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GhaleonQ

Member
Aug 24, 2006
11,572
18
1,260
Milwaukee/Wisconsin Rapids/Hanover
Even money is virtual. Our lives are virtual too!

I don't even exist! I'm actually a program that copies and pastes paragraphs from Hardcore Gaming 101, Luther's catechism, auto-translated essays about foreign art, and the 1st 30 search results for "pretentious garbage!"

So, as I was saying, even though it's not quite as funny, Space Quest V almost makes up for it in other areas. The narrative as a whole is much more focused, and it feels less like Roger is simply stumbling through various situations until the game decides to end. Speaking of which, Roger is a much more fleshed out character. In the previous games, Roger only spoke a few lines, with much of the humor coming from the narrator, but here, our hero comes off as clumsy, yet well meaning and likable hero. The secondary characters - sarcastic pilot Droole, man-hating Flo, and cranky engineer Cliffy, and even nemesis Captain Quirk - all have more personality than is typical of the series. The art style has changed from the other VGA games too, with more of a retro comic book feel, which fits in with the cheesy sci-fi theme. So even though it's not nearly as off-the-wall as some of the other games in the series, Space Quest V is still another fine adventure.

...

But, really, I'm still shocked that they aren't simply restricting accounts so that people can play the games that they thought they purchased.
 

GoofsterStud

Member
Mar 22, 2007
5,838
0
0
tistats.com
I'm not a expert in the subject but I think class action lawsuits are less about getting large sums of money for the individual victims/plaintiffs and more about forcing companies to pay a significant amount of money in damages to cover everyone in the suit that would otherwise be a drop-in-the-bucket if it were just a single person/handful of people.

Exactly...stop acting like Class Action Lawsuits don't accomplish anything. Remember the Sony DRM that was a true root kit??? Well if it wasn't for Class Action Lawsuits, everything would be using that root kit that could mess up your computer. CD, Movie, Game... Thank the heavens that the class action lawsuit against such tactics won.
 

Vaporak

Member
Aug 15, 2006
6,333
0
0
I mean, Valve's recent legal loophole shenanigans has not deterred me from using their service in the least...But I'd like to know how it is legal.

The only reason it is news is because Valve was one of the only companies WITHOUT clauses like this. Basically every software company does this to varying degree's of legality depending on where you live.
 

GoofsterStud

Member
Mar 22, 2007
5,838
0
0
tistats.com
The only reason it is news is because Valve was one of the only companies WITHOUT clauses like this. Basically every software company does this to varying degree's of legality depending on where you live.

Or maybe it's news because the other places didn't lock you out of your single player games, or block you from accessing your licenses if you didn't agree.

:-/ I switched services, but even they didn't treat me this badly.
 

Arksy

Member
Aug 5, 2011
7,172
12
695
I'm pretty sure the doctrine of equitable unconscionability comes into play here. You agreed to a contract for services and paid money and then the other side unilaterally changed the terms of the contract with no remedy on your end.
 

Cameron122

Member
Sep 30, 2011
6,167
0
0
28
Dallas, Texas
The only reason it is news is because Valve was one of the only companies WITHOUT clauses like this. Basically every software company does this to varying degree's of legality depending on where you live.

I'll have to read up on what all of these means before I make a judgement. The whole "being locked out of your own games permanently" sounds iffy, but it's only at the User's discretion, right?
 

Nome

Member
Mar 3, 2009
2,253
0
0
What do you expect? It's like every other DD service. This entire thing feels overblown.
 

2MF

Member
Jun 3, 2011
3,827
0
0
There are not many companies that can hold your software hostage, let alone a huge portion of it.
 

GoofsterStud

Member
Mar 22, 2007
5,838
0
0
tistats.com
What do you expect? It's like every other DD service. This entire thing feels overblown.

No... When they did this and I said no, I was still able to play my single player games. Just no longer install updates to the game or purchase new games. Steam doesn't even offer that, they lock you out of everything, including your keys that were never used.

Am I the only one that sees the difference. I give up. I'm mad about the situation.
 
Sep 5, 2011
4,405
0
0
What do you expect? It's like every other DD service. This entire thing feels overblown.

We are still working out the standards for DD but if you compare this to physical games, there is no way it would fly. Imagine if Wal Mart changed some policy and you either had to agree or they would take all the games away that you bought from them.

If that sounds ridiculous, it's because it is.
 

Mattakuevan

Member
Jun 28, 2011
1,677
0
0
This makes me wish GoG had more games. As it is I won't buy a game on steam unless its heavily discounted, there's just an air of distrust I've never been able to shake about the service.

I usually end up double dipping if GoG gets it. Too bad it is unlikely they'll ever reach the number of games Steam has.
 

Monty Mole

Member
Dec 15, 2008
7,235
1
705
I think Steam Support could have worded their response a little better. As it stands, it sounds quite arrogant.
 

Insayne

Member
Jun 20, 2009
188
0
940
When this popped up in steam the other day I'm not sure if I hit accept or decline on the second agreement that came up lol.. Is there anyway to tell? Like would it lock me out if I had hot decline?

Steam would close on you. Next time you start it, it would prompt you again.
 

Palette Swap

Member
May 13, 2009
12,826
0
0
That place there.
I'm pretty sure the day Valve starts banning people from their accounts for no good reason is the day they'll all start pirating.

edit to be a bit clearer: not that I feel particularly concerned about that EULA change, given EULAs aren't worth shit here and I haven't had any reason so far to believe I'll want to sue them.
 

Sentenza

Member
Dec 3, 2011
15,132
2,865
970
That's it, then. I'm going to lock my Steam account.
Gaming had a good run but there's no reason to continue.
 

Jac_Solar

Member
Jan 27, 2012
2,765
0
0
Did Steam games even work without Steam before this, though?

I recently had to re-install Steam -- and it automatically uninstalled every game I had on Steam. I didn't have many games on Steam, since the concept can't be trusted whatsoever, but still annoying.

I suppose that you can keep your games and reinstall Steam, or whatever, but the issue here is that the possibility of removing all your games when you uninstall Steam shouldn't even be an option.

Oh yeah, not to mention how AppIds can entangle your library if they get messed up, if you install a game with a wrong value.

Also; you are forced to open any game you may want to play through Steam in some way -- there are so many additional barriers, or "elements" that are a part of every steam-game installation that are totally unnecessary, and are only there to serve the publisher and prevent any ease of use if you want to install mods, or change patches, or take a game installer elsewhere.

With that said, Valve, despite, for some odd reason, the acceptance here on GAF and elsewhere, has been pretty bad -- Steam games should have been like GoG games from the start. Their fascist ideologies are now more apparent though, so maybe people will take note.

Note: I only recently started using Steam, like a month ago -- and, even though I generally strongly dislike the idea of going digital at the moment, I didn't realise how ridiculously absurd it was until then basically.

The reason I'm against digital at the moment is because the laws are still outdated, and there aren't any agencies or government facilities that could protect the consumers.

And there are already a bunch of morally bankrupt companies that take advantage of their customers because of a lack of new laws.
 

sazzy

Member
Dec 30, 2006
6,220
154
1,465
I can't wait to see the eventual meltdowns of Valve worshippers.
 

Nome

Member
Mar 3, 2009
2,253
0
0
I think Steam Support could have worded their response a little better. As it stands, it sounds quite arrogant.

It's not arrogant; it's a canned response. All support centers use it.
The tech misread/poorly interpreted the original question, then used a canned response that failed to actually address the question directly.
 

GoofsterStud

Member
Mar 22, 2007
5,838
0
0
tistats.com
Next time on Steam the ongoing series.

Steam now requires a $10 yearly subscription to use the service. Do you accept the new terms?

To be continued...
 

Orca

Member
Aug 6, 2011
4,473
0
710
The only reason it is news is because Valve was one of the only companies WITHOUT clauses like this. Basically every software company does this to varying degree's of legality depending on where you live.

I believe you could say no to the Microsoft or Sony clauses without it costing you your entire game library. That would be why it's news.
 

zerokoolpsx

Member
Nov 2, 2009
11,897
1
0
GoG or physical media. No one wants to be locked out of their games.
It would make more sense to restrict the account than deactivate it.
That response is cold as fuck.
 

Carcetti

Member
Jan 14, 2011
5,439
0
0
Socialist Euro Dystopia
Terribly worded reply from Valve. I guess their hiring and quality standards don't apply to the customer service part of the company. Very passive aggressive, in the sort of 'nyah nyah you want me to take your games' way.
 

Psi

Member
Dec 11, 2010
1,380
0
0
This is why I treat Steam like a glorified rental service. It's only a matter of time until people get burned one way or another.
 

GoofsterStud

Member
Mar 22, 2007
5,838
0
0
tistats.com
Can't you just use Steam in offline mode?

No... It closes...

So many summer games I never used the license...so many games I can't play.. At least the other DD providers that did this provided better customer service to those that declined. Steam is far the worst regarding this situation....
 

Femmeworth

Banned
Aug 4, 2006
29,831
0
0
Texas
I'm suddenly reminded why I only buy stuff on sale. Basically we're just renting games from Valve. :\ I wonder if they recycle keys.
 

Orayn

Member
Jul 4, 2010
34,288
4
920
Minnesota
This is why I treat Steam like a glorified rental service. It's only a matter of time until people get burned one way or another.

While you are correct, I'm having a hard time thinking of any realistic "doomsday scenario" where the fault will lie with Valve rather than a blundering publisher.
 

Lancehead

Member
Oct 27, 2011
2,788
0
0
This is not something new is it? I assume this has always been the case.

While you are correct, I'm having a hard time thinking of any realistic "doomsday scenario" where the fault will lie with Valve rather than a blundering publisher.

In such a scenario I see Valve's responsibility as to maintain servers to allow users to download DRM-free versions of the games they own.
 

Jackpot

Banned
Nov 8, 2011
11,465
3
0
Foresaw all this. That's why I only have physical copies. Relying on a publisher having their shit together in order for you to be able to launch a game is a recipe for disaster.
 

Choc

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
10,664
0
0
i'd love Valve try and defend this in a court of law in Australia. Pro tip: They wouldn't get very far.

I highly suggest valve reads the Australian Competition and Consumer Act 2011.

I have to deal with that act all the time at work, its a massive protection for consumers against shit like this.

GL Gabe, you need it in Australia.
 
Apr 24, 2010
3,226
0
0
Reading this after the week we've had in the Olympics, the whole "It's not their fault they did something shitty, it's not against the rules, get over it!!" response is really unbearably grating. The fact that something like this isn't explicitly forbidden shouldn't make it excusable (or, worse, celebrated, in the case of people praising how cleverly their national team disingenuously worked the rules to win a medal).
 

RustyO

Member
Dec 11, 2008
1,595
0
760
I need to go read up on this a lot more...

I'm pretty sure the doctrine of equitable unconscionability comes into play here. You agreed to a contract for services and paid money and then the other side unilaterally changed the terms of the contract with no remedy on your end.

This. Initial thoughts are as per Arksy's other comments in the thread.

And AFAIK, a contract/agreement is just a loose definition; nothing within that can override existing laws; bills or rights. i.e. contract can't cover illegal areas; override state/federal law etc (Australian tort law)
 

Choc

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
10,664
0
0
the apologists in this thread are amazing.

You really want your rights run over that much? You take to much for granted people.

Yes Valve can say in their TOS what they want. But tehy are not above the law and not only that you own a licence to own the game.

You do not own the game, but you also do not own the game if you buy a physical copy. The company owns the game as that is the source code.

You own a licence to use the game legally. They cannot just take that away (well in this land called Australia anyway... Americans clearly don't give a fuck about consumer protection) without some level of compensation.

Yes the jurisdiction of Australia may not apply but i am stunned how much americans let their rights trampled on. However considering that Valve specifically price for Australia and deal with Australian publishers sometimes, i'd say it does apply.

Their si a famous saying. Society only puts up with what it deems acceptable.

If you rise up and get angry, things change.......
 

Orin GA

I wish I could hat you to death
Jun 6, 2004
5,543
7
1,570
Valve will keep getting my money as long as they don't betray my trust. They aren't gonna lock you out of your games for no good reason. They know they would lose large amounts of revenue if that were the case.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Jul 30, 2009
73,799
7
1,030
Western Australia
This is shady as hell.

GoG is the future.

In an alternate universe, maybe, but not in this one -- at least, not for the forseeable future. There's a reason publishers aren't lining up to release their newer titles on the service, and it starts with "DRM" and ends with "free". From a cursory glance at GoG's games list, it seems Ubi is the only large publisher brave enough to release current-gen titles on the service, but even so the most recent one -- Far Cry 2 -- is four years old.