to CE owners, then later on other distribution platforms.

On April 19, we released the OST to CE owners. As mentioned earlier, soon after release, some of our fans noted and posted online the waveform difference between the tracks Mick had mixed from his source files and the tracks that Chad had edited from Mick's final game music, with Mick’s knowledge and at his suggestion.

In a reply to one fan, Mick said he, “didn’t mix those and wouldn’t have done that.” That, and a couple of other simple messages distancing from the realities and truths I’ve just outlined has generated unnecessary speculation and judgement - and led some to vilify and attack an id employee who had simply stepped up to the request of delivering a more comprehensive OST. Mick has shared with me that the attacks on Chad are distressing, but he’s done nothing to change the conversation.

After reaching out to Mick several times via email to understand what prompted his online posts, we were able to talk. He shared several issues that I’d also like to address.

First, he said that he was surprised by the scope of what was released – the 59 tracks. Chad had sent Mick everything more than a week before the final deadline, and I described to him our plan to combine the id-edited tracks with his own tracks (as he’d suggested doing). The tracks Mick delivered covered only a portion of the music in the game, so the only way to deliver a comprehensive OST was to combine the tracks Mick-delivered with the tracks id had edited from game music. If Mick is dissatisfied with the content of his delivery, we would certainly entertain distributing additional tracks.

I also know that Mick feels that some of the work included in the id-edited tracks was originally intended more as demos or mock-ups when originally sent. However, Chad only used music that was in-game or was part of a cinematic music construction kit.

Mick also communicated that he wasn’t particularly happy with some of the edits in the id tracks. I understand this from an artist’s perspective and realize this opinion is what prompted him to distance from the work in the first place. That said, from our perspective, we didn’t want to be involved in the content of the OST and did absolutely nothing to prevent him from delivering on his commitments within the timeframe he asked for, and we extended multiple times.

Finally, Mick was concerned that we’d given Chad co-composer credit – which we did not do and would never have done. In the metadata, Mick is listed as the sole composer and sole album artist. On tracks edited by id, Chad is listed as a contributing artist. That was the best option to clearly delineate for fans which tracks Mick delivered and which tracks id’s Lead Audio Designer had edited. It would have been misleading for us to attribute tracks solely to Mick that someone else had edited.

If you’ve read all of this, thank you for your time and attention. As for the immediate future, we are at the point of moving on and won’t be working with Mick on the DLC we currently have in production. As I’ve mentioned, his music is incredible, he is a rare talent, and I hope he wins many awards for his contribution to DOOM Eternal at the end of the year.

I’m as disappointed as anyone that we’re at this point, but as we have many times before, we will adapt to changing circumstances and pursue the most unique and talented artists in the industry with whom to collaborate. Our team has enjoyed this creative collaboration a great deal and we know Mick will continue to delight fans for many years ahead.

With respect and appreciation,

Marty Stratton
Executive Producer, DOOM Eternal
 

lrt75914

Member
Mar 8, 2014
236
152
550
Good lord what a rambling fucking novel just to say that things soured between the two parties and they're all going to remain professional.
If Marty didn't give as comprehensive of an account as he did, the internet would find a way to twist the narrative into whatever shape it wants.
Cleary he was trying to protect his employees from the shitstorm surrounding this story.

I know that people dislike Bethesda and id software by proxy, but if his account is to be believed I really don't see a reason why Mick reacted the
way he did. Seems like they tried everything they could to accommodate his artistic vision.
 

joe_zazen

Member
May 2, 2017
4,536
7,226
595
If Marty didn't give as comprehensive of an account as he did, the internet would find a way to twist the narrative into whatever shape it wants.
Cleary he was trying to protect his employees from the shitstorm surrounding this story.

I know that people dislike Bethesda and id software by proxy, but if his account is to be believed I really don't see a reason why Mick reacted the
way he did. Seems like they tried everything they could to accommodate his artistic vision.

no one is going to read that, good lord.
 

GamesAreFun

Member
Jul 27, 2018
442
697
370
Very interesting, clears id Software of any wrong-doing. Sounds like Mick was either lazy, over-committed, or had personal problems and simply didn't deliver the work he'd promised.

Personally I don't care much for the Doom music anyway, it's generic heavy metal. Certainly not a unique selling point like Martin O'Donnell for Halo or Jeremy Soule for Elderscrolls.
 

Piku_Ringo

Banned
Jan 24, 2015
5,747
6,541
780
Damn, it really does sound like they won't be working together again, like Mick had suggested earlier.


An open letter to the incredible DOOM community.

Over the past couple weeks, I’ve seen lots of discussion centered around the release of the DOOM Eternal Original Game Soundtrack (OST). While many fans like the OST, there is speculation and criticism around the fact that the game’s talented and popular composer, Mick Gordon, edited and “mixed” only 12 of the 59 tracks on the OST - the remainder being edited by our Lead Audio Designer here at id.

Some have suggested that we’ve been careless with or disrespectful of the game music. Others have speculated that Mick wasn’t given the time or creative freedom to deliver something different or better. The fact is – none of that is true.

What has become unacceptable to me are the direct and personal attacks on our Lead Audio Designer - particularly considering his outstanding contributions to the game – as well as the damage this mischaracterization is doing to the many talented people who have contributed to the game and continue to support it. I feel it is my responsibility to respond on their behalf. We’ve enjoyed an amazingly open and honest relationship with our fans, so given your passion on this topic and the depth of misunderstanding, I’m compelled to present the entire story.

When asked on social media about his future with DOOM, Mick has replied, “doubt we’ll work together again.” This was surprising to see, as we have never discussed ending our collaboration with him until now - but his statement does highlight a complicated relationship. Our challenges have never been a matter of creative differences. Mick has had near limitless creative autonomy over music composition and mixing in our recent DOOM games, and I think the results have been tremendous. His music is defining - and much like Bobby Prince’s music was synonymous with the original DOOM games from the 90s, Mick’s unique style and sound have become synonymous with our latest projects. He’s deserved every award won, and I hope his incredible score for DOOM Eternal is met with similar accolades – he will deserve them all.

Talent aside, we have struggled to connect on some of the more production-related realities of development, while communication around those issues have eroded trust. For id, this has created an unsustainable pattern of project uncertainty and risk.

At E3 last year, we announced that the OST would be included with the DOOM Eternal Collector’s Edition (CE) version of the game. At that point in time we didn’t have Mick under contract for the OST and because of ongoing issues receiving the music we needed for the game, did not want to add the distraction at that time. After discussions with Mick in January of this year, we reached general agreement on the terms for Mick to deliver the OST by early March - in time to meet the consumer commitment of including the digital OST with the DOOM Eternal CE at launch. The terms of the OST agreement with Mick were similar to the agreement on DOOM (2016) in that it required him to deliver a minimum of 12 tracks, but added bonus payments for on-time delivery. The agreement also gives him complete creative control over what he delivers.

On February 24, Mick reached out to communicate that he and his team were fine with the terms of the agreement but that there was a lot more work involved than anticipated, a lot of content to wade through, and that while he was making progress, it was taking longer than expected. He apologized and asked that “ideally” he be given an additional four weeks to get everything together. He offered that the extra time would allow him to provide upwards of 30 tracks and a run-time over two hours – including all music from the game, arranged in soundtrack format and as he felt it would best represent the score in the best possible way.

Mick’s request was accommodated, allowing for an even longer extension of almost six weeks – with a new final delivery date of mid-April. In that communication, we noted our understanding of him needing the extra time to ensure the OST meets his quality bar, and even moved the bonus payment for on-time delivery to align with the new dates so he could still receive the full compensation intended, which he will. In early March, we announced via Twitter that the OST component in the DOOM Eternal CE was delayed and would not be available as originally intended.

It’s important to note at this point that not only were we disappointed to not deliver the OST with the launch of the CE, we needed to be mindful of consumer protection laws in many countries that allow customers to demand a full refund for a product if a product is not delivered on or about its announced availability date. Even with that, the mid-April delivery would allow us to meet our commitments to customers while also allowing Mick the time he had ideally requested.

As we hit April, we grew increasingly concerned about Mick delivering the OST to us on time. I personally asked our Lead Audio Designer at id, Chad, to begin work on id versions of the tracks – a back-up plan should Mick not be able to deliver on time. To complete this, Chad would need to take all of the music as Mick had delivered for the game, edit the pieces together into tracks, and arrange those tracks into a comprehensive OST.

It is important to understand that there is a difference between music mixed for inclusion in the game and music mixed for inclusion in the OST. Several people have noted this difference when looking at the waveforms but have misunderstood why there is a difference. When a track looks “bricked” or like a bar, where the extreme highs and lows of the dynamic range are clipped, this is how we receive the music from Mick for inclusion in the game - in fragments pre-mixed and pre-compressed by him. Those music fragments he delivers then go into our audio system and are combined in real-time as you play through the game.

Alternatively, when mixing and mastering for an OST, Mick starts with his source material (which we don’t typically have access to) and re-mixes for the OST to ensure the highs and lows are not clipped – as seen in his 12 OST tracks. This is all important to note because Chad only had these pre-mixed and pre-compressed game fragments from Mick to work with in editing the id versions of the tracks. He simply edited the same music you hear in game to create a comprehensive OST – though some of the edits did require slight volume adjustments to prevent further clipping.

In early April, I sent an email to Mick reiterating the importance of hitting his extended contractual due date and outlined in detail the reasons we needed to meet our commitments to our customers. I let him know that Chad had started work on the back-up tracks but reiterated that our expectation and preference was to release what he delivered. Several days later, Mick suggested that he and Chad (working on the back-up) combine what each had been working on to come up with a more comprehensive release.

The next day, Chad informed Mick that he was rebuilding tracks based on the chunks/fragments mixed and delivered for the game. Mick replied that he personally was contracted for 12 tracks and suggested again that we use some of Chad’s arrangements to fill out the soundtrack beyond the 12 songs. Mick asked Chad to send over what he’d done so that he could package everything up and balance it all for delivery. As requested, Chad sent Mick everything he had done.

On the day the music was due from Mick, I asked what we could expect from him. Mick indicated that he was still finishing a number of things but that it would be no-less than 12 tracks and about 60 minutes of music and that it would come in late evening. The next morning, Mick informed us that he’d run into some issues with several tracks and that it would take additional time to finish, indicating he understood we were in a tight position for launching and asked how we’d like to proceed. We asked him to deliver the tracks he’d completed and then follow-up with the remaining tracks as soon as possible.

After listening to the 9 tracks he’d delivered, I wrote him that I didn’t think those tracks would meet the expectations of DOOM or Mick fans – there was only one track with the type of heavy-combat music people would expect, and most of the others were ambient in nature. I asked for a call to discuss. Instead, he replied that the additional tracks he was trying to deliver were in fact the combat tracks and that they are the most difficult to get right. He again suggested that if more heavy tracks are needed, Chad’s tracks could be used to flesh it out further.

After considering his recommendations, I let Mick know that we would move forward with the combined effort, to provide a more comprehensive collection of the music from the game. I let Mick know that Chad had ordered his edited tracks as a chronology of the game music and that to create the combined work, Chad would insert Mick‘s delivered tracks into the OST chronology where appropriate and then delete his own tracks containing similar thematic material. I said that if his additional combat tracks come in soon, we’d do the same to include them in the OST or offer them later as bonus tracks. Mick delivered 2 final tracks, which we incorporated, and he wished us luck wrapping it up. I thanked him and let him know that we’d be happy to deliver his final track as a bonus later on and reminded him of our plans for distribution of the OST first to CE owners, then later on other distribution platforms.

On April 19, we released the OST to CE owners. As mentioned earlier, soon after release, some of our fans noted and posted online the waveform difference between the tracks Mick had mixed from his source files and the tracks that Chad had edited from Mick's final game music, with Mick’s knowledge and at his suggestion.

In a reply to one fan, Mick said he, “didn’t mix those and wouldn’t have done that.” That, and a couple of other simple messages distancing from the realities and truths I’ve just outlined has generated unnecessary speculation and judgement - and led some to vilify and attack an id employee who had simply stepped up to the request of delivering a more comprehensive OST. Mick has shared with me that the attacks on Chad are distressing, but he’s done nothing to change the conversation.

After reaching out to Mick several times via email to understand what prompted his online posts, we were able to talk. He shared several issues that I’d also like to address.

First, he said that he was surprised by the scope of what was released – the 59 tracks. Chad had sent Mick everything more than a week before the final deadline, and I described to him our plan to combine the id-edited tracks with his own tracks (as he’d suggested doing). The tracks Mick delivered covered only a portion of the music in the game, so the only way to deliver a comprehensive OST was to combine the tracks Mick-delivered with the tracks id had edited from game music. If Mick is dissatisfied with the content of his delivery, we would certainly entertain distributing additional tracks.

I also know that Mick feels that some of the work included in the id-edited tracks was originally intended more as demos or mock-ups when originally sent. However, Chad only used music that was in-game or was part of a cinematic music construction kit.

Mick also communicated that he wasn’t particularly happy with some of the edits in the id tracks. I understand this from an artist’s perspective and realize this opinion is what prompted him to distance from the work in the first place. That said, from our perspective, we didn’t want to be involved in the content of the OST and did absolutely nothing to prevent him from delivering on his commitments within the timeframe he asked for, and we extended multiple times.

Finally, Mick was concerned that we’d given Chad co-composer credit – which we did not do and would never have done. In the metadata, Mick is listed as the sole composer and sole album artist. On tracks edited by id, Chad is listed as a contributing artist. That was the best option to clearly delineate for fans which tracks Mick delivered and which tracks id’s Lead Audio Designer had edited. It would have been misleading for us to attribute tracks solely to Mick that someone else had edited.

If you’ve read all of this, thank you for your time and attention. As for the immediate future, we are at the point of moving on and won’t be working with Mick on the DLC we currently have in production. As I’ve mentioned, his music is incredible, he is a rare talent, and I hope he wins many awards for his contribution to DOOM Eternal at the end of the year.

I’m as disappointed as anyone that we’re at this point, but as we have many times before, we will adapt to changing circumstances and pursue the most unique and talented artists in the industry with whom to collaborate. Our team has enjoyed this creative collaboration a great deal and we know Mick will continue to delight fans for many years ahead.

With respect and appreciation,

Marty Stratton
Executive Producer, DOOM Eternal
to sum things up for the tl;dr peeps viewing this


 

lrt75914

Member
Mar 8, 2014
236
152
550
Sorry bros, but you can write and entire book of all the why's and how's and if's.

No Mick no Money. Won't be buying the DLC and sure as fuck won't be buying another Doom title
Wouldn't it be more appropriate to wait and see how the DLC is going to turn out? I know Mick's score
was a big part of Doom 2016 atmosphere and it sucks that he won't be working on their future projects.
But suggesting that future releases are not worth your time and money solely because he is not
involved seems a bit overzealous.
 

Bladed Thesis

Member
Jun 7, 2019
2,200
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480
This doesn't make Mick look good at all. Definitely on him and I'd imagine they wouldn't post a statement like this without evidence (emails, etc) to back it up.

He delayed, delayed, delayed, still wasn't on time and said "best of luck" only to complain later? Yikes.
 

magaman

Banned
Oct 19, 2017
546
996
360
This account is years old and I'm only now motivated to respond to anything.

Why is a thorough explanation of facts suddenly viewed as negative?

Good lord what a rambling fucking novel just to say that things soured between the two parties and they're all going to remain professional.

If it was a novella, you'd complain that details were left out. If it was even shorter, the internet would lambast the claims and label them "unfounded."

Basically, id is in a no-win situation here. Mick is highly regarded, blindly so as evidenced by some in this thread. If they respond with thoroughness, they are viewed as "rambling." If they don't respond, they have something to hide.

tl;dr for the children without attention spans: Get a life.
 

TriSuit666

Member
Jul 2, 2018
1,220
1,085
385
Very interesting, clears id Software of any wrong-doing. Sounds like Mick was either lazy, over-committed, or had personal problems and simply didn't deliver the work he'd promised.

Personally I don't care much for the Doom music anyway, it's generic heavy metal. Certainly not a unique selling point like Martin O'Donnell for Halo or Jeremy Soule for Elderscrolls.

or... maaaaaybe it was just a complex project.

 

cireza

Member
Jun 1, 2014
8,005
6,516
700
He didn't deliver the tracks on time, then gave his blessings for Id to mix the tracks
He probably did not have a choice here. Id had promised the OST, they did not have the choice but to deliver it, with or without Mick.

The person who somehow built the tracks for the OST should not be blamed. Just like Mick, he basically did not have the choice.

I see higher ranks taking a decision, and asking two other persons to assume. A quality OST could have been delivered separately later.
 
Last edited:

Nymphae

Banned
Jun 3, 2013
14,670
22,901
1,235
Canada
That was interesting. Mick's output is great but Doom doesn't need him, by the sounds of that he was given more than enough opportunity to deliver here and came up short. Here's hoping for Sonic Mayhem in the next one.
 
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lrt75914

Member
Mar 8, 2014
236
152
550
or... maaaaaybe it was just a complex project.

Still doesn't explain his reaction. There are certain realities you have to deal
with when making a game. Trying to keep a release date is one of them.
People would have been royally pissed if the release date had been
pushed back due to issues with the soundtrack,

I'm sure he is unhappy with the way his artistic vision was represented in
the CE. However, id seemingly tried everything they could to accommodate him.
Blasting them for the final mix after approving it internally was really uncalled for.
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
46,637
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Damn, there are more words in that letter than scale progressions in the entire two Doom soundtracks, combined.
 

iconmaster

Banned
Jul 18, 2013
7,491
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I read all of it. Very interesting. I'm glad Id was willing to put this out there.

Mick has an opportunity to respond but if the open letter is approximately accurate, the classy thing for him to do would be to contribute to an OST followup release.
 

lrt75914

Member
Mar 8, 2014
236
152
550
What baffles me is that Mick Gordon was unable to finish the soundtrack on time.
Most of the music for the game must have been in place once 2020 came rolling
around. Even if he needed to rework some of the arrangements, 4 Months seems
plenty enough time to finish an OST album.
 
Last edited:

MiguelItUp

Gold Member
Feb 24, 2015
6,261
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800
Long AF, yeah, but I really do appreciate Marty doing this. Honestly, they really didn't have to say anything, especially something that reads so personal.

Definitely sounds like if anyone was at fault here it was Mick. I mean, to have to keep pushing things back like that. It's a shame for id, and well, Bethesda. Which I love and care about id a lot more than Bethesda.

It's a shame that there is going to be more content made without him, but I'm sure it will be just fine. If not better, who knows?
 
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CuteFaceJay

Member
Sep 11, 2019
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This explains the delay in the games content and patching. This post so long he prolly had to write it during development to make sure this post could be made live a month after the game released.

All jokes aside, Kinda sad but I guess we know why things were held up and why the sound track ain't that hot with this game. Either way I've gone back to 2016 to play Deathmatch.
 

lrt75914

Member
Mar 8, 2014
236
152
550
This explains the delay in the games content and patching. This post so long he prolly had to write it during development to make sure this post could be made live a month after the game released.

All jokes aside, Kinda sad but I guess we know why things were held up and why the sound track ain't that hot with this game. Either way I've gone back to 2016 to play Deathmatch.
I take it you're not that keen on Doom Eternal?
 

CuteFaceJay

Member
Sep 11, 2019
1,288
721
335
I take it you're not that keen on Doom Eternal?

The SP is good but the fact the game has a piss poor Multiplayer with zero deathmatch. No Arcade mode and no snap map, Yeah kinda bummed out that the game didn't have a full package like what 2016 has.

I've pumped just under 60hours into this game and feel no need to go back to it. The whole idea they had hyped this as some kind of game that'll make people want to come back for more with the lacking challenges for EXP on lame customisation just make me not want to come back.

It's for sure an odd one.
 
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I read the whole thing, if 100% true then it sounds like Mick Gordon was having a lot of trouble completing his duties on time and iD was putting themselves at risk waiting for him due to certain laws in some countries that would allow for full refunds because the OST hadn't arrived with the game. I can't say I blame them, we can wait and see what Mick's side of this is, I think everyone wants to have Mick's side because his music is amazing but we should take into account the possibility that part of making his music amazing is a level of perfectionism that can't meet deadlines.
 

MiguelItUp

Gold Member
Feb 24, 2015
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The SP is good but the fact the game has a piss poor Multiplayer with zero deathmatch. No Arcade mode and no snap map, Yeah kinda bummed out that the game didn't have a full package like what 2016 has.

I've pumped just under 60hours into this game and feel no need to go back to it. The whole idea they had hyped this as some kind of game that'll make people want to come back for more with the lacking challenges for EXP on lame customisation just make me not want to come back.

It's for sure an odd one.
I keep going back to complete challenges really. I've beaten it so many times, haha. But yeah, Battle Mode just straight up sucks IMO. It was fine for an hour, but that "meat" that they said it would have just feels absent. To me it honestly feels like 2016's Deathmatch was more of a fully baked game mode. But 2016 in general just came with more at launch. 🤷‍♂️

Still absolutely adore Eternal, but all that stuff is weird to me.

I read the whole thing, if 100% true then it sounds like Mick Gordon was having a lot of trouble completing his duties on time and iD was putting themselves at risk waiting for him due to certain laws in some countries that would allow for full refunds because the OST hadn't arrived with the game. I can't say I blame them, we can wait and see what Mick's side of this is, I think everyone wants to have Mick's side because his music is amazing but we should take into account the possibility that part of making his music amazing is a level of perfectionism that can't meet deadlines.
Exactly, I wholeheartedly agree. I can't even imagine how they felt when they originally planned to launch with the OST, but had to say it was delayed. I mean, it sucks for them. The fact that wasn't even the last delay sounds wild too. Don't know if Mick was overwhelmed, hitting writer's block, had personal things, or what. But it would be cool to hear what he has to say about this.
 
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lrt75914

Member
Mar 8, 2014
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The SP is good but the fact the game has a piss poor Multiplayer with zero deathmatch. No Arcade mode and no snap map, Yeah kinda bummed out that the game didn't have a full package like what 2016 has.

I've pumped just under 60hours into this game and feel no need to go back to it. The whole idea they had hyped this as some kind of game that'll make people want to come back for more with the lacking challenges for EXP on lame customisation just make me not want to come back.

It's for sure an odd one.
That's a shame. I was swamped with work the past couple of weeks so I couldn't find the time to play Eternal. Guess I can wait for the next sale before I pick it up.
 
Jul 6, 2015
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Yea that makes Mick sound like a nightmare to work with but his work is so good it would be a shame to not have his music in the next DOOM.
 

ThatGamingDude

I am a virgin
Aug 30, 2018
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At E3 last year, we announced that the OST would be included with the DOOM Eternal Collector’s Edition (CE) version of the game. At that point in time we didn’t have Mick under contract for the OST and because of ongoing issues receiving the music we needed for the game, did not want to add the distraction at that time.
ID: We have a product for you!
Also ID: We have no plan to bring such product to fruition!

*After E3*

ID: Hey uh, Mick, wanna finalize the paperwork on the OST,,,?

This is a whole lotta "We didn't manage the project correctly," and a bunch more "BUT IT'S THE OTHER PARTIES FAULT!"

No one is being taken to court? It's both parties fault; if not there would be a law suit at hand.

Trying to throw shade or explain your way out of it is bull shit unless you're backing it up with factual proof

Ya fucked up a project; maybe next time don't do Anthem style announcement on your team and expect "Magic," to solve it.
 

Helscream

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Nov 11, 2011
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From what I can gather after reading this, at face value. Marty comes off as a decent Boss looking after one of his guys. Granted if what was written down is true, Mick Gordon seems like he was taking his sweet time or simply did not take his commitment seriously enough to complete his work. Mick Gordon has brought alot to the DOOM series with his music, and in interviews he seems like a really good dude. However I think his work ethic is poor.
 

lrt75914

Member
Mar 8, 2014
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ID: We have a product for you!
Also ID: We have no plan to bring such product to fruition!

*After E3*

ID: Hey uh, Mick, wanna finalize the paperwork on the OST,,,?

This is a whole lotta "We didn't manage the project correctly," and a bunch more "BUT IT'S THE OTHER PARTIES FAULT!"

No one is being taken to court? It's both parties fault; if not there would be a law suit at hand.

Trying to throw shade or explain your way out of it is bull shit unless you're backing it up with factual proof

Ya fucked up a project; maybe next time don't do Anthem style announcement on your team and expect "Magic," to solve it.
Maybe he wasn't hired to produce the soundtrack at the time, but to say they had no plan to bring the project to
fruition is a bit bizarre. They clearly allotted the time he said he needed to finish the OST and even allowed for
additional time once it became clear the first deadline was not going to hold. They also had Chad working on
their own version of the OST to make sure they had a product ready to be shipped. Sounds to me like management
did everything they could to make sure they could keep their promise.
 

DGrayson

Mod Team and Bat Team
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Dec 5, 2017
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I'm usually the first to bag on AAA corporate speak but I read everything and appreciate the transparency from ID.

Would like to hear the other side of course but I think that statement above is pretty fair. Working with artists is tough, sometimes the business side has to come first.
 

ThatGamingDude

I am a virgin
Aug 30, 2018
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Maybe he wasn't hired to produce the soundtrack at the time, but to say they had no plan to bring the project to
fruition is a bit bizarre. They clearly allotted the time he said he needed to finish the OST and even allowed for
additional time once it became clear the first deadline was not going to hold. They also had Chad working on
their own version of the OST to make sure they had a product ready to be shipped. Sounds to me like management
did everything they could to make sure they could keep their promise.
That's not how it works in business
You don't announce something with it not being already a concrete plan; it's the best path for product development

If I don't have the dude contracted, I don't have a sure fire plan that the product I am guaranteeing customers or the investors will come to fruition. Fuck, Mick could've been like "Nawh, don't want to do the Doom Eternal OST."

Allotting time, planning everything, all that sort of stuff doesn't mean ANYTHING if you haven't ensured those plans will happen.
It'd be like stating you're going to have a building constructed, but not even having a construction contract up to bid on yet, and just having plans to create the contract up for bidding.

Sure, they could have gone with someone else to master the OST, but it's incredibly dumb and a complete risky move for investors to hop in a venture of "If we can get Mick," instead of "We have Mick."
It's a complete noob business mistake

Hence the damage control; plan your projects properly and you don't have to do dumb damage control.

EDIT: Fuck me and talking with people with similar names as people in the OP
 
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TwiztidElf

Member
Mar 5, 2005
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This is the result of public perception being wildly different to reality.
Imagine being that EP, knowing the full story and details, THEN having your team cop a bashing from the public. No wonder he dropped the full timeline.
 

Patrick S.

Amiga Forever
May 4, 2013
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Man, id really bent over backwards to accomodate Mr. Gordon, and he still didn't deliver. This open letter could potentially end Mr. Gordon's career as a contractor for game soundtracks, because honestly, who would want to work with someone like that? Dooms music was good, yes, but I never understood the orgasmic hype levels people had for it. I'm sure there are enough composers around who can put out music like that, and act professionally while they're at it.
 
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