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[DarkLordMalik]

Game was a financial success =/= Game is loved by most

Point me towards the surge of negative reviews? The game has more than 100 reviews on on metacritic and none of them are outright negative with lowest score bring 6.

It is well received no matter how you put it. Now the opinion of fans, especially FF fans, is meaningless. Every game in the series is divisive among fans save for VI or VII.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Point me towards the surge of negative reviews? The game has more than 100 reviews on on metacritic and none of them are outright negative with lowest score bring 6.

It is well received no matter how you put it. Now the opinion of fans, especially FF fans, is meaningless. Every game in the series is divisive among fans save for VI or VII.

Yeah, I think it has around the same score as XIII. Another great game.

 

[Fou-Lu]

Yeah, I think it has around the same score as XIII. Another great game.

I love both XIII and XV.

Spoiler

Don't kill me, I love all the games. IX and VII are still my series favourites, followed by VI and X.

 

[ULTROS!]

Every FF game is great and they all have their own flavors. Apples to oranges.



Except for XIV 1.0, that one sucks.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Yeah, I think it has around the same score as XIII. Another great game.

I enjoyed it so I don't disagree.

Now the sequels for it though, mediocre to terrible.

 

[SilverArrow20XX]

XIII-2 was so much better than XIII though. XIII is like, the definition of mediocre.

 

[ULTROS!]

XIII-2 was so much better than XIII though. XIII is like, the definition of mediocre.

It had more content and more branching stuff to do but the story wasn't any better (nor did it look any better than XIII).

It's still good though, but it lacked the polish that XIII had.

 

[Fou-Lu]

I like XIII-2 more than XIII but not by a huge amount. I am a sucker for time travel.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

If we don't count fans opinions we end with the notion XIII was a good game.

No thx.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

It had more content and more branching stuff to do but the story wasn't any better (nor did it look any better than XIII).

It's still good though, but it lacked the polish that XIII had.

Yes. It had better gameplay but it reused so many assets and like you said, story wasn't as good and it lacked the polish of a mainline game.

I also hated the main characters and the way shoehorned lightning in the game.

If we don't count fans opinions we end with the notion XIII was a good game.

No thx.

If you use FF fans opinion, you will just end up with every game being divisive. Even there are fans who loved XIII and there are those who hated it.

 

[ULTROS!]

If we don't count fans opinions we end with the notion XIII was a good game.

No thx.

Does it count that there are people who liked Lightning and hold her up high in the FF cast?

I'm OK with Lightning but I know people who love Lightning.

 

[Kyoufu]

I don't want to live in a world where XIII is considered good.

 

[Fou-Lu]

I don't want to live in a world where XIII is considered good.

It was a 9/10 for me. Sorry.

 

[SporeCrawler]

Point me towards the surge of negative reviews? The game has more than 100 reviews on on metacritic and none of them are outright negative with lowest score bring 6.

It is well received no matter how you put it. Now the opinion of fans, especially FF fans, is meaningless. Every game in the series is divisive among fans save for VI or VII.

while i do agree that FF games are divisive its mostly because those games are very unique. FF IV-XIII all have really different battle systems and character progression, sans the online ones. i do not think there is any game on the market that even resembles FFXIII battle system for example.

FFXV is a game that really follows the open world genre closely until they hit a point where they decided to switch to corridor gaming again. also the battle system is really nothing special (once again closely following kingdom hearts) quite the contrary actually, it is really badly realized and the camera work is atrocious.

so yeah you can say that fan opinions are meaningless, maybe they are. but i do think FFXV will hurt the franchise in the long run because I do not think it was satifying for your open world gaming fan nor your FF fan.

It had more content and more branching stuff to do but the story wasn't any better (nor did it look any better than XIII).

It's still good though, but it lacked the polish that XIII had.

FFXIII had too mich handholding and once the battle system was fully available the game was already at its end.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Does it count that there are people who liked Lightning and hold her up high in the FF cast?

I'm OK with Lightning but I know people who love Lightning.

I liked Lightning on XIII, she was awful in the next two games, but she was ok in the first game. I still think XIII is a mediocre JRPG.

 

[ULTROS!]

FFXIII had too mich handholding and once the battle system was fully available the game was already at its end.

I think what made people like FFXIII is that it's a speedy and relatively easy FF to get into in these times especially if you're interested in how a JRPG mechanic works out. I dunno but that's just my two cents.

Not to say I like it or hate it, but the mechanics are simplified in a way that it's easy to get into and difficult to master (the harder Cieth missions).

 

[DarkLordMalik]

while i do agree that FF games are divisive its mostly because those games are very unique. FF IV-XIII all have really different battle systems and character progression, sans the online ones. i do not think there is any game on the market that even resembles FFXIII battle system for example.

FFXV is a game that really follows the open world genre closely until they hit a point where they decided to switch to corridor gaming again. also the battle system is really nothing special (once again closely following kingdom hearts) quite the contrary actually, it is really badly realized and the camera work is atrocious.

so yeah you can say that fan opinions are meaningless, maybe they are. but i do think FFXV will hurt the franchise in the long run because I do not think it was satifying for your open world gaming fan nor your FF fan.

It will hurt the franchise the same way XIII did. In other words, it won't do shit.

FFXVI will be announced and a new hype cycle will begin. It will use a completely new concept and battle system and then when it is out, you will get the same haters and lovers of the game posting about its negatives and positives. Some will call it the best game in series. Just your typical FF cycle. Yes there are fans who list XIII as the best in the series as absurd as it may seem, I feel the same for those who list XII as the best.

 

[TheCed]

Point me towards the surge of negative reviews? The game has more than 100 reviews on on metacritic and none of them are outright negative with lowest score bring 6.

It is well received no matter how you put it. Now the opinion of fans, especially FF fans, is meaningless. Every game in the series is divisive among fans save for VI or VII.

Sales =/= Fan Reception
Critics aren't always on the same lines has the Playerbase. I sure you could name a few games that were destroyed by critics but loved by gamers and vice versa.

I can also say that I would have rated the game higher after my first few hours because I was under the impression that the gameplay could evolve from what I felt was a solid basis. But over time, my opinion changed, the more I played, the more I found things to be boring and repetitive and from what I've heard here, on other forums and the opinions of my friends... the feeling was shared by many, not all, but many.

You can chose to blind yourself from all the criticism that FFXV has received over time if you want but it's still there. Its far from a solid game. It has good ideas but nothing really feels as finished/polished as the previous entries.

 

[Death Penalty]

No.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I am excited to see what Tabata might be able to do for a large-scale project without any sort of development drama behind it, though. Both Type-0 and XV suffered to different extents from massive changes in scope and direction in the middle of development, and I think without baggage he and his team could be capable of some really cool things.

Maybe.

 

[Koozek]

Interested to see what he does.

A new IP means it can't be a Type-0 sequel, right? What happened to that?

Is that in the same time chamber like FFVIIR?

Funny coincidence, but just a few hours ago Tabata shortly talked about Type-Next in a small interview and confirmed what I said yesterday:

Prior to Final Fantasy XV, Tabata was the director on Final Fantasy Type-o. After beating the game, fans were shown a teaser trailer for a possible sequel, called only ”Type-1," or ”Type-Next." When asked if his next project would be related to ”Type-1," Tabata said no.

”Nothing from ‘Type-1.' We don't have any plan for it," he said. ”For me and a lot of the dev team, ‘Type-1' is something that interests them and something that they eventually want to pursue, but the current part of where we're at after doing all these things for Final Fantasy XV, we think, it's most appropriate to build on that experience and build and do it even bigger and more expansive for the next project. So, at the time being, ‘Type-1' doesn't fit in line with that approach."​

 

[SilverArrow20XX]

It had more content and more branching stuff to do but the story wasn't any better (nor did it look any better than XIII).

It's still good though, but it lacked the polish that XIII had.

I'd say the story certainly was better. It was campy as hell, but the characters and plot points were all developed a hell of a lot better than XIII's were (or weren't). The gameplay was also improved significantly. Not to mention the god tier OST with Origa. Other than the less polished graphics, I'd say it's better in every way.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Sales =/= Fan Reception
Critics aren't always on the same lines has the Playerbase. I sure you could name a few games that were destroyed by critics but loved by gamers and vice versa.

I can also say that I would have rated the game higher after my first few hours because I was under the impression that the gameplay could evolve from what I felt was a solid basis. But over time, my opinion changed, the more I played, the more I found things to be boring and repetitive and from what I've heard here, on other forums and the opinions of my friends... the feeling was shared by many, not all, but many.

You can chose to blind yourself from all the criticism that FFXV has received over time if you want but it's still there. Its far from a solid game. It has good ideas but nothing really feels as finished/polished as the previous entries.

Dude. So at the end, all you are saying is that critics are meaningless and then somehow making the assumption that the fan reception is negative. This is one huge leap of logic here.

Not all of these so called positive reviews were posted on launch day btw. Go to the reviews page and you can see the date they were published, some of them with score above 9 were posted weeks after launch. Do you think these critics also rushed through the game or even though they took their time, they only reviewed the first few chapters?

http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/final-fantasy-xv/critic-reviews

Just say it that you hate FFXV and stop trying to force the narrative that it is a bad game. It is GOOD game with flaws and there is nothing wrong with saying it is a good game. I am not blind to its criticism but I am always baffled when I hear 'fan reception' and it is mostly posts here on Neo GAF that are the most toxic. But this happens to every game here. The Last of Us and Uncharted 4 also get hate here and it doesn't mean the fan reception is negative to these games.

 

[FinalAres]

Funny coincidence, but just a few hours ago Tabata shortly talked about Type-Next in a small interview and confirmed what I said yesterday:

Prior to Final Fantasy XV, Tabata was the director on Final Fantasy Type-o. After beating the game, fans were shown a teaser trailer for a possible sequel, called only “Type-1,” or “Type-Next.” When asked if his next project would be related to “Type-1,” Tabata said no.

“Nothing from ‘Type-1.’ We don’t have any plan for it,” he said. “For me and a lot of the dev team, ‘Type-1’ is something that interests them and something that they eventually want to pursue, but the current part of where we’re at after doing all these things for Final Fantasy XV, we think, it’s most appropriate to build on that experience and build and do it even bigger and more expansive for the next project. So, at the time being, ‘Type-1’ doesn’t fit in line with that approach.”​

Which is exactly what I wanted to hear. Build upon FFXV and make something better.

 

[Perfo]

It was a 9/10 for me. Sorry.

10 out of 10 for me. Enough said!

That said I hope Tabata next game is a gatcha mobile game that will keep him busy for a decade through tremendous success!

 

[encephalon]

Dude. So at the end, all you are saying is that critics are meaningless and then somehow making the assumption that the fan reception is negative. This is one huge leap of logic here.

Not all of these so called positive reviews were posted on launch day btw. Go to the reviews page and you can see the date they were published, some of them with score above 9 were posted weeks after launch. Do you think these critics also rushed through the game or even though they took their time, they only reviewed the first few chapters?

http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/final-fantasy-xv/critic-reviews

Just say it that you hate FFXV and stop trying to force the narrative that it is a bad game. It is GOOD game with flaws and there is nothing wrong with saying it is a good game. I am not blind to its criticism but I am always baffled when I hear 'fan reception' and it is mostly posts here on Neo GAF that are the most toxic. But this happens to every game here. The Last of Us and Uncharted 4 also get hate here and it doesn't mean the fan reception is negative to these games.

The reviews make sense if you play maybe ten hours of the game. Beyond that point, words and phrases like "good," "complete," "incomplete," and "story" start to seem a little generous.

I'm sitting here trying to think of a single game that released in a state similar to ffxv. Perhaps the best word for the title would be "confounding."

 

[DarkLordMalik]

10 out of 10 for me. Enough said!

That said I hope Tabata next game is a gatcha mobile game that will keep him busy for a decade through tremendous success!

Sucks for you then. Unlike Toriyama, Tabata heads BD2 and has a lot of technical background so he works with the r&d team at SE as well. He is here to stay for the foreseeable future and will remain an important part of SE unlike Ito and Toriyama.

It is pretty much a guarantee he is not going back to mobile anytime soon.

 

[Koozek]

10 out of 10 for me. Enough said!

That said I hope Tabata next game is a gatcha mobile game that will keep him busy for a decade through tremendous success!

Like Toriyama now with Mobius?

 

[theofficefan99]

Point me towards the surge of negative reviews? The game has more than 100 reviews on on metacritic and none of them are outright negative with lowest score bring 6.

It is well received no matter how you put it. Now the opinion of fans, especially FF fans, is meaningless. Every game in the series is divisive among fans save for VI or VII.

omg. Stop pretending that XV receives the same amount of hate as pre-XIII FF's!!! Stop being delusional. Seriously.

Sucks for you then. Unlike Toriyama, Tabata heads BD2 and has a lot of technical background so he works with the r&d team at SE as well. He is here to stay for the foreseeable future and will remain an important part of SE unlike Ito and Toriyama.

It is pretty much a guarantee he is not going back to mobile anytime soon.

All of your posts sound like a teenage girl gushing over this guy she likes in her Algebra class to her friends, her friends calling him ugly, and then her being insecure about it and attacking them for not agreeing that he's hot.

 

[Desi]

In the DLC field, I would be interested in a more thorough experience of the rest of Eos. For FFXV there was no point in actually dipping into a lot of areas that didn't have any real importance for the bros but I would really like a undefiled Lucis (which was never in the cards) and some more fleshed out stuff around the other continents. If they want to keep it exploration similar to how the DLC is, then they could do Lucis with Cor and the rest of the world with whomever. Overall it should be a bit of fun to see more. They helped construct a really magnificent world with FFXV with some interesting history and because of that, I would enjoy spending some more time in it if possible.

 

[ULTROS!]

I'm sitting here trying to think of a single game that released in a state similar to ffxv. Perhaps the best word for the title would be "confounding."

You mean "incomplete"? Then this one definitely fits the incomplete bill:

All of your posts sound like a teenage girl gushing over this guy she likes in her Algebra class to her friends, her friends calling him ugly, and then her being insecure about it and attacking them for not agreeing that he's hot.

To put it on another perspective, the "haters" are like these people who keep saying THAT BOY IS SO UGLY (but in reality, he's not so bad) and announce it over the PA system that he's the world's ugliest boy ever.

 

[Akainu]

To put it on another perspective, the "haters" are like these people who keep saying THAT BOY IS SO UGLY (but in reality, he's not so bad) and announce it over the PA system that he's the world's ugliest boy ever.

You are both off it's more like your friends telling you that the cute guy you like actually has no personally or interest of his own and just follows trends.

 

[TheCed]

Edit : Erased my post because there was no actual discussion going on.

Just 2 different opinions that will never be in agreement.

And I'm guilty of being part of the problem.

 

[KZXcellent]

Fan opinions matter. Quite a bit, and Square clearly agrees going by their actions in 2016.

Let's look at Final Fantasy XIII. That game did well by critics but fans? Not so much. It had plenty of fans, sure. But the majority of opinions on the Internet over the years has been negative on it. Complaints of the dumb jargon, bad story, boring hallways and bad characters. XIII damaged the brand whether you think the game is good or not.

Square even felt the need to throw XIII under the bus during Uncovered: Final Fantasy XV - an event they made to announce the release date of the XV and some other crap. They brought out Sakaguchi to shill for XV and talk about how the series "lost it's way." but "it's back on track now!" It was Square's desperate attempt to appeal to lapsed fans by stepping on the previous entry. A pretty sad display but it happened. They could have let the game speak for itself without that but they felt the need to make XV feel like the revival of the series.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Fan opinions matter. Quite a bit, and Square clearly agrees going by their actions in 2016.

Let's look at Final Fantasy XIII. That game did well by critics but fans? Not so much. It had plenty of fans, sure. But the majority of opinions on the Internet over the years has been negative on it. Complaints of the dumb jargon, bad story, boring hallways and bad characters. XIII damaged the brand whether you think the game is good or not.

Square even felt the need to throw XIII under the bus during Uncovered: Final Fantasy XV - an event they made to announce the release date of the XV and some other crap. They brought out Sakaguchi to shill for XV and talk about how the series "lost it's way." but "it's back on track now!" It was Square's desperate attempt to appeal to lapsed fans by stepping on the previous entry. A pretty sad display but it happened. They could have let the game speak for itself without that but they felt the need to make XV feel like the revival of the series.

Ok. Lets see if SE does the same to XV and throws it and Tabata under the bus because of the 'fan outrage' or they double down on XV and its concepts and make another open world XVI.

If they try to approach XVI with back to old school narrative, then you can say they weren't satisfied with user feedback from XV. But nothing that I have seen so far indicates this to be the case aside from the toxicity here.

 

[KZXcellent]

Ok. Lets see if SE does the same to XV and throws it and Tabata under the bus because of the 'fan outrage' or they double down on XV and its concepts and make another open world XVI.

If they try to approach XVI with back to old school narrative, then you can say they weren't satisfied with user feedback from XV. But nothing that I have seen so far indicates this to be the case aside from the toxicity here.

I'm not saying the same thing is happening here. I'm just saying that they do indeed care about what their fans think. Of course I think the hate for XV is overblown, a majority of it is on this board and is not on the same level as XIII at all.

I just find the idea of ignoring fan reception as silly.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

I'm not saying the same thing is happening here. I'm just saying that they do indeed care about what their fans think. Of course I think the hate for XV is overblown, a majority of it is on this board and is not on the same level as XIII at all.

I just find the idea of ignoring fan reception as silly.

It might not be silly but there is no way to actually gauge fan reception of a game aside from saying 'anecdotal evidence' or through public polls, but it only applies to a limited fanbase. This is why using this metric in discussion is kind of useless because both sides will twist it to support their narrative. Developers can have a better idea of fan feedback though.

Atleast with critics, you can have an idea of the general reception.

 

[ULTROS!]

I'm not saying the same thing is happening here. I'm just saying that they do indeed care about what their fans think. Of course I think the hate for XV is overblown, a majority of it is on this board and is not on the same level as XIII at all.

I just find the idea of ignoring fan reception as silly.

I'd say XIII-2 was the result of fan reception and the feedback from XIII. If you hated XIII-2, you know who to place the blame on (fans and Toriyama).

 

[danm999]

FFXV 'felt' finished and would have likely been called so if the developers didn't opt to go for such a strong post-launch support for it. Adding more content to it will always make the game feel unfinished.

The game feels unfinished because huge parts of the story, world-building and motivations of several major and minor characters are completely absent.

There are literally points in the story where characters basically announce they're going to go do their DLC I cannot imagine how raggedy that would have looked at launch.

 

[Kazuhira]

It was a 9/10 for me. Sorry.

It was a very good game overall.
I was dissapointed it at first but i'm suffering open world fatigue so being more linear and story focused is a plus for me right now.
It didn't need another 2 sequels though,the ending wrapped up everything pretty nicely imo.

 

[FinalAres]

I don't think I realised before how disgusting the FF fanbase is. Its not enough to dislike a game, but the minority also want to force everyone else to dislike the game.

There's a point when it stops being intelligent discussion and starts being blind evangelism.

 

[Fou-Lu]

I don't think I realised before how disgusting the FF fanbase is. Its not enough to dislike a game, but the minority also want to force everyone else to dislike the game.

There's a point when it stops being intelligent discussion and starts being blind evangelism.

You see the same thing in almost any large fandom.

 

[Kyoufu]

I don't think I realised before how disgusting the FF fanbase is. Its not enough to dislike a game, but the minority also want to force everyone else to dislike the game.

There's a point when it stops being intelligent discussion and starts being blind evangelism.

Who is forcing anyone to dislike anything?

 

[Famassu]

Yeah, I think it has around the same score as XIII. Another great game.

Different times. If FFXV had been FFXIII, pretty sure it would've gotten better average scores in 2009/2010. And FFXIII would be even lower if it was released today.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Different times. If FFXV had been FFXIII, pretty sure it would've gotten better average scores in 2009/2010. And FFXIII would be even lower if it was released today.

The PC release already has low 70s score on metacritic.

People keep forgetting that the franchise lost its good will after XIII thanks to the shitty sequels featuring Lightning. It is not like FFXV was coming hot of the heels after the critically praised XII unlike XIII.

Who is forcing anyone to dislike anything?

Are you somehow missing out the posts made by theofficefan who somehow has made it a habit to quoting my own posts where I praise FFXV. Don't you think I find it annoying whenever this happens, however I have refrained to quote his posts so far because it is just useless. He is known for this shtick for a long time now so no use giving him any mention. But he doesn't seem to understand it judging by the amount of time he has quoted me so far. It is like every time I try to say something positive about FFXV, he has to quote it and scream 'OMG LOL YOU ARE SO DELUSIONAL AND INSECURE' every time.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

You see the same thing in almost any large fandom.

Not to this degree. Its literally every XV thread. And there are close to 1000 XV threads on gaf.

 

[Ganon Dragmire]

This thread:

What a joke.

Spoiler

Like XV.

 

[Kyoufu]

Are you somehow missing out the posts made by theofficefan who somehow has made it a habit to quoting my own posts where I praise FFXV. Don't you think I find it annoying whenever this happens, however I have refrained to quote his posts so far because it is just useless. He is known for this shtick for a long time now so no use giving him any mention. But he doesn't seem to understand it judging by the amount of time he has quoted me so far. It is like every time I try to say something positive about FFXV, he has to quote it and scream 'OMG LOL YOU ARE SO DELUSIONAL AND INSECURE' every time.

One person does not make an entire fan base.

Someone expressed their opinion in the first post of this thread and others disagreed with him, which they're allowed to do because you know, it's a message board.

Jackstin calling an entire fan base "disgusting" because people have different opinions is extremely laughable.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Different times. If FFXV had been FFXIII, pretty sure it would've gotten better average scores in 2009/2010. And FFXIII would be even lower if it was released today.

Argueable to say at least. XV score can also be attributed to the current popularity of open world RPG's.

 

[True Fire]

You see the same thing in almost any large fandom.

That doesn't make it OK though lol. Ultimately games are supposed to be fun, and many gamers forget that basic fact.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

One person does not make an entire fan base.

Someone expressed their opinion in the first post of this thread and others disagreed with him, which they're allowed to do because you know, it's a message board.

Jackstin calling an entire fan base "disgusting" because people have different opinions is extremely laughable.

There are others too unless you want me to list names. Just head over to any FFXV thread and you will find them. The recent thread about XII and XV was another example where people were outright mocking others for liking FFXV and no, it was not the same user FYI.

FF fanbase is poisonous. They won't agree to a single game being the best and all have their own favorites. Every game is bashed to hell and beyond. Then those who love these games come to their defense and start to pick the favorite of others. It is just an endless cycle at this point.

I recently got into Yakuza and I think its fanbase is great. You aren't shamed for liking any weak entries in the series atleast, unlike what happens with a FF thread. God forbid someone mentions anyone asking for a FF game to play XIII, they will be roasted.