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If a racing game is seen as GOTY quality and then why isn't it rewarded as such?

EDMIX

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Oh my, it is too broad isn't it?

yea, even if I were to say something like Call Of Duty, even that is having different settings, wars etc. They vary enough, not enough to win a lot of GOTY, but enough to make any year a year they can take it with some massive reboot, overhaul etc. The first Call Of Duty won that award as, its not the first WWII game in history, but at the time it was the best. Call Of Duty 4 also won that award because of how massive the shift was.

Yet if you look at Madden, it has won that award before, but the concept of football isn't going to change THAT much lol, thus over the generations you won't see it win that award without some wild revolutionary shift.

But that being said, I can't lump COD in with Bioshock or Borderlands or Dead Space simply because you can shoot, the main idea of those games simply isn't the same. Would be like saying moving in a game was now a genre or something lol

Even the term "shooting game" I just don't know where such a thing fits.

Maybe, JUST maybe we can put Call Of Duty, Battlefield, Titanfall in such area or something where we more define what the fuck they are lol Like, online MP competitive or something of that nature.
 

Guilty_AI

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yea, even if I were to say something like Call Of Duty, even that is having different settings, wars etc. They vary enough, not enough to win a lot of GOTY, but enough to make any year a year they can take it with some massive reboot, overhaul etc. The first Call Of Duty won that award as, its not the first WWII game in history, but at the time it was the best. Call Of Duty 4 also won that award because of how massive the shift was.

Yet if you look at Madden, it has won that award before, but the concept of football isn't going to change THAT much lol, thus over the generations you won't see it win that award without some wild revolutionary shift.

But that being said, I can't lump COD in with Bioshock or Borderlands or Dead Space simply because you can shoot, the main idea of those games simply isn't the same. Would be like saying moving in a game was now a genre or something lol

Even the term "shooting game" I just don't know where such a thing fits.

Maybe, JUST maybe we can put Call Of Duty, Battlefield, Titanfall in such area or something where we more define what the fuck they are lol Like, online MP competitive or something of that nature.
cool, know what else is too broad? Reducing a genre to just accelerating and breaking.
 
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EDMIX

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cool, know what else is too broad? Reducing a genre to just accelerating and breaking.

?

Buddy, you are trying to force the concept that "shooting" is a whole genre.

This is something that can be done in Fallout, Dead Space, Killzone, Bioshock, Borderlands, Mafia etc. Yet we would not really argue those are the same genres.

The general concept of those racing games is to go from point A to B, that is enough to say that is a genre and that is enough to say its static outside of a few entries, you can't boil down any of the games I listed as simply shooting is the main idea aka the genre of the title or something odd like that.

Nice try though. smh.

I don't see any reason to get hurt, or triggered or emotional over what is being stated. Saying someone shoots in a game as a genre is a odd as saying walking, moving etc is one or something. The objective of a fucking racing game 99% is to get from A to B, be first, be fast etc.

No you didnt

But continuing this discussion is pointless.

Pretty much. Almost any discussion with this person is pointless as they get triggered as soon as you start to give examples ,list reasons aka an actual fucking discussion.
 

MonarchJT

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As the prize is set up .. the games that are present in the best-selling platform will almost always win. If there was a split like x360 / ps3 probably a lot more Xbox games they would have won that award
 

Guilty_AI

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The general concept of those racing games is to go from point A to B, that is enough to say that is a genre and that is enough to say its static outside of a few entries.
Dude, if you're gonna put it that way, all the "different" shooters you listed are also about going from point A to B.

Yes, you're gonna argue theres more to them than that, and i'll argue its the same for racing games.
I don't get why you find so difficult to understand that this


And this


or this

... are entirely different games altogether
 
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EDMIX

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Dude, if you're gonna put it that way, all the "different" shooters you listed are also about going from point A to B.

Yes, you're gonna argue theres more to them than that, and i'll argue its the same for racing games.
I don't get why you find so difficult to understand that this


And this


or this

... are entirely different games altogether

FFS you don't even read any post so why bother?

99.9% of the time is to race ie point A to B, outside of stuff like Rocket League or something (which btw won a GOTY)

Read the fucking post man, you literally replied to something that was not only stated, an example of a GOTY winner was literally fucking listed.

Adding you back on ignore.

Have a good one. smh
 
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I did, you only mention a part of the walking mechanics. The game has multiple vehicles, means of transportation like zip lines, multiple weapons for ranged, and melee combat, and for human and non human enemies.
Thers alot of gameplay elements that you dont mention cuz you either never played the game, or are just trolling.
I played the game, and I'm not trolling. Look at the "gameplay" you just listed. The most mundane things you could list for a game. THAT'S the problem with DS. The vehicles in the game are only useful once you build roads, then they're just normal vehicles like any other game. You have to aim? WoW! You mean like every other game with weapons? (There's barely any enemy combat in the game anyway, so bringing it up doesn't mean much).
I mean, you are only proving my point with this rebuttal. There's no amazing gameplay in DS. It's extremely basic in all aspects of gameplay. You walk or drive with packages loaded up on your back. I mean, you can try and dress is up anyway you want, but it doesn't change the facts. DS is not some complex game mechanically speaking. I can't think of a game with more illegitimate praise tbh.
 

Airbus Jr

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Boy does this smells like a smear campaign to push forza horizon 5 to win 2021 goty...

Keep up the good work boys hahaha....
 
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I love me some racing games but its hard to compete for a GOTY when your competition has a STORY. Acting, voice over, emotions etc. As realistic as some of these sims are getting, it will forever be a niche market. Not everyone likes racing games. But everyones loves a good story. They would watch a movie about cars as long as it has good story. If it was jsut some dudes racing without context which is exactly what racing games are, it cant really compete for a goty.

P.S. I dont consider "Wohooo welcome to the festival, beat your opponents and be the best festival driver" as a story driven game.
 
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Guilty_AI

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I love me some racing games but its hard to compete for a GOTY when your competition has a STORY. Acting, voice over, emotions etc. As realistic as some of these sims are getting, it will forever be a niche market. Not everyone likes racing games. But everyones loves a good story. They would watch a movie about cars as long as it has good story. If it was jsut some dudes racing without context which is exactly what racing games are, it cant really compete for a goty.

P.S. I dont consider "Wohooo welcome to the festival, beat your opponents and be the best festival driver" as a story driven game.
There are actually some racing games with proper story, though they're few and sometimes told with atypical narrative.

I honestly don't get why mainstream racing devs don't try harder on that front, and instead go with the "YEAH WELCOME TO THE KIRIBATI FESTIVAL. THATS YOUR RIVAL GIGACHAD AND YOU MUST WIN THE RACE TO STEAL HIS HOT GIRLFRIEND"
 
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Topher

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There are actually some racing games with proper story, though they're few and sometimes told with atypical narrative.

I honestly don't get why mainstream racing devs don't try harder on that front, and instead go with the "YEAH WELCOME TO THE KIRIBATI FESTIVAL. THATS YOUR RIVAL GIGACHAD AND YOU MUST WIN THE RACE TO STEAL HIS HOT GIRLFRIEND"

Now that would be GOTY material right there.

Oh Yeah Yes GIF by Cultura
 

Bragr

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I have showed you different type of gameplay elements added in the newer Forza's but you keep ignoring them and downplaying them. And you where the one that was generalising gameplay in all racing games with your moving forward braking and slidin comment. Yet when i do the same for TLOU you say that im over exaggerating and use nonsensical examples.
You did not show me new gameplay elements in Forza Horizon 5. 90% of the things you mentioned were stuff they had in the last game. You even mentioned the sky for christ's sake. A large portion of what you talked about was also just presentation, not gameplay. Your inability to find new things in Forza Horizon 5 only reinforces the original wrapper comment.

We have been talking about the differences between Forza Horizon 3,4 and 5, and you are trying to use dumb examples because your argumentation breaks down. In a car game, you are limited because a car has known rules, in a third-person game, you are more free to experiment. You are for some reason saying that breaking, accelerating and such, can't be generalized and that it's the same generalization as "press a button to shoot" or whatever your point is here.

But just look at the top car games and the top third-person action adventures. Forza, Gran Turismo, Dirt, Trackmania, there are clear generalizations here, while in third-person games, you have stuff like Spider-Man, Horizon: Zero Dawn, Ratchet and Clank with wide-ranging play styles. There gameplay options for third-person games are not as limited as car games, because when you play as a car, there are rules you must obey to make it feel like a car.

That is NOT to say car games are worse, and there is obviously a lot more to how good the gameplay is than just mechanics, but they do tend to mirror each other a lot more than most genres. Forza Horizon stepped out of this by featuring cool open-worlds, but even so, 3, 4 and 5 still feels very similar.
 

NeoIkaruGAF

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Because quality and gameplay aren’t the first concern in GOTY selection. Which is why the GOTY award is completely pointless. The award is always going to either Zelda or the most popularly acclaimed realistic cinematic game of the year. The days when a fighting game, a racing game, a shooter that’s not first person, a Metroidvania, a platformer or a JRPG could get a serious shot at GOTY are long gone. Besides, GOTY awards and first and foremost a show and who in their right mind is gonna give GOTY to a racing game when it’s just gonna get you scorn and death threats?

You can easily tell the candidates for GOTY as soon as they come out. If a game features 1) people, 2) realistic, cutting-edge graphics, 3) professional VA, 4) weapons (preferably guns) and a gameplay based on killing, 5) a high budget, that’s what you’re seeing nominated for GOTY at the end of the year.
 
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Turk1993

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You did not show me new gameplay elements in Forza Horizon 5. 90% of the things you mentioned were stuff they had in the last game. You even mentioned the sky for christ's sake. A large portion of what you talked about was also just presentation, not gameplay. Your inability to find new things in Forza Horizon 5 only reinforces the original wrapper comment.
Again if you where not this ignorant and stop generalising racing games and actualy look what im saying you would not twist this shit. I talked about the sky when i said how much effort they put in there game to give us a well detailed game that no one has rivaled yet, here is my qoute "You know how much effort they put to make a game like Forza Horizon where they scan the sky, environment, hunderds of cars and all the other things to give us ll those little details that real car fans love and appreciate". But again you want to twist shit again, like you do with the gameplay. You want FH5 exclusive gameplay features? Here you go 4W steering, fully working track/race modes and auro dynamics that you can change in game in real time. All of this was not featured in any Forza Horizon game before. Now tell me are you gonna downplay all of this also? And you like the ignore all the rest in the world that affects the gaddamn GAMEPLAY you know something you heavily focus on but don't want to count because gameplay is in your eyes only affected by a car. You don't even count the wheel support which is a different hardware that changes everything gameplay wise. But funny enough you mentioned dogs, traversal and stuff like that in TLOU 2 which had nothing to do with character you play with since you focus only on 1 object that your controller controls.
We have been talking about the differences between Forza Horizon 3,4 and 5, and you are trying to use dumb examples because your argumentation breaks down. In a car game, you are limited because a car has known rules, in a third-person game, you are more free to experiment. You are for some reason saying that breaking, accelerating and such, can't be generalized and that it's the same generalization as "press a button to shoot" or whatever your point is here.
So you think that Forza Horizon 3 Hot wheels plays the same as Forza Horizon 4 and that it was a dumb example? LMFAO , you really haven't play those games didn't you? And its really funny when you say its braking accelerating for racing games but when i say its the same me saying aiming and shooting for 3d person games you call those dumb examples. You don't make sense and are always looking for random shit to discredit my argument.
But just look at the top car games and the top third-person action adventures. Forza, Gran Turismo, Dirt, Trackmania, there are clear generalizations here, while in third-person games, you have stuff like Spider-Man, Horizon: Zero Dawn, Ratchet and Clank with wide-ranging play styles. There gameplay options for third-person games are not as limited as car games, because when you play as a car, there are rules you must obey to make it feel like a car.
And in all of those games you mentioned you do 90% the same thing gameplay wise, you jump, you walk, you hit, you look around, you crouch, and stuff like that. In one you can jump higher or walk faster or shoot other things but the basics are the same (you see how i did the same shit you did).



That is NOT to say car games are worse, and there is obviously a lot more to how good the gameplay is than just mechanics, but they do tend to mirror each other a lot more than most genres. Forza Horizon stepped out of this by featuring cool open-worlds, but even so, 3, 4 and 5 still feels very similar.
The only part where i partly agree, and i also said that its gonna feel similar because its literally the successor and thats not a bad thing. And isn't it ironic that most GOTY have also the samey gameplay as there earlier releases
like TLOU 2, Witcher 3, Dragon age : inquistion, GTA 5, Uncharted 2, Skyrim,... Soo again if you have good gameplay why do you need to change it all the time or why do you need to add something different to be in the list while most games there are literally doing the same thing what Forza been doing, making adjustments and adding improvements without changing it drasticly.
 
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Bragr

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Again if you where not this ignorant and stop generalising racing games and actualy look what im saying you would not twist this shit. I talked about the sky when i said how much effort they put in there game to give us a well detailed game that no one has rivaled yet, here is my qoute "You know how much effort they put to make a game like Forza Horizon where they scan the sky, environment, hunderds of cars and all the other things to give us ll those little details that real car fans love and appreciate". But again you want to twist shit again, like you do with the gameplay. You want FH5 exclusive gameplay features? Here you go 4W steering, fully working track/race modes and auro dynamics that you can change in game in real time. All of this was not featured in any Forza Horizon game before. Now tell me are you gonna downplay all of this also? And you like the ignore all the rest in the world that affects the gaddamn GAMEPLAY you know something you heavily focus on but don't want to count because gameplay is in your eyes only affected by a car. You don't even count the wheel support which is a different hardware that changes everything gameplay wise. But funny enough you mentioned dogs, traversal and stuff like that in TLOU 2 which had nothing to do with character you play with since you focus only on 1 object that your controller controls.

So you think that Forza Horizon 3 Hot wheels plays the same as Forza Horizon 4 and that it was a dumb example? LMFAO , you really haven't play those games didn't you? And its really funny when you say its braking accelerating for racing games but when i say its the same me saying aiming and shooting for 3d person games you call those dumb examples. You don't make sense and are always looking for random shit to discredit my argument.

And in all of those games you mentioned you do 90% the same thing gameplay wise, you jump, you walk, you hit, you look around, you crouch, and stuff like that. In one you can jump higher or walk faster or shoot other things but the basics are the same (you see how i did the same shit you did).




The only part where i partly agree, and i also said that its gonna feel similar because its literally the successor and thats not a bad thing. And isn't it ironic that most GOTY have also the samey gameplay as there earlier releases
like TLOU 2, Witcher 3, Dragon age : inquistion, GTA 5, Uncharted 2, Skyrim,... Soo again if you have good gameplay why do you need to change it all the time or why do you need to add something different to be in the list while most games there are literally doing the same thing what Forza been doing, making adjustments and adding improvements without changing it drasticly.
What you said was: "How are they playing it safe when every Forza adds something new like BR, dynamic seasons, Forzathon events, custom race maker in FH4 and dynamic weather, tuning and body kits, 3d puddles with aquaplanning, realistic sky tech, Full simulated snow and ice, custom festivals, full open world without bariers in FH3 and rain, engine and parts tuning, more open spaces, breakable trees, car meets, online custom events in FH2."

4W steering, fully working track/race modes and auro dynamics are details. It's not gonna make the gameplay drastically different. They added such things with every Forza, it's like adding a new dribble in FIFA. It's good but not what you make it out to be.

I'm not sure if you know what traversal is, it means how Ellie can move.

If you think slinging around as Spider-Man with web mechanics and close-quarter combat Vs. stealth and cover mechanics is the same, you only highlight that you only play car games and can't see the forest for the trees.

Not only has Forza not changed drastically, but if there wasn't a world they could change, it would still play like car games from 20 years ago. None of the titles you mentioned would.
 
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-tetsuo-

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Everyone knows that games that don't have guns or aiming or chest high walls or filmic cutscenes not only won't win GOTY, but they don't DESERVE GOTY.
 

Monad

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I love me some racing games but its hard to compete for a GOTY when your competition has a STORY. Acting, voice over, emotions etc. As realistic as some of these sims are getting, it will forever be a niche market. Not everyone likes racing games. But everyones loves a good story. They would watch a movie about cars as long as it has good story. If it was jsut some dudes racing without context which is exactly what racing games are, it cant really compete for a goty.

P.S. I dont consider "Wohooo welcome to the festival, beat your opponents and be the best festival driver" as a story driven game.

Overwatch won the GOTY being a multiplayer competitive shooter without any sort of story or campaign.
 
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Jadsey

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I mean I absolutely adore FH4 and have put a couple of hundred hours into it, it's the only reason I have an Xbox Series X tbh.

But for some reason I can't get overly excited about FH5...it just looks like a reskinned FH4 to me.

Nothing innovative going on.

I expect I will still spend way too much time in it though as the FH gameplay loop is very addictive to me.
 
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Monad

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What you said was: "How are they playing it safe when every Forza adds something new like BR, dynamic seasons, Forzathon events, custom race maker in FH4 and dynamic weather, tuning and body kits, 3d puddles with aquaplanning, realistic sky tech, Full simulated snow and ice, custom festivals, full open world without bariers in FH3 and rain, engine and parts tuning, more open spaces, breakable trees, car meets, online custom events in FH2."

4W steering, fully working track/race modes and auro dynamics are details. It's not gonna make the gameplay drastically different. They added such things with every Forza, it's like adding a new dribble in FIFA. It's good but not what you make it out to be.

I'm not sure if you know what traversal is, it means how Ellie can move.

If you think slinging around as Spider-Man with web mechanics and close-quarter combat Vs. stealth and cover mechanics is the same, you only highlight that you only play car games and can't see the forest for the trees.

Not only has Forza not changed drastically, but if there wasn't a world they could change, it would still play like car games from 20 years ago. None of the titles you mentioned would.

Funny statement, every Forza (including both Motorsport and Horizon series) has a very distinctive driving model because the tweaks made to the physics engine release after release, changing the handling experience enough to be a blatantly ignorant say "gameplay is the same/almost the same". Hell, basically the entire car drivability changes for each game and the racing genre is probably the prime example of actual gameplay contrast of the same formula, giving the massive quantity of variables involved (specially in sim or simcade racers).

Of course, if you're not a car/racing guy you can perfectly simplify everything to "cars go brrr", but all the simplification that you make of the genre by mere ignorance can be applied perfectly to the rest of the games out there, just as Turk1993 stated.
 
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Bragr

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Funny statement, every Forza (including both Motorsport and Horizon series) has a very distinctive driving model because the tweaks made to the physics engine release after release, changing the handling experience enough to be a blatantly ignorant say "gameplay is the same/almost the same". Hell, basically the entire car drivability changes for each game and the racing genre is probably the prime example of actual gameplay contrast of the same formula, giving the massive quantity of variables involved (specially in sim or simcade racers).

Of course, if you're not a car/racing guy you can perfectly simplify everything to "cars go brrr", but all the simplification that you make of the genre by mere ignorance can be applied perfectly to the rest of the games out there, just as Turk1993 stated.
No, it can not be applied to other games in the same way. I have played racing games for a long time, I probably played most of the big racing games in the last 20 years, and I am perfectly aware of the changes that have come and all the hyperbolic bullshit you hear from fans of car games.

If you look at the games that aim at a sim approach, like Forza Motorsport, Gran Turismo, Project Cars, Assetto Corsa, and stuff like that, the variations are small. Yes, Turismo handles well and Corsa has great sound design, but that's not enough to create significant gameplay changes. The sensation of acceleration, cutting corners, passing cars, all of that are too similar. In fact, you will find large groups of fans championing each of their games because it's so hard to differentiate the gameplay and pinpoint which game is better. The variations are even smaller because the campaign modes are virtually the same.

You just can't sit and tell me that that Forza Horizon 3, 4, and 5 play so different that it's ignorant to call them similar. That is just too damn ridiculous.
 
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Airbus Jr

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Funny statement, every Forza (including both Motorsport and Horizon series) has a very distinctive driving model because the tweaks made to the physics engine release after release, changing the handling experience enough to be a blatantly ignorant say "gameplay is the same/almost the same". Hell, basically the entire car drivability changes for each game and the racing genre is probably the prime example of actual gameplay contrast of the same formula, giving the massive quantity of variables involved (specially in sim or simcade racers).

Of course, if you're not a car/racing guy you can perfectly simplify everything to "cars go brrr", but all the simplification that you make of the genre by mere ignorance can be applied perfectly to the rest of the games out there, just as Turk1993 stated.
I played FH2 and FH3 ( havent played 4) and the difference is negligible bro except for location

We understand you want fh5 to won goty but people expectation are not always the same as you if it didnt won goty you shouldnt be upset cos everyone have their own version of goty, peace
 
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CeeJay

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Alot of people don't care about cars, that's pretty much it
Speaking UK centric as that's where both myself and Playground Games are from...

67 million people in the UK
38 million vehicles in the UK
55 million smart phones in the UK
36 million gamers in the UK
26.9 million households with TVs in the UK
617k guns in the UK

It looks like vehicles are more popular than video games but not as popular as smart phones and they are way way more popular than TV.

Conversely, what is the percentage of GOTY feature guns when only a tiny proportion of the population are interested enough to own them?
 

nemiroff

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The objective of a fucking racing game 99% is to get from A to B, be first, be fast etc.

No it's not. Again; The reductionist look at racing games and can be done for any other genre, and even life itself (it must suck to be a nihilist..). Everything is kinda like quantum theory; life can be both nothing and everything at the same time. Same goes for everything meta in life, like video game entertainment. It depends on your zoom level, and in this case I think people are conveniently zooming in and out way too much depending on their personal feels.
 
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Bragr

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No it's not. Again; The reductionist look at racing games and can be done for any other genre, and even life itself (it must suck to be a nihilist..). Everything is kinda like quantum theory; life can be both nothing and everything at the same time. Same goes for everything meta in life, like video game entertainment. It depends on your zoom level, and in this case I think people are conveniently zooming in and out way too much depending on their personal feels.
I think you are overthinking this a bit.
 

nemiroff

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I think you are overthinking this a bit.

You again..? I'm sorry for being too inexpedient for a video game messaging board where one-liners and emojis (and obviously sarcasm) are considered a valid argument.. But the point is easy: EVERY game and genre can be reduced a "it's just" and merits disregarded by some arbitrary unwritten rule. It has no direct value as an argument. So the only interesting point to discuss here is whether gaming urinalists with their precious "GOTYs" apparently come to a certain conclusion regarding different genres, and if so, how did they come to this conclusion? Perhaps they too have a subjective unconscious reductionist bias, it might be?
 
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Turk1993

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Funny statement, every Forza (including both Motorsport and Horizon series) has a very distinctive driving model because the tweaks made to the physics engine release after release, changing the handling experience enough to be a blatantly ignorant say "gameplay is the same/almost the same". Hell, basically the entire car drivability changes for each game and the racing genre is probably the prime example of actual gameplay contrast of the same formula, giving the massive quantity of variables involved (specially in sim or simcade racers).

Of course, if you're not a car/racing guy you can perfectly simplify everything to "cars go brrr", but all the simplification that you make of the genre by mere ignorance can be applied perfectly to the rest of the games out there, just as Turk1993 stated.
The ignorance those guys have for racing games is the same reason why racing games don't get those awards. They talk about gameplay changes, they talk about story and other shit that don't make sense. There are games in there that don't have a story and games that play 99% same as there precursors, but if its a racing game than all of sudden it need to have a story and all type of other shit added to be in there. They are delusional at this point, they even think racing games from 20 years ago have the same gameplay as current games. But when you mention TLOU 1 from 2013 or Gears 1 from 2007 and say that the newer games have literally 90% the same gameplay in 2020 than they call those dumb examples. Nothing they say makes sense, they are hypocrites man im telling you. Like im ok if you don't like racing games not everybody need to like them, but saying that racing games don't deserve it because of those stupid reasons is just stupid and straight disrespect to the devs.
 
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Shmunter

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The ignorance those guys have for racing games is the same reason why racing games don't get those awards. They talk about gameplay changes, they talk about story and other shit that don't make sense. There are games in there that don't have a story and games that play 99% same as there precursors, but if its a racing game than all of sudden it need to have a story and all type of other shit added to be in there. They are delusional at this point, they even think racing games from 20 years ago have the same gameplay as current games. But when you mention TLOU 1 from 2013 or Gears 1 from 2007 and say that the newer games have literally 90% the same gameplay in 2020 than they call those dumb examples. Nothing they say makes sense, they are hypocrites man im telling you. Like im ok if you don't like racing games not everybody need to like them, but saying that racing games don't deserve it because of those stupid reasons is just stupid and straight disrespect to the devs.
If racing was a fan darling, we’d still have Project Gotham, Driveclub and a healthy selection of arcade style racers. Not enough gamers care about the genre.
 

Turk1993

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Jan 13, 2018
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If racing was a fan darling, we’d still have Project Gotham, Driveclub and a healthy selection of arcade style racers. Not enough gamers care about the genre.
Driveclub got delayed couple of times and got lots of issues at launch and had super low cars and tracks. The weather and all the other good stuff got added later when it bombed at launch with bad reviews that turned people off (which is a shame because the game is very good now RIP DC). And PGR got replaced by Forza Horizon. And if you look at the sales and other stuff you will see that racing games are still there in the top 10.
 
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Bragr

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Jun 24, 2020
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You again..? I'm sorry for being too inexpedient for a video game messaging board where one-liners and emojis (and obviously sarcasm) are considered a valid argument.. But the point is easy: EVERY game and genre can be reduced a "it's just" and merits disregarded by some arbitrary unwritten rule. It has no direct value as an argument. So the only interesting point to discuss here is whether gaming urinalists with their precious "GOTYs" apparently come to a certain conclusion regarding different genres, and if so, how did they come to this conclusion? Perhaps they too have a subjective unconscious reductionist bias, it might be?
And let me guess, you are clear of subjective unconscious reductionist bias, but everyone is not.

I don't know who you are aiming at with "it's just", the problem in this thread is more the other way around. Some fans refuse to accept that the gameplay of driving has had clear similarities from game to game in all the Forza games, to the point where you could take the gameplay from Horizon 2 and slot it into 4 and few would notice the difference.