PepsimanVsJoe
Member
120 gigs and no BC?
That's just plain weird IMO.
That's just plain weird IMO.
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IGN: Multiple Gamestop-Related Sources Claim "Death of 80GB PS3 - 120GB Incoming"
- Thread starter Pai Pai Master
- Start date
squatingyeti
non-sanctioned troll
Link said:
Costs more on the laser side. It's a fire sale. Nothing that isn't necessary must go. The price must fall.
Hcoregamer00 said:
Sony is a hardware engineering company, and Engineers know that the best way to cut cost is to re-engineer the design and cut out as little as possible.
As some teardowns have shown, the heat dissipation system is overengineered. That's a significant part of the cost.
Smaller gate sizes on chips will help reduce power consumption and power electronics too.
They've cut out the EE, which is already good enough. But why take out the GS?
Link said:
SACD uses a copy protection known as Pit Signal Processing (PSP, lol). Its basically a physical feature that contains a digital watermark modulated in the width of pits. In order to read it, the optical pickup must contain special circuitry (assuming the disc is 'protected').
The 20/60/80GB PS3's where using a laser assembly that contained this circuitry. The 40GB PS3 uses a totally new laser assembly, and part of its redesign was to chuck out the extra circuitry. The new design uses a lot less parts overall (not just because of this), and is much cheaper to produce.
gray_fox224
Junior Member
.DoctorWho said:
Moderation Unlimited
Banned
The faster they can hit the magic price point of $299 for the standard model, the faster they can clean shop. Same goes for the 360 with the Pro. Don't really get while it's still $349. All major tech pushing systems have launched over the last couple of generations at a pricepoint of $299 (starting with the PSX in 1995). I think people still have this pricepoint etched in their heads and the masses won't budge until the consoles hit that pricepoint or lower. (see Wii for this generations success story)
Anakinsella
Banned
who didn't see this coming?
Did you think they would just randomly start selling DS3's? Of course they're gonna put spin on the DS3's by bundling them with a new SKU to attract people.
The PS3 is a disaster though, they shouldn't be having to do all these SKU changes - all this crap should have been dealt with before launch (dual shock, HOME, in-game xmb, affordable price tag, etc) - instead they just continue to play catch up while tarnishing the playstation name in the process.
Did you think they would just randomly start selling DS3's? Of course they're gonna put spin on the DS3's by bundling them with a new SKU to attract people.
The PS3 is a disaster though, they shouldn't be having to do all these SKU changes - all this crap should have been dealt with before launch (dual shock, HOME, in-game xmb, affordable price tag, etc) - instead they just continue to play catch up while tarnishing the playstation name in the process.
They've been steadily withdrawing hardware enabled PS2 emulation since the EU launch. The PS2 chipset in the PS3 was also never made available to developers like the PS1 chipset in the PS2 was. It just doesn't seem like it was Sony's intention to keep the PS2 chips in permanently.BlackGoku03 said:
SRG01 said:
Yes, there were a lot of simplifications in that regard (the CELL was previously bussed 'through' the EE/GS to some of the other components).
Beyond all the simplifications this involved, it also allowed them to dramatically shrink the physical size of the MoBo. If you look that the comparison pics, its a pretty major rework.
Anakinsella said:
What are you even talking about? Basically nothing you listed has anything to do with bring out new SKU's.
kaching said:
While I agree they always wanted to get rid of it (they've came out and said they didn't even want it in there in the first place ... this was said before the PS3 launched), citing development access really has nothing to do with it.
The 'access' devs had to the PS1 chipset in the PS2 was because the PS1 served as the I/O controller in the original design. It should also be noted that it was in fact removed in the PStwo.
frAntic_Frog
Member
Anakinsella said:
so the ps3 should have been delayed a year or more so they can resolve the immersion lawsuit/bring HOME to a nonexistent userbase/sell at an "affordable price" without even selling any consoles to drive down costs.....and bluray flounders.....
thank goodness you are not calling shots for sony lol
god there are some thick ppl out there ... whats the big deal here?
sony to keep the HDD at 40GB forever? the HDD will get larger and larger throughout the ps3's lifespan as thats just reflecting HDD growth ... it actually gets more expensive to keep an out of date low capacity drive in the thing as the HDD market grows capacity each half year.
and as far as multiple SKU's ... again .. whats the big deal ... to the vast majority of new ps3 buyers out there the HDD size means nothing to them, as long as there is one in there it's all the same.
the only issues are BC, and the dualshock3 .... although i'm almost certain we will see full ps2 sw emulation back before the end of the year, through a firmware update. so they can sell us all ps2 games again through PSN to play via remote play etc.
but yeh ..HDD upgrades? get fucking used to it ... and the thing is easliy upgradeable so no one is getting gipped here.
sony to keep the HDD at 40GB forever? the HDD will get larger and larger throughout the ps3's lifespan as thats just reflecting HDD growth ... it actually gets more expensive to keep an out of date low capacity drive in the thing as the HDD market grows capacity each half year.
and as far as multiple SKU's ... again .. whats the big deal ... to the vast majority of new ps3 buyers out there the HDD size means nothing to them, as long as there is one in there it's all the same.
the only issues are BC, and the dualshock3 .... although i'm almost certain we will see full ps2 sw emulation back before the end of the year, through a firmware update. so they can sell us all ps2 games again through PSN to play via remote play etc.
but yeh ..HDD upgrades? get fucking used to it ... and the thing is easliy upgradeable so no one is getting gipped here.
I don't think a Dual Shock 3 and an extra 40 GB of HDD space makes up for no backwards compatibility. The only way I don't see that doing more harm than good to hardware sales is if they announce a firmware update adding limited BC to the 40 and 120 GB models in February (even if it's very limited at first, like 360 BC at launch).
Death Dealer
Member
Moderation Unlimited said:
The funny thing is, adjusting for inflation, $400 in today's money is about $300 is 1995.
Worm_Buffet
Member
BC is gone for sure. I bet Sony stopped manufacturing the old GS-featured motherboard a while ago. What remains to be seen if it comes with a DS3 or a SIXAXIS and if they're launching a Ceramic White version or not.
I wouldn't hold it against Sony to keep including SIXAXISs as a sneaky way of generating income through selling the DS3 separately. After all, they did start manufacturing a white SIXAXIS when they launched the 40GB in Asia, which shows a reluctance to including DS3s.
I wouldn't hold it against Sony to keep including SIXAXISs as a sneaky way of generating income through selling the DS3 separately. After all, they did start manufacturing a white SIXAXIS when they launched the 40GB in Asia, which shows a reluctance to including DS3s.
Suburban Cowboy
Member
so is that much space really needed? are people running out?
peetfeet
Member
with all this talk about larger HDD's just how much room is used up on a typical 40GB SKU? Say for example i have 5 games that install on my HDD, a couple of map packs and a couple of games DL from the PSN, what would the estimated space left be on HDD?
Not having a PS3 yet I have no idea what amounts of space these things take up. I plan to get one in a couple of months or so and would be intrested to find out. 40GIG is they way I will be going as I have no intrest in BC and its the only version available (besides going on Ebay) for me as I'm in the UK. I'm just curious if I'll be needing to upgrade the HDD anytime soon after I initially buy it as I may put a few Divx movies on it to watch at my leisure.
Not having a PS3 yet I have no idea what amounts of space these things take up. I plan to get one in a couple of months or so and would be intrested to find out. 40GIG is they way I will be going as I have no intrest in BC and its the only version available (besides going on Ebay) for me as I'm in the UK. I'm just curious if I'll be needing to upgrade the HDD anytime soon after I initially buy it as I may put a few Divx movies on it to watch at my leisure.
disappeared
Banned
120GB and a Dual Shock 3 for potentially the same price as the 80GB model doesn't seem like too bad of a deal. Although I might just say to hell with it and buy the 40GB model for $100 less.
George Claw M.D.
Member
To all the people saying to drop the price, instead of increasing HDD capacity: Maybe the 120GB HDD isn't costing them any more then the 80GB, due to the regularly falling prices and increasing capacities of harddrives. In that case, Sony would be offering greater value, while retaining the same profit margin, as opposed to just flat-out dropping the price and decreasing their profit margin. If they're also throwing in the DS3, then that just adds onto the value.
disappeared
Banned
George Claw M.D. said:
That's pretty much how I'm looking at the 120GB + DS3 bundle. I'm confident Sony's going to keep the $499 pricetag while adding an extra 40GB worth of space in addition to the new DS3 controller. It's really not a bad deal. My only question is, "when is the bundle coming?"
So we will most likely see a 120GB with no BC but with DS3?
Personally I would think having the 40GB unit as the only sku worldwide would be the best move. At least Japan & Europe are thinking about that correctly.
Hopefully Sony will announce a software bc solution sooner rather than later (something I'm 110% certain they are working on). Hopefully it will be announced at GDC.
Personally I would think having the 40GB unit as the only sku worldwide would be the best move. At least Japan & Europe are thinking about that correctly.
Hopefully Sony will announce a software bc solution sooner rather than later (something I'm 110% certain they are working on). Hopefully it will be announced at GDC.
Psychotext
Member
I wonder why they wouldn't have announced that they're working on it though. They seem to announce everything else well in advance of it actually being available.Wollan said:
Wollan said:
110% certain? Someone posted a quote from a Sony exec in a previous BC thread and the guy bascially said it'll cost way too much to get complete software BC and that their resources are better spent on PS3 games/features.
It's the reason why right now I'm thinking of getting an 80GB from Amazon right now. Even if they do come out with software BC, will it upscale? And as good as the ones with hardware in them? I don't know, that 80GB is looking really good right now...
Another thing they can do is bring PS2 classics to PSN, programmed for PS3 and looking even better than the upscaled versions playing on a PS3. If they do that I'll maybe get a 40GB. Even then there's no guarantee all the games I want will be on PSN, or at least within this year. They'd also have to get 3rd party publishers involved. If they do this they need everything from Ico to MGS3 and FFXII, otherwise I'm back to considering the 80GB.
Good thing GDC is so close, this is driving me crazy. I just hope Amazon still has the 80GB in stock by then just in case.
Bojanglez
The Amiga Brotherhood
Psychotext said:
Because they want to make sure all the BC models are off the shelves, they might also want to make sure they can get significant numbers of games emulated before an announcement. I also think it is just a matter of time. They will be thinking of all the money they can make from selling PS2 games over PSN.
JzeroT1437
Member
Does this mean the price of the old models will go down?
Worm_Buffet
Member
Chrono said:
Software BC should provide even better preconditions for post-processing like upscaling etc.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Yeah. However, in a PS1 to PS3 comparison, PS1 is reaching 1997 and soon to hit $150. (Using US launch dates.)Death Dealer said:
solid2snake
Banned
DoctorWho said:
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Psychotext
Member
Didn't someone say that advert was something like a year old?jjasper said:
Wollan said:
Pretty much. The only thing I don't understand is "Why now?" It's not like people are chomping at the bit for a PS3 like this. They could just keep the 40GB as the only SKU until the holidays and put out a 120GB this fall at the same time they price drop the 40GB to $300. Then they don't even have to worry about which SKU is in stock.
Dualshock 3 could be a reason that this new SKU is probably getting released now but they could just drop the 40GB with the SIXAXIS down to $380 to clear them out and accomplish the same thing.
The only other reason I can think of is that Sony has seen figures of how the Elite is selling at retail and apparently it's doing well enough that they want something to compete with it directly.
Metalmurphy
Member
I really don't believe they're gonna drop BC on the the 120GB if it happens. I mean... why would they? If they really wanted to drop BC completely they could have done it already on the 80GB.
I think they're gonna keep having 2 SKUs, the higher one with BC and the other one without it.
I think they're gonna keep having 2 SKUs, the higher one with BC and the other one without it.
Right, they got access because the PS1 components were obviously more integral to the PS2 design, that's the whole point. It does reinforce the intended permanance of the components in such a situation.Onix said:
As long as you note that it took them much longer to do that, because of the obvious complications of ensuring that it didn't trip up PS2 software that had been designed to use the PS1 hardware.
Worm_Buffet
Member
jjasper said:
I would rather cite these reasons
* The inclusion of PS2 hardware was a last-minute addition, and software BC has always been part of the plan since it is more cost-efficient.
* They bothered writing an EE emulator for the semi-hardware BC PS3s. Why would they do that if they didn't intend for it to be used in the long run?
* They want to be able to sell PS2 games on the PSN store to all PS3 owners.
It's not like the problem was that they need to hire one guy to do it. It just got behind schedule and they were forced to remove the hardware BC, because lowering the price of the PS3 became more urgent.
I don't usually agree with Wollan on anything, but this is exactly what Sony should be doing.Wollan said:
The only thing I'd also do is take that "40GB" off the box entirely so that you can just upgrade the hard drive with a bigger size whenever you need to. Obviously that would be helpful if the price of the smaller drives goes up.
Deadly Monk said:
I'm sorry but that's a piss poor decision. Glad I got my 60gb in time and I feel bad for you late buyers that can't really afford to spend half a grand for a bc model ps3. Sony is screwing you over badly.
On the other hand smart business move by Sony to use one board in their ps3s. Saves them money and they can always just charge consumers ps2 games on psn.