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"I'm not a big fan of Xbox 1.5"-Phil Spencer

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Dec 4, 2010
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All I got out of this is that they aren't going to try to market their next machine as an upgraded xbone. It will just have "backwards compatibility" with the xbone and offer greater performance with xbone games than the original machine.
 

Sydle

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Oct 13, 2006
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I am amazed how people are somehow interpreting this that we're not getting another Xbox console within a generation. He literally said he's not a fan of the idea of a 1.5, he'd rather go for larger numbers, so that obviously means he doesn't want just a few spec upgrades, he wants a significant improvement.

As for his Polygon interview a month or so back, he said we would see them introduce new hardware capabilities within a generation, highlighting that the UWP would allow backward and forward compatibility.

All I got out of this is that they aren't going to try to market their next machine as an upgraded xbone. It will just have "backwards compatibility" with the xbone.

This is right.
 

Pops Maellard

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Apr 7, 2013
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Microosoft is now the lesser of two evils!

Hah.

I sold my PS4 a few days ago after the PS4K stuff started seeming almost definitely true. My $200, incredibly scratched Cowboom Xbox One is still silently chugging away in the corner for when I need my Halo 5 fix or my desktop is rendering video.
 

Apparition

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As for Sony, they're not releasing a PS4 Slim. The OG PS4 was engineered to come down in price across the generation through the simplicity of its design. Cerny did a fantastic job - it's already the "slim" model.

Really? So you're telling me that the current PS4 cannot benefit from a node reduction from the current 28nm to 14nm (the alleged fabrication process for the rumored PS4.5)? Sony would be stupid not to jump at the opportunity to reduce costs and improve design (less heat and noise).
 

Andodalf

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Really? So you're telling me that the current PS4 cannot benefit from a node reduction from the current 28nm to 14nm (the alleged fabrication process for the rumored PS4.5)? Sony would be stupid not to jump at the opportunity to reduce costs and improve design (less heat and noise).

Jumping to new nodes is more expensive until they become more developed.
 

Daft Punk

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You are right. It's like Sony and Microsoft reversed directions all of a sudden. Microsoft has become pro-gamer and Sony has become pro-business. Looks like Sony's success went to their head. They already have a system that is doing great why get greedy and not wait a few years before offering a new console. Makes no sense given how well the PS4 is doing. I fear Sony is going to bungle their lead.

Anyway, if this is the case, 3rd parties aren't really going to take extra advantage of the additional horsepower. Games will be designed for the lowest spec. We might just see upgrades in framerate and resolution but why not just get a PC if you are that much of a graphics whore? Since the PS4 has very little exclusives and Microsoft is not going in the same direction, it sort of makes the PS4.5 pretty pointless.

My eyes have rolled out of my head.
 

cgcg

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Feb 24, 2007
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Of course, why a xbone 1.5 when we already have Xbox One Infinity Cloud Powah?
 

gafneo

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Phil knows if Xbox1 can't compete with 4.5, a PC running Windows 10 will be enough to blow you away if you want the custom power.
 

etta

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Mar 24, 2015
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Hah.

I sold my PS4 a few days ago after the PS4K stuff started seeming almost definitely true. My $200, incredibly scratched Cowboom Xbox One is still silently chugging away in the corner for when I need my Halo 5 fix or my desktop is rendering video.
But...but...Uncharted 4 is just around the corner...
 

Bgamer90

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Mar 20, 2007
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All I got out of this is that they aren't going to try to market their next machine as an upgraded xbone. It will just have "backwards compatibility" with the xbone and offer greater performance with xbone games than the original machine.

Yeah, this is what I'm thinking too.
 

ZehDon

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Jun 13, 2013
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Really? So you're telling me that the current PS4 cannot benefit from a node reduction from the current 28nm to 14nm (the alleged fabrication process for the rumored PS4.5)? Sony would be stupid not to jump at the opportunity to reduce costs and improve design (less heat and noise).
Er... you answered your own question, and ignored the post you quoted. The PS4 can benefit from the reduction - it's called the PS4K. Mark Cerny designed the original PS4 hardware around dropping manufacturing cost organically across the generation to ensure healthy hardware profits. This was a big reason for the GDD5 RAM - it's only getting cheaper. The PS4 Slim has literally no reason to exist, and Sony have zero motivation to produce it. Due to the obtuse RAM configuration and APU design of the Xbone, Microsoft have a very real motivation to re-design. You're not looking at this from a business point of view. Just because Sony can improve the PS4 design, doesn't mean its cost effective to do so, other wise we'd already be seeing yearly hardware revisions.
 
Feb 27, 2014
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Yeah, this is what I'm thinking too.

That comes off much worse though since it's going to come across to the general consumer as a whole new gen hardly as the last one got started. Honestly, I think if they're going to do this then marketing them as a .5 step is the best way to avoid backlash.
 

farisr

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Nov 5, 2011
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Yeah, he's not a fan of Xbox 1.5 as a number increase should be a significant generational step up and 1.5 sounds stupid (just like 4.5)

But that doesn't rule out the possibility of an upgrade console that could be called something like Xbox One S (that isn't just a slim version).

There are too many rumblings going on to think that both Sony and MS aren't going to be doing this.
 

Madness

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Jan 1, 2013
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Still wouldn't be shocked to see MS do something similar

They would have no reason to. They are focusing on PC and have several IP's for Xbox One in the works. It would make no sense for them to release an incremental console upgrade. They'd be far more successful just getting newer games like ReCore and Scalebound out, getting Xbox One ports on PC and trying to recoup sales.

A much smarter move than an Xbox One 4K would just be an Xbox One slim that is the same but maybe is lighter, slimmer, quieter and has a larger hdd for $299 or less.

And then 2-3 years from now, have the generational console upgrade that blows Xbox One away.
 

Dylan Sexbang

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Jul 11, 2014
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I see this, and that's probably the point, is that Microsoft could market it as a new console. Xbox 10. Or soemthing. Over associating it with the Xbox One. New console easier to market over an upgrade within a generation.
 
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well I feel confident i'll be able to play all my xbox one games seamless through pc or the next microsoft console that does come out, so whatever it is im down.


but im down for all the systems anyways i aint got time to hate any of them, love them and dislike them for all the good and bads.
 

ginger ninja

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3 years in and this is like one of the few sensible things I have heard from a Microsoft Rep.

Upgradable consoles is a stupid idea which is gonna make a lot of consumers angry and I honestly didn't expect Sony to come up with something like this. Still hoping they reverse course.
 

Kadin

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Aug 21, 2013
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"It performs, it’s reliable, the servers are doing well."

Yeah I don't know about that Phil. The servers take a dump every night for The Division on a daily basis and even during the afternoon it's an issue. And before people say the issue is caused by Massive and not Microsoft, I only ever see reports of these Delta/Mike errors from Xbox players here and on reddit.

And it's all too familiar as these issues are almost identical to how Destiny was in its first month or so on the very same platform.
 
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"It performs, it’s reliable, the servers are doing well."

Yeah I don't know about that Phil. The servers take a dump every night for The Division on a daily basis and even during the afternoon it's an issue. And before people say the issue is caused by Massive and not Microsoft, I only ever see reports of these Delta/Mike errors from Xbox players here and on reddit.

And it's all too familiar as these issues are almost identical to how Destiny was in its first month or so on the very same platform.

yeah, that quote made me kinda cringe as well.

i mostly just play halo 5 team arena, and there's constant little issues, and the occasional outage - not so bad, but definitely not perfect [and kinda annoying].
 

Bgamer90

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That comes off much worse though since it's going to come across to the general consumer as a whole new gen hardly as the last one got started. Honestly, I think if they're going to do this then marketing them as a .5 step is the best way to avoid backlash.

They are going to get some backlash either way though (look at the PS4K reactions).

Might as well get backlash via a "new gen" console launch as long as the console is 100% backwards compatible. The main spotlight/attention would be on the PS4K due to the PS4's lead.

If anger/confusion from the PS4K can lead into people wanting to choose "an ACTUAL" new console then It may be a good decision.

Again, just me stating "what ifs" (in reply to other "what ifs") -- very interested in seeing how all of this will play out.
 

CertifiedFP

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Mar 25, 2013
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BTW, has anyone also considered something else here?

Xbox 1.5 was a Sony/Crazy Ken pejorative for the 360.

So yeah, of course Phil isn't going to be a big fan of "Xbox 1.5"
 

Duxxy3

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It would make for an interesting market that's for sure.

One console doing a mid-cycle upgrade and the other just staying put.

Would developers make games for the PS4K and then port down? Or port up from the XB1/PS4?

Would it even be worth it for companies to port up? First/Second parties would obviously take advantage.

Would consumers see Microsoft as calling it quits, or staying loyal to early buyers?


I don't know where I would side on all of this. I think that the PS4 and XB1 are very weak systems, but I also think that this generation is severely lacking in quality games compared to last generation. I don't think a shortened generation would help that last part.
 

tiredheadcrab

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Jun 1, 2014
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Umm I think most people are ignoring what he actually said.

He said they are going to do it but its not a 1.5 system. There will be significant performance gains for the console. If its this year they might take a hit on hardware and just offer a more powerful box. They really need to redesign their APU as GDDR3 and ESRAM arent really that great right now in the system.
 
Nov 4, 2011
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Umm I think most people are ignoring what he actually said.

He said they are going to do it but its not a 1.5 system. There will be significant performance gains for the console. If its this year they might take a hit on hardware and just offer a more powerful box. They really need to redesign their APU as GDDR3 and ESRAM arent really that great right now in the system.

Not GDDR3, just DDR3
 

RootCause

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Feb 6, 2015
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Phil trolling Sony. Watch them come out with a true successor that's twice as powerful than whatever Sony is planning. D:
 

GillianSeed79

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Jan 8, 2009
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So Phil is Reagan, the Xbox 1.5 is the Star Wars missile defense program and Sony is the Soviets? Trick them into over spending in the arms race and watch them collapse? Pretty brilliant.
I kid I kid
 

RibMan

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Aug 29, 2011
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Sounds like MS should throw in the towel and just do software

If they don't see their hardware situation improve then they should absolutely consider every option that can keep Xbox alive and thriving. They need to avoid repeating the mistake of Zune, i.e. Moving to a software-only model after the brand had lost all value.
 

Imperfected

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Jul 17, 2013
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I'm interested in how differently everyone else is reading this than me.

I suppose it's the computer scientist in me, but that initial "If" statement doesn't strike me as being something to ignore considering how careful Phil is with his messaging, here.
 

etta

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Mar 24, 2015
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I'm interested in how differently everyone else is reading this than me.

I suppose it's the computer scientist in me, but that initial "If" statement doesn't strike me as being something to ignore considering how careful Phil is with his messaging, here.
If he instead were to say "When", then sales of the curent SKU would flatline until the E3 or whenever they announce the next console.
 

Apparition

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Jumping to new nodes is more expensive until they become more developed.

Granted. Jumping on an immature fabrication process would be costly given the potential for bad yields. The FinFET process has been struggling for a long time but it's finally becoming stable with enough good yields. We may or may not see a slim PS4 this year depending on the capacities but it will eventually arrive (if Sony decided to keep making it).

Er... you answered your own question, and ignored the post you quoted. The PS4 can benefit from the reduction - it's called the PS4K. Mark Cerny designed the original PS4 hardware around dropping manufacturing cost organically across the generation to ensure healthy hardware profits. This was a big reason for the GDD5 RAM - it's only getting cheaper. The PS4 Slim has literally no reason to exist, and Sony have zero motivation to produce it. Due to the obtuse RAM configuration and APU design of the Xbone, Microsoft have a very real motivation to re-design. You're not looking at this from a business point of view. Just because Sony can improve the PS4 design, doesn't mean its cost effective to do so, other wise we'd already be seeing yearly hardware revisions.

Okay, it seems to me you are riding on the idea that Sony would stop manufacturing the PS4 altogether. That might be a possibility but the other would be to have two SKUs available simultaneously (especially if they ended up choosing the more powerful CPU and thus raising the price of the new console to the rumored $499). In that case, a redesigned PS4 would be beneficial. RAM doesn't automatically get cheaper on its own (sometimes it goes up in price). Using a smaller node would help reduce the cost since you can print more on the same surface area and thus would need fewer modules to begin with. The supply chain would also benefit greatly from fewer variations (and more shared parts) between the two SKUs.

Sony had already announced a slightly modified design for the PS4 in June 2015 (CUH-1200) that's lighter and more power efficient, and has a mechanical eject buttons. It also featured a smaller board despite still being 28nm which suggests an improved design and a better manufacturing process. You can see a list of difference here. So if Sony has done it already, why won't they do it again if they are going to keep the SKU alive?
 

Livingskeletons

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Nov 14, 2013
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Microosoft is now the lesser of two evils!

I knew Sony would get arrogant. Combined that with the Backwards Compatibility, my Xbox One purchase is paying off swimmingly,

 

LiquidSolid

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All I got out of this is that they aren't going to try to market their next machine as an upgraded xbone. It will just have "backwards compatibility" with the xbone and offer greater performance with xbone games than the original machine.

That's my reading of it too. He's just talking about a difference in branding, not throwing the entire idea out the window.
 

cskippy

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Oct 18, 2012
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Here's an idea.

Instead of developing some custom architecture, ask the developers what challenges they had with the previous generation's hardware and implement those changes with known and proven components.

Instead of spending millions on R&D, use that money to put significantly better hardware in than the competitors and sell at a loss. You'll make it back with volume sales and consumers choosing your console over the competition.

PS. Save cost on the physical design of the console. If it performs significantly better than the competition for the same, or less, I wouldn't care if it's a pink box.
 

Imperfected

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If he instead were to say "When", then sales of the curent SKU would flatline until the E3 or whenever they announce the next console.

Not what I meant.

"If" in this case as very explicitly means "If we make another console."

Everyone seems to be ignoring that conditional as a given, but considering their recent initiatives and the general state of the market, I'm not sure it's in there just for the sake of having needlessly non-declarative language.
 

GameAddict411

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I agree with him, but I find it surprising considering what he said about unifying the Windows 10 platform including XO.
 
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