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If we have *potentially* reached the point of diminishing returns on graphic developments what's the next selling point.

Schmick

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Might be a bit hasty on this since we are still in the cross gen phase. However we are probably getting to point where advancements in graphics is getting smaller. Its my opinion that for AAA games graphics is the top selling point. Since graphics appeals to not just the hardcore group of gamers but the causal group too. First party games especially Sony ones have always pushed the boundary of what is graphically possible.

After seeing games like FS, R&C, FH5 and even TLoU2 (damn good looking game for a PS4 game) how exactly can games look any better and if differences are not so great anymore whats the new big selling point for the hardcore and casual gamer.
 

22:22

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thats what i thought when i saw the trailer for MGS2 back in the day , how wrong i was

Uh Huh Yes GIF by Dark Igloo
 

22:22

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Might be a bit hasty on this since we are still in the cross gen phase. However we are probably getting to point where advancements in graphics is getting smaller. Its my opinion that for AAA games graphics is the top selling point. Since graphics appeals to not just the hardcore group of gamers but the causal group too. First party games especially Sony ones have always pushed the boundary of what is graphically possible.

After seeing games like FS, R&C, FH5 and even TLoU2 (damn good looking game for a PS4 game) how exactly can games look any better and if differences are not so great anymore whats the new big selling point for the hardcore and casual gamer.

Did you mean to ask what would be needed for the masses to get interested into a game if graphics don't play any role in that anymore?

IP's

How stupid and or bad something is, if it's trendy it's gonna sell.
 
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Rivet

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Art direction and new gameplay ideas may take more of a front seat with diminishing returns.

That, and immersion too, with VR. There's a reason Sony invests massively in it despite moderate success : it's a major differentiator now that diminishing returns kicked in.
 
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KAL2006

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Just good ass games that play good, 60fps, good level design etc.

Next time graphics will matter is when they can do path tracing which should save development costs as all lighting will be done by path tracing and no need for pre baked lighting.

I think rather than focussing on pushing better graphics we need to get technology to make development cheaper, efficient and quicker so we can get AAA games at a faster pace.
 

Schmick

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I suppose... regardless of whether i've been too hasty in my assessment its not too early to have the discussion.
 
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Schmick

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Personally I couldn't give two shits what a game looks like these days....they all look great....I just want interesting game design,but we get the same few ideas over and over again.
This is kinda my point, if they all look great... whats the next thing thats going to sell games.
 

Schmick

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Did you mean to ask what would be needed for the masses to get interested into a game if graphics don't play any role in that anymore?

IP's

How stupid and or bad something is, if it's trendy it's gonna sell.
But how do you draw players into new IP's when you cant use graphics as your show piece.

Established IP's doesn't matter because they already have a following.
 
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kyussman

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This is kinda my point, if they all look great... whats the next thing thats going to sell games.
People love shiny things though don't they.....look at the Arkane games like Dishonored and Prey,full of cool game design and ideas....nobody bought them,shame.
 

RJMacready73

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I'm still waiting on game world's with the level of detail of TLOU2 coupled with the deformation and destructibility of Minecraft plus be open world and support 1000 simultaneous players
 

RoboFu

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Just because Sony made a few crossgen sequels doesn’t mean we have seen the peak of this gens graphics.
 
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lh032

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how about better tech? like better physics? maybe better grass ? better cloth movements and such?

We all can agree that leafs and grass still look like ass
 
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StateofMajora

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We haven't reached it yet. I've been reading "diminishing returns" since the PS360.
I mean to be fair the ps4 > 360 leap was relatively small compared to prior leaps and ps5 > ps4 is even smaller.

For example there's a much bigger improvement from ratchet and clank on ps2 to a crack in time, than CIT > rift apart. That's a single gen leap vs. 2 gens.
 
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Shut0wen

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Oct 29, 2020
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Might be a bit hasty on this since we are still in the cross gen phase. However we are probably getting to point where advancements in graphics is getting smaller. Its my opinion that for AAA games graphics is the top selling point. Since graphics appeals to not just the hardcore group of gamers but the causal group too. First party games especially Sony ones have always pushed the boundary of what is graphically possible.

After seeing games like FS, R&C, FH5 and even TLoU2 (damn good looking game for a PS4 game) how exactly can games look any better and if differences are not so great anymore whats the new big selling point for the hardcore and casual gamer.
Personally i find it pretty concerning, 20 years ago it wouldnt of been a problem, back when home cobsole become a thing developers started small and grew, now indie developers seem to just stay small, last developer i remember that started small and become big was the developers of retural, cant blame indie developers since the cost of making games is massive now
 

Con-Z-epT

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Nothing special in particular as i think that this generation will be very similar to the last one in that regard.

I'm convinced that the visual enhancements are already enough for the average consumer who doesn't spend hours upon hours in a forum to discuss those things. Here and there you will find a developer who is pushing the boundaries with new gameplay innovations or groundbreaking AI and such things but all this will be in the minority. Maybe a new trend will be set with a specific gameplay twist that gets adopted throughout the industry and draws people in but overall i don't expect anything in particular.
 
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LazyParrot

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We haven't reached it yet. I've been reading "diminishing returns" since the PS360.
Isn't that exactly what happened, though? The jump from PS3 to PS4 was smaller than the jump from PS2 to PS3, and the jump to PS5 is smaller still.
 
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Loxus

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Non realistic graphics - yeah feels like it.

"Realistic" graphics - not even close, everything people claim as "photo realistic" in still shots look fake as hell in motion (except for driving games I guess).
I think your right about the diminishing returns OP.

Not even mods on the most powerful gaming PC has realistic graphics. I think the software side of the tech isn't there yet.

How game engines work may not be sufficient enough for the realistic scene.

For right now I think gameplay mechanics would be better for developers to focus on this gen.
Then A.I with PS6 and Next Xbox.

The software and probably hardware tech just isn't here right now to make truly realistic next-gen games.
 
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SkylineRKR

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Selling points are load times, RT, 120hz.

And the load times and frame rates are a HUGE deal. They're more important than graphics. They give you more actual game time, its that simple. You're not going to wait 2 minutes to load a zone in TES or Witcher anymore. And probably not on sub 30fps either, actually, about all games so far have been 60 or higher.

And I don't know about you guys but I think TLOU 2, Ghost of Tsushima, God of War etc look absolutely amazing on PS5. They are developed for PS4 architecture. I'm fine with those graphics, to be honest. Perhaps they can add some RT effects in the mix without dialing too much pixels back, and it looks even better.
 
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22:22

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But how do you draw players into new IP's when you cant use graphics as your show piece.

Established IP's doesn't matter because they already have a following.

Personal taste. Most games look more than fine nowadays. People buy what they think looks cool (conceptually) to them.
 

GymWolf

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We didn't reached jack shit, the final objective is still real life for realistic games and for what doesn't exist in real life like any fantasy\sci-fi element, we aim for movie top tier cg level.

Except for racing games in still frame pics, we are nowhere near real life or top tier cg.

And we are just talking about raw graphic, when it comes to physics, world interaction, animations and ia, we are light years from this shit



Diminishing returns is BULLSHIT, don't get fooled by under-utilized gpus on pc and underpowered consoles, we are not near server farms utilized by disney, pixar, star wars movies etc. for their state of the art cg, how can you even doubt this and still think that we are nowhere close to absolute realism?!
 
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KAL2006

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Selling points are load times, RT, 120hz.

And the load times and frame rates are a HUGE deal. They're more important than graphics. They give you more actual game time, its that simple. You're not going to wait 2 minutes to load a zone in TES or Witcher anymore. And probably not on sub 30fps either, actually, about all games so far have been 60 or higher.

Yep pretty much. I can't even be bothered to play Street Fighter V. I love the gameplay but just loading the game up and getting a game is just too time consuming.
 

22:22

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We didn't reached jack shit, the aim is still real life for realistic games and for what doesn't exist in real life like any fantasy\sci-fi element, we aim for movie top tier cg level.

Except for racing games in still frame pics, we are nowhere near real life or top tier cg.

And we are just talking about raw graphic, when it comes to physics and ia, we are light years from this shit



Diminishing returns is BULLSHIT.

Preach brother!
 
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kyliethicc

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Interactivity, phyics, AI, design, systems, world density, actions with permanence, multiplayer design, little details, artistic creativity, non linear storytelling, etc.

Visual fidelity will of course continued to improve. But the hardware is no longer the major limiting factor for devs. Its time, money, team size, etc. The resources required for top tier visuals are becoming harder to come by.
 

SkylineRKR

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Yep pretty much. I can't even be bothered to play Street Fighter V. I love the gameplay but just loading the game up and getting a game is just too time consuming.

To me its the biggest feature in 25 years and i'm not bullshitting. This is going back to 16-bit console speeds. Even faster as games can instantly be resumed and you can switch between them. When I power up my S, I'm playing Hades from where I quit within 3 seconds.

I remember getting the first Playstation. I loved it but I wasn't used to the load times since I came from Megadrive. Load times have been consistently terrible in the more complex and sports games and even fighters as you say (SFV, but also Tekken 6 onwards) ever since now.
 
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