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Opinion If you care about PS5 vs Xbox Series X performance, you should just build a PC

DoctaThompson

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Hey folks
1. PS5 is 12.2 RDNA 1.5 and XSX is 12.05 RDNA 1.5
2. PS5 3.6Ghz Zen 2 and XSX is 3.5Ghz
3. PS5 has 18GB+4gigs of ddr4 GDDR6 and XSX has 16 GB.
4. PS5 SSD 5.8GB/s upto 6GB/s on D1 and XSX for now is 3.5GB/s
5. Secret sauce👀 for PS5
XSX is alot quieter.
Where are these confirmed specs? I keep seeing numbers from the rumors page. This was stated like it's a for sure fact... Source?
 
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Henry Clark

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Where are these confirmed specs? I keep seeing numbers from the rumors page. This was stated like it's a for sure fact... Source?
I am an intern at third party studio cannot reveal my source but everything above is 100% legit.
RT level is between 2080 and super.
XSX also has additional 4 gigs of ddr4 memory (sorry for not adding there)
No idea about PS5 design, DS5 final look and BC with PS3,2 and 1
 
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Henry Clark

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I am not saying PS5 will be more powerful, at launch PS5 will perform better in terms of SSD, speed it's next level.Except that both are pretty similar and there is also a difference in RT
 
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Journey

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I am not saying PS5 will be more powerful, at launch PS5 will perform better in terms of SSD, speed it's next level.Except that both are pretty similar and there is also a difference in RT

What about overall TF performance?
 

DoctaThompson

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I am an intern at third party studio cannot reveal my source but everything above is 100% legit.
RT level is between 2080 and super.
XSX also has additional 4 gigs of ddr4 memory (sorry for not adding there)
No idea about PS5 design, DS5 final look and BC with PS3,2 and 1
It could have been believable, till you said between 2080 and the super :messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_grinning_smiling::messenger_grinning_sweat::messenger_grinning_squinting:. Definitely lost your credibility there buddy.

First of all, everyone comparing consoles to Nvidia, makes no sense. It'll be all AMD hardware, from cpu to gpu.

Secondly, these consoles would cost a fortune to have that kinda power.

Thirdly, how much power can the power supply handle?

Lastly, where will all that heat go?! Especially in a small constricted box. Those fans would sound like a jet engine taking off.

Edit: emulating down too the emotion engine AND the ps1?! Definitely a fake troll account, looking for attention. And this machine would sell for close to a grand. Is Sony gonna eat half of the price? Lol
 
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Henry Clark

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It could have been believable, till you said between 2080 and the super :messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_grinning_smiling::messenger_grinning_sweat::messenger_grinning_squinting:. Definitely lost your credibility there buddy.

First of all, everyone comparing consoles to Nvidia, makes no sense. It'll be all AMD hardware, from cpu to gpu.

Secondly, these consoles would cost a fortune to have that kinda power. Thirdly, how much power can the power supply handle?

Lastly, where will all that heat go?! Especially in a small constricted box. Those fans would sound like a jet engine taking off.
I am not saying natively but you can expect that level not sure about Devkit 3 which are out in WWS
 
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Henry Clark

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There is a significant difference between devkit 1 and 3
 
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Henry Clark

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But PS5 is performing better in terms of SSD and RT. RT difference can be minimised but SSD speed is killer believe me.
XSX noise is alot quieter than PS5 Devkit
 
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Henry Clark

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I am not saying natively but you can expect that level not sure about Devkit 3 which are out in WWS
You are right wait till Devkit 3. And 8K promise is like 4K on Pro. Very good machines for 1080p,2K and 4K also.
 
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DoctaThompson

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2070 super~2080 devkit 1. 100% true.
Why would these chips be compared with Nvidia? They have different architecture, implementation of RT/X, etc. Do you realize how much that chip costs to begin with? Are you implying consoles will launch at 699 or 799?
 
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Henry Clark

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Why would these chips be compared with Nvidia? They have different architecture, implementation of RT/X, etc. Do you realize how much that chip costs to begin with? Are you implying consoles will launch at 699 or 799?
Because there is no RT on AMD GPUs in the market.
Haha 699,799 more than that because the SSD sitting in these consoles alone is very expensive especially PS5 believe me it is very fast. I will not be surprised at the price point of 599 according to what you're getting (excluding loss)
 
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Henry Clark

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These things are on D1 not sure about DE and D3 and yes you have the right to have doubt on me.
 

DoctaThompson

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Because there is no RT on AMD GPUs in the market.
Haha 699,799 more than that because the SSD sitting in these consoles alone is very expensive especially PS5 believe me it is very fast. I will not be surprised at the price point of 599 according to what you're getting (excluding loss)
So your implying that it'll have similar Ray tracing cu's like the Nvidia counterpart, but not the performance of that card?
 

Journey

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Where was this opinion in 2013?

Everyone is scared that Xbox Series X will be considerably more powerful, God forbid. Consoles aren't about powerful anymore, if you want power, build a PC, that's the message, you can't have both power and a console, cause that's what XseriesX is supposed to do.
 
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LMJ

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I've always hated this argument, if you care about "playstation 5 or the new xbox" in regards to specs then clearly the console is what you care about, and the power associated within.

If only power is what you desire then yes the PC is the way to go, but if the word xbox, playstation or Nintendo are listed in the things you care about then clearly PC isn't what they're after, you can care about power in consoles...there ARE console only players afterall

This almost feels like insecurity on P.C gamers side, and that's just silly lol
 

Jigsaah

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Well I was a console gamer for years until about 2008...where I dipped my toes in PC a lil bit around the launch of Star Wars: The Old Republic. My first mistake was buying a gaming laptop. Non-upgradeable, faulty...had to worry more about it's cooling. It was a nightmare. After that thing died I was on Xbox and Playstation for the next 10 years. Then I decided I wanted to stream. I needed a PC. So the purchase was more for streaming xbox one or ps4 content starting about October of 2018. It cost roughly about $1300 including 2 monitors. It's what I could afford at the time. Then I dabbled a bit in steam...I went back to games like Final Fantasy XI and my eyes were opened.

PC, like the consoles all have their niche. I love Xbox for it's competitive multiplayer experiences, sense of community, the controller and on the X, the multiplats which make up 80% of my library. I love PS4 for the exclusives and playing specific genres like fighting or sports games and single player epic experiences. My PC is a bunch of things...it provides easy access to nostalgia, free online play, frame rate behemoth, graphical fidelity seldomly found on console as well as provides uncompromised access to creating content as a hobby and maybe a career in the future.

All these things have value and as long as one can afford it, it's pretty short sighted to give advice on purchase decisions based only whether or not power matters next gen.
 
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DoctaThompson

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I've always hated this argument, if you care about "playstation 5 or the new xbox" in regards to specs then clearly the console is what you care about, and the power associated within.

If only power is what you desire then yes the PC is the way to go, but if the word xbox, playstation or Nintendo are listed in the things you care about then clearly PC isn't what they're after, you can care about power in consoles...there ARE console only players afterall

This almost feels like insecurity on P.C gamers side, and that's just silly lol
Yeah, cause I have no problems with consoles. Just hate how ignorant people with no knowledge of how hardware works, blabber out stupid stuff like how pc players are going be the bottom of the barrel in regards to power compared to consoles. If that were the case, games would be developed on console, not pc's
 

LMJ

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Point taken DoctaThompson DoctaThompson , that's why I stated that the insecurity over console gamers is silly lol

Just as I stated above that P.C only gamers need to understand that many Console gamers can be console only and still concerned over power...

Console gamers need to wrap their minds around the fact that the P.C will ALWAYS offer more, it is the beasts very nature due to the open structure of P.C gaming...

No reason for insecurity on either side...again...silly
 
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Yea, I'm looking forward to playing the next God of War on PC :pie_eyeroll:


But let's forget about exclusives for a second and pretend everything under the sun is also on PC. It's very hard to build a PC with the same form factor, quiteness and bang for your buck as a console from launch. You also forget the fact that games are highly optimized for these machines which increases the bang for your buck further as time progresses; your mid-to-high range GPU purchase from 2020 may not be ideal for 2022 titles, but these games will be highly optimized and part of the 2nd/3rd gen software where consoles shine, and sure, you can buy a GPU in 2022 that will kick the consoles butts, but now you're 2 GPU purchases deep.

Here's what I would recommend, instead of purchasing an expensive GPU that probably costs as much, if not more than Xbox Series X, you instead buy an Xbox Series X, and with it you can play ALL of Xbox games all the way down to OG Xbox titles, fast SSD load times for new titles and all other benefits of the new generation, and then a couple of years down the road, maybe 2022, NOW you build your PC, but don't built it at the console's launch, that's just dumb.
how many exclusives came out for ps4, compared to ps3 and ps2?.

right. exactly. shut up.
 

NOLA_Gaffer

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I've been thinking about SteamOS a lot today and I think Windows itself is one of the big sticking points for me with PC Gaming. If someone made a proper Gaming-focused operating system that did only that and either gave it away or sold it for a fraction of the price that Windows is I'd probably be a lot less hestitant to jump on the PC Gaming bandwagon.

Just boot me into a console-like UI that lets me do the things I need to do...buy and play games. I don't need any of Windows other features, just the Gaming stuff. Make it as rock solid as possible and make it do the one thing its designed to do as well as possible.
 

Joshmyersbv

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After the shit I had to deal with regarding RD2 on PC and the fact I had to wait months to play it. I think I'll stick with consoles and play RTS's and PUBG on PC.
 

DoctaThompson

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After the shit I had to deal with regarding RD2 on PC and the fact I had to wait months to play it. I think I'll stick with consoles and play RTS's and PUBG on PC.
Months? Did you not turn your pc on at all during that time? Or are you one of those console liars? Your post history will confirm it
 

pawel86ck

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Where are these confirmed specs? I keep seeing numbers from the rumors page. This was stated like it's a for sure fact... Source?
PS5 specs is big unknown, however XSX 12TF is pretty much confirmed.

-XSX SoC photo 400mm2 points out to at least 56CUs (52 active)
-Phil Spencer 2x xbox x GPU power statement (12TF)
-12TF number in gamespot, eurogamer, and windows central articles.
 

Joshmyersbv

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Months? Did you not turn your pc on at all during that time? Or are you one of those console liars? Your post history will confirm it
I had to upgrade my graphics card (it was a GeForce GTX 1060) and my ssd before I could/wanted to play it. $400 later, I boot up Red Dead with flickering issues during cinematics and it kicking out of the game with "Red Dead Redemption 2 exited unexpectedly" and not to mention stuttering issues. Red Dead isn't the only 3rd party game to have issues on PC either. So with games not being able to function properly without updating your drivers, or your power supply, your GPU and/or CPU not to mention you may have to increase your storage. It's no wonder console players don't jump to PC. Too much shit to worry about when you can just plug in and play.
 
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DoctaThompson

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I had to upgrade my graphics card (it was a GeForce GTX 1060) and my ssd before I could/wanted to play it. $400 later, I boot up Red Dead with flickering issues during cinematics and it kicking out of the game with "Red Dead Redemption 2 exited unexpectedly" and not to mention stuttering issues. Red Dead isn't the only 3rd party game to have issues on PC either. So with games not being able to function properly without updating your drivers, or your power supply, your GPU and/or CPU not to mention you may have to increase your storage. It's no wonder console players don't jump to PC. Too much shit to worry about when you can just plug in and play. So how about you shut the fuck up about calling me a console liar you stupid cunt.
A simple update of your graphics card, would remedy that immediately. But based on your previous posts, I don't think that is the case at all. It's easy to distinguish a console player, trying to be a pc player, easily. All of your posts, have nothing to do with pc, so I highly doubt that to be true. But go ahead and tell us about the complications, you experienced.

I'm eagerly waiting
 
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adamosmaki

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I hoped people would understand that i am talking about specs, not exclusivity but i guess i must clarify that
well i don't know abou gow since that aint on pc but doom on my old rig with a 7870 and an i5 4460 (which back in 2013 would have been considered a mid range pc) sure as hell plays and looks better than a base 2013 ps4
 
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Mecha Meow

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I had to upgrade my graphics card (it was a GeForce GTX 1060) and my ssd before I could/wanted to play it. $400 later, I boot up Red Dead with flickering issues during cinematics and it kicking out of the game with "Red Dead Redemption 2 exited unexpectedly" and not to mention stuttering issues. Red Dead isn't the only 3rd party game to have issues on PC either. So with games not being able to function properly without updating your drivers, or your power supply, your GPU and/or CPU not to mention you may have to increase your storage. It's no wonder console players don't jump to PC. Too much shit to worry about when you can just plug in and play. So how about you shut the fuck up about calling me a console liar you stupid cunt.
Sounds like a you issue tbh. Everyone I know that uses a PC doesn't seem to have these overly dramatized experiences I'm seeing people state here in this thread.

Outside of a new game/OS install/update, PC has been smooth sailing for me for the past 15 years.

Building a PC and maintaining it is damn near idiot proof unless you're a clumsy clueless oaf with lubed-laced butterfingers.

<-----clumsy clueless butterfingered oaf btw
 
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DGrayson

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I had to upgrade my graphics card (it was a GeForce GTX 1060) and my ssd before I could/wanted to play it. $400 later, I boot up Red Dead with flickering issues during cinematics and it kicking out of the game with "Red Dead Redemption 2 exited unexpectedly" and not to mention stuttering issues. Red Dead isn't the only 3rd party game to have issues on PC either. So with games not being able to function properly without updating your drivers, or your power supply, your GPU and/or CPU not to mention you may have to increase your storage. It's no wonder console players don't jump to PC. Too much shit to worry about when you can just plug in and play. So how about you shut the fuck up about calling me a console liar you stupid cunt.

Lets all chill, these are games and systems. You made your point just fine with out the stupid cunt part.
 
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Joshmyersbv

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A simple update of your graphics card, would remedy that immediately. But based on your previous posts, I don't think that is the case at all. It's easy to distinguish a console player, trying to be a pc player, easily. All of your posts, have nothing to do with pc, so I highly doubt that to be true. But go ahead and tell us about the complications, you experienced.

I'm eagerly waiting
Sounds like a you issue tbh. Everyone I know that uses a PC doesn't seem to have these overly dramatized experiences I'm seeing people state here in this thread.

Outside of a new game/OS install/update, PC has been smooth sailing for me for the past 15 years.

Building a PC and maintaining it is damn near idiot proof unless you're a clumsy clueless oaf with lubed-laced butterfingers.

<-----clumsy clueless butterfingered oaf btw

No actually I wasn't the only one having issues like these. and that's the point I'm trying to make. It's easy to say well why don't you just build a PC. but a lot of console players don't understand that playing games on PC may requires some type of troubleshooting. Hell I remember when my brother got Arkham Knight on PC it was practically unplayabl for weeks and the console version had no issues at all. The last time I checked Red Dead didn't have these issues on PS4 or the Xbox they're sure has shit had it on PC. The point I'm trying to make has nothing to do about building PC's it's the fact that the support from third-party developers on PC is pretty fucking shitty.
 

DoctaThompson

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No actually I wasn't the only one having issues like these. and that's the point I'm trying to make. It's easy to say well why don't you just build a PC. but a lot of console players don't understand that playing games on PC may requires some type of troubleshooting. Hell I remember when my brother got Arkham Knight on PC it was practically unplayabl for weeks and the console version had no issues at all. The last time I checked Red Dead didn't have these issues on PS4 or the Xbox they're sure has shit had it on PC. The point I'm trying to make has nothing to do about building PC's it's the fact that the support from third-party developers on PC is pretty fucking shitty.
So pretty much only 2 games that had issues in over 4 years time. Can't say that's any worse than playing those exact games on console where they drop into the low 20fps. Has that been fixed yet? No. Seems like you had other issues with your pc. Just about all games don't exhibit problems, unless it's user error. Very rare cases are compatibility issues, and just need to update something.

Otherwise, pc had a pretty robust and streamlined gaming, that doesn't require fiddling with files, or having to do anything others then install the game and run it. It's all this FUD that people are saying, and spreading, and a simple search in post history shows they don't even have a pc, or never gamed on one, yet claim otherwise. Using Google search to try and find all kinda odd situations to support an argument, are very easy to see past and debunk.
 

OSC

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PS5 specs is big unknown, however XSX 12TF is pretty much confirmed.

-XSX SoC photo 400mm2 points out to at least 56CUs (52 active)
-Phil Spencer 2x xbox x GPU power statement (12TF)
-12TF number in gamespot, eurogamer, and windows central articles.
The question is if they are rdna too. Older rumors suggested next gen xbox was based on vega architecture.
So pretty much only 2 games that had issues in over 4 years time. Can't say that's any worse than playing those exact games on console where they drop into the low 20fps. Has that been fixed yet? No. Seems like you had other issues with your pc. Just about all games don't exhibit problems, unless it's user error. Very rare cases are compatibility issues, and just need to update something.

Otherwise, pc had a pretty robust and streamlined gaming, that doesn't require fiddling with files, or having to do anything others then install the game and run it. It's all this FUD that people are saying, and spreading, and a simple search in post history shows they don't even have a pc, or never gamed on one, yet claim otherwise. Using Google search to try and find all kinda odd situations to support an argument, are very easy to see past and debunk.
I think nier also had issues, and there's also the games using denuvo.
 

DoctaThompson

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The question is if they are rdna too. Older rumors suggested next gen xbox was based on vega architecture.

I think nier also had issues, and there's also the games using denuvo.
Denuvo has been debunked so many times. It's not much of a performance hit as you think, if any at all. Still can do so much more than any console. So if i experience a half of a single fps difference, I won't care.
 

OSC

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Denuvo has been debunked so many times. It's not much of a performance hit as you think, if any at all. Still can do so much more than any console. So if i experience a half of a single fps difference, I won't care.
In ffxv some claim that while denuvo doesn't affect fps it affects frame pacing
It is the frametime/pacing that is the issue, since it causes stutters and stops Vsync from working (seemingly). A game with good frame pacing can be fantastic at 45fps, a game with frame pacing issues can still be junk above 120fps.

I used to play iRacing a lot and it had issues with frame pacing that meant you'd need to be running at 300fps to iron out the issue. That'd probably fix my issues on FF15 too, only that level of performance is simply not possible, I had to tweak to the finest degree to get it running 60fps while not looking like a washed out mess... There are simply compromises that are hard to make in either direction.

So it is true that frame pacing is more important than ultimate FPS in a lot of cases. -Bigbazz steamcommunity user
 

ZywyPL

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The question first and foremost is, with all those sophisticated dynamic resolution techniques, adaptive-sync, VRS, SSDs and what's not coming to PS5 and XBX, will we have to worry about the performance at all?

Because let's take 4K60 as a given for a second, what competitive would PC have to offer (other than troubleshooting, maintenance, hackers/aimbotters, viruses etc)? And at what price, given a single PC parts are already as expensive as both consoles combined?

We all see the trend that's going on for a couple of years now, where (high-end) PC gaming is becoming a more and more expensive niche for only the diehard enthusiast, who are willing to drop 3-5k every few years on the hardware and constantly take care of it. All of that for basically nothing but more pixels and/or frames.

So I ask again, if the consoles will actually hit the magical 4K60, what will be the PC's counter offer?

And this article is a one big obvious clickbait if you really think about it, talking about performance of a hardware that basically doesn't exist yet is questionable, to say the least. I will care if I'll see the actual results, if the next-gen consoles will run games at 26FPS in 1600p then I will have all the reasons to care/worry about it, but not today knowing just the logo or the case...
 

DoctaThompson

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In ffxv some claim that while denuvo doesn't affect fps it affects frame pacing
And that can be a problem with a game, but i would rather play with much higher fps with frame pacing, than play at 30fps and under, with frame stuttering. Still not the best experience. But that falls on the developers, not the hardware, and pc will still have the better performance.
 
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DoctaThompson

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The question first and foremost is, with all those sophisticated dynamic resolution techniques, adaptive-sync, VRS, SSDs and what's not coming to PS5 and XBX, will we have to worry about the performance at all?

Because let's take 4K60 as a given for a second, what competitive would PC have to offer (other than troubleshooting, maintenance, hackers/aimbotters, viruses etc)? And at what price, given a single PC parts are already as expensive as both consoles combined?

We all see the trend that's going on for a couple of years now, where (high-end) PC gaming is becoming a more and more expensive niche for only the diehard enthusiast, who are willing to drop 3-5k every few years on the hardware and constantly take care of it. All of that for basically nothing but more pixels and/or frames.

So I ask again, if the consoles will actually hit the magical 4K60, what will be the PC's counter offer?

And this article is a one big obvious clickbait if you really think about it, talking about performance of a hardware that basically doesn't exist yet is questionable, to say the least. I will care if I'll see the actual results, if the next-gen consoles will run games at 26FPS in 1600p then I will have all the reasons to care/worry about it, but not today knowing just the logo or the case...
We still will hit 4k 60fps with the highest settings enabled, and all effects on. While consoles will struggle to do the same at a lower fps. Pc is still a cheaper platform than consoles when you take into account of having to pay for xbl or psn for the console cycle. If you are an "enthusiast" as you say, take into account of this.

You pay 600 up front for the console, you get xbl or psn for 6 years, add 300 on top. You get more storage as 1tb isn't enough, another 200 for *consoles* (pc players get parts cheaper). Then you get the midlife upgrade to the Xbox series x upgrade or ps5 pro. Another 600.

You could have gotten a pc that will beat the ps6 or Xbox 2 at that point. Consoles are giving a go at pc specs (just like last gen when consoles aimed at 4k 60fps, and fell flat on their faces). Now they are aiming at raytracing. So I'm guessing, sub 4k, and still unable to maintain 30fps.
 
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pawel86ck

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So pretty much only 2 games that had issues in over 4 years time. Can't say that's any worse than playing those exact games on console where they drop into the low 20fps. Has that been fixed yet? No. Seems like you had other issues with your pc. Just about all games don't exhibit problems, unless it's user error. Very rare cases are compatibility issues, and just need to update something.

Otherwise, pc had a pretty robust and streamlined gaming, that doesn't require fiddling with files, or having to do anything others then install the game and run it. It's all this FUD that people are saying, and spreading, and a simple search in post history shows they don't even have a pc, or never gamed on one, yet claim otherwise. Using Google search to try and find all kinda odd situations to support an argument, are very easy to see past and debunk.
I build my first PC in 1999, it was P2 400MHz + TNT2 32MB + 64MB (RAM was extremely expensive back then, however my parents bought me another 64MB few months later). During 21 years only Gears Of War 4 refused to run on my PC (I had 8700K + 1080ti two years ago), but thats just one game.

So I was lucky however my friends werent. I had to fix all kinds of problems on their PCs and If you look at steam forums or Nvidia drivers subforum you will see pretty much all games have problems on certain configurations.

BTW- I never had problems running new games on modern PC, however it's different story with old games running on much better hardware and different OS. Many windows 98/XP era games dont work correctly on windows 10, although sometimes there are workarounds.

The question is if they are rdna too. Older rumors suggested next gen xbox was based on vega architecture.

I think nier also had issues, and there's also the games using denuvo.
There is no such thing as RDNA or Vega FLOPS. 2x xbox x GPU power is exactly 12TF (FLOPS is GPU power metric). Keep in mind, Phil Spencer also compared XSX performance to 8x Xbox One power (1.3-1.4TF GCN Tahiti), and only 12TF fits the description for both.
 

Azurro

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And that can be a problem with a game, but i would rather play with much higher fps with frame pacing, than play at 30fps and under, with frame stuttering. Still not the best experience. But that falls on the developers, not the hardware, and pc will still have the better performance.
DoctaThompson in animated form. ;)



Just kidding. :D
 
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DoctaThompson

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I build my first PC in 1999, it was P2 400MHz + TNT2 32MB + 64MB (RAM was extremely expensive back then, however my parents bought me another 64MB few months later). During 21 years only Gears Of War 4 refused to run on my PC (I had 8700K + 1080ti two years ago), but thats just one game.

So I was lucky however my friends werent. I had to fix all kinds of problems on their PCs and If you look at steam forums or Nvidia drivers subforum you will see pretty much all games have problems on certain configurations.

BTW- I never had problems running new games on modern PC, however it's different story with old games running on much better hardware and different OS. Many windows 98/XP era games dont work correctly on windows 10, although sometimes there are workarounds.


There is no such thing as RDNA or Vega FLOPS. 2x xbox x GPU power is exactly 12TF (FLOPS is GPU power metric). Keep in mind, Phil Spencer also compared XSX performance to 8x Xbox One power (1.3-1.4TF GCN Tahiti), and only 12TF fits the description for both.
Imagine trying to play a 360 game on Xbox one at release date. That's what it seems like you're friends problems boiled down to. Probably bought hardware around 10 years ago, or even earlier. They were trying to play a new age game, with specs that require more than they had. If it was different, let me know, and what specs they had.

Older games can run on pc,. But it's like trying to play nes games on an Xbox one x, big difference in architecture. I can play games from 1995 (who remembers games like c dogs), while consoles can barely play a game from last gen, so that shouldn't be a negative thing. You just gotta see what you need to do, in order to run it. Better option than not having an option at all.
 
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Enjay

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Feb 18, 2009
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I think paying $1000 plus having to do research on parts and shit like that and then having to deal with every little problem the pc gives you when I can just buy a playstation to be an incredibly stupid waste of time and effort.