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[Puru]

I only tried ReBirth 1 and Monster Monpiece from them.

Honestly, the former is bad but fill it's niche pretty well and the gameplay while not being interesting is somewhat enjoyable at first. I couldn't finish it but i don't regret spending 8 bucks or something for it.
I actually found the second one somewhat fun to play, too bad the AI is retarded up to where i tried it. Story side was meh though, it wasn't really fun even as low tier humor and was more on the serious side in a game that doesn't scream serious whatsoever.

I don't see any reason to hate them, they make low budget game for a niche, and seems to actually make decent PC ports (them actually making PC ports is already nice on it's own actually). Their game seems to sell well to their playerbase, their playerbase is happy, they are doing their job.

 

[ZoddGutts]

A mediocre dev that targets a specific audience with their games who don't really care much for quality rpg's to begin with. Gust at least makes decent games with decent budgets put into them.

 

[Coxy]

They made a lot of terrible games in the past but people got so invested in hating on them they refuse to give them credit for genuinely improving and often without even giving their games a fair shake.

 

[Falk]

Fair enough! I haven't played Neptunia, but what you say does make a lot of sense. The less wittier references are going to be targeting the lowest common denominator, and thus will be shared more, and the best, most tailored references (like the commentary on the Japanese games industry that you mention) are probably going to be missed by a large proportion of western players for understandable reasons.

Diving a little deeper into this, anecdotally, a lot of people I know playing Hyperdimension Neptunia in English get 90% of the Wii references, about maybe 50-50 on the SEGA (Neptunia) and Playstation references, and close to nothing outside of Touhou with regards to XBox references.

This is pretty much in line with how much of a console's output originating with from Japan has western exposure. Virtually all the cameos are by Japanese developers and their games. You'd think that you'd hear at least a hint of stuff like CoD, Gears of War, Halo, Assassin's Creed, Skyrim, etc. in a game about the game industry, but it's all very conspicuously absent. (edit: Outside of a bone thrown here and there by the localization) On the other hand, Mario and crew are pretty much all over the Wii cameo appearances.

PCs are associated mainly with MMOs and BBS. Piracy and modding are lumped together. Neptunia panders to Japanese subculture through and through.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

I don't see any reason to hate them, they make low budget game for a niche, and seems to actually make decent PC ports (them actually making PC ports is already nice on it's own actually). Their game seems to sell well to their playerbase, their playerbase is happy, they are doing their job.

I don't see any reason to hate them either. I'll simply play what I want to, and last year, Monster Monpiece and Sorcery Saga basically quenched my thirst for a competent card battler and a competent roguelike at the time. 868-HACK turned out to be a far cleverer roguelike, mind, but Sorcery Saga was *good enough*. You can see the business decisions shining through in how Idea Factory target a particular audience, that's perhaps a necessary evil as it were to keep their projects going.

Though I think some posters have raised a good point about how the stigma surrounding them hasn't done any favours for games coming out of other companies, like Intelligent Systems. So while their games do only suit a comparatively small audience compared to the big hitters, the most vocal fans and haters are going to have the loudest voices, and these things carry far across internet message boards and such.

 

[Starwolf_UK]

Disclaimer: The only Compile Heart/Idea Factory game I've played is Octmania. I do have Agarest: Generations of War idling in my Steam library though...

I see its existence in a similar light to Sonic fanart. It is potential ammunition to be used against you during a discussion on anything to do with the subject or dominate the subject at hand and kind of makes you not want to talk about such things. But at the end of the day that is more about other people than it does you.

If you want to play IF games the existence of some aspects attaches a stigma and makes the thing more into a guilty pleasure because there are some bits you just have to go through with a "I know this is here because it is the reason for 50% of the sales but it so distasteful". Coming back to other people, there is that one game that gets nearly all its threads locked (Monster Monpiece) due to discussion becoming toxic for having a lewd minigames and some art later on. The LTTP title was spot-on I feel.

Maybe there is a mix of envy as in "My AAA JRPG is dead but these C-tier ones won't stop coming out every 2 months. Where is the justice?".

But when those aspects enter the mainstream it is like I said here (complete with IF):

I hate Awakening and Fates for dragging the public perception of this series into the Idea Factory gutter.

These aspects can end up dominating the conversation. Though to be fair to Fire Emblem thesis length character debates were not exactly healthy either. The name drop was more of a I associate IF with having to deploy these things for sales but perhaps I should be asking "Are sales so poor developers have to put these things in to get the additional otaku sell. What is going on with this industry?"

faked edit: It seems in the time I spent dwelling on this around other tasks I've been somewhat beaten to the punch.

 

[rhandino]

I never played a game made by them (I was interested in Fairy Fencer F tho) but from what I gathered they at least seem to know and cater to their audience, are pushing for PS4 and PC and their games seem to be improving with each installment.

At least they provide me with the occasional laugh when people gave them more credit than they deserve with the "CH + IF are ruining my JRPG's"

 

[Jawmuncher]

They're ok in my book. Even their lower fare I have played I still ended up enjoying in some ways.

 

[Shinriji]

Spectral Souls are awesome, all of them. Generation of Chaos can be hit or miss. Neptunia, Fairy Fencer and Omega Quintet are worse than trash-tier games, alright.

And Spectral vs Generation is the GOAT.

 

[thelastcrusader]

I like them and their games and appreciate that they come west. A little fan service is fine by me.

 

[Chaos17]

Depending of the games, they can be great or average or bad.
Personally, I'm happy with the Agarest serie they published on Steam.

A little fan service is fine by me.

Agree.

 

[striferser]

They know their target market well enough. They cater to them. Do i need to be angry at them for doing what they did best?
No way they are the devil of RPG series.

 

[SerTapTap]

They made a lot of terrible games in the past but people got so invested in hating on them they refuse to give them credit for genuinely improving and often without even giving their games a fair shake.

This is another thing, having played all the neptunia games (except 1, but I've heard how bad it is), it's really amazing how much they improve each time. Every installment is a big step up (less so with the rebirths since they're remakes, but even then they find cool stuff to add and improve on). All this despite all the posts in the thread claiming they're for people who don't care about quality.

It's a damn shame so many players can't respect a low budget dev that's constantly improving. Gotta be a huge AAA that's been around 20+ years or a famous creator gone indie, no one is allowed to (ugh) improve.

It's also kind of amazing how little credit they get for things like great music (Nobuo Uematsu was composer for Victory btw), highly popular characters, great writing (why do so few gamers have a sense of humor for anything that isn't image macros)

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

The shit game design, the shit writing, the shit fanservice, the shit everything, Of course the things I hate you probably love so w/e

^Does this count as literal shit posting?

 

[Anne]

I wouldn't call them the problem with JRPGs, but their output for several years was absolutely garbage. They've taken steps to go from garbage level to at least passable these days and are making improvements, but nothing of theirs has really risen above the mediocre mark yet. I have no beef with playing one of their passable games, which are more common these days, and enjoying it even though I know it's not great. It's cathartic, and the aesthetic is something I'm more comfortable with than most western games at the moment.

TBH, I think a major part about them being so popular here is the fact there's a fanbase for that type of content, and they are absolutely starved on games to enjoy. IF are the only people who are budget friendly enough to keep pushing out so many games and getting them over to the west, and they often end up affordable enough to get. The Atelier games fall into a similar group(I play a lot of "7/10 quality" Atelier games), as do the Tales games, but they all tend to grab different groups.

I wouldn't call them the devil or say they're the downfall of everything JRPG by any means . They're just a budget company putting out good enough stuff for a starved ass market. Same reason people buy the newest mediocre XSEED or Atlus or whatever localization, it appeals to them and it's good enough.

 

[Durante]

Atelier games don't fall into a similar group. They are 10/10

Well, I guess Gust does fall into the same group as IF in one aspect: they actually know how to execute and don't need 6 years to create a console JRPG.

 

[Supermanisdead]

They are the premiere anime dogshit developer. But they know they've cornered the market as far as anime dogshit rpgs go so good for them and good for fans of anime dogshit.

 

[Myriadis]

I don't think thata any of them are actually well known, I certainly don't know what they are about. Given that the majority of gamers likely looks to stuff like final fantasy when they think about JRpgs I doubt that it will ruin the reputation.

 

[Game Guru]

For all of the complaints Idea Factory gets, they are a very niche company who makes very niche games. However, they are actually managed competently compared to most other Japanese video game companies. Idea Factory was just lucky enough to have ended up as one of the few Japanese console publishers left and this is because they know what their very niche audience wants. Idea Factory's games are only more noticeable to us because they are one of the few Japanese console publishers left now that the majority of the Japanese video game industry are on mobile. I mean, how many people focusing on consoles know that Kemco makes iOS and Android JRPGs nowadays? The console focused seem to almost completely ignore mobile so that someone like Kemco ends up being a relative unknown to them while they rail on about how Compile Heart has corrupted JRPGs.

 

[Anne]

Atelier games don't fall into a similar group. They are 10/10

Well, I guess Gust does fall into the same group as IF in one aspect: they actually know how to execute and don't need 6 years to create a console JRPG.

I'll give you that Atelier games are more consistent in quality, but I mean they don't really do much

Mostly replying to say that IF games are the extreme of this. If you wanna play anything like Nep aesthetically or thematically, you're probably going to give up and buy the next Nep because you don't have much else as far as options go.

 

[Mihos]

Man, I like the IF games. Not every game is great, but I enjoy a higher percentage IF games than I do Ubisoft games.

 

[Coxy]

^Does this count as literal shit posting?

it's more

 

[Sakura]

Personally I have no interest in their games, or at least all the recent ones, Neptunia and all that. I think they look like trash. And I love anime and visual novels and shit.

But, I still think it is cool that they are successful and can manage to keep releasing games for their audience. They don't appeal to what I like, and that's fine. I don't really like when I see people complain about their games or whatever, because not every game has to be for you. Some people out there like that stuff, so just let them enjoy it.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

Whilst my only real exposure to CH/IF is through the ReBirth games, any JRPG fan who writes off Rebirth 2 as a simple, fan service laden, cash in, low production value mess is woefully ignorant.

 

[Falk]

low production value.

There's a difference between the usual connotation of "low production value" vs "low production value done well".

Neptunia games simply do not have a large budget.

edit: This is an OCD case-in-point. In the Japanese dub of Rebirth 1 on Steam, whenever there's a line of dialogue with multiple characters talking at once (simultaneous exclamations, etc) there's a very audible pop at the start and end of the audio clip. Someone didn't do their DC filters properly.

 

[dwr]

I'm much more offended by overpriced DLCs and Season Passes, garbage PC ports, pointless always online policies, broken games that require multiple patches to be playable, DRM solutions etc. than a pair of bouncing tits.

To each their own, I guess.

Monster Monpiece artworks crossed the line for me and I never had the desire to know much about the game itself, but Neptunia games are fun, Agarest and Spectral Souls were great.

I'm quite curious about Atelier games, I bought Ayesha for the Vita since it was on sale, but I still haven't found the time to play it yet.

 

[Falk]

I'm quite curious about Atelier games, I bought Ayesha for the Vita since it was on sale, but I still haven't found the time to play it yet.

If you liked Neptunia's combat, you're gonna love the Atelier series.

 

[Taruranto]

Their games are really very entertaining and fun, and not "perverted" at all as some might have you believe.

 

[Supermanisdead]

Poor killer bee, all she has is a cute butt

 

[Sakura]

Have we reached a point where something as innocuous as a cute butt is considered perverted?

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

I have only finished Neptunia Victory for PS3, and the game was okay.

I actually think it's great thst they have improved with the years, as the first Neptunia game was complete shit and the newest omes are pretty fine.

They also one of the first devs that are getting several JRPGs on Steam, I can't hate them becsuse of that.

 

[Falk]

Have we reached a point where something as innocuous as a cute butt is considered perverted?

"Rub P"

Probably not the most obvious or best example of a screenshot but I think he meant to reference the game itself.

 

[fatgamecat]

Idea Factory are successful RPG makers. Why do you think Fire Emblem devs are doing everything they can to copy the formula of flimsy/grindy gameplay and tons of fanservice?

 

[YianGaruga]

Have we reached a point where something as innocuous as a cute butt is considered perverted?

There are people who call Neptunia perverted and disgusting.
I have no idea what the word means anymore

 

[HawthorneKitty]

There's a difference between the usual connotation of "low production value" vs "low production value done well".

Neptunia games simply do not have a large budget.

edit: This is an OCD case-in-point. In the Japanese dub of Rebirth 1 on Steam, whenever there's a line of dialogue with multiple characters talking at once (simultaneous exclamations, etc) there's a very audible pop at the start and end of the audio clip. Someone didn't do their DC filters properly.

Why would anyone play in Japanese when there's Melissa Fahn?

 

[Azure Phoenix]

I honestly cannot stand the constant shit posting comments regarding CH/IF, they rarely seem to be well constructed criticisms from someone who has actually tried the products they are criticising. They usually boil down to "I played this game of their 6 years ago and it sucked, therefore anything they ever make is shit" or "X won't make my favourite standard RPG series any more, why do these weeb anime RPGs exist?". The Neptunia series is seriously enjoyable and a number of their other recent titles have been fun as well. They are definitely flawed and often heavily re-use assets, but these games are all being done on very small budgets that ensure the expected sub-50k sales figures will still be profitable. Plus they have been slowly refining the games with each instalment, going by Neptunia Victory 2 I would actually put them as being on par with the Tales or Atelier games in terms of production quality.

Most of the anger towards IF/CH really needs to be directed back where it belongs, at the door of the larger Japanese publishers who have abandoned many older RPG franchises. All CH/IF are doing is making enjoyable, small budget RPGs for a small audience, something people are all too quick to get vocal about when it comes to complaining about the lack of anything between indie and AAA tiers these days.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

I do not give a fuck about what they do, I just hate it when other companies who didn't do their brand of lowbrow, trope fetishizing creeper-bait start doing their brand of lowbrow, trope fetishizing creeper-bait due to bad feedback and trend following.

more like bad idea factory

The W!AHP crew said it's Idea Fuck, so it's Idea Fuck.

 

[Taruranto]

Have we reached a point where something as innocuous as a cute butt is considered perverted?

I'd post more stuff, but it's hard to find a screenshout from a CH game that wouldn't get me banned.

 

[djplaeskool]

More developer/publishers should adopt their tenets of having a reasonable timetable and output, keeping budgets under control, not being fearful of expansion into new platforms and markets, garnering new and existing talent into their ranks on a near constant basis, seeking out collaborative projects, and understanding their audience.

I, for one, welcome our new NepNep overlords.

Spoiler

Seriously though, I like their games

The persistent (and most of the time blindly ignorant) shit-posting regarding their titles only gives them more power.

 

[vareon]

I think they're too niche to be called "ruining RPG"? Like they found their market and they keep serving them, but I don't see them doing any harm. In fact it's kind of commendable that they can keep churning consistent output.

 

[Auskeek]

When I was going through a massive anime phase, I 'collected' Japanese games on PS3 pretty religiously and I ended up getting both Hyperneptunia Mk 2 and Victory (but never ended up finishing either of them).

I never saw the games as weird or perverted, and I absolutely hated reviewers who completely disregarded the actual game in favour of writing a social commentary op-ed piece (IGN's review of Lollipop Chainsaw comes to mind). I actually enjoyed the gameplay as mind-numbingingly basic as it was, and I thought the humour was funny in a cute-awkward kinda way.

Ultimately, I stopped playing both games because I felt like the time-to-satisfaction ratio was poor (in Victory especially, there was massive difficulty spike which required a massive grind) and I was getting busier and busier.

...also I'm not quite sure why I just typed out my life story. I think I have some unresolved issues with anime games.

 

[system11]

I also think they deserve credit for actively considering the West (including Europe) as a real market rather than a low effort 'maybe we can talk someone into paying for the license for a stack of quick yen' proposition.

Looking forward to the next Neptunia being released here, in fact of all the titles I know are definitely or probably coming, including everything we saw at E3, Neptunia Victory II is up in the top 3 along with Horizon and Last Guardian.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

Its interesting.

The Neptunia games, specifically ReBirth and its offshoots, are fantastic. Funny, addictive gameplay, well put together and packed with content. Sure there is a bit more fanservice than I'd like (since despite not giving a shit for tits) but even I can just ignore it.

Stuff like CG though, yuck.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

I do not give a fuck about what they do, I just hate it when other companies who didn't do their brand of lowbrow, trope fetishizing creeper-bait start doing their brand of lowbrow, trope fetishizing creeper-bait due to bad feedback and trend following.

.

I doubt that other companies trend follow Idea Factory as more like otaku pandering in general.

That's why saying that Idea Factory is the devil is absurd.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

I doubt that other companies trend follow Idea Factory as more like otaku pandering in general.

That's why saying that Idea Factory is the devil is absurd.

They're not following them. IF was always there, and they're slipping towards the space they're in.

 

[Kresnik258]

Stuff like CG though, yuck.

I'm struggling to work out what the "CG" stands for here. Only thing I can figure is Criminal Girls, but that's developed by NIS so it doesn't fit.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Speaking as someone who also likes most* the "good" JRPGs that are held up as examples of why Idea Factor is crap:

I just plain don't get a lot of the ongoing hatred. The first few Idea Factory games that came over were awful mechanically (Cross X Edge is pretty much everything that Idea Factory games are accused of and has terrible mechanics and Neptunia 1 and Record of Agarest War have similar problems). But the PC/Vita Neptune games are solid and innovative in a lot of ways, and Hyperdevotion Noire is a decent if barebones and grindy SRPG. They've really come a long way.


*I think the Fire Emblems that made it West pre-Awakening are pretty terrible for one thing. But that's partially because they are games that are basically handcrafted and perfectly tailored to make me rage. And I have no love for Action RPGs with Parties. But I like SMT games, Persona games, Disgaea, Etrian Odyssey, Final Fantasy pre XII, Wild Arms, and a whole bunch of other stuff.

 

[Kintaro]

Huh, a company occupying the JRPG genre in a mid-tier way, being successful about it... and they are the devil? Really? Come on now. Don't buy their games if you don't like them. Stop with the hyperbole otherwise. People enjoying their games does not mean the end of the world or RPGs.

What is with people's need to tear something down all the time?

 

[ZeroXZee]

Looking at the title, I thought this tread was about RPG Maker :lol

But seriously, I like IF's games. I'm playing Neptunia Re:Birth right now, having a blast. Ok, it's a poor game story-wise, but I really like the battle system and all the references, and I was expecting WAY MORE fanservice.

Also, they're launching JRPGs on Steam. I can't call a company that do that a "devil".

 

[OmegaDL50]

I'm struggling to work out what the "CG" stands for here. Only thing I can figure is Criminal Girls, but that's developed by NIS so it doesn't fit.

Nope. That was developed by Imageepoch.

NIS did handle the publishing duties though. Although I'd prefer they didn't, but it is what it is.